D111 how long to wait

DIII recruiting tends to be later than D1, so I would think it would not be a problem. Some of this depends on how talented your son is as well as his grades. My son is a freshmen at a DIII this year and he applied and was accepted after their application cut off. FWIW, the application councilor told us that they typically only accept exceptional students after the deadline. He formally signed his admittance docs to the school on the May 1st deadline. He was weighing his options until the very last minute, most of which were D1, so I think this made the coach a little more understanding. Each situation is unique so I think you just need to weight your options. Since there is no athletic money at the DIII level I think the coaches have to be more patient and flexible.

My son is a freshman at a DIII as well. He did not make his decision till late in May. We talked with each of the schools coaches and admissions officers, two of the three schools were willing to give him an extension on his deposit. The one that did not, we went ahead and gave the deposit making it clear that he had not made his decision yet.

One the players being recruited by his current team did not make his decision till late July or early Agust, right before reporting to classes.

Of course each case is unique. Take the time to talk to the coaches and the admission office. Their responses may help him in his decision.

I was in the same boat my senior year. I had multiple D3 options from the beginning of my senior year, but wanted to wait until late in my senior year to make sure all my options were out on the table. I made it clear to the coaches what my time table was too. Being how D3's don't give money athletically, but many are quite generous academically, I used my senior year to improve my grades and earn as much scholarship money as possible. I also used the winter to improve my skills in hopes of earning money from a school that offers athletic scholarships.

As BOF stated above, each situation is unique and it is important to be on the same page as the coach. An important question I made sure to ask each coach was their procedure for fall tryouts. The schools I looked at all had 40-50 kids tryout in the fall, but assured me I would be on the spring squad. This put less pressure on me to make a hasty decision, but the coaches of course wanted my word so they could move forward with recruiting. Don't feel rushed to make the decision with D3's. This was the best choice I made in my process. I was nearly dead set on one of the D3's, but late in the process had a change of heart and signed with a JUCO. I couldn't be happier with my decision either. This decision will effect your son more than anyone, so don't let him feel rushed to make the call.

Don't be afraid to ask the difficult questions either. Although it may seem uncomfortable, the coaches were always honest and never mislead me. I did my best to return the favor to them.

I tried to be thorough, but it is a long process and difficult to summarize. If there are any questions you have, feel free to PM me.

barnes...curious. Why were you initially leaning toward the D3, and what made you change your mind and go JuCo? I'm interested in learning from your experience. Good luck.

Tx-husker... The D3 is a great school with a great coach and a great program. It was good fit and I would have done well there. As with any private school though, the tuition was through the roof. My parents do well enough and told me to not think too much of the tuition, they would handle that. I did my best to pull my weight and and bring down the cost through scholarship money. I earned a good chunk of change with a good GPA, but my goal was to enter the public school price range and that didn't happen.

When a successful JUCO came knocking with a scholarship offer it was hard to pass up. The coach and his staff are OUTSTANDING at their job and I am excited to soak up their knowledge. I also am challenging for a starting spot my freshmen year, where as I would have no doubt sat a year at the D3 (they have a very good senior catcher). I'm excited to adapt to the college game and progress my skills, and if the same school is interested in a couple of years then I can get my degree for nearly half the price.

I wouldn't have gone to any JUCO just to save some money. This was one of the schools I was targeting though and the opportunity was just too good.

wogdoggy,

One of the first pieces of advice we recieved four years ago when my son was first introduced into college baseball recruiting was to "wait as long as you possibly can" to find the right athletic and academic fit. We were told..."only then will you truly know what is possible". THey were 100% right in our case.

Like most people on this site, we went through alot, and we are much better for it today. Our recruiting spectrum was very broad at first because son had in-demand baseball skills and excellent grades to back it up. This combination gave him many, many options. We discovered major differences between traditional D1 and D1 Ivys & Patriot, as well as elite D3 LACs and more traditional D3s. By waiting, we were able to better understand these difference and focus in on what mattered most to us. That "wait as long as you can" piece of advice was one of the best pieces of advice we ever received. We learned alot in 4 years.

Best of luck.

thanks for sharing, Barnes. Hope it works out exactly as you have it planned. Sounds like you're a kid with a plan and follow it...gotta respect that. It will serve you well in life. I was curious if you were kicking around a D1 goal but a desire to do a 4 year school thing.

I know the advise everyone has out there is only go to a 4 year school you can see yourself graduating from, and I agree with that. But there are transfer options from D3 to D1 later on without sitting out. Was curious if that was part of your thinking.

Best of luck.

