Has anybody had any luck with Mills program with Velocity? My son does not seem to be throwing and harder over the last year.
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I have used it loosely, and doing some basic strength training and tubing every time I throw, along with medicine ball drills in his book, I've gone from 67-79 in 10 months. So I would not follow it verbatim, but it is a good guideline. Also, where in NJ are you? And welcome to the boards.
NJ Pitch
NJ Pitch
I've been hearing from other parents that have tried his course say the same thing about the mills course that it has not helped there son's throw faster but they throw slow but have control.
I have his Ultimate Strength and Conditioning Guide, and if your son is doing nothing, then this is better than nothing. If he is on his own workout routine, then maybe you don't need this. However, I would ask the parents of the kids who say their kids got slower but more control how much the kids worked out, if ever. It takes work, buying a book by itself won't gain velocity and/or control.
NJ Pitch
NJ Pitch
I didn't find his pitching material very helpfull. Matter of faxt I think in many ways it has been a determent because it stress's control over Velo. And the most important thing on a scouts list for pitchers is velocity, movement, control and pitches, in that order and don't let anybody tell you otherwise!
Dick Mills course just does not get the job done in my opinion.
Dick Mills course just does not get the job done in my opinion.
My son has found that all the velocity in the world doesn't make you a better pitcher unless you can hit spots, and change whatever speed you have attained.
We have Mr. Mill's program and its great. Machnics is everything to the life of a pitcher. What good is velocity if you can not control it or it stresses the shoulder or elbow too much?
What Mr. Mill's program stresses is proper mechnics and building core strength. I have seen major improvments in my son's pitching since investing in his program. There are no quick solutions in building a quality pitcher. Here is what we have accomplished:
1. Great improvement in control
2. Steady improvement in velocity
3. Body parts that are not in pain.
You wouldn't believe the number of pitchers on our HS team that complain constantly about their elbows and shoulders after pitching a normal game. My son rarely if ever has pain.
I give Mr. Mills program 2 thumbs up!
What Mr. Mill's program stresses is proper mechnics and building core strength. I have seen major improvments in my son's pitching since investing in his program. There are no quick solutions in building a quality pitcher. Here is what we have accomplished:
1. Great improvement in control
2. Steady improvement in velocity
3. Body parts that are not in pain.
You wouldn't believe the number of pitchers on our HS team that complain constantly about their elbows and shoulders after pitching a normal game. My son rarely if ever has pain.
I give Mr. Mills program 2 thumbs up!
GABall,
Just curious... What is your son's age and velocity?
Jason
Just curious... What is your son's age and velocity?
Jason
If you want to maximize your potential, Dick is not your answer. If you want to throw strikes, right now, and are not concerned about maximizing velocity, movement AND control together, then Dick may be your man. Although you will have to work hard paying attention to the website to keep up with all the changes he has made to his advice since he made his tapes. Good luck. Let me know if you want further thoughts.
NPHS,
Please don't blame a lack of velocity improvement on some video tapes or programs you have tried to follow. Perhaps these parents could not
If you lay your future into learning from video tapes, you will more than likely fail. Get a good instructor. A trained set of eyes will help you make an improvement.
Disclaimer: I do not like Dick Mills. I think these gurus are just in it to sell tapes.
Please don't blame a lack of velocity improvement on some video tapes or programs you have tried to follow. Perhaps these parents could not
If you lay your future into learning from video tapes, you will more than likely fail. Get a good instructor. A trained set of eyes will help you make an improvement.
Disclaimer: I do not like Dick Mills. I think these gurus are just in it to sell tapes.
Perhaps you could offer him some guidance on how he will he know when he has picked out a good instructor vs a bad instructor?
Flippj
My son is 16 and throws 78. Ocassionaly he will hit 80. He made varsity this year as a sophmore at a 5A school.
Don't get me wrong, we have a long way to go.
My son is 16 and throws 78. Ocassionaly he will hit 80. He made varsity this year as a sophmore at a 5A school.
Don't get me wrong, we have a long way to go.
quote:
Disclaimer: I do not like Dick Mills. I think these gurus are just in it to sell tapes.
