D-III Academics

Check into a great DIII example...Washington University in St. Louis. Outstanding academics.

quote:

Originally posted by Fungo:
Many here talk about the academic strengths in the NCAA D-3 schools. I fail to understand the "higher academics" perception of D-3 schools that prevails here on the HSBBW. Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't D-3 an NCAA athletic classification that has no connection to a school's academics? Maybe I'd be more impressed if the school's name were used instead of a generic "D-3" label (or maybe not). If the D-3 is that much stronger academically, why do people prove their qualifications with their claim of being educated from well known, high profile (usually D-1) colleges.
Fungo

Great question!

The are in fact many elite academic D3's however. As noted, D3 is only referring to which division of sports a college chooses to participate in even though many of these D3's have more students than some of the D1 schools that come to mind. I'll name a few off the top of my head and guess they all rank higher academically than most schools in the SEC for example. On the other hand, Vanderbilt is a school with an elite academic reputation from the SEC yet has a low student body population which is smaller than many D3's. Rice falls into the same category. Thus, some D3's have D1 student body numbers and some D1's are more like D3's academically. I believe Wake Forest is also in this category (low student count, high academics). Some D1 schools like Stanford and the IVY league have few peers academically.

1) MIT
2) Johns Hopkins (ironically competes in D1 LaCrosse)
3) Emory
4) University of Chicago

Other people can help me fill out the list. There are no universal rules obviously.

google search "nerdy nine" and "cerebral league"

Williams,
Amherst,
Pomona Pitzer,
Cal Tech,
Rhodes,
Trinity College,
Trinity University
Tufts,
DePauw.
Some common denominators:
Students are in the top 10% of their high school classes with SAT's in the 1300 plus range. Every student is there for the academics.
Very small class size, like 12-18 students per class,
Professors in every class. No TA's. Every professor is well paid and accessible at most any time.
Because of the small class size, the student has to be in class every day. You don't get lost. You cannot get lost. If you are not in class, the professor knows it. Class participation is a part of most every grade
Academic requirements are rigid with the student and professor knowing what is required day to day, and the student being required to be prepared each and every class.
These are a few of the elements of an education at an elite DIII.

I think a lot of it is because many of the top D3 programs in the country are also some of the finest schools in the country, particularly when you are talking about liberal arts colleges, where the focus is on undergraduate teaching with small classes and close professor/student relationships. Then you add to that the lower time commitment of D3 baseball, which allows students more time to focus on academics. Those combinations are exactly why some students who could otherwise play D1 choose not to pursue D1 and play D3 instead.

Schools in the northeast that are good examples are the NESCAC schools like Trinity, Tufts, Williams, Amherst; Centennial like Johns Hopkins, Haverford, Franklin & Marshall, and schools such as TCNJ. Basically, most of the top LAC colleges in the nation would be D3 programs. The quality of the baseball programs varies, but the academics are excellent. There are many who feel you get a better undergraduate education at these smaller LAC's than at top universities, including the ivies, where the top teachers are in the graduate schools, not the undergraduate. There have been studies that show that professors at many of the top universities in the country send their kids in disproportionate numbers to these smaller schools in greater numbers than they do to the type of institutions they teach in themselves. Of course, there is a wide range of academic quality in D3's. But here in the northeast, where a lot of the discussion of D3 probably originates on this site, there is just a big number of really fine schools with good D3 programs.

In the Northwest you have George Fox (Oregon, current assit. coach at Oregon State Pat Bailey used to be head coach at George Fox, they have a new guy also great coach, Linfield is in that conference(scott Brosius former MLB player) coaches, Portland has Lewis and clark all great D3. george Fox won the D3 world series a few years ago. Great schools, great academics.

And I was going to add a lot of these private schools the classes are all 4units. so the students take 16 units a semester, and graduate in four years. the reason they can be 16 units is because they are small class size, and there is mandatory participation (lots of it, small group discussions)

quote:

If the D-3 is that much stronger academically, why do people prove their qualifications with their claim of being educated from well known, high profile (usually D-1) colleges.

The question and the premise is based on a generalization that most people consider reasonable. Yet, when one looks at the substance of what consistitutes the prevelence of D3 schools, it is a high level of academics. For the most part, D3 schools are smaller <3,000 students and as such the "masses" may not know them by name or reputation.

