My 16U son likes to crowd the plate. He’s a power hitter who walks and gets HBP a lot. Especially in summer showcase ball do you think he’s losing chances to show power by being overly patient with his crowd the plate approach. About 30 PA with 18 AB with 8 walks, 4 HBP, 1 HR, 1 triple, singles. High OBP trend but is he sacrificing hits? He just says it’s my plate. He just gets a lot away, but doesn’t get those high and inside balls. Thoughts?
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If your son's goal is to play in college, yes.
I hate walks and HBP. I’d rather watch him strike out taking aggressive hacks
Question,
if you want a longer look at the ball, do stand close to the plate or off the plate?
Bob
@TerribleBPthrower posted:I hate walks and HBP. I’d rather watch him strike out taking aggressive hacks
That’s exactly what his older brother does ko, ko, ko, double, ko, ko, double. I have one with zero discipline and one with this.
My son could work the count to death and drive pitchers crazy. It was not unusual for him to be down in the count and foul off good two strike pitches until he walked. With his speed he was an ideal lead off man. Batting left he was also a good option to bat second.
The summer after soph year was his first 17u season. His coach pulled him aside. He told him he can’t work counts and walk and HBP his way to the next level.
When he filled out and got stronger junior year his high school coach told him he bats third to drive in runs, not walk and get hit by pitches.
All he was proving with his old approach was he was hard to whiff. When players get to college most of them have a certain power potential. If you’re not one of them you won’t be in the lineup. If not hitting homers hit a lot of doubles.
My son led his HS conference in HBP. On the one hand, he was a pitcher so other teams didn't like him much. On the other, he's not batting anymore.
I would not describe your son as a power hitter by the numbers that you described. In 30 PA's, with only 1 HR and 1 triple and the rest singles. That is not a power hitter. He seems to be a for average guy by the numbers. If he wants colleges to see him as a power hitter, then the number of doubles, triples, and especially homeruns has to go up. Both of my son's showcase team coaches told my son no one came to watch you walk. If you don't swing the bat, you won't get a scholarship. Colleges don't rarely give scholarships for walks. I think you have to swing the bat.
Daug;
WHY does he crowd the plate????? He is easy to pitch to.My 1st pitch is inside on the hands.
If he crowds the plate, his best bat contact is 6" in front of the plate.
If he is "off the plate" he can make contact at 3" in front of the plate. "a longer look"!!
Bob
Walks are generally a good thing but I found that many guys who crowd the plate can't even handle even the inner third of the plate. Against soft tossers this will work but if you face guys throwing high 80s with command they will have trouble.
Many kids who have success crowding the plate think they can turn on the ball in but in reality often that ball they turn on is more middle and they succeed because they make away the new middle abusing the fear of pitchers hitting them. At lower levels pitchers are uncomfortable hitting guys and thus often throw middle away into the wheelhouse of the hitter.
Now there are rare guys who can crowd and still handle in but I haven't seen many but I have seen many kids who crowd the plate and essentially can hit nothing on the inner half.
To get an honest assessment go into a machine cage and set pitches on the inside black (check from behind) at mid 80s and if he can still drive those pitches fair he can crowd the plate. But most likely he can't and will either miss the inside pitches or his them weakly or foul if he stands too close.
@Consultant posted:Daug;
WHY does he crowd the plate????? He is easy to pitch to.My 1st pitch is inside on the hands.
If he crowds the plate, his best bat contact is 6" in front of the plate.
If he is "off the plate" he can make contact at 3" in front of the plate. "a longer look"!!
Bob
I don’t know why he crowds the plate. He always has. He says it’s my plate.
@Dominik85 posted:Walks are generally a good thing but I found that many guys who crowd the plate can't even handle even the inner third of the plate. Against soft tossers this will work but if you face guys throwing high 80s with command they will have trouble.
Many kids who have success crowding the plate think they can turn on the ball in but in reality often that ball they turn on is more middle and they succeed because they make away the new middle abusing the fear of pitchers hitting them. At lower levels pitchers are uncomfortable hitting guys and thus often throw middle away into the wheelhouse of the hitter.
Now there are rare guys who can crowd and still handle in but I haven't seen many but I have seen many kids who crowd the plate and essentially can hit nothing on the inner half.
To get an honest assessment go into a machine cage and set pitches on the inside black (check from behind) at mid 80s and if he can still drive those pitches fair he n crowd the plate. But most likely he can't and will either miss the inside pitches or his them weakly or foul if he stands too close.
He definitely can handle an inside pitch. He’s complaining that he’s not getting any.
Bob Gibson when interviewed. "the inside and outside corners of the plate are MINE!
The hitter has the middle, but he will not see that pitch.
Did you see Ted Williams hitting "chart"?? It is amazing how it matches Gibson's statement.
Bob
@Consultant posted:Bob Gibson when interviewed. "the inside and outside corners of the plate are MINE!
The hitter has the middle, but he will not see that pitch.
Did you see Ted Williams hitting "chart"?? It is amazing how it matches Gibson's statement.
Bob
The pitchers he is facing aren’t that good. What’s happening is that he’s just walking and getting HBP.
The batter's box is his classroom. If he plays on my team he would a "lead off: hitter or 9th hitter [double lead off]. "This is a game of adjustments". Adjust and hit .300, do not adjust and hit .200.
Bob
If he can turn on the inside pitches, then I wouldn't worry too much about the HBPs (although he should get out of the way when possible). However, showcase and camp ABs are precious. You work all year for those few opportunities. Coaches are there to evaluate your swing; plate discipline is way down the list of importance at those events. Honestly, a college coach would rather see a K after taking some good hacks, than a guy taking 6 pitches for a BB.
