D1 Pitching Coaches

Butch Thompson at Auburn is really good with pitchers. Recruited my son at Miss State but son went to Clemson. 

Andrew See at Clemson worked well with my son over the 3 years he was there.

That's going to be a tough one for you, but if you and your son are willing to do the research, there will be some indicators out there just on the team roster and stats pages.  For schools he might be interested in, take a three year look at the roster and the archived stats pages.  My son did this for his top schools and it was really telling in terms of who pitched each year, how much they pitched, and what did they do the next year.  It can be a lot of work and tedious, but it is well worth the time and effort.

Seeing a lot of roster churn is telling for pitchers, as many schools start slow at freshman year, maybe even redshirt several pitchers, and then build up pitchers with juniors and seniors getting the most innings.  Top freshman may start, but most likely work in the bullpen.  Are there JuCos and other transfers who come in and immediately get the innings?  You can even get some indication of injuries for kids who pitch a lot and then stop pitching. But are kids who began as freshman at the school building up to become mainstays over time, or are they just dropped and transfer?

Not sure how elite your son is, but clearly UCLA and Vanderbilt are two of the best at recruiting and developing pitchers who become MLB stars (G.Cole, Griffin Canning, Price, Buehler and so on).  There are plenty of highly regarded pitching coaches on other schools, and some of them are pretty stable in their programs.  Finally, you can always ask the guys at Driveline who they communicate a lot with--works both ways as they can get a word in with the coaches/schools they know.

Good luck.

I understand the concept of getting to a PROGRAM that takes good care of its pitchers, but I wouldn't get too attached to any specific individual at college.

The pitching coach who recruited my son went to the pros before his freshman season started, the guy they brought in to replace him who had 12 years  in the majors isn't coming back for a second year and the new one used to be the hitting coach and apparently was a strength coach before that. Son has learned a lot from each of them and formed new relationships that will serve him well in the future.

In all of their favor, they pulled son out of summer ball commitment at the last minute and arranged for him to spend the summer working with an outside coach on some mechanical issue that they all agreed needed to be addressed before his sophomore year. Neither my son, nor my husband or I had any idea the issue existed, but when I showed a photo of him throwing to one of our trusted baseball coach friends he immediately said "gosh yes, totally the right thing to do."

Backstop22 posted:

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Seeing a lot of roster churn is telling for pitchers, as many schools start slow at freshman year, maybe even redshirt several pitchers, and then build up pitchers with juniors and seniors getting the most innings.  Top freshman may start, but most likely work in the bullpen.  Are there JuCos and other transfers who come in and immediately get the innings?  You can even get some indication of injuries for kids who pitch a lot and then stop pitching. But are kids who began as freshman at the school building up to become mainstays over time, or are they just dropped and transfer?

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Bingo.  Yahtzee.   Good call Backstop22..   We took this historical approach in our research, and found one offering program in particular had challenges keeping their pitchers healthy over a 4-5 year period.  Coaches will always tell you what you want to hear when they are recruiting somebody.  Look into their history and also their in-season and out of season training practices and philosophies.   Look into the pitching staffs performance as it relates to peer schools or schools in the same conference.   Results matter when choosing between similar schools and pitching philosophy.  We had one recruiting PC that was all about endurance and running distances.   This made no sense to us.   Yes running is important for conditioning but running a 10K isn't getting hitters out.   

Never underestimate chemistry.   My son knew from the minute he met his PC that this was the guy he wanted to work with every day for 4 years.  This guy was data driven, logical, and common sense was a major part of his  coaching.   This is vastly better coaching style than the "yeller" or the "fly off the handle coach" that my son saw when he visited some other schools.   My son's PC let each pitcher work within their unique style and the pitching coach adapted to them rather than the cookie cutter approach that you see many college coaches implement where the pitcher has to adjust to that one style.

There is a lot to consider.   Good luck.

There are plenty of good pitching coaches out there. I think you would be better served asking around about specific schools he is interested in. Me recommending a coach at Northwest Southeast University doesn't mean much if that isn't a school he'd consider. You'd probably be better off asking - who are the best PCs in the SEC, ACC, Patriot, Ivy, etc. 

As it was mentioned, a coach should help make a decision, but don't get attached. Their jobs are only as good as the staff ERA or as good as the HC makes them. When the HC takes a new job or gets fired, usually everybody goes. 

