I agree totally BlueDog about the load and unload being a continuous motion that can't be stopped and started....Common sense tells you that. Many hitting instructors teach the development of a methodical movement in hands and arms in order to initiate load and also teach a continuous flow and motion in the unloading process. BlueDog, you are right. Just had a long conversation with Major League scouts at FL State League game who discussed this very issue and also agree with BlueDog. Another advanced scout also agreed. These guys are 25+ experience in years for each professional scout who all agreed with BlueDog.
Anytime a disagreement comes up here in these threads, if worthy of establishment's attention, I have decided to take issue to scouting circles at the ballparks for discussion and I can report back here the consensus of the establishment...Agreed everybody???? Seriously.
The results of the issues of controversy in this thread were pro-BlueDog as far as the scouts tonight during our discussion which included the swing being a continuous motion in load and unload with NO stopping and starting and discussion about contact and follow through. Maximum batspeed should be reached at contact and not after contact in follow-through. BlueDog is absolutely correct in a majority consensus of advanced Major League Scouts 4-29-2006 Discussion took place from 6:45 until 9:45 PM EST between myself and other advanced scouts. Bluedog's right, period.
Regarding "Hitting Through The Ball", I don't think anyone would disagree with the idea that maximum bat speed must be achieved on contact! After contact, again I believe that everyone would agree that, gee , the ball is gone...so what does hitting through a ball acomplish if the ball is gone? The concept is a mental exercise that attempts to instill a muscle memory in the hitter that results in the batter not rolling over the wrists prematurely. It is a concept, a mental tool. Premature wrist roll will cause a hitter to slightly roll the bat higher through the hitting zone resulting in contact on the top side of the ball resulting in grounders. "Hitting Through THe Ball" will cause the batter to maintain his proper hand, therefore bat, position when bat contact is made. Bat speed must be there, and once contact has been made, yes, the ball is gone. No one expects that you are continuiously making contact with the ball as you are "hitting through" it...we all know that the ball has left the bat!
FLFan,
How's everything going ? You have a brand-new PM sir and hope E. is doing well. peace, Shep
How's everything going ? You have a brand-new PM sir and hope E. is doing well. peace, Shep
Shep, this is for you....
Teaching by correcting (instant feedback) and doing repetitions until muscle memory is built doesn't work well......Muscle memory and mental teaching is really misunderstood by coaches......
Understanding this stuff and teaching it are two different things altogether.....Just something for you to think about....
Teaching by correcting (instant feedback) and doing repetitions until muscle memory is built doesn't work well......Muscle memory and mental teaching is really misunderstood by coaches......
Understanding this stuff and teaching it are two different things altogether.....Just something for you to think about....
BlueDog said>
I say muscle memory after corrections and adjustments are made does work. Sometimes this is the only hope for a hitting prospect who has just switched from metal to wood because he has developed so many bad habits in swing components with that huge forgiving sweetspot on that treasured piece of metal
peace, Shep
quote:and doing repetitions until muscle memory is built doesn't work well......
I say muscle memory after corrections and adjustments are made does work. Sometimes this is the only hope for a hitting prospect who has just switched from metal to wood because he has developed so many bad habits in swing components with that huge forgiving sweetspot on that treasured piece of metal
peace, Shep
Blue dog:
“Cusp is the instant reversal of the direction of the bat.....Put simply...”
Is hand strength important during this action?
“Cusp is the instant reversal of the direction of the bat.....Put simply...”
Is hand strength important during this action?
Shep, you changed what I said and gave it a whole new meaning..... 
What you said is true....So is what I said....Only thing is, they're two diferent thoughts.......
I posted it to you so you could research it....I did and found it to be extremely interesting......
What you said is true....So is what I said....Only thing is, they're two diferent thoughts.......
I posted it to you so you could research it....I did and found it to be extremely interesting......
PG
I probably laughed louder and harder than you--in fact I know I did
Now I have to ask you, and you know me, what the heck is a NATURAL WONDER?
"I is what I is. Nothing more nothing less". Trust me you get what you see.
I probably laughed louder and harder than you--in fact I know I did
Now I have to ask you, and you know me, what the heck is a NATURAL WONDER?
"I is what I is. Nothing more nothing less". Trust me you get what you see.
quote:To elaborate, perhaps this will do some good for someone.....
In swinging a bat, the body's load/unload process should be a continuous dynamic process of muscle activation.....
The body loads by stretching muscles in a certain direction, then unloads by stretching those muscles in a different direction....It's an eccentric, concentric process.....The reversal action of the muscles during the load/unload phase needs to be instantaneous in order to be efficient....IOW, you don't load, wait, then unload....
Thanks for explaining. During his games yesterday my son used his "early step" drill in every at bat and smoked the ball 3 or 4 times. To recap, he takes a small, soft stride during the pitchers motion (much earlier than usual) and at the same time makes a small inward turn to get his hands back and keep his weight from moving forward. Though it worked yesterday, given Bluedog's comments perhaps this method would not produce good results in the long term (though that was not my plan anyway). Our intent with using this early step was simply to reduce the number of things he has to do to start the swing, hopefully making him quicker overall.
