D3: Good overall fit but less prestigious academics vs. elite academic school?

It not how talented the other students are. It’s can he handle the workload?  Also, what is the more prestigious academic school going to do for him when he graduates?

Has he visited any while school is in session?  I know it's really hard for you to do that; can the coaches put him in touch with players, at least, so he can talk to them?  Do virtual tours of campuses?

What do his brothers say? (o.k., I've got 3 sons too, and I know that would be pretty useless - but I had to say it).

Are there clear differences in part of the country, city vs. country, etc. that he particularly likes?

Go with his gut.

I'm of the belief that most good students would do fine even at the most rigorous HA schools.  The hard part is getting in.  It's equally hard to finish at the top.  But any decent student can grind through with Bs and Cs.  In many cases that is better than finishing at the top of a lesser school.  The bottom quartile at Harvard still gets a degree from Harvard.

I think only you and your son can truly answer this question. My 2022 was faced with the same choice and ultimately took the HA route. School he committed to was a bit of a stretch, but not too much, so he's not getting nearly the grant money that he would have gotten from the less academic/better baseball school. I bit my tongue...hard...but let him make his choice.

IMHO it really does depend a lot on your sons priorities. If you can get to the WHY he doesn’t want to decide yet I think it would help. My daughter, who plays basketball, decided she wanted to be stretched and challenged academically but going Ivy wasn’t a priority; she wanted to go somewhere where they played at the highest level athletically. Once she was clear on that it made her decision substantially easier. She’s at a very high academic P5. They made it to the second round of the NCAA tournament last year and likely would have had an even deeper run the year it was cancelled from COVID.

My son was a different story. Recognizing the demands of baseball, he actively chose schools where he felt he could easily handle the academic load. As the nerd momma it was hard for me to let go of some of the more academically rigorous schools that were recruiting him but in hindsight, where he chose probably would have been perfect for him. Ask open ended questions. Listen and hopefully your son’s responses will help make the decision clear.

@Smitty28 posted:

I'm of the belief that most good students would do fine even at the most rigorous HA schools.  The hard part is getting in.  It's equally hard to finish at the top.  But any decent student can grind through with Bs and Cs.  In many cases that is better than finishing at the top of a lesser school.  The bottom quartile at Harvard still gets a degree from Harvard.

^^^ this ^^^

@Smitty28 posted:

I'm of the belief that most good students would do fine even at the most rigorous HA schools.  The hard part is getting in.  It's equally hard to finish at the top.  But any decent student can grind through with Bs and Cs.  In many cases that is better than finishing at the top of a lesser school.  The bottom quartile at Harvard still gets a degree from Harvard.

Agree with Smitty28.

I'll add the differentiator can be the academic major which hasn't been mentioned.  My son was guilty of going to a better engineering school than possibly a slightly more prestigious school overall.   It didn't bother him one bit.  The devil is always in the details.

I’ll echo what @PTWood said. He needs to get at the “why”. Ideally, your son should be excited about an offer, and if it was his top choice there wouldn’t be any hesitancy. So obviously he thinks there is the possibility of something better. What is that?

If his concern is that he isn’t smart enough for the better HA school, I would assure him that those types of school do not admit students that they don’t believe in. They are extremely protective of their graduation and success rates.

If he thinks another school would be “easier”, you can remind him of the 4/40 rule, but ultimately he’s choosing between multiple great options and this is mostly his decision. It’s very unlikely that any of those options will turn out to be a bad decision, and he’ll be fine if he passes on this offer.

So much good PARENTING advice above. You def have to get to the root of his indecision.

Can you try to get a little extra time by scheduling a visit to the HA a little later in September? You have to come a long way, he might understand.  I would normally agree with Smitty and JCG about going with the best pedigree, EXCEPT if he plans to do something where a graduate degree is in order.  Applying to grad school with a 2.5 is like baseball recruiting with an 82mph fastball even with an elite school's name at the top of the transcript. And grinding both in baseball and in school to get a decent class rank might make life unpleasant for four years. Unless he enjoys the grind itself, he has 40 years to do that.