Did the same thing as Barnes....actually didn't sign NLI with JUCO until early July. D3 I was considering would have been a great fit, and still may be, but I wanted to save my parents some money and shoot for playing at a higher level. So far so good...battling for a starting OF position with 5 or 6 returning players and/or So. transfers...should get plenty of playing time.

I'm not sure if you are asking whether I am still considering D1, or if I would have considered transferring from the D3 had I gone there and been successful, so I'll try to answer both as best I can.

It's always been a goal of mine to play D1. I want to play at the highest possible level I can. I made the plan to shoot big early on, but then slowly narrowed down my real options. D1 is very competitive and I didn't cut it the first time around. My D2 options were also quite narrow. I realized this around the beginning of my senior year.

There is actually a local D2 that is wildly successful and my goal is to end up there after my two years are up. I would like to at least develop the skill set of a D1 catcher though and let the chips fall in to place from there. I would no doubt entertain D1 if it was the right fit. I like the idea of having more options though, which is why JuCo was my choice. I may still end up at the D3 after all, but hopefully my options are broader after JuCo. I would not have gone to the D3 originally though with an intention to hopefully transfer. I hope this answers your question.

quote:

Originally posted by wogdoggy:
My son is being recruited by several small d3 schools and hasnt really decided which is the best fit both academically and for baseball.If I get my fasfra and ducks in order by january 1st including all admission paperwork...does it hurt me to continue to wait? Although he has several coaches wanting him now,would it hurt to continue to wait? what about waiting EVEN longer all the way into the HS season to see if better comes along? My son continues to get better and bigger every year..would it hurt him to sit tight? any help would be appreciated.

By "better", do you mean more money?
Or is there a particular school that he wants to hear from?

It could be just the typical indecision and uncertainty that all 17 year olds have when they finally realize that this decision is for the next 4 years, not just what they are going to do this weekend.

If he still wants to look, is it for the right fit, or for the possibility of being offered by a D2 or D1?
If so, keep looking, work out hard, go to camps and contact all of the schools that he would consider.

If you both truly believe that a D3 is the right place for him, then I would have him do some research and determine what is his "dream" school or schools.

If those schools are not on the current list of interested schools, then contact those schools immediately and let them know that you are ready to make a decision.

D3 Coaches usually have more academic $$ to work with now than they will in May.

They also like to get commitments from high-profile players early so they can tout that to future recruits. That will be in your Son's best interest in terms of what type of talent the school can put together for the next 4 seasons.
There have been several posts on here about how to put together a list of criteria, rank them and then narrow it down.

Either way, best of luck to you, your Son and your family!

Thanks, Barnes!

Question for anyone out there. A kid finds a D3 he likes and wants to go to. His dream is to play D1 and end up in Omaha, but he's not there yet. How risky is it to go the D3 route and transfer to a D1 later should that development happen?

quote:

D3 Coaches usually have more academic $$ to work with now than they will in May.

gitnby,
I am not quite sure what that might mean or convey.
I read it to say D3 coaches can control or be involved in the decisions of baseball players getting academic money and how much.
I don't believe that is permitted. My understanding is D3 coaches cannot be involved or even input on which athletes can be offered academic money or even how much might be offered.
I am not saying it might not be happening.
For D3, the coaches we know really have not even started the focused recruiting yet. They are waiting until the NLI approaches to see which potential recruits drop through the DI net, have DI skills but won't be signing an NLI and can be the focus for their recruiting efforts.
These are nationally ranked baseball programs with top academics.

quote:

Originally posted by Tx-Husker:
Thanks, Barnes!

Question for anyone out there. A kid finds a D3 he likes and wants to go to. His dream is to play D1 and end up in Omaha, but he's not there yet. How risky is it to go the D3 route and transfer to a D1 later should that development happen?

There is plenty of risk. These might include risky in terms of sitting out one year, risky in terms of actually being able to transfer, risky in terms of getting DI playing time, risky in terms of losing academic credits, getting athletic money or all or some of the above.
My understanding, subject to 3FG review, is that a player recruited to a D3 is now subject to the one year sit rule if he then transfers to a DI.
Chances are he will lose a considerable number of academic credits and be looking at a 5th year, or more, of college.
Before the one year sit rule, there were plenty of D3 players found in Summer leagues who transferred. Ours had that option after both his sophomore and junior years. I know one very good pitcher who lit up the Cape and transferred from a D3 in Maine to LSU(now on a MLB staff.)
Three years ago, two of the top hitters at a Big West school were both transfers from D3 programs and the Friday pitcher the previous year, for that same school, was also a D3 transfer.
Bottom line would suggest there is plenty of DI talent at the D3 level.
It does look like the one year sit rule has significantly slowed the transfer to DI option.
I have not checked this in a few years but the NCAA also had a rule that a D3 could not transfer to a DI and receive athletic $$$$ for their first year of baseball eligibility.

