Hey, 2021 RHP son. Curve changes often from 12 to 6 to slurve type action. At what point do you think you go to a slider? He tops out at 86, change is about 70-72 and curve is about 70-71. My thinking is ditching the curve for a harder slider might be a better mix of plane and velo paired with the change...thoughts? Part of the issue is mechanical, I know, thus the inconsistency, but I'm think a slider might be simpler and more repeatable...
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How is he going from 86 to 70 from fastball to change?
86 is tops right now, he sits 82-84 and change is probably 70-72 normally or thereabouts. Curve and change are about the same speed. His change has the potential to be really great but it's inconsistent right now location wise. Put the numbers together wrong there. Point is slider might be better pairing.
Even 82-72 is a big difference. Is he throwing a circle change? Is he throwing it with the same arm motion and speed as a fastball?
As far as slider or curve goes, I think a consistent curve ball would help him go further.
Does he telegraph his pitches? When he warms up in the bullpen does control all pitches from the same arm angle? Which direction is the wind.?
what is the distance of the fences? Does the catcher call for curves?
Bob
10 mph plus differential between FB and CU is really good. That’s exactly what you want. Ideally you want the breaking ball to look like the FB when it comes out of his hand and break late & sharp. You also want the velo of the breaking ball to be somewhere in between the FB and CU so you are actually throwing 3 different pitches at 3 different speeds. If the curve morphs into a slurve that indicates an inconsistency in the grip, the release, or both. Sometimes all it takes is a change in thinking. Tell him to throw the breaking ball same way he throws his FB - except with a different grip and release. Arm action and arm speed should be the same on all 3 pitches. Only thing that changes from pitch to pitch is the grip and the release.
In my experience, whether the ball comes out of the hand as a curveball or slider is totally dependent on arm angle. If your son throws over the top, his pitch will be a curveball. Same grip, same arm action, but throwing from a 3/4 arm angle, the pitch will be a slider. Changing arm angle is a dicey thing. I'd work with whatever arm angle your son has, perfect the consistency and work on making that curveball break as late and as much as possible. Both the slider and the curveball can be effective pitches if thrown with consistency and with the same arm angle and arm speed as the fastball.
Hope this helps.
You pick the one he can do best, or both! Neither is better than the other....it's a question of what you do best. Some lucky souls can do both. My 2022 naturally threw a slider, but had to change to a curve because he couldn't command the slider.
IMO, if you have one breaking pitch you can throw for strikes then you are way ahead of the game. Having TWO is an embarrassment of riches.
Ran into a P the other weekend who had both, and could throw them in any count. Pitched a 3 hitter against us- two infield bloops and a single. Those two breaking pitches set up his FB beautifully.
Son has both slider and curve and has the ability to make the curve a snap curve or a looping curve. Uses them differently according to batter and situation. That's what it takes to pitch in SEC if you don't throw BB's. Also has great location with both fastballs. One scout said I've never seen pitcher with 6 pitches who can control most of them on any given day. I asked about 6 and he said I count the curves as two different pitches along with slider, changeup, and both fastballs. I joked wait until he throws the knuckleball and to beat all he threw it the last pitch of the game.
I believe as some have said that it depends on arm slot. But if you are trying to get a sidearm guy to move armslot up for speed you have to lose slider and teach curve while they are changing arm slot. Side arm guys to me really don't have a fastball but throw a natural slider that is just faster but that is why they struggle with location. Normally shortstops and third guys can throw slider easier than curve. Curve has to be taught.
As a 2021 (if he aspires to play in college), I think you have to look at the type of school your son is targeting and what is the velo range they are looking for. Almost always, college pitching evaluations start with fastball velocity, movement and control. If he can't throw a fastball to their specs for a strike, then curve, slurve or slider becomes irrelevent. At the time my son was being recruited he threw three pitches only two were "plus pitches" he was told by college recruiters. From there, we figured out that these D1 mid-majors and some D3s were looking for and offering kids like my son in the high-80s (touching 90s) who threw at least two "plus" pitches. "Plus pitches" are pitches that pitcher has mastered and can throw anywhere, in any count and still get a swing and miss or weak contact. For him the "plus pitches" were his change-up and his two-seam. Of course he had a four seam fastball too, but he rarely (intentionaly) threw it in the strike zone in college. He had only started working on the curve when he turned 16 years old, and he would eventually develop that pitch with his college pitching coach.
So, I guess I would try to figure out which pitch your son has more feel and control over and master it along with a fastball. Focus on two "plus pitches" to get your foot in the college recruiting door. Once you get your foot in the door, then it becomes a competition who is going to be a starter, long reliever, middle reliever, setup, closer and foul ball chaser on a college team. If your son can develop that third "plus pitch" chances are pretty good he'll find some playing time, but he has to get to two before he can get to three. I hope this makes sense. If not, please reach out.
As always, JMO.
Good advice. The more he throws his curve the more traditional curve it becomes. I think my son will be 86-87 by end of summer. Right now his fastball plays up because he has a high spin rate. Change could be really good but location needs to be more consistent and better. Seems like a lot of Mid to lower D1s are filling 2021 class despite pandemic. Been told that’ a few school my sons interested in are full. He’s hoping for an IVy to come sniffing but that likely won’t happen until velo ticks up 2-3 mph cruise and top end. Right now gettin some interest from HA and good DIIIs which might be best for anyway. Been on the road at WWBA week two now of three week road trip. Been fun! No matter what happens this is great to be able to spend time with my son. Thanks for the advice FenwaySouth and others. This website is so helpful.
