My son is "graduating" to high school baseball this spring and 17U this summer. Seems to me that is also a place that parents need to "graduate" their thinking from what I call little league mentality to something more. I have read many things about how parents overdo it with their kids and the recent thread of "gunning" a 9 year old. We are all NOT that way ! My son only plays baseball competitively now...no more soccer no more church basketball. All his choice. For those of you who think that is not good for a soon to be 15 year old, read this. "MLB has been tweeting videos of spring training BP and bull pens and I've watched every video just to listen to the sounds of baseball again "...that is from my son the day pitchers and catchers reported. My parents ask me all the time if he is "having fun playing baseball".....what do you think?
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This will start the multi sport debate...
I'm all for doing whatever you want, 1 sport or 10, have at it. Good luck to him.
2019Lefty21,
Based on what you've shared, I think it is fantastic you are letting him choose his direction. Parenting is not easy. We have to give them a nudge every now and then. You've given your son the freedom to choose, and I can only assume he has earned that freedom. Good for him. This is part of growing up and I think you'll find many of today's ball players focusing on what they like or what they are good at or possibly both. My kids made similar decisions along the way, but they also had the opportunity to try different things and sports to find what they like most.
PS...Young men grow up, and they have to start somewhere. Your reference to "little league mentality" is referring to an organization (or similar recreational baseball organization) where many of the young ball players start playing baseball in the US. These kids get to play with their classmates and friends......nothing wrong with that....this is just one step in how the wheat is separated from the chaff in the baseball world. Some continue to play baseball and other sports at a young age and others don't. It is the natural progression of life. We get your point, but I probably would have selected different words than "little league mentality" because it may come across as insulting to some. JMO.
Sorry if little league mentality was a poor choice of words. I am relatively new to this board, and trust me in more than one thread I have seen discussion where that has seemed appropriate to me. This is the hsbaseball web.com isn't it?
I think there's a lot more to Fenway's post than his gentle suggestion re: terminology.
Best of luck to your son. Most (but certainly not all) kids eventually reach a point where they want to, and probably should, concentrate on one sport. Fifteen is certainly a reasonable age to do that.
I can assure you, Fenway meant no disrespect with his comment about your use of the phrase "little league mentality." I don't particularly like the term either, but I make no assumptions about people who do use it. At least not the first time. ;-) Over time you will find that Fenway probably does not have an offensive bone in his body, and is an extremely valuable resource to parents whose kids are going through this process.
My only became "baseball only" this year. He originally wasn't going to play basketball because it always ends with him starting the baseball season banged up with sore knees and ankles. He was talked into playing anyway and was having a pretty good season (10 pts and 11 rebounds a game), but quit because his knees were killing him, mainly due to sprints in conditioning. His choice. He had felt trapped into playing a sport he didn't really even enjoy. Being 6' 4" at a small school will do that.
I'm sorry, didn't mean to appear to down on Fenway at all...just poor choice of words on my part
Let's not get too PC here. I think everyone knows what "little league mentality" means. And I see it as more of a generic term than one specifically assigned to Little League (note the caps for the organization). Many people say they played little league, when, in fact it was something else. At least in my generation...
Anyway, I think "little league mentality" is akin to Little League as saying "kleenex" is to tissue paper. No need to get bent out of shape about it. Not that anyone has...
bballman posted:Anyway, I think "little league mentality" is akin to Little League as saying "kleenex" is to tissue paper. No need to get bent out of shape about it. Not that anyone has...
Or, as all those oddballs in the midwest refer to Coke as pop
Nuke83 posted:bballman posted:Anyway, I think "little league mentality" is akin to Little League as saying "kleenex" is to tissue paper. No need to get bent out of shape about it. Not that anyone has...
Or, as all those oddballs in the midwest refer to Coke as pop
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Is he having fun? One of the reasons pros retire is "It stopped being fun. It started feeling like all work." When players move up the ladder more hard work is required. But the game should never stop being fun. My son returned from two major injuries to play his senior year of high school . I asked him how he felt. He said it was more fun than pain.
Re: LL mentality
it exists. From the time I started coaching 7/8 machine pitch I tried to teach parents how to be sports parents. If more coaches used this there would be less LL mentality. And less LL mentality in high school.
i once pulled a LL parent aside and stuck a finger in his face. I told him don't ever, EVER again say out loud at the park your kid is better than this kid and that kid. In fact, you're doing your kid a disservice by even mentioning it to him.
I've heard dads and kids in Burger King after practices and games running down teammates and deciding who's better than whom. My son knew. When he compared players I stopped him. He was only allowed to discuss with me what his teammates were capable of doing.
Again I realize next year I get to graduate! The big time! High school baseball, where only millions and millions have gone before. Then I can look down my nose at those overzealous youth parents!
i guess I'll just go back to the shadows and stick to reading other people's posts....at least until I realize how my words will be dissected and all my hidden meanings come oozing out
It's not a matter of looking down because your kid advanced. There's a behavior some exhibit that's insufferable. And I can guarantee you it doesn't end in high high school. There's a lot of jealousy and innuendo when the players come from multiple youth leagues. Then there's the "he thinks his kid's (fumes) don't stink. He played travel. He was too good to play with our kids."
2019Lefty21 posted:i guess I'll just go back to the shadows and stick to reading other people's posts....at least until I realize how my words will be dissected and all my hidden meanings come oozing out
Don't be afraid to be an equal opportunity offender. Just don't purposely direct it at any one person. Sometimes learning involves stupid questions. Without stupid questions you will get stupid results.
2020dad posted:Again I realize next year I get to graduate! The big time! High school baseball, where only millions and millions have gone before. Then I can look down my nose at those overzealous youth parents!
The above comment from you is more than likely why you feel that way.
Someone comes here and posts a really nice post, only to be taken in another direction... something that you do often.
2019Lefty21 posted:i guess I'll just go back to the shadows and stick to reading other people's posts....at least until I realize how my words will be dissected and all my hidden meanings come oozing out
Dont feel that way, you explained yourself and your comment was not meant to offend.
I understand, what you are trying to say, when HS rolls around its time for parents to grow up too!
Nothing wrong with playing one sport, son played baseball only in HS.
BTW, it is in HS that many players do drop out, and a lot has to do with burn out.
On a lighter note I do get to take a weekend off from preparing tax returns this weekend and get to go watch Coastal Carolina play Ohio State Saturday and maybe Duke on Sunday!