"If I get my fasfra and ducks in order by january 1st including all admission paperwork"


Hi - this is a good thread, thanks.

I just want to chime in with my college admission hat here. You may know this, but many of the private schools will also want the CSS Profile form in addition to FAFSA. Start gathering all your info and sign up for your FAFSA and Profile PIN in November.

And you probably meant this in your 'admissions paperwork by January' statement but be sure he is working on his applications now, to get them submitted to guidance early. Typically the sooner the better in terms of an admissions process, esp with EA and rolling. So for January 1 deadlines target getting it all done by Thanksgiving. For EA deadlines in mid Nov., target getting it all done by mid / late October.

Some colleges and universities have priority deadlines for merit scholarship consideration, also, so later apps will miss that boat.

Good luck.

quote:

There is actually a local D2 that is wildly successful and my goal is to end up there after my two years are up. I would like to at least develop the skill set of a D1 catcher though and let the chips fall in to place from there. I would no doubt entertain D1 if it was the right fit. I like the idea of having more options though, which is why JuCo was my choice. I may still end up at the D3 after all, but hopefully my options are broader after JuCo.

barnes, your posting and thoughts are very, very impressive. I am sure your parents appreciated the efforts and thoughtful approach, including the decision on saving money in this very tough economic time.
I did want to comment on your thoughts which I extracted above.
First, my impression is every, good, competitive baseball player measures themselves against the letter and number "DI." It carries the mystique. It seems to be the measuring stick. In fact, I recently read a college publication which commented that, for parents and players alike, being able to have the immediate satisfaction of the NLI and "publicity" of a scholarship was/is a major attraction of a college. Place DI in front of each and the attraction is clear.
Now, some reality looking back.
After we get outside the top 50-70 or so college baseball programs, the level of talent and skill and competition isn't measurably different or better than the top D3 programs.
More importantly,being at other than the those top DI programs does not mean you receive the best coaching and certainly should not provide a reassurance you will be coached to realize your very best talent level or to achieve the "nebulous" skill set of a DI catcher.
D2 and D3 have many who coach at the highest levels of college baseball, both in terms of their knowledge of the game as well as their ability to coach players to get to, or at least close to, a players highest level of using their talents at the maximum level.
Too often I believe we end up looking at the level, not the level of coaching that exists at the level.
There are very, very good reasons that top D3 programs are always at the top. They are coached by some of the very, very top coaches at any level of college baseball.
As you matriculate to the next level, I would encourage you to look beyond the "letter and number" of the classification If you want to get the very best from your skills on a baseball field, place the major emphasis on finding the coaching staff for whom you "will" play and who have the skills, talent and ability to develop and coach you to your highest level.
I know from experience there are D3 coaches developing their players to compete with the skills of DI players.

My son decided in late July following his senior year. You all have plenty of time.

If he really wants to go to the school in question, and it has all the majors he might be interested in, then there is no harm in committing now.

I would make sure to thoroughly check out whether or not the coach in question doesn't over recruit. If he's got a roster of 40 or 50 guys, I'd be cautious.

Thanks, infieldad...I knew of most of the risks you describe but the any 4 year to another 4 year must sit out risk was new to me. Glad I asked.

Tx,
One point of clarification and we might be saying the same thing.
A D3 player can transfer to a D2 without the one year sit applying.
However, a transfer from a D3(or any 4 year as I understand it) to D1, where the player was recruited by the D3 and/or 4 year, does involve the one year sit/ineligible rule...subject to 3FG input.

We're saying the same thing, IFD. Maybe there's a scenario where D3 to D2 would make sense, but I certainly wasn't thinking of that route. D3 to D1 was the path I was thinking and what you addressed. Appreciate it!

infielddad is correct: a player who was recruited to a 4 year school and transferred to a D1 would have to serve a year in residence before being eligible to compete.

This doesn't just apply to D3 players. Here's the rule:
14.5.5.2.10.2 Nonrecruited Student. A student-athlete who does not qualify for the exception due to Bylaw 14.5.5.2.10-(a) may use the one-time transfer exception, provided he or she was not recruited by the original four-year institution and has never received institutional athletically related financial aid from any four-year institution.

This means that the transfer can be from any 4 year school. I suspect that it is easier for an unrecruited player to get playing time if he is at a (some, not all) D3 achool. Without previous college playing time, a transfer probably wouldn't get an opportunity to make the squad at most D1 schools. So I guess this unrecruited scenario is more likely if the player is coming from a D3. Also, D3 has a relaxed attitude to recording recruiting contacts, and speaking practically, there may not be a record that shows a particular player was recruited. We know that some schools will bend the rules, and probably many people would see little ethical conflict for a D3 transfer to avoid the sitout year.