AMEN!
NPHS, I have to question why you started this topic in the first place. I am not an avid supporter of Dick Mill's, but you came in asking if anyone has had success with his program, and from then on all you are doing is finding reasons to bash him.
BTW, I find it difficult to believe that your son has LOST velocity by working out. And the basic Dick Mills training is universally accepted: Tubing is major, core strength, medicine ball, nothing that would slow down your sons arm speed. May I ask his age and velocity, former and current?
NJ Pitch
BTW, I find it difficult to believe that your son has LOST velocity by working out. And the basic Dick Mills training is universally accepted: Tubing is major, core strength, medicine ball, nothing that would slow down your sons arm speed. May I ask his age and velocity, former and current?
NJ Pitch
quote:
Originally posted by Mark H:
If you want to maximize your potential, Dick is not your answer. If you want to throw strikes, right now, and are not concerned about maximizing velocity, movement AND control together, then Dick may be your man. Although you will have to work hard paying attention to the website to keep up with all the changes he has made to his advice since he made his tapes. Good luck. Let me know if you want further thoughts.
Mark, Yours is a very strange post. You say that if you want to throw strikes right now, that Mills may be the man. If he can help a young pitcher throw strikes right now, what is the problem? Maybe you can tell us how to 1. attain more velocity, 2. gain more movement 3.have better control, and 4. how to do all three at once. If you think it comes on a web site, it would be obvious to me that you never pitched beyond youth baseball. Hammering on Mills won't make your guru a better pitching .......or as he cops out to......throwing coach.
quote:
Originally posted by Mark H:
Perhaps you could offer him some guidance on how he will he know when he has picked out a good instructor vs a bad instructor?
If you want a good instructor, tape a game that Greg Maddux pitches in and then copy his mechanics. It will save money and you won't have to listen to the nonsense on the various internet sites.
Pops,
You say my post is strange but then you display a good grasp of my intent. Hmmm. If you don't like the "throwing" coach (and I'm not sure why that's a "cop out"), try Ron Wolforth. You can go to him as a classic instructor instead of just buying his tapes if you prefer. Bottom line is, Mills can teach you to throw strikes. He can't teach you to maximize your velocity, control, movement and location IMHO. As they say, your mileage may vary.
P.S. Fair warning, Wolforth was significantly influenced by the "throwing coach".
You say my post is strange but then you display a good grasp of my intent. Hmmm. If you don't like the "throwing" coach (and I'm not sure why that's a "cop out"), try Ron Wolforth. You can go to him as a classic instructor instead of just buying his tapes if you prefer. Bottom line is, Mills can teach you to throw strikes. He can't teach you to maximize your velocity, control, movement and location IMHO. As they say, your mileage may vary.
P.S. Fair warning, Wolforth was significantly influenced by the "throwing coach".
Gentleman, I belive all thats said about this post is concurrent to ones believe and interpretation and is all good, one statement stood out, without any personal enteraction phyically, on a regular routine, in understanding the mental aspects of tapes,books internet tips, this point really is useless. I respect all individuals who can implement themselves in a way that they know will fall under scurtiny. As they say, you can throw the ball but you don't have to catch it. Thanks Gentlemen.
Frankly all the programs lack something. You cannot learn by tapes and books alone. You must have a qualified instructor. I get information wherever I can. I would not use Dick Mills information past 10th grade in my opinion. At that point you had better go to the throwing coach or Ron Woolforth if you want to maximize velocity. The high c0cked positin is not conducive to velocity at higher levels and in my opinion leads to arm (shoulder) problems. I believe that Ron Woolforth's backshaping program is logical next step. Yes it is heavily influenced by Setpr0. All of this needs to done while using an instructor that buys into the programs you want to use. Now that is the real obstacle to try to overcome.
the Florida Bombers
"I love the HSBBW"
the Florida Bombers
"I love the HSBBW"
How about "buying" into what your "real life" instructor teaches you ??
In my book you find the live instructor you are comfortable with , "buy" into his philosophy and work hard with him
TRhit
In my book you find the live instructor you are comfortable with , "buy" into his philosophy and work hard with him
TRhit
quote:
How about "buying" into what your "real life" instructor teaches you ??
