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A question for those with kids already in a HA (non-Ivy) school: Since the NLI isn't signed until November, did your son take a conservative approach and apply to schools in addition to his verbal commit school to make sure he has college options if he can't get past the Admissions Dept. at his commit school (or after NLI his spring grades don't cut it)? I understand that if the unthinkable happens, you look for another baseball opportunity, but just wondering if anyone applied to additional schools without baseball considerations to make sure he's enrolled somewhere after HS. My spouse is making me as this question!  

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Passing the pre-read should help.  However, I'm not sure when/how they sync up the pre-read with the actual application months/years later.  I would like others thoughts on that, maybe alert the coach when the application goes in?

Also, majority of recruited athletes are asked to apply ED.  So if something went wrong, you'd have plenty of time to apply to others RD and maybe reach out to other baseball programs.

The main risk is senioritis and poor grades senior year.  Kids are asked to submit their first quarter grades, so it's critical they get off to a good start.  That's where we gotta crack the whip to make sure they boys don't blow it.

My two cents....So, I think this is one of those situations where it depends on many things including the school, the major and your comfort level.  Agree with CTBBallDad that your son would have time to apply RD but that is not optimal as it may not include baseball.   Whether or not it is an NLI or ED is all the same in my mind except that you would know sooner if the NLI isn't executed which would actually be a better situation than a declined ED application which is later in the process.   My son did not burn any bridges and kept in touch with handful of HA schools/coaches (another Ivy, Patriot, D3) that told him if it didn't work out they would help with RD and baseball.  Whether or not this would have happened I don't know but among those 3 schools I'm sure he would have got into one of them and been happy.   The other thing we were dealing with was his major...engineering.   This was a very limiting factor in our recruiting experience, so the target schools were very few.  I was not worried about senioritis or a decline in grades as my son liked learning and school. 

So, it used to be the NLI had nothing to with Admissions if you read the documents.  I don't know about that today.   I suspect it is the same, and NLIs are signed (or not signed) in November which would give you a heads up to pursue another school on your short list.  So, typical ED admission notification is early to mid-Dec which gives you plenty of time to pursue RD alternatives.   I was comfortable with that and my son was as well so he only applied to one school ED.  You may feel differently.

As always, JMO and experience.  Good luck!

A couple of points.

If this is simply a "belt and suspenders" approach without real evidence of academic performance issues, that is one matter. OTOH, if there is a real concern about senior year grades that is another matter.

Senioritis can be real; that eye rolling which can be controlled gets less controllable when the kid towers over his parents (reminds me of NATGEO films of the young penguin demanding food from his parents - but the young bird is the same size as the parents). But all college acceptances- athlete and nonathlete - require that the kid keep up his grades and character. But senioritis passes (whew) with no permanent mark.

If the fear is based upon e.g., marginal study habits, that is a big deal - not for the last year of HS, but for college success. A kid without a solid base of study habits will have difficulty in college (I know, I almost flunked out fr year). Even with a slimmed down major - as most college athletes wind up in - the speed of each course will bury a kid - and fast. Other learning issues - if not addressed by senior year- should be explored (e.g., learning disability); tutors (who teach rather then do the kid's work) are an option to keep a kid on track.

But the key here is: what is the rational expectation of your kid's college academic performance? Poor study habits are fatal - study hall or no study hall: academic support or no academic support.

Also, what does the coach say? Even the Ivy's have reduced grade/score requirements for athletes when compared to the mean admitted student, and as you get away from the Ivy's that difference can grow. The further the kid is from the incoming class mean, the harder it will be to succeed.

A long time coach should have a handle on admissions; ask the coach point blank.  I have known kids who were retaking ACTs until senior year ended to get the required scores. 

As for applying to backup schools: what happens to baseball? Is he willing to give up baseball? And,  if he's willing to give up baseball, what is his real committment to an activity which will consume as much as a full time job consumes in college?

So, are your wife's fears real or belt and suspenders? (Recognize that as you lose baseball leverage, you also move "down" from any HA.)

 For our family, son applied to one school and we held our breath until the likely letter. Daughter applied to 10 - she wasnt an athlete. 

 

 

Last edited by Goosegg

Son went to a non-ivy, HA, D1, mid-major (are they still using that term?)

The coach had son send in copies of his transcripts before the offer (summer between sophomore and junior year), after he took the SATs, and again his senior year for a pre-read.  He was a good student, but not a straight A type.

He was required to apply ED.  I am thinking the coach probably sent a list of his commits to admissions.  (BTW, the requirements for ED are that you don't apply to other schools).

****Not-so-long-ago when you filled out paper applications, the athletes at my other son's school (ACC) had a different color application so admissions could visually slide athletes through the admissions process ****

Saved a ton on the application fees, since others were sending in 8-12 applications. 