Thanks infielddad. Your advice is very informational and well taken!

Wogdog:

My son committed to a top D3 in May and he's never looked back. The one thing I'd be clear on is how much help your son will get with admissions if he is not prepared to commit right away.

The currency in the D1 world is baseball money. In the D3 world the currency is admissions. The coach has the most leverage with admissions early in the process (ED). He also gets some leverage late, after the class has formed and the school knows how many athletic commits will be registering. In the middle your chances go down. At the top academic schools, there are very few late commits, but it still happens. If it does happen, the coach knows he has a lot of leverage with admissions because of special circumstances.

quote:

Originally posted by infielddad:

quote:

D3 Coaches usually have more academic $$ to work with now than they will in May.

gitnby,
I am not quite sure what that might mean or convey.
I read it to say D3 coaches can control or be involved in the decisions of baseball players getting academic money and how much.
I don't believe that is permitted. My understanding is D3 coaches cannot be involved or even input on which athletes can be offered academic money or even how much might be offered.
I am not saying it might not be happening.
For D3, the coaches we know really have not even started the focused recruiting yet. They are waiting until the NLI approaches to see which potential recruits drop through the DI net, have DI skills but won't be signing an NLI and can be the focus for their recruiting efforts.
These are nationally ranked baseball programs with top academics.

You read it exactly how I meant it.

Of course, it is not permitted.

We would be naive to think that it does not happen?

gitnby,
While I posted that I could not say it isn't happening, as you describe, which would be a clear, seemingly deliberate, and blatant violation for D3's, my comment should not be interpreted to suggest I think that is happening as you proposed: a D3 coach having access to academic money, being able to allocate and offer the money to prospective baseball players and it happening at this point so that the academic(baseball) money would not be available in May or later.
Sure I would agree that would be true at D1 and D2.
What you are suggesting is occurring is the antithesis of D3.

While it is not condoned or promoted, it does happen to some degree.

Sufficient to say that even a non-athlete has access to more available academic money now as opposed to in the Spring.

Many of the available academic scholarships have quotas and time-based cut-offs.

A good D3 Coach knows that, and will help guide a player in his quest for the available funds.

Maybe that's a better way to state my point?

In our case, most of the schools we are looking at at all divisions have regular decisions are in January. Is that too late? Having to explore all options is a priority at this time as previously advised in most threads and also with the blog talk last night.

Why not apply to the school now to get the admission decision and scholarship decisions from the school then make your final decision later?

Tx-Husker,

We are still visiting schools but definitely would also consider early decision if we find the right fit. Early decision is binding although you can get out of it if the financial package won't work out at least from what we have researched and read in the hsbbweb.

I wasn't suggesting early decision.

RR,
I respect the efforts you are extending to support your son. From what I can read, your son sounds like a quality student/athlete, the type that many schools and many programs want to attract.
Congratulations.
As you are finding, this can be a difficult, but exciting, process.
Here are some suggestions from one perspective.
The DI NLI deadline is fast approaching next month.
The NLI is the very first driver of a decision for your son.
If he is offered, then he and you will need to decide if it is the "fit" academically, for baseball, for coaching, for his educational goals(to the extent they are defined at his point) and socially. If you have an NLI and fit, nothing after November matters all that much.
If the NLI and fit isn't forthcoming, then I agree with Tx. Apply to the schools where there is interest in your son and where your son feels he has interest.
If an NLI is not done next month, expect the level of DIII interest to increase...perhaps a lot.
Should an NLI not be in the cards, your son then has until late April/early May to make further decisions, provided he has applied and been admitted, although some schools like Trinity do not announce regular admission until April or so.
Also know that if a school/coach identifies your son after the admissions deadline, many schools will still provide an exception to apply.
Finally, if your son does head the DIII route and deposit in the Spring, it is amazing the number of DI options which might open to him. As you know, that happened for our son in the Summer following his HS senior year and every Summer after that. He chose DIII but those options can open and some choose them and some don't.
As far as ED, it can be very helpful if it is your son's dream school, one he has visited, met the coaches and team, been to classes, etc and remains his major focus.

Great Summary Infield Dad.

Tx-Husker are you talking about early action? My son was encouraged to apply early action which provides an admission decision and in late November and Financial packages in February id FAFSA's etc.

Most of the schools used the Common APP or allowed him to apply online at no cost.

He then was able to use those to make his decision, which did not happen till May.

quote:

Tx-Husker are you talking about early action?