RJM posted:Then there's the "he thinks his kid's (fumes) don't stink. He played travel. He was too good to play with our kids."
In this part of the country we just say "that kid's parents have the travel ball mentality." ;-)
That's a joke people. Well, sort of.
MTH posted:RJM posted:Then there's the "he thinks his kid's (fumes) don't stink. He played travel. He was too good to play with our kids."
In this part of the country we just say "that kid's parents have the travel ball mentality." ;-)
That's a joke people. Well, sort of.
I stuck to answering questions about travel. I never poked parents about travel. I stayed removed from parents because they wanted me to second guess the high school coach (I coached). I refused to do it except in confidence with two travel dad buddies.
One dad asked me to take him to a scout league game. He was shocked at the level of competition. I told him my son goes from being the stud to a face in the crowd. Some parents were taken back I would go say hello to parents of the opposing high school. Some were parents of teammates or former teammates.
One time I was on the other sideline when the pitcher (a former teammate) K'ed my son. I took a huge razzing from the parents. I was back on our side when my son crushed the ball next time up. As he was rounding the bases I gave a thumbs up to the other side. They laughed and boo'ed me at the same time. It's not life and death. It's baseball. It's fun.
When my son came up a third time the catcher said, "(pitcher's name) said best of three?"
Here in Small Town U.S.A. it's more of legacy problem than a travel ball one. The high school has a long history of success and a lot of the parents of kids in high school now played on state championship teams. They have a feeling of entitlement concerning their kids and varsity roster spots.
The best seat in any HS stadium is always the one furthest away from the rest of the parents. The dad of one of my son's teammates was a D1 head coach. He always sat in a lawn chair outside the stadium.
I think 15 is a good age to Specialize. What is bad is baseball only at age 11 or so since baseball is a very unbalanced unilateral sport and not great at developing movement skills and athleticism.
however at age 15 the athletic foundation should be there already.
My son played three (baseball/football/basketball) sports until last winter when he decided not to play basketball and started speed and strength training instead. His goal at 14 is to play two sports in high school and college. That's his goal for now and I will support him but have regular conversations about the amount of commitment it will require of him. He also knows if his grades slip in any way, he will play zero sports.
I've had a few conversations with a well-known college coach who said that he personally prefers multi-sports athletes and called off the names of about seven current major leaguers that he coached who played multiple sports. Now, that's not why my son plays multiple sports. In fact, he knows nothing of that conversation. He is at the point where he can make his own decisions unless the reason behind it is a girl. LoL
MTH posted:The best seat in any HS stadium is always the one furthest away from the rest of the parents. The dad of one of my son's teammates was a D1 head coach. He always sat in a lawn chair outside the stadium.
I have a "friend" who uses a cell phone when one of "those parents" is coming. Grab it like an important call just came in, cover your other ear and say "hello," and head off in the opposite direction.
This technique comes in handy. Nothing worse than listening to a parent gripe about the coach.... Unless it is followed by a rant about their kid: he's underutilized, he's not getting to play "his position," he's not being given the same playing time so-and-so's kid gets, etc.
2019Lefty21 posted:On a lighter note I do get to take a weekend off from preparing tax returns this weekend and get to go watch Coastal Carolina play Ohio State Saturday and maybe Duke on Sunday!
There's a post I like ! Go Chants! And go UVA. I hope they win em all now. Can only help CCU RPI !
hshuler posted:My son played three (baseball/football/basketball) sports until last winter when he decided not to play basketball and started speed and strength training instead. His goal at 14 is to play two sports in high school and college. That's his goal for now and I will support him but have regular conversations about the amount of commitment it will require of him. He also knows if his grades slip in any way, he will play zero sports.
I've had a few conversations with a well-known college coach who said that he personally prefers multi-sports athletes and called off the names of about seven current major leaguers that he coached who played multiple sports. Now, that's not why my son plays multiple sports. In fact, he knows nothing of that conversation. He is at the point where he can make his own decisions unless the reason behind it is a girl. LoL
Is it realistic to play two sports in college? I'm all for multi sports but college baseball plus the academics alone is already a pretty big workload.
MomLW posted:MTH posted:The best seat in any HS stadium is always the one furthest away from the rest of the parents. The dad of one of my son's teammates was a D1 head coach. He always sat in a lawn chair outside the stadium.
I have a "friend" who uses a cell phone when one of "those parents" is coming. Grab it like an important call just came in, cover your other ear and say "hello," and head off in the opposite direction.
This technique comes in handy. Nothing worse than listening to a parent gripe about the coach.... Unless it is followed by a rant about their kid: he's underutilized, he's not getting to play "his position," he's not being given the same playing time so-and-so's kid gets, etc.
Do what I do. Speak honestly about their kid. They will never approach you again.
Dominik85 posted:hshuler posted:My son played three (baseball/football/basketball) sports until last winter when he decided not to play basketball and started speed and strength training instead. His goal at 14 is to play two sports in high school and college. That's his goal for now and I will support him but have regular conversations about the amount of commitment it will require of him. He also knows if his grades slip in any way, he will play zero sports.
I've had a few conversations with a well-known college coach who said that he personally prefers multi-sports athletes and called off the names of about seven current major leaguers that he coached who played multiple sports. Now, that's not why my son plays multiple sports. In fact, he knows nothing of that conversation. He is at the point where he can make his own decisions unless the reason behind it is a girl. LoL
Is it realistic to play two sports in college? I'm all for multi sports but college baseball plus the academics alone is already a pretty big workload.
I am not sure if he can or will but I did many moons ago.
2019Lefty21,
First off, I was not offended at all. My skin is significantly more thick than that.
As baseball parents, we all start somewhere and most of our kids started with recreational baseball when they were young. I think most of the parental contributors on this website have graduated from recreational baseball, but there are many reading this website who are not contributors or who's kids are just starting out. Let's give them the benefit of our experiences. Again, I agree with your point....parents need to think about the bigger baseball picture as they move up the baseball hierarchy. But I also think parents and players should never forget where they came from. JMO.
Point well taken! I will be more careful with my words. Sons little league won a state championship as 10 yr olds and he and I were just reflecting on that and how nice it would be to win a state championship in high school baseball on the way to school today! I guess I really could've made my point and chosen different words...as a former little league coach, I have a very definite opinion on some "parental mentality" I have experienced previously. Trust me, I coached a team of kids nobody wanted (as per the league president) as 6 year olds and watched them reel off 14 straight wins...so I am very familiar with the positive influence of little league baseball!