Gotcha. Unfortunately our common profession makes us always imagine - and prepare - for all, even remote, possibilities.

I would  bring your son into the conversation. This is an opportunity to get him to focus on an issue which will raise its ugly head in college: how to focus on the task at hand when everyone around you is partying, drinking, heading to the beach, etc.  He has worked so hard to get here, don't relax in the last 100 yards of the marathon - he needs to buy into what you are properly selling. 

So, enter into a "contract" (oral). Lay out your expectations, his duties, rights and privileges and the consequences of failure (e.g., minimum wage job for a year until he can apply to college). Sometimes looking into the abyss is better than a potential soft landing (at worst a year is lost). (With our kids, so long as grades and character issues were satisfied, they could have lots of leash.)

Now, we did that with both kids. But we're not total idiots; we also took a "trust but verify" approach and closely monitored academics through our school's EDLINE program (all homework, projects, tests, etc., were posted on-line). This was an early warning indicator. Additionally, i would suggest establishing relationships with his teachers with explicit instructions to call ASAP should he start fatally slacking off.

Also, ask him frequently to tell you what's happening in his classes. You'll get the eyeroll and one word grunt answers - but you're specially trained in knifing through the BS to get the true story.

Senior HS year is interesting. But i can say this: next year September you'll wish he was back (our first's room was a shrine of memories for a year - neither of us could walk by without huge emotions; we turned our second's into a cave the week she left).

 

 

I don't think this question just applies to HA schools.  I was discussing this with a dad the other day as to whether his son needed to apply to others just in case the NLI was not what was discussed or if the NLI did not come at all.  He is one of those worried that the P5 his son has committed to has overrecruited.  Do/did you/your son apply at multiple schools just to be safe?

PitchingFan posted:

I don't think this question just applies to HA schools.  I was discussing this with a dad the other day as to whether his son needed to apply to others just in case the NLI was not what was discussed or if the NLI did not come at all.  He is one of those worried that the P5 his son has committed to has overrecruited.  Do/did you/your son apply at multiple schools just to be safe?

Especially if you're recruited as a rising junior or earlier...that's a lot of time to go by.  Do kids keep in contact with a coach during that time, to stay top of mind? 

I'm still unclear what happens over the next few months until the application goes in.  Coach for my son said he'd text at the end of August.  Will he be invited to a fall practice, stay over with the team, etc?

IDK about the other kid I asked about but my son has stayed in touch with UT coaches throughout the past year.  They have watched him play several times this summer and we went to a spring practice just to watch and see the every day grind of college baseball.  Wanted him to see it without all the glory of the crowds. 

Son was verbally committed to a HA D3 not ED. Coach thought he had the grades and test scores to get in but we still had our son apply to several other schools just for the academics. He is an engineering major so it limits your choices if baseball is a must have. It was not in my sons case but he would have liked to play if it made sense. He did not get through admissions at the school he verbaled at but did get into a few very good schools one of which he is currently enrolled at.

standballdad posted:

Son was verbally committed to a HA D3 not ED. Coach thought he had the grades and test scores to get in but we still had our son apply to several other schools just for the academics. He is an engineering major so it limits your choices if baseball is a must have. It was not in my sons case but he would have liked to play if it made sense. He did not get through admissions at the school he verbaled at but did get into a few very good schools one of which he is currently enrolled at.

That sounds like an inexperienced coach, or worse.  We didn't receive an offer from a school, until after the pre-read was done (sent transcript, SAT, Senior Schedule, School Profile).  I'm not sure why that wouldn't be done at every school.

I would suggest, the player/parent, request this process, before they close the door on any other school.  I'm glad it worked out for you, but it must have been tough to verbally commit, then months later told no.  My assumption (hope I'm not wrong) is once you pass the pre-read, the official acceptance is just a matter of process and time (aside from the over-recruitment issue).

 

CTbballDad posted:
standballdad posted:

Son was verbally committed to a HA D3 not ED. Coach thought he had the grades and test scores to get in but we still had our son apply to several other schools just for the academics. He is an engineering major so it limits your choices if baseball is a must have. It was not in my sons case but he would have liked to play if it made sense. He did not get through admissions at the school he verbaled at but did get into a few very good schools one of which he is currently enrolled at.

That sounds like an inexperienced coach, or worse.  We didn't receive an offer from a school, until after the pre-read was done (sent transcript, SAT, Senior Schedule, School Profile).  I'm not sure why that wouldn't be done at every school.

I would suggest, the player/parent, request this process, before they close the door on any other school.  I'm glad it worked out for you, but it must have been tough to verbally commit, then months later told no.  My assumption (hope I'm not wrong) is once you pass the pre-read, the official acceptance is just a matter of process and time (aside from the over-recruitment issue).