In my book you find the live instructor you are comfortable with , "buy" into his philosophy and work hard with him
That is fine if you have no knowledge of what you want to accomplish. Then you have to place your future in someone else's hands.
I prefer to have some knowledge of what I want to accomplish and find an instructor that fits my needs. Otherwise it is very easy to end up with any one of many incompetent instructors or with teaching methods that may or may not be conducive with your body type, etc. A good example would be if a guy was a short lefty junk pitcher and your son is a righty tall power pitcher, you better make sure that he teaches mechanics conducive with your son's body type.
I am not going to buy into what an instructor teaches if it is contradictory to what my son does. I have seen instructors that feel the need to cookie cutter kids and do not work with the kids natural gifts. It would not be smart to buy into that sell.
Blindly buying into what someone else is selling without doing your homework is not very smart.
You don't blindly trust someone. That trust must be earned and deserved. One instructor is not for everyone. Just because you know some that you respect doesn't make them riht for me. I prefer to do my research and homework.
the Florida Bombers
"I love the HSBBW"
new at this, bought dick mills 2 years back, my son has gained control and velocity. Don't know if its from his videos or not but I was a Dad that my son wanted to pitch, tried going to camps, 2 days 20 pitches, joke... then took him to a few so called pitching coaches for $35 for a half hour. That got expensive. What the videos did for me was turn me into a person that can recognize what a good delivery can look like. Now my son can just about fix what he's doing wrong during a game by himself, which to me is important. I also agree that Dick has changed his thinking a few times through the course of a few years, so I just go with I feel is working for my son. Its better than throwing money to the so called pitching instructors. If you want to know , my son is 16 years old , just radared last Sunday at 85 mph , charted with 32 out 50 locations.Then he threw another 30 pitches and radared again and only lost 2 mph. No arm pain. Legs were hurting, so I think what Dick is teaching is working for my Son
quote:
Originally posted by Mark H:
Pops,
You say my post is strange but then you display a good grasp of my intent. Hmmm. If you don't like the "throwing" coach (and I'm not sure why that's a "cop out"), try Ron Wolforth. You can go to him as a classic instructor instead of just buying his tapes if you prefer. Bottom line is, Mills can teach you to throw strikes. He can't teach you to maximize your velocity, control, movement and location IMHO. As they say, your mileage may vary.
P.S. Fair warning, Wolforth was significantly influenced by the "throwing coach".
Your intent is to copy your guru and bash Mills. Introducing yourself as a throwing coach is a cop out. When your student can't throw strikes or has a lousy breaking ball, you can always say that you are just the throwing coach, not the pitching coach. As long as I have tapes of Maddux, I don't need Wolforth. Between Throwing Coach, Wolforth, and Mills.........how many big league pitchers have they developed?
As long as you want to continue to bash Mills, but admit he can teach you how to throw strikes, how does that work? Can't the other coaches teach a pitcher how to throw a strike?
I also have news for you.....movement is created by trial and error, not by a guru.
"Your intent is to copy your guru and bash Mills."
No, my intent is to give my honest opinion.
"Introducing yourself as a throwing coach is a cop out. When your student can't throw strikes or has a lousy breaking ball, you can always say that you are just the throwing coach, not the pitching coach."
You are reading something into this phrase which is unintended. A throwing coach teaches you to throw with maximum velocity AND location. And with hopefully a lively fastball. A "pitching coach" adds all those other things a "pitcher" does to get hitters out. The better you are at throwing the ball, the more tools you have to become a pitcher. If you can get both in the same instructor, good for you.
"As long as I have tapes of Maddux, I don't need Wolforth."
Great. Perhaps you should consider studying slow motion clips of a variety of pitchers? In any case, if I'm betting my son's, or other kid's, career/s on me being right, I think I'm going to listen closely to EVERYONE and then use slow motion clips of MLB pitchers as a truth detector.
"As long as you want to continue to bash Mills, but admit he can teach you how to throw strikes, how does that work?"
I credit him with that which I think he deserves.