Dominik85 postedIs it realistic to play two sports in college? I'm all for multi sports but college baseball plus the academics alone is already a pretty big workload.
A kid from my son's HS is at Yale now, as a freshman, playing football and golf. Hopefully he's able to swing it. Literally and figuratively.
A kid on my sons baseball team just ripped an ACL playing winter league basketball last weekend...this is a kid who is 100% a baseball player. Not saying he shouldn't play hoops, my son does as well but at some point you need to decide what you are and what you want to focus on.
old_school posted:A kid on my sons baseball team just ripped an ACL playing winter league basketball last weekend...this is a kid who is 100% a baseball player. Not saying he shouldn't play hoops, my son does as well but at some point you need to decide what you are and what you want to focus on.
A player can also get injured crossing the street. My son snowboarded every winter in high school and winter break in college. He kick boxed for physical training and reflexes. You have to live your life. In high school the coach warned anyone caught playing any other sports after 3/1 would be suspended from the team. That's when the kid stopped snowboarding.
I'm inclined to agree with RJM. My son missed the start of his senior season because of elbow soreness. I'll never be able to prove it, but I'm convinced it was caused by playing his Strat three hours a night in preparation for a gig. But, seeing his band playing that event was priceless. There is more to life than baseball.
RJM posted:old_school posted:A kid on my sons baseball team just ripped an ACL playing winter league basketball last weekend...this is a kid who is 100% a baseball player. Not saying he shouldn't play hoops, my son does as well but at some point you need to decide what you are and what you want to focus on.
A player can also get injured crossing the street. My son snowboarded every winter in high school and winter break in college. He kick boxed for physical training and reflexes. You have to live your life. In high school the coach warned anyone caught playing any other sports after 3/1 would be suspended from the team. That's when the kid stopped snowboarding.
There is no argument for this, it absolutely could happen anywhere. In this case it happened 2 weeks before the season starts for a key year in his development playing a game he honestly didn't give a damn about...and that really sucks.
MTH posted:I'm inclined to agree with RJM. My son missed the start of his senior season because of elbow soreness. I'll never be able to prove it, but I'm convinced it was caused by playing his Strat three hours a night in preparation for a gig. But, seeing his band playing that event was priceless. There is more to life than baseball.
there ya go, it was worth it to you and hopefully him. to mine it certainly would not be worth it.
My son suffered two severe injuries. The torn PCL and MCL occurred in a baseball game. The shoulder separation and surgery was from falling down during an agility drill rehabbing his knee. He never got more than dinged up participating in any other sport. Live your life. Don't look back wondering what you should have done.
2019Lefty21 posted:My son is "graduating" to high school baseball this spring and 17U this summer. Seems to me that is also a place that parents need to "graduate" their thinking from what I call little league mentality to something more. I have read many things about how parents overdo it with their kids and the recent thread of "gunning" a 9 year old. We are all NOT that way ! My son only plays baseball competitively now...no more soccer no more church basketball. All his choice. For those of you who think that is not good for a soon to be 15 year old, read this. "MLB has been tweeting videos of spring training BP and bull pens and I've watched every video just to listen to the sounds of baseball again "...that is from my son the day pitchers and catchers reported. My parents ask me all the time if he is "having fun playing baseball".....what do you think?
Just be prepared for the possibility of your sons outlook to change dramatically. Boys becoming men can move priorities of sports to cars or girls.
Nothing like the feeling of "independence" when a young man can start driving on his own.
The other side of that is he plays soccer on the weekends and also snowboards...things that scare me to death, but also his choice. I am well aware of the possibility of female or other change of plans...he's a good looking 6'2" 14 year old. Life has to happen at some point, just hoping we have provided proper guidance and wisdom. Have really worked hard to keep the GPA a priority as well....so far 3.725
2019Lefty21 posted:My son is "graduating" to high school baseball this spring and 17U this summer. Seems to me that is also a place that parents need to "graduate" their thinking from what I call little league mentality to something more. I have read many things about how parents overdo it with their kids and the recent thread of "gunning" a 9 year old. We are all NOT that way ! My son only plays baseball competitively now...no more soccer no more church basketball. All his choice. For those of you who think that is not good for a soon to be 15 year old, read this. "MLB has been tweeting videos of spring training BP and bull pens and I've watched every video just to listen to the sounds of baseball again "...that is from my son the day pitchers and catchers reported. My parents ask me all the time if he is "having fun playing baseball".....what do you think?
2019, it is different strokes for different folks and I agree that HS would be a great time for parents to do some growing up. There are fanaticals in any sub-group of people, baseball parents can be extreme in both directions. Do you as a parent say "I have zero control over what the coach does with my kid that is HIS call"...or do you say "I think I need to educate the coach on exactly how his batting order should be and where my kid should be playing"? Hopefully by high school there is more of the first and less of the latter with the dose of reality that if it affects my child's health I will speak up, and I don't care who you are!
The real battle is becoming educated on what will affect a kids health, and this board is great for that. One sport, or multiple sport...that's been played out on here. Typical rest periods and exercises to be done between mound times...also very good information on here. Playing travel and High School at the same time...also been discussed. Places to attend, what organizations are reputable...also discussed at length.
I think my hope for high school baseball, which will also be next year, is that parents in general are more educated about what their role should be regarding their child's baseball team.
CaCO3Girl posted:I think my hope for high school baseball, which will also be next year, is that parents in general are more educated about what their role should be regarding their child's baseball team.
Yeah, I remember having that same hope, once upon a time. :-) Let's just say I wouldn't get my hopes up too much. But, I really hope you get your wish. If not, you can always set your lawn chair up down one of the outfield lines. The view's pretty good from out there, and it's a lot more peaceful.
I prefer the 3rd base line area along the fence. I also wear headphones to look as if im listening to a game or music.
Parents - beware of the Fumes. Perfume and Exhaust. Both have amazing pull to 15 year old eyes and brains etc.
Do not underestimate Friends either. If you son is still hanging out with kids he has known since Kindergarten and they are not athletic he can find himself exposed to almost anything. Especially if they have older siblings.