For the average American they know what the TV tell's them. So if Big U is on TV it must be good. Unfortunatly that is the world we live in.

The same is true relative to BB. If it is D1 it is clearly better, right? I would suggest that very few have people have ever been to any kind of game other than their local big time D1, national or regional level program.

I would suggest, the quality of a school is what your kid gets from the experience. The measure of a school can not be measured by any kind of rating rather it is the experience and the person that we as a society get from any given school. That being said, time will tell whether a school delivers, whether it is a "high academic" D3, or a well known public D1.

ILVBB let me confuse the discussion.

quote:

That being said, time will tell whether a school delivers, whether it is a "high academic" D3, or a well known public D1.

Are you saying this to perpetuate the perception that D-3's are academically on a higher level than a public D-1 and D-1s' reputation is just conjured up by the media?

quote:

The same is true relative to BB. If it is D1 it is clearly better, right? I would suggest that very few have people have ever been to any kind of game other than their local big time D1, national or regional level program

I have seen a very limited number of D-3 games and a few D-1 games. The number of games I have seen wouldn't begin to qualify me to comment on a comparison overall but rather on just the few teams I have seen. I will admit that I believe D-1 baseball is stronger than D-3 baseball based somewhat on those games I have seen. Is your comment meant to make me question my belief that D-1 baseball is better than D-3 baseball because my belief is unfounded. Sorry if I am making assumptions but it looks as if you're hinting at division equality in athletics ---- but --- D-3 superiority academically. Let me ask: If ALL D1 and D3's competed against each other athletically, what would the W-L indicate?

Not sure how you measure college academic accomplishments when those colleges are divided by the NCAA. ---- more difficult that establishing a W-L record in baseball.
Fungo

Perhaps it is b/c many D3 schools have a higher opinion of themselves than is reality?

Perhaps it is b/c the D3 athletic depts do not (in general) cause a financial drain on those schools that they are able to pour a greater percentage of money on academics.

Perhaps there are per capita just as many "good academic" and "bad academic" D3 schools are there are D1 schools.

Perhaps it is b/c a majority of D3 schools are private (thus "numbers driven")...and survive by choosing to keep their doors open by lax admission standards...or choose to attract students by virtue of a great academic reputation.

Just more food for thought.

JT, You should know this. Does setting the entrance bar higher (ACT SAT etc.) improve the academics of a college or does it just improve the "average" ACT, GPA, SAT, I.Q. the of the student body?

Fungo - I did not get the same read from IL VBB's comments that you were asking him about. He will probably respond, but I think the point he was making was actually that, whether it is academics or baseball, it is not safe to generalize. I would assume most poeple would recognize that most D1's would whoop most D3's collective butts in baseball, but, as has been discussed here in the past, there are top D3's who could and have competed with some D1 programs.

JT - I think when people are talking about choosing a D3 for academic reasons, they are talking about the stronger academic D3's, not D3's in general necessarily. As far as private D3's having lax admisssions standards, though, the schools that people are usually talking about when they refer to strong D3 academics have anything but lax admissions standards. The schools given as examples in posts above have some of the most stringent admissions standards in the country. Again, I think it is the segment of a total population that folks generally think about in terms of some of these discussions, and not the populations in total.

quote:

JT, You should know this. Does setting the entrance bar higher (ACT SAT etc.) improve the academics of a college or does it just improve the "average" ACT, GPA, SAT, I.Q. the of the student body?

I'm going to respond to this as well, as it is an interesting question and one that I have read about a lot recently related to my son's college search. One of the most commonly held points that I have seen is that the reason having a higher caliber of students (measured by grades, SAT's or whatever) raises academic standard is that professors can cover a higher level of material at a faster pace than they can if they have to slow down for students who are not able to comprehend material as quickly or thoroughly. That is why the Honors curriculums at large public schools are highly sought after by top students, for example, or why many students would choose to pay high tuition to attend a school that offers small classes, strong students and top notch teachers. This is a discussion that could go off in many directions with many different viewpoints, of course.

Casey, Thanks for the great input. One other question about your comment:

quote:

many students would choose to pay high tuition to attend a school that offers small classes, strong students and top notch teachers.

I wonder if colleges with the higher entrance requirements give out more academic aid per capita than a college with lower entrance requirements? For instance. A student with a 30 ACT would get substantial academic money at State U ---- would that same student get substantial academic money from Elite U or would they be considered an "average" student and have to pay full tuition??