Also injuries happen. I know it is good to be on the cautious side and if there is a history of injuries that is concerning but if coaches have a program in place and players slack off or don't take care of their bodies you can't pin that on the coach. I knew a player who was having arm problems in school and wasn't pitching. I saw the coach at an event and asked what was going on. He wasn't following his program. The coach told me exactly how he would injure himself and sure enough it happened later that summer and he'd be out of baseball by the following spring. 

Would have to throw Frank Anderson at the University of Tennessee.  Great developer of pitchers and getting them to the show, including his own son.   New to UT so he will probably be there for a while and just got a raise.  Don't think he wants back into the HC thing. 

In my neck of the woods the TCU pitching coach has a good reputation, OU head coach, LSU head coach, Arkansas pitching coach, Texas A&M head coach, Texas Tech pitching coach are some that come to mind along with others... would list the names, but would have to look up the spellings on many of these...

Every kids situation is different. The best pitching coach might not be the best fit for your son. How many innings are guys getting outside of the 3 weekend starters, mid week starter and top guys out of the pen? Are 8 guys throwing all the innings? How do guys develop in the program? Are all the top inning guys Fresh and Sophs? Are there any Jr's and Sr's getting significant innings? In this program with the best pitching coach is that the best situation for your son? Is there that much difference in with THIS best pitching coach is doing and the better fit for your son with that pitching coach?

Now if your son is a top level arm who is going to be a dude no matter where he goes then fine by all means find the guy you believe is that guy. Of course there's no guarantee he will be there once he get's there are after he get's there. 

I say find the best fit for your son period. That includes a solid PC HC AC etc. The best pitching coach I know coaches at a D2. If your son is a high level D1 guy would you send him to the D2 because he is the best pitching coach in America? And to be honest the top programs have the top arms. Philosophy, Development, Interaction, Personality, Consistency, Prior Success, etc etc. 

Good Luck

My 2020 is not going to a P5 or mid major, but outside of researching the schools, when he's speaking with the coach/HC he asked about their pitcher training, etc. There are certain things that would be red flags for him.

We've also been targeting schools where the HC is either an ex pitcher or catcher.

2020-RHP-Dad posted:

In my neck of the woods the TCU pitching coach has a good reputation, OU head coach, LSU head coach, Arkansas pitching coach, Texas A&M head coach, Texas Tech pitching coach are some that come to mind along with others... would list the names, but would have to look up the spellings on many of these...

Things are not always as they appear to be......or how they are described by the clueless broadcasters on ESPN telecasts (with apologies to Kyle Peterson - who is actually very good). 

adbono posted:

Things are not always as they appear to be......or how they are described by the clueless broadcasters

I freely admit to not being able to personally evaluate who is or who is not an elite college pitching coach. What I wrote are names that I have been told were or have heard or read somewhere that they were pretty good... so take it for whatever that's worth. The only decent metric I can use personally is pitching success their players have in college games and beyond - and even that is not necessarily a good metric as the top programs start with much better pitching talent to begin with.

Since your son follows Driveline, he may have seen this tweet about tech in college baseball.

https://twitter.com/drivelineb.../1143589712541523968

As MidAtlanticDad (MAD [really?]), pointed out, all programs are going high(er) tech. 

As in all new technology applications, there is a huge learning curve. Therefore, while the biggest programs have virtually the same tech as proball (e.g., Rapsodo), imo, most coaches are not (yet) to the stage where they actually understand (a) what the numbers mean, (b) how to identify the key variables (i.e., out of all the data generated, which are important), and/or (c) how to adjust/teach the delivery to get the desired metrics.

In fact, the pros are still analyzing which variables are critical. As proball refines and focuses on one data point over another, players have adapted deliveries to hit those metrics. I believe last year a guy was signed and released by half a dozen teams after he posted eye popping metrics, only to not be able to get guys actually out. So, there's that problem.

At the college level, the problem of understanding what to do with the data is magnified as each program goes to seminars, listens to industry consultants for suggestions, etc., on how to incorporate this huge influx of data into their programs. Much of what a program may focus on today (and insist their players conform to) will be found to be fairy dust tomorrow as a new data point is "discovered."

(From a practical standpoint, at the granular level, is the impact/reliance the tech has on, for example, a bull pen. Before spring training began, I watched a whole series of pro guys use the system for their lessons. Instead of a flowing series of pitches synced to a pitcher's rhythm, after every pitch was THE PAUSE (lasting half a minute and more), waiting for the data to be displayed, reading and reacting to the data, discussing how to improve the key numbers (without changing good numbers), then mentally adjusting and, finally, throwing. Then rinse and repeat. An entirely different approach to a BP and one which takes time to adjust too.)