As far as picking a single sport - if I had to do over again I would encourage my son to play anything and as many of them except football. Football makes sense only if you have scholarship level athletic ability and the brains to match so that you can reasonably expect to cash in a scholarship with a College degree. Or you have what it takes to make the NFL.
luv baseball posted:Parents - beware of the Fumes. Perfume and Exhaust. Both have amazing pull to 15 year old eyes and brains etc.
Do not underestimate Friends either. If you son is still hanging out with kids he has known since Kindergarten and they are not athletic he can find himself exposed to almost anything. Especially if they have older siblings.
As far as picking a single sport - if I had to do over again I would encourage my son to play anything and as many of them except football. Football makes sense only if you have scholarship level athletic ability and the brains to match so that you can reasonably expect to cash in a scholarship with a College degree. Or you have what it takes to make the NFL.
What am I to beware of? and not underestimate?
"Son, get in the car! stop looking at women, cars and friends! That could lead to dating, driving and role models for people that plan to get real jobs!"
luv baseball posted:Parents - beware of the Fumes.
Little late to be warning me about fumes....you know, teenage boy and all.
Go44dad posted:luv baseball posted:Parents - beware of the Fumes. Perfume and Exhaust. Both have amazing pull to 15 year old eyes and brains etc.
Do not underestimate Friends either. If you son is still hanging out with kids he has known since Kindergarten and they are not athletic he can find himself exposed to almost anything. Especially if they have older siblings.
As far as picking a single sport - if I had to do over again I would encourage my son to play anything and as many of them except football. Football makes sense only if you have scholarship level athletic ability and the brains to match so that you can reasonably expect to cash in a scholarship with a College degree. Or you have what it takes to make the NFL.
What am I to beware of? and not underestimate?
"Son, get in the car! stop looking at women, cars and friends! That could lead to dating, driving and role models for people that plan to get real jobs!"
Well you can take a simplistic and sarcastic view like that - or in the context of the string realize that the point is that there are a number of distractions that can lead to bad choices that young men are famous for - so beware of them and do not underestimate the temptation.
Dropping baseball (or sports) is the least of the problems at that point - but the change in priorities might tell you something but who gives a damn. Wine, women and song is the way to go.
Butthead friends, bad girl(boy)friends and driving too fast (not to mention drunk or high) have wrecked a lot of teenage lives. I am not making that up ...I swear ....but I suppose there's nothing to worry about. Let's turn'em loose and run wild in the streets. Let the chips fall where they may is a much better plan than being engaged in what is going on in their lives.
Not sure how old your kid is - but if he brings home the girl that is a nightmare or his buds turn to the bud, pills and/or booze and their 18 year old brother is the HS dealer it can be very rough. You should be ready for everything you hoped your son could be to suddenly be on the edge of going down the drain. It can happen fast - 60 days in the summer is all it takes and it is hard to unwind.
Some of you should read LUV BASEBALL's post for what it is without reading into it. He may actually be sharing personal experiences....
bballdad2016 posted:Some of you should read LUV BASEBALL's post for what it is without reading into it. He may actually be sharing personal experiences....
OK, and I may be sharing mine also. In the context of "different strokes for different folks", my eyes are open. I wasn't born when I created a logon id for this site. Your not going to prevent "fumes and friends" by locking your kid away from them.
Don't take short for simplistic or sarcastic. Your not the only person with life experiences.
I didn't take it as such.
ok, with civility and less the sarcasm....
In context of the thread, with regards to "fumes, friends and older siblings", and beyond awareness of, what are you suggesting other parents do?
My point is you cannot lock a child in a room while he is turning into a man and keep him away from life's "perils" of cars, women and other influences ("friends, older siblings")
ok, with civility and less the sarcasm....
In context of the thread, with regards to "fumes, friends and older siblings", and beyond awareness of, what are you suggesting other parents do?
My point is you cannot lock a child in a room while he is turning into a man and keep him away from life's "perils" of cars, women and other influences ("friends, older siblings")
((I'll cop to the sarcasm))
All I did was guide my son along the way and helped him make the best choices. Its up to him at this point. He has a car, a girlfriend, lots of good friends, and has had some friends that i'm glad he no longer associates with.
Go44dad posted:ok, with civility and less the sarcasm....
In context of the thread, with regards to "fumes, friends and older siblings", and beyond awareness of, what are you suggesting other parents do?
My point is you cannot lock a child in a room while he is turning into a man and keep him away from life's "perils" of cars, women and other influences ("friends, older siblings")
((I'll cop to the sarcasm))
Agreed! Personally, I try to show my son examples of good and not so good decision-making. The point that I really try to drive home is that ALL (not most) of your decisions should line up with you desired outcome(s) in life...and one bad decision can overtake a whole lots of good ones. But at the end of the day, I can't choose for him and I am at peace with that...and most importantly, the fact that the Good Lord will hear my fatherly prayers as well.
hshuler posted:Agreed! Personally, I try to show my son examples of good and not so good decision-making. The point that I really try to drive home is that ALL (not most) of your decisions should line up with you desired outcome(s) in life...and one bad decision can overtake a whole lots of good ones. But at the end of the day, I can't choose for him and I am at peace with that...and most importantly, the fact that the Good Lord will hear my fatherly prayers as well.
You are a better person than I will ever be. I grudgingly accept that in the end it is my children's choices that will turn them into the adults they are going to be...I don't have to like it or be at peace with it.
A promising young local athlete had a scholarship lined up to a dream school and it all ended because he thought it would be hilarious to ask a girl to the prom by hanging a sign around a goats head that said "Will you GOAT with me to the prom?"...the owner of the goat didn't appreciate the goat being "borrowed" for the night. Raise your hand if this sounds like something your kid might consider as funny, harmless, and would never for one moment think it would cost him his future?
Go44dad posted:ok, with civility and less the sarcasm....
In context of the thread, with regards to "fumes, friends and older siblings", and beyond awareness of, what are you suggesting other parents do?
My point is you cannot lock a child in a room while he is turning into a man and keep him away from life's "perils" of cars, women and other influences ("friends, older siblings")
((I'll cop to the sarcasm))
I was trying to express for those that have yet to have a son reach 14/15/16 that what ever you have done until now double it from a paying attention standpoint. Be ready to fight some hard battles if bad decisions occur. Don't blink, it can and will change in as little as couple of extended business trips. Be a team with your spouse and talk to them about what is necessary. Follow through.