Looking to the core of Fungo's question, the term DIII only has signficance in athletics. It does not refer to academics. Rather, the reference is the lack of scholarship aid for the student athletes.
If there was not a NCAA classification for athletics, there would we would not even talk about DIII vs DI, especially as it relates to academics.
As JT very properly points out, the term DIII does not equate to academics as there are stronger and weaker schools in academics at the DIII level, just as there are at the DI and DII level.
Even within schools, there are recognized stronger and weaker departments at DIII schools, DII and DI.
A strong comparison can be made between Rice and Trinity U(Tx.) There is a lot of information provided by those who do such things that supports the quality of education offered at each. Many of those describe how the academics and quality of education are similar. Rice did not offer s****r and you find Trinity has a nationally ranked DIII s****r program because it is the academic/athletic option for very good players, who might otherwise be at Rice.
With that said, you are not going to confuse baseball at Rice and Trinity. Both are very good but one is very good where scholarships are available and one is DIII.
While Trinity has players who could play for Rice, if they played 56. games, Trinity would be satisfied if they won 10. Rice probably would not be if Trinity won 10.
These schools offer very similar academics, top quality athletics, and are similar in size.
The classification of DI vs DIII is meaningful when you talk about them, but only on the
athletic field.

quote:

Originally posted by infielddad:
Looking to the core of Fungo's question, the term DIII only has signficance in athletics. It does not refer to academics. Rather, the reference is the lack of scholarship aid for the student athletes.
If there was not a NCAA classification for athletics, there would we would not even talk about DIII vs DI, especially as it relates to academics.
As JT very properly points out, the term DIII does not equate to academics as there are stronger and weaker schools in academics at the DIII level, just as there are at the DI and DII level.
Even within schools, there are recognized stronger and weaker departments at DIII schools, DII and DI.
A strong comparison can be made between Rice and Trinity U(Tx.) There is a lot of information provided by those who do such things that supports the quality of education offered at each. Many of those describe how the academics and quality of education are similar. Rice did not offer s****r and you find Trinity has a nationally ranked DIII s****r program because it is the academic/athletic option for very good players, who might otherwise be at Rice.
With that said, you are not going to confuse baseball at Rice and Trinity. Both are very good but one is very good where scholarships are available and one is DIII.
While Trinity has players who could play for Rice, if they played 56. games, Trinity would be satisfied if they won 10. Rice probably would not be if Trinity won 10.
These schools offer very similar academics, top quality athletics, and are similar in size.
The classification of DI vs DIII is meaningful when you talk about them, but only on the
athletic field.

Perfectly stated! Remove the NCAA athletic classifaication then compare.

quote:

Originally posted by Fungo:
JT, You should know this. Does setting the entrance bar higher (ACT SAT etc.) improve the academics of a college or does it just improve the "average" ACT, GPA, SAT, I.Q. the of the student body?

Great question. As someone who has worked at both level of colleges...I think it does BOTH. Because the students coming in are of higher quality, the professors can crank up the intensity of the classes, without fear of numbers dropping (which in an enrollment driven school...will lead to pressure from the higher ups to increase retention).

casey...not ALL the D3's have lax standards...but some do...mainly b/c of financial issue.

Fungo...in terms of academic aid (or "discounting" the tuition)...this helps make D3 a least a little less expensive. However, discounting too much can lead to issues with the accrediting bodies. The school RANDOLPH COLLEGE (formerly known as Randolph Macon Women's College) went Co-ed and ran into accrediting issues b/c of the discounting tuition. In their case, it was not an academic issue, but more of a financial issue. Instead of relaxing standards, they voted to expand the college by going co-ed.

The challenge is that we are comparing two different groups of things that were grouped together using different criteria.

Imagine if we were to sort all of the vehicle at the San Francisco Airport parking lot. We might do a sort by color - so the Ford Mustang, the Chevy Pickup and the Honda Accord would all end up in a group of red cars. Or we might do a sort by acceleration - the Mustang would no longer be with the Chevy and the Honda but instead would be with the Porsche and the Corvette.

Well, athletic and academic levels are somewhat like color and acceleration. There are D3 and D1 schools that are excellent academically - and there are D3 schools and D1 schools that are far weaker academically. Schools like Trinity (Tx), Rice and Stanford happen to be both excellent academically and athletically. Schools like Pomona, Cal Tech, MIT, Harvard, Yale, and University of Chicago are all top notch academically and perhaps not as strong athletically.