Ultimately you have to know your kid and his personality.  If you think he is comfortable with the intensity of the more academic schools, then encourage him to go!  My best friend has a non-baseball playing kid same age (sometimes I forget those exist), he and Lefty have grown up together. He is a National Merit Scholar, 35ACT, all APs and two B+ on his transcripts, with a carefully crafted (by mom) list of extra curriculars.  In other words a viable candidate at most prestigious schools, but he won't be applying to them.  He wants to enjoy his college experience and the intensity at some of these schools is a total turnoff to him.  So he will likely head to a "good" school that is less prestigious and have a lovely college experience.

We often talk about 4 for 40 here, using 4 years of baseball to set you up for a 40year career.  Don't forget to consider how graduating from "X" university will be a help (or hindered) as Cade tries to get internships, grad school, or a job with whatever network each of these schools has.  

I wonder if you might get some extra insight into why he won't pull the trigger if you were to ask him what HE thinks your older two should have done differently? some insight into what he's trying to avoid...

Also, you have raised THREE wildly successful kids!  Kudos!

I think the social aspect of the baseball team matters a lot in these situations.  Your son is probably (ask his brothers) going to spend a lot of time with his teammates; does their attitude to baseball and school match his?  If he can't actually meet them, he can look at their majors, try to get a sense of what they're doing in the summers, etc.

How much does his baseball experience matter to him?  Does he just want to be on a team, or does he want to play a lot?  Is there a difference between the schools in that sense?

Your son is going to spent most if not virtually all of his time with his teammates would be what have seen.

Are these all east coast schools? Did your youngest make the trip out east to see his bros? I think seeing the brick and mortars as well as touring the hood is also important in making a decisions.

Son used baseball to get into a high academic D1 that he *probably* wouldn't have gotten into otherwise. 

This school has a high rate of student suicides and I didn't pressure him with his grades in any way.   The coach took care of that.   He was not a top 5% student going in, and the goal was to just stay eligible through the NCAA and the school.   Yes, his friends were all baseball players (and the hockey players that lived next door and they ranged from the very brilliant to those that were on academic probation.  Having mandatory study hall for freshmen was key.

Finishing the degree during Covid, on MLB's dime, was icing on the cake.

Personally, I am hoping his baseball players friends with all the good cool good-paying jobs will be in a position to hire him when the time comes.

@smokeminside posted:

...but one is clearly, to him, above the others academically ... But he doesn't want to decide yet.

The other offers are ...more natural fits.

Wow, tremendous amount of insight and great advice on this thread!

Smoke, these few things above stood out to me from your post.  Only you and he can connect the dots and I'm sure I am over-simplifying but...  he will most likely flourish where he is most bought in himself.

Smoke - congrats, you've got very talented kids!! Good problem to have. That said, my overriding guiding thoughts are:

1. Go where you'd be happy if baseball weren't in the picture for whatever reason

2. Go where I won't have to eat cat food in retirement (just kidding...sort of). No, seriously, the other is go where you will play. It's no fun to sit the bench.

Obviously there's lots of variables in play, but I've found those two criteria help to guide good decisions.

Caltech is all that but they have the worst webcast set up in the SCIAC. You would think all those geniuses could figure something out.

@JCG posted:

Caltech is all that but they have the worst webcast set up in the SCIAC. You would think all those geniuses could figure something out.

Yeah this was my feeling with the Ivy league cancelling baseball for almost two whole seasons.

I don't know the details of the situation, but I would say that once you leave the Ivy League and a handful of top tier academic institutions (Duke, UVA, Williams, Berk, etc) the name on the degree doesn't matter all that much unless he is planning to specialize in something or is entering a field that recruits from target schools (investment banking).

This next part is not supposed to be a knock in any way shape or form, but I also believe that if there is no scholarship money involved the decision should be made based on factors outside of baseball. Majors, location, weather, school size, frats vs no frats, 4 years of dorms vs 1 year, city vs suburb, etc. And most importantly...cost.

Unless there is a massive gap in the baseball programs (NCAA Tournament hopeful vs 4-26) then sure that should absolutely be a factor. But don't choose the 25-15 program over the 19-17 program if the latter is better in every other category.

See what your son wants.