Prepare - you cannot talk to them enough about choices good and bad in the 11 to 14 range. Give advice and let them make a few decisions and discuss the outcomes. Credibility as a parent comes from being right about stuff - not "Because I said so". Warn of negative outcomes and let them stub their toe and deal with it. Your chances of them listening when they are older are better - not perfect ...just better.
Prevention: I had the option to send my kids to work for my parents 700 miles away but gave into whining about "being with my friends for the summer". HUGE MISTAKE. That much free time was a disaster. Find a way to fill it up or get them out of there if you have that choice. This is HS sports biggest value - chews up time with generally positive activity.
Disaster Happens: Now it is "Because I said so" time. Consider Private schools. Insist Cell phones are answered. Take them away if they are not. Do not allow significant car access, unaccounted for time outside the house and limit cash almost at any cost. Do not buy I am going to Tim's house and I'll be back at 9 - until they prove they actually go to Tim's house and
1 hour in a car = 50 or more miles. That can take you from the far out suburbs of almost any city to the red light district. Fight the battle for communications, mobility and money. Find a way into Facebook etc. In my case redistricting because of new school blew up my kid half way through HS. All his friends that were good kids were left at old school. New Friends raised hairs on first meeting. Later a girl hanging out with this crew just compounded the problems. In hindsight doing step 1 & 2 better and sending to a Private would have been worth the pain.
What you then hope for is that in a worst case - they hate you so much that they head for the door at 18. You hope and pray they make it or that they come back humbled at 19 or 20 ready to fix their lives.
The absolute worst case - You own a funeral.
Sorry if I was overly sarcastic in return - been guilty of it before.
Sorry to all if I high-jacked the thread - not intended.
Thanks.....I'm working backwards on your list. I have already had the funeral, I have been raising my son alone for last nine years. I've worked hard on prepare and prevention. I'm aware of disaster happens. I'm not sure how the story will end, I just hope the pages turn slowly.
On the "facebook" (which I take as an example of all social media). I cannot "out technology" my son. I don't monitor his usage. We are not there yet on a vehicle. If he is as slick as I was, he would know how to disconnect/connect the odometer. You (in the general sense, not you particularly) can only out maneuver your son for so long, if he has the will, he will eventually shut you out if the "monitoring" continues.
Go44dad posted:Thanks.....I'm working backwards on your list. I have already had the funeral, I have been raising my son alone for last nine years. I've worked hard on prepare and prevention. I'm aware of disaster happens. I'm not sure how the story will end, I just hope the pages turn slowly.
On the "facebook" (which I take as an example of all social media). I cannot "out technology" my son. I don't monitor his usage. We are not there yet on a vehicle. If he is as slick as I was, he would know how to disconnect/connect the odometer. You (in the general sense, not you particularly) can only out maneuver your son for so long, if he has the will, he will eventually shut you out if the "monitoring" continues.
Truly sorry to hear that. Worst thing there is.
Kids are very slippery when they want to be. Sadly if I had it to do over again things like Location devices in engines and drones might be hardware to consider going forward.
Monitoring is a balance act. Act right for a certain period of time and then give a little. Break trust and then that must have consequence. What motivates any specific kid will probably be different - phone access, video games, car time etc. Find the thing with worth to them and don't make empty threats. If you say you will take it for 3 days - take it for 3 days. Don't add to it and don't subtract. Consistency has value.
As you note the risk is they bail out anyway. Not an easy balancing act. When you have one that "sails" through without any major issues and all you have is a few grade or lateness problems that go away when challenged, it is a mixture of relief and joy.
Fight the good fight.
CaCO3Girl posted:2019Lefty21 posted:My son is "graduating" to high school baseball this spring and 17U this summer. Seems to me that is also a place that parents need to "graduate" their thinking from what I call little league mentality to something more. I have read many things about how parents overdo it with their kids and the recent thread of "gunning" a 9 year old. We are all NOT that way ! My son only plays baseball competitively now...no more soccer no more church basketball. All his choice. For those of you who think that is not good for a soon to be 15 year old, read this. "MLB has been tweeting videos of spring training BP and bull pens and I've watched every video just to listen to the sounds of baseball again "...that is from my son the day pitchers and catchers reported. My parents ask me all the time if he is "having fun playing baseball".....what do you think?
2019, it is different strokes for different folks and I agree that HS would be a great time for parents to do some growing up. There are fanaticals in any sub-group of people, baseball parents can be extreme in both directions. Do you as a parent say "I have zero control over what the coach does with my kid that is HIS call"...or do you say "I think I need to educate the coach on exactly how his batting order should be and where my kid should be playing"? Hopefully by high school there is more of the first and less of the latter with the dose of reality that if it affects my child's health I will speak up, and I don't care who you are!
The real battle is becoming educated on what will affect a kids health, and this board is great for that. One sport, or multiple sport...that's been played out on here. Typical rest periods and exercises to be done between mound times...also very good information on here. Playing travel and High School at the same time...also been discussed. Places to attend, what organizations are reputable...also discussed at length.
I think my hope for high school baseball, which will also be next year, is that parents in general are more educated about what their role should be regarding their child's baseball team.
What you're going to see in high school is the parents of recent 14u studs miffed their son didn't make varsity. Practice you're "uh huhs." And plan your escape route when you arrive at the park.
Go44dad posted:ok, with civility and less the sarcasm....
In context of the thread, with regards to "fumes, friends and older siblings", and beyond awareness of, what are you suggesting other parents do?
My point is you cannot lock a child in a room while he is turning into a man and keep him away from life's "perils" of cars, women and other influences ("friends, older siblings")
You do the best Job raising and influencing your kids up to about age fourteen. About that point you start losing control due to their freedom. You have to hope what you taught them sank in.
I gave my kids one important piece of advice in high school ... If you think you may be some place you shouldn't chances are you're right. Leave.
When my kids were in high school I told them who the drug users were. They were shocked how accurate is was. They asked how I knew. I watched how they behaved when they were twelve to fourteen. I weighed that against how they were handled by their parents.
My son and a bunch of friends were caught drinking at a New Years Party when they were twelve. The girls talked the boys into securing alcohol. My son was given the harshest discipline. Alcohol was never a problem in high school. The kid who received zero discipline was arrested in high school for being a drug dealer.
RJM posted:CaCO3Girl postedWhat you're going to see in high school is the parents of recent 14u studs miffed their son didn't make varsity. Practice you're "uh huhs." And plan your escape route when you arrive at the park.