D3 schools can have large endowments - which lead to large financial aid grants. I just visited Pomona with my daughter and so I happen to have information about their financial aid at my fingertips.

Pomona is "committed to both need-blind admissions and fully funded, need-based financial aid, the College reviews each applicant entirely on the basis of academic promise, then meets 100 percent of the demonstrated need of every student admitted."

They have $1.8B in the bank - in the top 50 endowments in the country. They are #6 in endowment per student.

08Son applied to D1, D2, and D3 schools - and got financial and merit aid packages from all three. Some packages were better than others - but it did not appear to be correlated to what level "D" they were at. There was some correlation to academic level of school - but even there, some schools simply have more money to give. (Those with large endowments are "fully funded" )

In terms of academic excellence once you are there, I firmly believe that there is a difference between schools at the very high end - but that you can get a great education at practically any university if you seek it out.

Probably the opposite is more where the difference lies - I think it would be very hard to get a bad education at a top academic school without flunking out but that there are places to hide and graduate without learning anything at bad schools.

quote:

I wonder if colleges with the higher entrance requirements give out more academic aid per capita than a college with lower entrance requirements? For instance. A student with a 30 ACT would get substantial academic money at State U ---- would that same student get substantial academic money from Elite U or would they be considered an "average" student and have to pay full tuition??

Ah, Fungo, here you raise a question very near and dear to my....wallet. Unfortunately, the last part of your statement holds truer for the very elite schools. The Ivies and the very top liberal arts colleges generally don't even offer academic scholarships because they don't have to in order to attract top students. For example, my son is waiting to get a letter today or tomorrow that will let him know if he has been admitted early decision to a top LAC outside of Philly. They offer no academic or athletic $$, only need based financial aid. The same is true for several other schools he will apply to if he doesn't get into his top choice. There are, however, many less competitive LAC's that do offer academic scholarships, and there are some of these on his list if he does not get into his top choice or a couple of other "reach" schools. The schools that are a tier or two below the really elite schools typically offer academic money, in part at least as a way to entice the better students to attend who might otherwise choose the schools ranked more highly that do not give such scholarships. I imagine our son could have qualified for academic money at many state schools, but for us there is a compelling reason to choose a small school with small classes and close teacher/student interactions, as our son has processing issues that would make learning in a large lecture hall format much more difficult than in a small discussion based classroom enviornment that he can get right off the bat in a small LAC.

I also meant to say that, in response to Fungo's original question, Infielddad's first post succintly describes the reasons we chose to look at D3 schools. I think a major academic consideration in D1 vs. D3 is not that there is necessarily an intrinsic difference in the level of academic opportunity at a top D1 vs. a top D3, but that at the D3 level the commitment in time to the baseball program is enough lower that it allows you to focus more on academics. Our son is interested in double majoring in phyics and astronomy. He throws hard enough that he probably could have pursued low to mid=level D1, but I couldn't imagine him being able to balance the D1 sports demands with what he wants to do academically.

I shouldn't use words like succinctly if I am not going to type them correctly!

I researched D3s a lot becasue my son was going to attend. A lot of the D3 EX. George Fox used to be NAIA and they did give out athletic money. That particular conference decided to be D3. The philosophy of D3 is academics first before academics. I am not saying D1 dont focus on academics. I am mainly just discussing the philosophy of D3. They believe the athlete should play for love of the game and not want to be there based on scholarship amts. A lot of students(againnot all) choose D3 for several reasons. 1. Maybe thats the level they can play at 2. they do not want the added time pressures of d1 athletics and be able to devote more to school 3. The athletic programs know the students are there to be students first 4. they usually are smaller/ so smaller class size( to some that equates to a more individualized and personal education much more interaction in class then a lecture hall with 150 students. I really dont think you can compare. Its a matter of choice and options that a student athlete has. I think as stated befoe you can get an education anywhere if you want to learn. Look at the D3 website and read about their philosophy. I know that the coach where my son was going to attend recruits d1s who might of fell through the crack, or borderline D1,then he loses kids that might get that D1 in the spring. Not always but it does happen.so was that student going to the D3 for academics , no where he could play, but on the plus size gets a good education while there.Win lose situation if you ask me. up to the kid.