"Can't the other coaches teach a pitcher how to throw a strike?"
If you don't already know the answer to this question I would be surprised but I will answer it as if it is were a serious question. Teaching someone to throw strikes as differentiated from teaching someone to maximimize their ability to throw a baseball is what I mean. Which path you choose depends on your gifts and goals.
"I also have news for you.....movement is created by trial and error, not by a guru."
That is partly true. But not the whole story.
Since tone is difficult to convey, please read this post understanding that I intend to convey a calm quiet tone.
No, my intent is to give my honest opinion.
"Introducing yourself as a throwing coach is a cop out. When your student can't throw strikes or has a lousy breaking ball, you can always say that you are just the throwing coach, not the pitching coach."
You are reading something into this phrase which is unintended. A throwing coach teaches you to throw with maximum velocity AND location. And with hopefully a lively fastball. A "pitching coach" adds all those other things a "pitcher" does to get hitters out. The better you are at throwing the ball, the more tools you have to become a pitcher. If you can get both in the same instructor, good for you.
"As long as I have tapes of Maddux, I don't need Wolforth."
Great. Perhaps you should consider studying slow motion clips of a variety of pitchers? In any case, if I'm betting my son's, or other kid's, career/s on me being right, I think I'm going to listen closely to EVERYONE and then use slow motion clips of MLB pitchers as a truth detector.
"As long as you want to continue to bash Mills, but admit he can teach you how to throw strikes, how does that work?"
I credit him with that which I think he deserves.
"Can't the other coaches teach a pitcher how to throw a strike?"
If you don't already know the answer to this question I would be surprised but I will answer it as if it is were a serious question. Teaching someone to throw strikes as differentiated from teaching someone to maximimize their ability to throw a baseball is what I mean. Which path you choose depends on your gifts and goals.
"I also have news for you.....movement is created by trial and error, not by a guru."
That is partly true. But not the whole story.
Since tone is difficult to convey, please read this post understanding that I intend to convey a calm quiet tone.
Pops
Let us know when you know the difference between a thowing coach and a pitching coach.
At that point an intelligent conversation can begin.
Let us know when you know the difference between a thowing coach and a pitching coach.
At that point an intelligent conversation can begin.
I looked into Mill's program awhile ago and although it made sense to what I had learned at that point, my son and I deceided to take lessons from a local organization. He is now 16 and is still working with these instructors during the long cold New England winters. When he first started we were concerned with mechanics not velocity. He has always been tall and skinny and knew that velocity would develop as he got older. Now his mechanics a very good and the velocity is really starting to improve.
The most important thing that has happened over the past 6 years is that he has become a student of pitching. He understands what the proper mechanics should, he can self correct at any time. He's also learned the mental aspects of pitching from setting up a batter to the toughness and maturity that's needed to be successful. The later is learned from both success and failure on the mound.
I get the feeling that we look to find quick fixes and instant results, but the process is really a journey. It takes alot of time, energy, studying, patience and unfortunatly money. The most important thing is the desire of the ball player to learn and work hard.
What I've learned is that the athlete, coach, instructor and parent must all be students. Find an instructor that keeps learning and knows how to adapt his knowledge to his students. Also, it has to make sense to you based upon what you have already learned.
Good Luck
The most important thing that has happened over the past 6 years is that he has become a student of pitching. He understands what the proper mechanics should, he can self correct at any time. He's also learned the mental aspects of pitching from setting up a batter to the toughness and maturity that's needed to be successful. The later is learned from both success and failure on the mound.
I get the feeling that we look to find quick fixes and instant results, but the process is really a journey. It takes alot of time, energy, studying, patience and unfortunatly money. The most important thing is the desire of the ball player to learn and work hard.
What I've learned is that the athlete, coach, instructor and parent must all be students. Find an instructor that keeps learning and knows how to adapt his knowledge to his students. Also, it has to make sense to you based upon what you have already learned.
Good Luck
If I go to an instructor and video the lesson can I use the video later??????
Or can I only use what I hear and learn while with the instructor??
And.....if you took lessons and videoed it, and were excited enough to show me the video, should I decline and just schedule an appointment with the instructor??