Most college coaches I know may well figure it out in the long run, but are using their current players as Guinea pigs in changing swings and deliveries.

(Of course, the player has no choice but to make the changes the coach orders.)

Luckily son is only a 2022, so hopefully the coaches will have the tech a little more figured out. We have a Rapsodo & caught ourselves doing the same thing you described, so other than checking spin efficiency every once in a while, we’ve put it up until the off season. 

@KLL - wondering what you have learned in the last 18 months with how to approach the process of identifying high quality college pitching programs.  My son is a 2024 LHP, we are two years behind you on this journey.

How much of a data-driven approach did you take?

How many schools did you help your son do research on, or unofficially visit before you started to narrow the choices?

thanks in advance for updating this story.

A poor S&C coach can make a good PC look worse than he actually is.  Also, a PC can only work with the guys who make it to campus.  Outside factors, like ugly uniforms, ballpark fence distance, wrong swag partner, etc can drive or eliminate talent coming in the door.  There is a lot of gray area that you could consider and drive yourself mad.   Usually you will just know it when the fit is right.   Go where you are loved.  A PC that checks all the boxes but could care less about your player being there is not a good fit.

@mjd-dad posted:

@KLL - wondering what you have learned in the last 18 months with how to approach the process of identifying high quality college pitching programs.  My son is a 2024 LHP, we are two years behind you on this journey.

How much of a data-driven approach did you take?

How many schools did you help your son do research on, or unofficially visit before you started to narrow the choices?

thanks in advance for updating this story.

Wondering that myself as the original post was a while ago.

Of course Scott Brown at Vandy. Danny Borrell at GT is the GOAT and like fenway mentioned for her son, my son bonded immediately with DBo and the rest of the GT coaches (Easy choice). Dusty Blake at Duke was good. UVA was good. UNC was good. Hobbs at Arkansas was good. Wake is good, wonderful facility. Most at the elite level are going to be good. Again it is going to be more about fit. ATOC Podcast, I was impressed by what Iowa had to say and what they have and are working with and their approach there.

You want to go somewhere, as others have said, where they want you, work with you and aren't known for playing favorites.  Is your visit more about them bragging on the program or about how and what they do to develop, work with and get their players to the next level. You want to go somewhere that works with and develops their pitchers and doesn't overhaul, just tweaks. You got to that level for a reason so minor tweaks will elevate more than overhaul.

Some schools only recruit GAS (throwers) others recruit CONTROL (Pitchers). Look to see what kind of program they are. As others have said, RESEARCH!!  How many Pitchers per class? What is longevity at programs, year over year....look at injuries. @CollegebaseballInsights might have some metrics on this.  When would you get a chance to play? So many in front of you you won't pitch until SO or JR? or Do you have a chance to compete and play as a FR? There are programs that are known for not playing freshman.

My son "short arms" and everyone commented on it and held it against him BUT the elite programs, like Duke, GT, UVA and others that actually recruit for and/or work with that style ("more control, less injuries, faster recovery"). Once he broke 90 and with control pitched a perfect game at WWBA playing up his Junior year, the others flipped the script, which was a put off. Gas and Control is a great asset.

Look at the various programs and cities they're in. That was a HUGE knock against Duke. Durham (just like Austin) (is not a city I would recommend). I know this as I lived there for 3 years working at the Medical Center and it only got worse when we went for a camp at UNC/Duke and toured both cities almost 20 years later. I currently live in Austin for the past 20 years.......

You should also like the city you're in and the campus you're on. That is why it is so important to get eyes on campus and visit!

Some really good points made by Coach May and adbono.

I might add that some folks are rattling off names of PC's from programs that most sons of parents here will never get a chance to meet or set foot on their campus.

This is no offense to anyone, but just a bit of reality. If you have an elite player, go for it, if not, dont waste your time trying to contact these P5 programs, be realistic.

There are a lot of really, really accomplished pitching coaches in mid D1 programs which probably would be a very good match for most. I cannot comment on D2 or D3, or JUCO.

I do know two things, coaches recruit players and decide who comes and who stays, not the other way around. Keep that in mind when that elite HC does not offer, dont take it personally.

Also, keep in mind that most coaches are not the same guy who you thought he was when he recruited you a few years ago.

They might not even be there anymore.