I suggest that your son change his approach. If he's a power guy, and he's up on the plate, he should be able to drive outside pitches with power.
0-1 Balls - swing at strikes and outside pitches on the black
2-3 Balls - swing at outside pitches between black and opposite batters box chalk
If necessary, he may need to expand up and down, too. He has to demonstrate to recruiters that he can hit the ball hard with live pitching. Fair, foul, right at someone... doesn't matter.
Last year my son would foul off a ton and end up walking. Also gets hit a lot. This summer he’s much bigger and aggressive. I think just a couple of walks and 3 HBP. Unless he’s trying to score a runner at 3b or bunt he is trying to smoke one. Seems to be working right now.
@A Daug posted:He definitely can handle an inside pitch. He’s complaining that he’s not getting any.
He is not getting any because pitchers at that level are afraid to hit batters. College pitchers aren't.
But then again maybe he will learn that lesson later
2 more doubles today. Usually his doubles are down the line. This tournament he’s hitting them to the warning track.
@RJM posted:If the goal is to get to college ball he should be playing better competition. Coaches don’t come to scout hitters hit mediocre pitching.
This is so so valid. A good route to that endpoint is to get on a summer team with 10 or more stud pitchers.
I would disagree a little bit. If your son already has college attention, they will appreciate quality at bats and a good approach (i.e. getting a walk off of quality pitching). However, if you are still looking for a college home, being able to hit the ball hard to get on base (even hitting the ball hard for an out if they are there watching) is going to be more effective than getting on base by taking a pitch.
@PTWood posted:I would disagree a little bit. If your son already has college attention, they will appreciate quality at bats and a good approach (i.e. getting a walk off of quality pitching). However, if you are still looking for a college home, being able to hit the ball hard to get on base (even hitting the ball hard for an out if they are there watching) is going to be more effective than getting on base by taking a pitch.
I think there is something to this. Certainly watching our older son struggle with no discipline makes us respect his approach. Maybe the same approach but Not so close to the plate.
Right. A happy medium/a little adjustment. As an example, last year at WWBA, my son had a couple of hard outs at Lakepoint (EV 100+). Next game, PG Scouts and colleges started watching and he had another EV plus 100 but that one was a triple and he got written up. The pitch before the triple almost hit him and he dodged it (I remember because his teammates were yelling "we got ice.") His next game, everyone was there. It's an extreme case but he would not have gotten as many looks if he had not been swinging the bat. By nature, he has a more disciplined approach and this year he's definitely playing more within his game: looking for a ball to drive with a fair share of walks and long at bats (literally just walked as I'm typing LOL). But I think MidAtlantic nailed it...these at bats are precious and your son should be using them to showcase his tools.
Sometimes a hitter can’t avoid being walked. Especially if he’s the big hitter in the lineup and first base is open. My son hit third his junior and senior year. In those two years four times he was walked and the next kid up hit a granny. Three times it was the same team. That coach must have spent the night talking to himself.
I think you have to hit in showcase. High school is a different subject but in showcase you have to swing. My son's biggest weekend was at WWBA 4 years ago. He pitched a great game against a powerhouse and then followed it up by hitting a downright bomb with a crowd there watching. The crowd was there watching him hit because he hit a HR the game before and a triple off the wall. Both of those AB's involved an inside pitch that he would have taken for a HBP in HS but got out of the way in showcase. You have to be able to swing the bat if you are a power hitter. I think guys who hit for average can wear a pitch in showcase more often than a power hitter can.
If it is a showcase event (or camp) they typically don't award first for HBP (sometimes batter can opt). You know what I am talking about, the one's that start with the dreaded 1-1 count which favors P. In this situation (your son with HBPs) the event may say that he would see only fastballs (similar if the "batter" would walk). You do want to "showcase" your tools, as PTWood and others have commented.
If it's a true showcase game (umps not college coaches) that's another story. If your son has some speed OBP (getting to first) is a big part of the game. If he's a gap/power hitter, he should definitely take his hacks. Also, I have seen more umps call batters back in the box the last few years if batter didn't make an attempt to get out of the way.
Adaug, I know you stated twice that the only reason you get from son is because it is "his plate" but the specific reasoning and approach matters. More specific to what others are saying...
If he is a hitter who looks to pull and that is where his strength and power is, he has two choices. He can stay on top of the plate and force the pitcher to throw to his strength or he can work on becoming a more complete hitter with the ability to drive pitches both ways, depending on pitch location. We have certainly seen both approaches work, even at higher levels. A pull hitter negates the advantage of the P by staying on top, but he better be able to turn on the best of inside FB's.
If he just likes being on top for comfort or dominant "ownership" but has the ability to go the other way well, he is just creating an unnecessary hole in his approach. When the pitchers are just OK, it can create an additional advantage but as the pitching gets better, that advantage can turn.
@Ripken Fan posted:If it is a showcase event (or camp) they typically don't award first for HBP (sometimes batter can opt). You know what I am talking about, the one's that start with the dreaded 1-1 count which favors P. In this situation (your son with HBPs) the event may say that he would see only fastballs (similar if the "batter" would walk). You do want to "showcase" your tools, as PTWood and others have commented.
If it's a true showcase game (umps not college coaches) that's another story. If your son has some speed OBP (getting to first) is a big part of the game. If he's a gap/power hitter, he should definitely take his hacks. Also, I have seen more umps call batters back in the box the last few years if batter didn't make an attempt to get out of the way.
My son went to his first camp last summer as an incoming freshman. He was easily the youngest and smallest there. He was lucky enough to get his first AB against a kid who was not accurate at all. He was hit twice with curveballs and finally after being hit with a fastball on the leg the coach told him to go to first. They also gave a few kids the option of staying in there after 4 balls.