Or can I only use what I hear and learn while with the instructor??
And.....if you took lessons and videoed it, and were excited enough to show me the video, should I decline and just schedule an appointment with the instructor??
Morally I would have a problem with watching a videotaped lesson that someone else paid for. I do know, however, that my pitching instructor has a very personal relationship with me, and knows me and my mechanics real well, and we have personalized lessons. I may be doing something that other people aren't doing that requires a different type of correction, etc. Also, a good half of my lesson is preparation and conditioning, so I don't know what good videotaping would do for you with that type of pitching coach.
However, I would feel free to videotape your pitching lessons for later use, if not encourage it. that can be very beneficial.
NJ Pitch
However, I would feel free to videotape your pitching lessons for later use, if not encourage it. that can be very beneficial.
NJ Pitch
Mark H, I noticed that you tried to answer all of my statements-questions, except for one. Which major league pitchers have been developed by any of these fellows?
As far as a young pitcher trying (intent) to throw hard, any pitcher with an ounce of competitive spirit will try to throw hard. The ones that don't try, don't go very far.
As far as a young pitcher trying (intent) to throw hard, any pitcher with an ounce of competitive spirit will try to throw hard. The ones that don't try, don't go very far.
quote:
Originally posted by Lamber:
Pops
Let us know when you know the difference between a thowing coach and a pitching coach.
At that point an intelligent conversation can begin.
I know the difference "catcher", and my cop out statement stands.
Explain it then.
quote:
Originally posted by pops:
Mark H, I noticed that you tried to answer all of my statements-questions, except for one. Which major league pitchers have been developed by any of these fellows?
Didn't keep a list of any sort as I read, but I'm sure you could question the gurus if you like. So did you have any comment on the points I tried to answer?
As far as a young pitcher trying (intent) to throw hard, any pitcher with an ounce of competitive spirit will try to throw hard. The ones that don't try, don't go very far.
Careful of the slippery slope. Keep talking like that and before long you may be sounding like the "throwing coach"?
What do/did others say about intent, it's importance and why? Or not.Once again the tone is meant to be calm, quiet and even friendly. I'm not mad at you or any of the gurus. Just offering my honest opinion. Which of course is open to refutation.
Hello,
All I know is if you follow what Dick Mills says EXACTLY, you will never throw 90 or even 85.
He's a great guy and I love how he is trying to help.
But his program does not help.
You will lose speed, lose interest.
People will say, you didn't follow what he said. But the people that DO follow exactly what he explains, are the ones who are doing terrible on it.
He has great instruction on Mental Toughness.
This is the identical story of people who "claim" to have success on DM's Program.
They say,
My son is not throwing as hard but he KNOWS how to pitch. His control is better (a little)
Or
We have been successful on the DM program, my son is 15 years old and throwing 75, he really knows how to pitch. He's got a decent curveball. His control is pretty good. His velocity is steadily building year after year.
They call this success even though DM's claims to continually say, this is how the 95 mph pitcher pitches, this is what he does.
That kid throwing 75 mph will MAYBE hit 80 as a senior, but that's it. All I know is if you continue to do what DM says, you will never even get the chance to throw 90.
All I know is if you follow what Dick Mills says EXACTLY, you will never throw 90 or even 85.
He's a great guy and I love how he is trying to help.
But his program does not help.
You will lose speed, lose interest.
People will say, you didn't follow what he said. But the people that DO follow exactly what he explains, are the ones who are doing terrible on it.
He has great instruction on Mental Toughness.
This is the identical story of people who "claim" to have success on DM's Program.
They say,
My son is not throwing as hard but he KNOWS how to pitch. His control is better (a little)
Or
We have been successful on the DM program, my son is 15 years old and throwing 75, he really knows how to pitch. He's got a decent curveball. His control is pretty good. His velocity is steadily building year after year.
They call this success even though DM's claims to continually say, this is how the 95 mph pitcher pitches, this is what he does.
That kid throwing 75 mph will MAYBE hit 80 as a senior, but that's it. All I know is if you continue to do what DM says, you will never even get the chance to throw 90.