Well, since it is a 6A school surrounded by very well known 17u national power houses one would HOPE parents would be thrilled by their son making the JV team, I would be!
RJM posted:What you're going to see in high school is the parents of recent 14u studs miffed their son didn't make varsity. Practice you're "uh huhs." And plan your escape route when you arrive at the park.
That's not a problem at our local HS. The current varsity coach doesn't even consider freshman for varsity. If you're a freshman you'll be on the JV team if you survive tryouts.
We knew of one that actually transferred to another school because he didn't make varsity as a freshman. The transfer was contested and he sat for most of his sophomore year while it was settled.
We all know those "non-athletic" kids and their older siblings are the root of all evil....that right there is pathetic.
RJM posted:CaCO3Girl posted:2019Lefty21 posted:My son is "graduating" to high school baseball this spring and 17U this summer. Seems to me that is also a place that parents need to "graduate" their thinking from what I call little league mentality to something more. I have read many things about how parents overdo it with their kids and the recent thread of "gunning" a 9 year old. We are all NOT that way ! My son only plays baseball competitively now...no more soccer no more church basketball. All his choice. For those of you who think that is not good for a soon to be 15 year old, read this. "MLB has been tweeting videos of spring training BP and bull pens and I've watched every video just to listen to the sounds of baseball again "...that is from my son the day pitchers and catchers reported. My parents ask me all the time if he is "having fun playing baseball".....what do you think?
2019, it is different strokes for different folks and I agree that HS would be a great time for parents to do some growing up. There are fanaticals in any sub-group of people, baseball parents can be extreme in both directions. Do you as a parent say "I have zero control over what the coach does with my kid that is HIS call"...or do you say "I think I need to educate the coach on exactly how his batting order should be and where my kid should be playing"? Hopefully by high school there is more of the first and less of the latter with the dose of reality that if it affects my child's health I will speak up, and I don't care who you are!
The real battle is becoming educated on what will affect a kids health, and this board is great for that. One sport, or multiple sport...that's been played out on here. Typical rest periods and exercises to be done between mound times...also very good information on here. Playing travel and High School at the same time...also been discussed. Places to attend, what organizations are reputable...also discussed at length.
I think my hope for high school baseball, which will also be next year, is that parents in general are more educated about what their role should be regarding their child's baseball team.
What you're going to see in high school is the parents of recent 14u studs miffed their son didn't make varsity. Practice you're "uh huhs." And plan your escape route when you arrive at the park.
If it's one thing I don't teach my kid, it's entitlement. He will end up where he deserves to be.
His high school is at the highest level (7A) in one of the most competitive counties in the country so he'll be fortunate to make the 9th grade team. JV would be a very long shot since no freshman made the JV team this year, much less varsity.
I never understood why people care so much what level their kid plays at as a frosh or soph. If he plays freshman next year he will be a main cog in the wheel! If he plays JV he will fit right in and will play vs. Better competition. Very doubtful he would play varsity as it is a very very good program. Why would I want him to sit the bench?
My daughter encountered a slightly off crowd her last year of high school. Much prefer kids learn to deal with that while they live at home and I'm there to support them, rather than wait until their first year of college when it's harder to be there and be supportive, whatever goes on.
2020dad posted:I never understood why people care so much what level their kid plays at as a frosh or soph. If he plays freshman next year he will be a main cog in the wheel! If he plays JV he will fit right in and will play vs. Better competition. Very doubtful he would play varsity as it is a very very good program. Why would I want him to sit the bench?
This is another one of those careful what you wish for deals too. Your stud 14/15 year old rising sophomore gets promoted to the varsity in the summer. Whoooohooo!
You go to the first scrimmage 3 days later and see the varsity kids for the first time. Your boy rips 3 bullets on his way to a 2-3, 3 RBI game with a couple of decent defensive plays. Whoooohooo! He looks like a natural and fits in with the other players. After the game he says he's going to get a ride home with the guys. He's on his way now.
Three days after that you are at the 7-11 and you see the Star Sr. player, who was driving that car home from the game. He is at the counter buying rolling papers. Uhhhhhh.... OHHHH NOOOOO!
luv baseball posted:2020dad posted:I never understood why people care so much what level their kid plays at as a frosh or soph. If he plays freshman next year he will be a main cog in the wheel! If he plays JV he will fit right in and will play vs. Better competition. Very doubtful he would play varsity as it is a very very good program. Why would I want him to sit the bench?
This is another one of those careful what you wish for deals too. Your stud 14/15 year old rising sophomore gets promoted to the varsity in the summer. Whoooohooo!
You go to the first scrimmage 3 days later and see the varsity kids for the first time. Your boy rips 3 bullets on his way to a 2-3, 3 RBI game with a couple of decent defensive plays. Whoooohooo! He looks like a natural and fits in with the other players. After the game he says he's going to get a ride home with the guys. He's on his way now.
Three days after that you are at the 7-11 and you see the Star Sr. player, who was driving that car home from the game. He is at the counter buying rolling papers. Uhhhhhh.... OHHHH NOOOOO!
that's a funny (kind of) story. experience the same sort of issue when my son went from 8th grade to varsity football as a 9th grader. they grow up fast that way. Luckily his older brother was a senior on the team. Seriously though- I looked at it as a good thing. He came through it fine, made the right choices, and gained confidence in himself along the way. Can't shield them from reality forever.
Having been a HS Coach, I can tell you that the chatter and conversation is much different between the JV and V dugout. There are some things 14 year old boys just don't need to hear yet.
I really don't think there is one formula on how to do this. Every kid is different and will respond to consequences differently. My father was very tough on me and I responded by rebelling and getting into a lot of trouble. Maybe I would have done that without the strictness, but I know it didn't work with me. I tried not to be overly strict with my kids. Maybe i was too soft, but they are 22 and 20 now and pretty good, well adjusted kids. 22 is a senior in college and playing D2 baseball. 20 year old is a sophomore in college and seems to have things pretty well together.
I think I may have a little more unique position on some of this. My older son played baseball and has been his life since he was 7 years old. He has made lifelong friends and many of his teammates will be his brothers for life. Now that he is in college and away from home, his teammates are his friends. However, growing up, his teammates were not his best friends. He had a group of guys that he grew up with since as long as he could remember. None of them were baseball guys. Most were athletes through HS. When he wasn't playing baseball, these were the guys he spent time with. Personally, I thought it was good for him. It prevented burnout. He spent so much time - like most of our kids - either at practice, driving to tournaments, playing in tournaments, going to private lessons, etc... - that it was good for him to spend free time doing what "normal" kids did - away from his sport. This was his way to kind of be a normal kid and not just a baseball kid 24/7. Maybe I'm wrong, but I know as a 22 year old senior college baseball player, he still loves the game. I think the separation thing had a lot to do with that.