I discussed this with my son last night after his tournament games and talked about his comfort with starting with a wider stance (the width it would be after striding from his normal stance) ala Pujols, Edmonds. Pujols and Edmonds take a small inward turn and roll up onto their front toes then just slam the heel. Bluedog (and others) do you think this is a good approach to teach my son?
Thanks.
Jon
Willj, not a good idea to reduce the things the body needs to do to move efficiently in the swing process.....A better way of thinking is to teach the proper body movements and learn how to adapt to them..... 
I will post about your idea of the stance later....
I will post about your idea of the stance later....
quote:Originally posted by TRhit:
He has to realize that others may know as much or more than he does--that is the Dogs problem
If there are any, you sure aren't on the list.
quote:Originally posted by THop:
Blue dog:
“Cusp is the instant reversal of the direction of the bat.....Put simply...”
Is hand strength important during this action?
No. Quality rotation and a knowing what to do with the arms is where your answer lies.
quote:Originally posted by TRhit:
I am fortunate to have had a great time getting to 64 years of age and doing a lot of things I enjoyed during the travels to this point. I have been blessed with healthy children and for a guy that was not supposed to be here I thank the Almighty for everything that I have had and hopefully will continue to have for many years to come..
Give him a hand.
Now, lets talk hitting.
INFOPIMP
Thanx for the vote of confidence--looking at your ID I see you have a problem in my eyes--I dont take your ID seriously--"pimp"?
Where I come from that does not say much for you. You sell information--what does that mean--is the info valid
I dont need a hand or wnat one--- What I want is for those lurking and reading/posting and reading to realize that the internet word is b not gospel--just because someone posts information is that information correct?--check out who is dispensing the info and make sure what you get is valid !!!
Info--see you on the rebound
Thanx for the vote of confidence--looking at your ID I see you have a problem in my eyes--I dont take your ID seriously--"pimp"?
Where I come from that does not say much for you. You sell information--what does that mean--is the info valid
I dont need a hand or wnat one--- What I want is for those lurking and reading/posting and reading to realize that the internet word is b not gospel--just because someone posts information is that information correct?--check out who is dispensing the info and make sure what you get is valid !!!
Info--see you on the rebound
quote:Shep, you changed what I said and gave it a whole new meaning.....
I will research statement BlueDog if I can ever stop laughing at what I did...because I did kinda turn it around...
Sorry about that BD, peace, Shep
I would be like TR. I hadn't thought of moving up in the box though.
I would work with the kid to hit fly balls. When he can hit them consistently (say 70% of the time), then we would hit line drives. If he kept hitting up, then we would hit ground balls a few times and then hit it farther up the ball to make line drives. Make it a game to hit line drives.
Of course this kid also did not say what he is swinging at (fastballs, changeups, curves, everything). If he is really challenged, how about bunting and playing pepper (Ted Williams remedy for hitting better)? How about this - when was the last time you went to the eye doctor?
Also how much hitting practice do you get? My son has straighten things out before by extra work at the batting cages - about 120 - 150 pitches in the 80mph cage.
Tim Robertson
I would work with the kid to hit fly balls. When he can hit them consistently (say 70% of the time), then we would hit line drives. If he kept hitting up, then we would hit ground balls a few times and then hit it farther up the ball to make line drives. Make it a game to hit line drives.
Of course this kid also did not say what he is swinging at (fastballs, changeups, curves, everything). If he is really challenged, how about bunting and playing pepper (Ted Williams remedy for hitting better)? How about this - when was the last time you went to the eye doctor?
Also how much hitting practice do you get? My son has straighten things out before by extra work at the batting cages - about 120 - 150 pitches in the 80mph cage.
Tim Robertson
Perhaps posture and swing plane need some adjusting to create more consistent lift.
Willj, a hitter needs some forward weight shift during the stride.....A hitter should not keep their weight on the back side........You really need to do some research on this....You are taking your son in the wrong direction....Believe me, there is more going on in Pujols and Edmonds' swing than just rolling up on the front foot......
Infopimp is very knowledgeable and maybe you can get him to steer you in the right direction....I hope so, because I like listening to him.....And, I'm really glad he has shown up....
Infopimp is very knowledgeable and maybe you can get him to steer you in the right direction....I hope so, because I like listening to him.....And, I'm really glad he has shown up....
Today I brought up discussion with same scouts about developing methodical movement with hands and arms before pitch recognition and cocking of hands(trigger) and guess what? You guessed it, majority consensus of baseball establishment was the same.>> >>Hitter needs to develop methodical movement and not hit from dead stationary stance.<< << peace, Shep
You guys are simply talking about rhythm and every scout in baseball knows it when they see it. What's the need in asking the "establishment"? I thought the baseball "establishment" was a problem in your thinking or is that only when they disagree?
Sorry, couldn't help myself.
Sorry, couldn't help myself.