As has been stated previously, Mills covers all the basics. So if someone teaches the fundamental mechanics that protect the arm and build core strength, explain how that keeps your velocity down? I have Mills tapes and they are great to a point. They teach you, as just Joe Dad, that you don't really know very much about pitching mechanics.
I ended up taking my son to a pitching coach for the A's farm system. He diagnosed my son's mechanical faults in about two throws. My son has been working for four years to correct these faults. The mechanics the A's coach teaches are the same as Mill's. The only significant difference is long toss, Mill's is against it and MLB is for it.
My main point is that you need another set of eyes unless you know what you are doing. I have been to so many of my son's lessons that I can pick out a kid's faults after a couple of throws. I could not have done that by just watching the tapes. Mill's has great drills and exercises but if you don't know what is wrong how do you fix it?
My son just turned 15, is a freshman, is left handed and has increased his velocity every year 4-5 mph while improving his control.
I ended up taking my son to a pitching coach for the A's farm system. He diagnosed my son's mechanical faults in about two throws. My son has been working for four years to correct these faults. The mechanics the A's coach teaches are the same as Mill's. The only significant difference is long toss, Mill's is against it and MLB is for it.
My main point is that you need another set of eyes unless you know what you are doing. I have been to so many of my son's lessons that I can pick out a kid's faults after a couple of throws. I could not have done that by just watching the tapes. Mill's has great drills and exercises but if you don't know what is wrong how do you fix it?
My son just turned 15, is a freshman, is left handed and has increased his velocity every year 4-5 mph while improving his control.
I have heard many things but I have yet to hear of a kid LOSING velocity from following a program. (cough) hidden agenda (cough)
Have you seen his own son's latest radar readings?
Lamber,
No, I have not. Have you?
I have seen his son had arm surgery and I would imagine THAT has something to do with his decreased velocity.
No, I have not. Have you?
I have seen his son had arm surgery and I would imagine THAT has something to do with his decreased velocity.
Arm Surgery?????
Yes, arm surgery.
Taken from Rochester Redwings' site:
Ryan Mills
B/T: R/L
HT/WT: 6-5/195
Born: July 21, 1977 in Peoria, IL
Resides: Scottsdale, AZ
M.L. Service: None
Contract Status: Signed thru 2003
How Obtained: Twins' 1st round pick (6th overall) in 1998 June draft
PLAYING CAREER:
2002: Was second on club in games started and innings...had .365 BAA vs. LHH and .258 vs. RHH.
2001: Disabled for remainder of season with left elbow surgery, May 25.
You are gonna comment on Mills and his son's velocity without knowing he had arm surgery?!?
Taken from Rochester Redwings' site:
Ryan Mills
B/T: R/L
HT/WT: 6-5/195
Born: July 21, 1977 in Peoria, IL
Resides: Scottsdale, AZ
M.L. Service: None
Contract Status: Signed thru 2003
How Obtained: Twins' 1st round pick (6th overall) in 1998 June draft
PLAYING CAREER:
2002: Was second on club in games started and innings...had .365 BAA vs. LHH and .258 vs. RHH.
2001: Disabled for remainder of season with left elbow surgery, May 25.
You are gonna comment on Mills and his son's velocity without knowing he had arm surgery?!?
Red Bird 5,
If you are talking to me.
I don't know what else to tell you except the truth.
The majority of people over the past years I've seen or talked to say they have lost speed on DM's program. My self included.
When I was 13 I threw about 72, after following Mills exact Mechanics during the winter. I was pumped thinking I would be throwing 80. I came out throwing 64. Let me tell you it was HARD to throw 64. I also got injured. I was doing exactly what Mills said.
That is the truth from people who do exactly what he says.
If you are talking to me.
I don't know what else to tell you except the truth.
The majority of people over the past years I've seen or talked to say they have lost speed on DM's program. My self included.
When I was 13 I threw about 72, after following Mills exact Mechanics during the winter. I was pumped thinking I would be throwing 80. I came out throwing 64. Let me tell you it was HARD to throw 64. I also got injured. I was doing exactly what Mills said.
That is the truth from people who do exactly what he says.