 

The coach was new and was the previous head coach at an Ivy school. He told us during our visit that he was still trying to figure out the admissions process. Don't know if a pre-read was done or just the coaches opinion that he should get through admissions. Sons GPA was well above 4.0 (full of AP courses) and his SAT was around 2100 and an ACT of 33. So son was disappointed to say the least, but like I said he is happy at where he ended up.    

Oldest son just graduated from a high academic d3, (football).  He applied early decision, with no plan b, other than he'd be scrambling to go regular decision.  The coach had been there over 25 years, was well versed in the admissions criteria, and seemed to have more influence with admissions than others claimed to, so although we were nervous with the lack of plan B, we dealt with it, especially with going the early decision route.

 

 

CTbballDad posted:
PitchingFan posted:

I don't think this question just applies to HA schools.  I was discussing this with a dad the other day as to whether his son needed to apply to others just in case the NLI was not what was discussed or if the NLI did not come at all.  He is one of those worried that the P5 his son has committed to has overrecruited.  Do/did you/your son apply at multiple schools just to be safe?

Especially if you're recruited as a rising junior or earlier...that's a lot of time to go by.  Do kids keep in contact with a coach during that time, to stay top of mind? 

I'm still unclear what happens over the next few months until the application goes in.  Coach for my son said he'd text at the end of August.  Will he be invited to a fall practice, stay over with the team, etc?

I know many people that have stayed in touch with coaches and coaches that have stayed in touch with recruits that had committed elsewhere only to wind up somewhere else.   You stick around here long enough and you'll see just about everything.   One of my favorite people on HSBBWeb had a son committed to School A, but kept in touch with the pitching coach at School B (texts every couple of months) to check in on him, and the Pitching Coach at School B just liked the kid.   Fast forward 6 months later and the School A commitment falls through (long story).   The pitching coach at School B steps in and helps the young man get reset with some other schools and provides some suggestions/recommendations....then out of the blue he offers him a roster spot on School B with needed sponsorship with Admissions.   It was a ridiculous series of events, twists and turns but the moral of the story is stay in touch with people at every turn.   It can save your bacon.

Yes, you'll want to provide the recruiting coach major updates and absolutely follow up with their invitiation to bring him in watch a practice, stay over with the team.   If your son is so inclined he may be able to shadow one of the players for a few hours to get a feel for the academic atmosphere and you can make an appointment with the Financial Aid office to make some new friends...it never hurts.

Good luck!

fenwaysouth posted:

I know many people that have stayed in touch with coaches and coaches that have stayed in touch with recruits that had committed elsewhere only to wind up somewhere else.   You stick around here long enough and you'll see just about everything.   One of my favorite people on HSBBWeb had a son committed to School A, but kept in touch with the pitching coach at School B (texts every couple of months) to check in on him, and the Pitching Coach at School B just liked the kid.   Fast forward 6 months later and the School A commitment falls through (long story).   The pitching coach at School B steps in and helps the young man get reset with some other schools and provides some suggestions/recommendations....then out of the blue he offers him a roster spot on School B with needed sponsorship with Admissions.   It was a ridiculous series of events, twists and turns but the moral of the story is stay in touch with people at every turn.   It can save your bacon.

Yes, you'll want to provide the recruiting coach major updates and absolutely follow up with their invitiation to bring him in watch a practice, stay over with the team.   If your son is so inclined he may be able to shadow one of the players for a few hours to get a feel for the academic atmosphere and you can make an appointment with the Financial Aid office to make some new friends...it never hurts.

Good luck!

“It ain’t over, till it’s over.”  - YB

No one knows the HA baseball admissions gauntlet better than FenwaySouth.  He’s either experienced it thru his own sons, or he’s talked many parents down off many a ledge who were going thru new and different nightmare scenarios themselves, and he being a great friend seemingly lived it too as he gets u through it.    So his background, knowledge, and the experiences he shares (always in confidence but with just enough ambiguity to shield the innocent but simultaneously help the clueless) in the HA arena always should be taken w the utmost regard.  

Keep as many doors open for as long as possible.   You just never know.   

When your son notifies the other 5 coaches that he was talking to, that he’s committed elsewhere but he wanted to call them and  thank them all for their time in his recruiting process?    One of those five coaches will say something like this,  “Congratulations!  I’m really happy for you. Let me know if anything changes. “  THIS IS DEFINITELY A Coach you want to keep on your Christmas card list. He will be the one who will offer you safe harbor, should something catastrophic go wrong in the fall admissions process.  And yes, it does happen.    

Last edited by #1 Assistant Coach

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