I'll also share that when he was a freshman in HS, he pitched for the varsity team. Yes, it was somewhat of a shock in terms of behavior and language, but he dealt with it pretty well. Of course he received his share of getting picked on and taking on the mundane baseball chores that the upperclassmen didn't want to do, but he took it all in stride and came out the other side. I think if we prepare the kids to make good decisions, how to have self-confidence, how to have a thick skin, how to joke around and give it as much as it is given, then they should be ok.
Did my boys made some bad decisions? yeah. Did they get in a little trouble here and there? yeah. But nothing life shattering. Nothing that will have long lasting consequences. I am proud of both of them. I think they've turned into very respectable, nice young men...
Shoveit4Ks posted:We all know those "non-athletic" kids and their older siblings are the root of all evil....that right there is pathetic.
Sarcasm as discussion again. I will amplify and clarify my post since I now realize it might require a smidge of thought and imagination that I should refrain from the assumption is shared by everyone.
The majority of the kids not playing sports or related activities like or band, Cheerleading, Pep Clubs etc. really don't do a lot with their time. A little except from real research on the subject:
High school athletes are more likely than non-athletes to attend college and get degrees; team captains, MVPs achieve in school at even higher rates (US Dept. of Education, 2005). The benefits extend to the workplace. A survey of 400 female corporate executives found 94% played a sport and that 61% say that has contributed to their career success (EY Women Athletes Business Network/espnW, 2014).
Social/Psychological Benefits
A number of studies provide support for the premise that physical activity, and sports in particular, can positively affect aspects of personal development among young people, such as self-esteem, goal-setting, and leadership. However, evidence indicates that the quality of coaching is a key factor in maximizing positive effects (GAO, 2012).
Compared to non-athlete peers, female high school athletes are less likely to be sexually active, to use drugs, and to suffer from depression (Women's Sports Foundation, 2004). A correlation has been found between regular exercise and mental health among students in general as they move into the teenage years. Among students who exercised 6 to 7 days a week, 25.1% felt sad for two weeks or more in the past 12 months, compared to 35.7% of students who reported exercising on 0 to 1 day. Of students who exercised 6-7 days, 15% reported suicidal ideation, and 6.4% reported a suicide attempt in the past year, compared to 24.6% and 10.3% of students who exercised 0-1 day, respectively (Journal of American Academy of Child & Adolescent Psychiatry, 2015).
As the old proverb goes "Idle hands are the Devils workshop". So yes - kids just hanging out could be described as the "Root of all Evil". They are a group that is more likely to accomplish less in life not to mention use drugs & alcohol. Older siblings who act similarly are both role models and access. To simplify for Shovel and those that might require it: Think along the lines of "It runs in the family" or "Monkey see Monkey do." A little more real research on this subject:
In the aftermath of the bombings in Boston many of us have been thinking a lot about siblings — particularly how older siblings can shape the lives of younger siblings. But until pretty recently, the role siblings play in determining the trajectory of each other's lives hasn't been a particularly hot topic in psychological research. Psychologists, very understandably, have focused on the influences they see as more important — such as parents and peers and genetics.
But in the past decade that's been changing a bit. Psychologists interested in how siblings affect one another are taking a new look at all kinds of behavior, particularly anti-social behavior.
Consider, for example, the research that looks at how much a parent who smokes influences his child to smoke, versus the degree to which an older sibling who smokes influences a younger sibling.
"Both can have an effect, but in a lot of studies they've found that the effect 'older sibling smoking' has is greater than the effect that 'parental smoking' has," Rende says.
It's the opposite of what many people assumed, he says. Older siblings are more influential.
As part of his research, Rende gives sibling pairs electronic devices like cellphones that, every half hour, prompt both siblings to report what they're doing. Through such reports you can actually see each one ghosting the other's behavior, he says.
"When one sibling is smoking — in real time [we see] they're having a cigarette, and the other sibling is very likely to report smoking at the same time."
In fact, when one sibling is a smoker, the other is 25 percent more likely to smoke. With drinking the risk is even higher; a person is 36 percent more likely to drink if a sibling does.
Rende, by the way, believes that the reverse is also true. Good behavior in older siblings can be as contagious as bad. It just seems that — particularly when families are struggling — the fate of the kids is more tethered to their siblings than we originally thought. For good and, apparently, for bad.
This is not the only place that drugs or alcohol use exists which I note above in my post about 7-11. You don't have to be exposed to too many HS kids to realize if their time is filled with something productive the risk diminishes significantly.
I abbreviated in my earlier post to spare the lengthy detailed explanation (presumably unnecessary due to blatant obviousness) : sports as activity, friends and their siblings do matter.
Shovel - If you were trolling and got me to bite and waste 30 minutes on responding - good on you. I come to this site to avoid that stuff but maybe it is changing. If you were serious - and to use your word - that is pathetic stuff out of you on a serious topic. You should be ashamed.
Luv, I understand what you are saying, but I will also point out that often times older siblings wind up setting a negative example that younger siblings learn from and consequently try to stay away from. I saw it in my family growing up. And I have seen and heard it expressed many times from people I know. Comments such as "I saw what drugs did to my older brother and I made the decision to stay away from that". I know my siblings saw the things I did and the trouble I got into and they have all told me that my negative behavior influenced them to NOT do the things I did. And, not to get political, I have heard Donald Trump tell his story about how his older brother Fred was a big drinker and smoker and died as a result of it. Trump has never drank or smoked as a result of seeing the negative consequences of that lifestyle of his older brother.
Some of the kids my son hung out with turned into not very good people to emulate. He recognizes that and does not emulate that behavior and acknowledges that they are "stupid" for doing the things they do. He'll still see some of them when he's back from school since they are lifelong friends, but knows that they do not make good decisions and definitely does not let their behavior influence him.
Once again, it absolutely depends on the person. Some people may tend to follow more, some may tend to be their own person. Get to know your kid. Know what influences them and come up with a plan. And if you have more than one kid, the plan will most likely be different for each...