As a former D3 coach, those schools typically have higher admission standards which means you are recruiting a high caliber student-athlete. But there is a lot of variation amongst the D3 schools. I coached at schools where we could get kids in with a 20 ACT, and other schools where they had no chance unless they had at least a 25. I mean if yo are looking at it strictly from admission standards, consider this: which degree has the greatest appeal academically: D3 private school, D1 state school, local community college?

The degree can be a help, but I've always believed that it is the person that has the potential, not the degree.....

MAXX

This is a very interesting thread. At first I thought it would end up being divisive, an us vs. them type of discussion. Instead, there has been some very thoughtful responses.

In my limited experience, I have noticed that, as a rule, their is a difference between DI and DIII baseball programs. The time commitment which I have heard about in DI programs is not consistent with what my son has experienced this fall/winter at the DIII which he attends. The conference in which my son's school competes has strict limits on out of season practicing. It seems that those students who are playing at DI schools have not run into those same limits.

I am sure that there are exceptions to all rules. That is why you often hear on this site that there are some DIII programs which are as competitive on the field as some DI programs. One need only look at the number of drafted players from each classification to make a quick assessment as to, as a rule, which division produces the higher quality baseball player. Often it is said, however, that there are many students/athletes playing at the DIII level who could also compete at the DI level.

Students and athletes attend college for many different reasons. That is why all these rules and assumptions do not necessarily help resolve the issue of which school, or for that matter, which NCAA classification level, is the best choice for any particular individual.

My son has worked very hard in school this semester. He has worked harder at baseball than at any previous time in his life. He is very excited for the Spring to get here.

Guys:

4thGen has applied to some of the top academic schools in the country, both DIs and DIIIs. He also has opportunities to play at mid and lower level DI programs and some level of interest from a couple of top level DI baseball programs.

While we are wrestling with how much academic reputation he is willing to give up in order to play baseball at the highest level, we have also come to realize that we should honor his gift as a baseball player. We have found that there are some top academic DIII schools where baseball is as important to them as it is to him.

quote:

which degree has the greatest appeal academically: D3 private school, D1 state school, local community college?

You also need to define "state university." There's a big difference between Penn State and Bloomsburg University.

For those who understand the specific distinction, most people don't. For example, by definition Penn State is land grant university providing in-state pricing. Bloomsburg is part of the state university system.

From an academic angle there's a huge difference. Penn State is part of the Big Ten. The Big Ten schools are known as prestigious major research universities. Bloomsburg probably isn't that well known outside the state. I had only heard of it before moving here because some Giant's tight end years ago played at Bloomsburg.

The high academic D3's are typically liberal arts schools that with good grades with get the student into most high end major university graduate programs.

Sorry to come in late, but I've been moving over the last days days.

Low student/faculty ratio (10:1 or less) is an essential component of the high-end D3 model. Its one of the key "spreadsheet" issues for many people. A low ratio is desirable for several reasons:

Primary among these are that a low ratio almost forces daily student involvement. It is virtually possible to "hide in the back of the room" the way you can in a large lecture class. Professors are also able to identify when students fall behind and intervene proactively.

Students are also routinely forced to be demonstrate clear command of course material in daily dynamic give-and-take dialogs.

(Imagine its 09:00 and you are face-to-face with a dozen other top 5% students in a small room, when a relentless Ph.D, asks....)

"Mr. Pence, do you see any inconsistencies with Ms. Goudy's analysis of Kant's conclusion?"

"Mr. Woodling, are there any fundamental flaws in Mr. Miller's application of Hamiltonian (particle motion) dynamics in his revised model?"

"Ms. Searle, does the ongoing economic malaise secure failed case status for Smith's "Invisible Hand"? (The Wealth of Nations)"

(Note: There is no time for library or Google look-up. You must be prepared in advance, every day and able to create strong, spoken arguments, on the fly, supported with well constructed "proof".

Beyond world class critical thinking skills, the professional "life skill" in this small class model/method is in the personal power it develops. Those who master this skill, benefit from greater influence in professional dialogs, large and small.

re: "Does setting the entrance bar higher (ACT SAT etc.) improve the academics of a college or does it just improve the "average" ACT, GPA, SAT, I.Q. the of the student body?"