Personally, I think school is the same everywhere. I can't imagine Calculus being any different at a HA vs a state school vs a juco. Half of college is all nonsense gen ed courses that everybody has to take. There is nothing special about the education itself. It has already been mentioned, but the hard part is getting in, after that it's all the same anyway. Your kid will learn more in social settings than he ever will in a classroom anyway.

@Ripken Fan posted:

Yeah this was my feeling with the Ivy league cancelling baseball for almost two whole seasons.

hardee hardee har.  

@PABaseball posted:

Personally, I think school is the same everywhere. I can't imagine Calculus being any different at a HA vs a state school vs a juco. Half of college is all nonsense gen ed courses that everybody has to take. There is nothing special about the education itself. It has already been mentioned, but the hard part is getting in, after that it's all the same anyway. Your kid will learn more in social settings than he ever will in a classroom anyway.

Agree with everything you wrote and especially the last sentence.  However, I think that you left something out.  It is because kids will learn more in social settings that the school that they go to actually will matter.  Calculus is calculus everywhere, but the peers that your son/daughter will encounter and be shaped by can vary greatly school to school.  Not saying that the peers at one school are better or worse than those at another...just that they are different and the  difference is something to consider when choosing a school.

@K9 posted:

Agree with everything you wrote and especially the last sentence.  However, I think that you left something out.  It is because kids will learn more in social settings that the school that they go to actually will matter.  Calculus is calculus everywhere, but the peers that your son/daughter will encounter and be shaped by can vary greatly school to school.  Not saying that the peers at one school are better or worse than those at another...just that they are different and the  difference is something to consider when choosing a school.

Spot on

My 2021 kid just started out at a HA D3 this month. It’s a great fit for him socially and in terms of baseball, as well as academically. In a lot of ways though, he’s surrounded by an entire roster of teammates who are for the most part at least more experienced at high academic pursuits, and some of them are just purely  more advanced than him Academically.

for our kid though, that seems like a great fit, too, because it keeps him on top of things and motivated with keeping up with the schoolwork. The culture of the team seems in part focused not just on winning at baseball, (They did play in the conference championship last season) but in getting great grades and really learning. That type of peer pressure, even if just by example, from older teammates is really beneficial (For my son at least.)

They don’t have a study table, for instance. Nor do they have a mandatory study hall. As the coach told him during his recruiting visit “all the players here are serious about their studies, they don’t need a study table”.

And of course, that’s just the first impressions I’m getting, as he’s just starting out

So many good nuggets in this thread. Thank you to all. My sons #1 goal is to eventually be drafted and play in the MLB (I know the likelihood of this is incredibly slim but do not want to tell him to stop working/striving to achieve that dream...yet). Academics definitely matter to him personally and in his college choice but some doors are now closing/closed due to the portal along with everyone getting a covid year and the ability to play a 5th. HA schools like Richmond, Georgetown, and others are loading up on 5th years and who can blame them when those schools are trying to win (more).

@3and2Fastball posted:

My 2021 kid just started out at a HA D3 this month. It’s a great fit for him socially and in terms of baseball, as well as academically. In a lot of ways though, he’s surrounded by an entire roster of teammates who are for the most part at least more experienced at high academic pursuits, and some of them are just purely  more advanced than him Academically.

for our kid though, that seems like a great fit, too, because it keeps him on top of things and motivated with keeping up with the schoolwork. The culture of the team seems in part focused not just on winning at baseball, (They did play in the conference championship last season) but in getting great grades and really learning. That type of peer pressure, even if just by example, from older teammates is really beneficial (For my son at least.)

They don’t have a study table, for instance. Nor do they have a mandatory study hall. As the coach told him during his recruiting visit “all the players here are serious about their studies, they don’t need a study table”.

And of course, that’s just the first impressions I’m getting, as he’s just starting out

@3and2Fastball great story, one which I (and son) can relate. Over an over we heard about how important teammates are (you spend much time with them), along with the "40 year" commitment to a school and the environment with which you speak. In the end, the academic piece won out for son, when weighing between two offers (Big State U, ranked team vs HA D1). The locker room at the former had a big sofa with play stations and other gaming devises.  The HA D1 locker room had WiFi with work stations (tables).

Love it @3and2Fastball! Classic case of paying attention to what your son needed most!