I'm not really sure. But it seems like a lot of the D3s we've been looking at do have a quick on line app process, seem to have rolling admission decisions, and promise quick merit scholarship decisios. It doesn't appear any "commitment" other than the application itself is required from the student to make all that happen.

My thought is if you are interested in the school academically and like the baseball there, what better message to send the coach you're serious than to say I've already applied and been accepted?

Tx-Husker,

Thanks for clearing that up and thanks IF Dad for more information. Definitely will apply to maybe top 10 schools pretty soon after NLI Date. We will be done with almost all visits before the AZ Senior Fall Classic. Son just dropped off all required materials to his counselling office for counsellor's LOR, Teacher's LOR, Brag sheet, college essay. Will now apply thru common app. Definitely an exciting time for a college senior.

This is probably old news for many, but might be helpful....Here are the main admission/decision options:

EARLY DECISION: Typically the app is due 11/15, and a decision of acceptance, denial or deferral is sent mid-December. Some schools also offer a second round of Early Decision, called ED II, which typically has an app deadline of 1/1 and acceptance, denial or deferral is sent end of January. The ED application is accompanied by an ED contract, signed by the student, parents and HS counselor. An enrollment deposit is due usually 2/15. You can get out of the ED contract, and decline admission based upon inability of the school to meet your "needs-based" financial need. Any other excuse to decline an ED acceptance is really pretty poor form (of course excluding an extraordinary circumstance of some sort), for instance, accepting, sending a deposit, then subsequently backing out and forfeiting your deposit and enrolling somewhere else.

EARLY ACTION: This is a non-binding application, typically due in the 11/1 to 11/15 range. Some schools also offer a second EA period. Many schools that offer ED do not offer EA, and vice versa, however some offer both. Applicants receive a acceptance, denial, deferral typically before Christmas break. Additionally, some schools are now offering a "short-form" application (no essays, for instance) that is wrapped into an EA decision time frame. In our son's case it appeared these were schools that received SAT/AP data from The College Board, and they target students that fall within the upper 25% of the admissions/class profile. An Early Action applicant has until 5/1 to accept/decline an offer of admission. EA is often suggested as an excellent avenue to gain an early admission decision from a solid "safety net" choice, in other words, get a good one"in the bag" while the student pursues "stretch schools."

REGULAR DECISION: The app is due anywhere from 1/1 to early Feb. and decisions are sent in April. The student has until 5/1 to accept an offer of admission.

Of course, there are instances with athletic recruits where admission can be gained after 5/1.

ROLLING ADMISSIONS: I believe decisions are made sequentially as applications are received? I know this is a policy for some schools, we never came across it though.

Isn't it also possible for a D3 coach to tell you he has a roster spot for you but to withdraw that guarantee if you don't decide to enroll within say 10 days?

Or would you assume that if he says he has a roster spot for you, he will no matter what?

I know there is not athletic money at stake, but if a goal of going to that school is to play ball, how do you handle deferring the decision as long as possible?

quote:

Originally posted by RedSoxFan21:
Isn't it also possible for a D3 coach to tell you he has a roster spot for you but to withdraw that guarantee if you don't decide to enroll within say 10 days?

Or would you assume that if he says he has a roster spot for you, he will no matter what?

I know there is not athletic money at stake, but if a goal of going to that school is to play ball, how do you handle deferring the decision as long as possible?

I guess they can say anything they want to.I'm sure they want commitments so they can try to put their team together BUT I wouldnt let a coach or baseball FORCE a academic decision you may regret.Just because they recruit him and tell you theres a roster spot doesnt mean he is going to play.Ask the coach what he likes about your son and where do you think he will fit in his freshman year? JV? Varsity?Sometimes it might be in your son's best interest to get JV time than minimal varsity play.Asl the coach where he fits and most importantly ask him his teams 4 year grad rate and gpa..academics first IF baseball happens then it does.

There are all kinds of possibilities, but it was my experience that D3 coaches are very helpful with prospective players. Due to the nature of D3 recruiting they are not in a position to be offering and pulling roster spots. Most are looking for high academic D1 players or "tweeners", or D1 players that for whatever reason have fallen between the cracks. If you are in any of those categories they are not going to demand anything.

In the end you have to perform on the field and all the discussion about roster spots really does not matter once the season comes around. The best 25 are going to be on the travel squad. The rest will be trying to get better to get there.

My son is a sophomore at a D-3 school now. He was recruited & committed early. His senior year was by far his best and i think it was in part because he wasnt worried about any showcases, recruiting, visits, etc. He had everything already lined up & could relax & just play. Everybody is different but it worked for him.