Consider this analogy:

If ALL my recruits run sub-6.6 60s, ALL the pitchers work at 90+, pop-times are ALL sub 1.8, hitters ALL have bat speeds of 100mph+ and everyone's SPARQ scores top 80, isn't it logical to expect my baseball team would improve?

Wow, HaverDad, I don't know what school your specific references came from, but thankfully I experienced nothing quite that awful at a small, highly-regarded D3. In fact, law school wasn't even that bad!!!

i agree. this is a good discussion.

casey75........google "enrollment management"........and "tuition discounting"......

i've read that sometimes geographic diversity is a factor.....some colleges like to enroll students from many different states. it's been suggested to try to get an understanding of the enrollment strategies of the various colleges. some will focus on one thing and others on another.........perhaps if an lac with a large female population, they'd like to see more males enroll..........and does that make a difference in the financial aid package ? if a science technology school, would they like to see more english majors enroll ? there are lots of things that are considered.........all part of enrollment management. it's an interesting topic.

there are so many variances even at the d3 level........one admission rep told us basically that they were looking for kids who had an interest in their school for the music offerings and that if they happened to want to play sports.......that was ok too. perhaps another school might be more serious about their recruiting efforts and actively recruiting serious student athletes. lots of variance..........you have to look at each individual school, even at the d3 level.

it does seem like that there is consistency within the leagues......like minded schools are together in leagues........

as to fungo's question........i think it's worthwhile finding out which major employers make visits to the campuses to recruit their employees. some schools get visits from top firms while others do not.

re: specific references.... Those are "sample references". Samples were faster to create than to research.

I didn't mean to give the impression that all undergrad classes get that edgy. But my experience is that its not unusual, in your major at least, to be responsible for an everyday defense of your "takes" on the big idea(s).

Lowered student/faculty ratios are one way Bowdoin College has parlayed lower student/faculty ratios into a top ten ranking during the past few years.

Here is one bit of (slightly dated) cost/payback analysis regarding Attending a Highly Selective College.

what Haverdad says about the interaction at at least some D3 s is true. I dont know to the extent. but the one we visited said that the students must interact with the moterial in a significant way, that is why they give 4 units pre class at the one we viisted, in liew of 3 units becasue of the incresed amt of student participation and group work they assign.

Holden I agree . That place is a scary place.

btbballfannumber1 - I understand what enrollment management and tuition discounting are...just not why you wanted me to google them.

casey75 - you mentioned your wallet.....


i'm just saying it's all very complicated.......that's why families compare the financial aid packages from multiple schools. tuition discounting and enrollment management.....seem to play a part in the process..from admissions and on to financial aid.

as mentioned earlier in the thread..........some schools meet more need than others.

quote:

I wonder if colleges with the higher entrance requirements give out more academic aid per capita than a college with lower entrance requirements? For instance. A student with a 30 ACT would get substantial academic money at State U ---- would that same student get substantial academic money from Elite U or would they be considered an "average" student and have to pay full tuition??

maybe, maybe not.........depends on enrollment management and how that student fits into the big picture. does that student besides the 30 act bring something else to the table.......national recognition, other talents (music, sports, etc.), geographic diversity ?
also depends on the dollars that the different schools have available......some have more to give away than others.
there are even differences in how state colleges in the same state award merit aid. they may have different enrollment goals. they don't all offer the same academic scholarships. their total coa's usually vary too.
merit aid and need based aid are 2 different things.......sometimes both are awarded.
if they receive need based aid at the elite....it might be more than merit aid received at others. depends on need as determined by the school's office of financial aid.

i think you have to take into consideration that there are only so many student "athletes" with 30 act and above in the recruiting pool for the colleges with the very selective admissions policies. for those kids, they are in a very good position. i would think there would be a lot of interest from colleges.

haverdad.....thanks for the links.

Yes, thanks, we understand all that. The only reason I mentioned my wallet is that most of my son's top choices don't offer merit money and we don't qualify for financial aid. But that's a choice we are willing to make to send him to the school of his choice vs. a lower tier school where he may get some merit money.

casey75....sounds like a wise decision....to send him to a smaller school. i understand how some kids are more successful in smaller classes. it's good that you are involved and helping him find what works best for him.

Btbb I'm not sure wher you came up with that conclusion.

He was probably referring to my prior post where I stated that smaller classes were important to my son due to certain processing (focus) issues.