BBallman - Agree with that - My brother died drunk driving a motorcycle. I vowed that would never happen to me. But I was 2+ years older and he saw me pounding beer at 17 when he was 15. I have lived a long time wondering if I contributed to his death.
Not trying to state any absolutes. Just how scales tip. Vegas gets rich on the odds. How many 5'10" Dads have 6'4" sons. Enough to know that it is a crap shoot and there are exceptions but chances are more likely that he'll be 5'11 or 6'.
I think some of you live in a completely different reality than mine. In our area, a lot of those 14 and 15 year olds can teach the seniors a thing or two about illicit behavior. The biggest party thrown so far this school year has been by Sophomores. It got a good portion of the winter varsity athletes suspended from their sport and was attended by kids from every grade. The reality is, whatever kids say in the dugout is being said in school too - in the hallways, in the lunch room, in the locker room, etc. I have a senior girl, so there have always been older kids around my son. Some of them are pot smokers and most are drinkers. But, a lot of kids in my son's class are also pot smokers and drinkers and they have been since middle school. Even the athletes get "turnt up" on the weekends. It's pretty easy to figure out where kids fit by a quick look at their social media accounts. Kids these days put everything on social media and then can't figure out how school security knows what they've been up to. Another eye opener is to find out how many students in your high school have kids. Our school has a nursery and preschool, and it's not just the Seniors having kids ![]()
My son played varsity as a Freshman. He was part-time during Spring and then full time varsity in the summer. He didn't really face any razzing from the older kids, but he knew most of them through his older sister. The kids on varsity are actually better influences than the kids on the Freshmen and JV teams.
bballdad2016 posted:Having been a HS Coach, I can tell you that the chatter and conversation is much different between the JV and V dugout. There are some things 14 year old boys just don't need to hear yet.
If a kid is in high school whatever he might hear in the dugout he's also going to hear in the cafeteria and on the bus. In our district the middle and high school kids ride the same bus. My daughter was offered a joint when she was in 6th grade. How you raise your kids allows them to make the right decisions.
i was going to report the kid the next day. By the time I had a chance to go by the school she had been suspended. She had made the offer to others. She was caught getting high in the woods behind the football stadium.
When I coached 18u Gold softball I heard things I didn't want to hear. Was I supposed to tell my daughter, "I'm going to impede your track to college ball. As a freshman you're too young to hear what the older girls discuss."
Seems we both have a valid point.
Did my boys made some bad decisions? yeah. Did they get in a little trouble here and there? yeah. But nothing life shattering. Nothing that will have long lasting consequences. I am proud of both of them. I think they've turned into very respectable, nice young men..
I hope I can come back in a few years and post this same message.
Luv, i dont troll. Plenty of HS athletes and college athletes waste time and participate in those other activities while holding to their schedules, i can only imagine how they would be if they weren't participating. I get the idle hands thing, not all kids are perfect and every generation has the heads, hippies or druggies/partiers. i often see the most sheltered ones (athletes or whatever) off the rails when they finally get their freedom...in other words, when they leave home where their parents control their lives. We chose to let our kids live and experience life so that when they are adults and out of our house, they can function and not be afraid to live.
HS sports is taken so seriously these days. My school was always in the running in D1 CIF-SS but we didn't have year-round basketball or travel baseball. Back then every 3-sport star was in the running for scholarships. Now coaches want kids to specialize early so that they can get good asap.
This thread has morphed somewhat into a behavioral conversation. When my kids were little I allowed them to make decisions that would affect them. They weren't decisions that would have difficult consequences. Just impact they would notice. It allowed them to understand decisions have consequences.
An example was when my son was five. He would bug me for a second ice cream every time the truck came by. It drove me crazy. I decided to give him a weekly allowance for the ice cream truck. He did exactly as I expected. He went through the money in three days. For the next four days he had to sit and watch his friends eat ice cream. He learned his decisions have consequences. He learned a real lesson without harm to his life.
RJM posted:I decided to give him a weekly allowance
RJM, come on, you 'gave' your kid money? What happened to working? He was 5 already, he could have shoveled coal, or sanded floors or something ![]()
Ice cream truck came seven days a week? Ice cream every day? Starting to sound like a cushy life the kid had. I'm hoping my kid would have started loan sharking early in the week to help pay for those last four days.
FoxDad posted:RJM posted:What you're going to see in high school is the parents of recent 14u studs miffed their son didn't make varsity. Practice you're "uh huhs." And plan your escape route when you arrive at the park.
That's not a problem at our local HS. The current varsity coach doesn't even consider freshman for varsity. If you're a freshman you'll be on the JV team if you survive tryouts.
We knew of one that actually transferred to another school because he didn't make varsity as a freshman. The transfer was contested and he sat for most of his sophomore year while it was settled.
My son became the first opening day soph in six years. A teammate became the first opening day freshman that year. He's still the only one five years later. But it doesn't stop the 14u parents from complaining.
In softball freshman starters are more commonplace. Girls mature physically sooner. Five freshman started my daughter's freshman year. The team went from 4-18 to conference champions. In this case it was upperclass parents of replaced starters who had to be tuned out. It was freshman parents who spent the season going "uh huh" and walking away. The following year three more freshmen started (future D2/3). Due to this freak two year period in following years the parents of 14u studdettes expected their girls to start. **
** A few of us planned for this. The high school was a perennial bottom feeder. The 4-18 team was part of a 32 game losing streak. We all pulled our girls from rec. We created a 12u travel team when the girls were ten and eleven. By high school the girls were dispersed on several elite teams.
CaCO3Girl posted:hshuler posted:Agreed! Personally, I try to show my son examples of good and not so good decision-making. The point that I really try to drive home is that ALL (not most) of your decisions should line up with you desired outcome(s) in life...and one bad decision can overtake a whole lots of good ones. But at the end of the day, I can't choose for him and I am at peace with that...and most importantly, the fact that the Good Lord will hear my fatherly prayers as well.
You are a better person than I will ever be. I grudgingly accept that in the end it is my children's choices that will turn them into the adults they are going to be...I don't have to like it or be at peace with it.
A promising young local athlete had a scholarship lined up to a dream school and it all ended because he thought it would be hilarious to ask a girl to the prom by hanging a sign around a goats head that said "Will you GOAT with me to the prom?"...the owner of the goat didn't appreciate the goat being "borrowed" for the night. Raise your hand if this sounds like something your kid might consider as funny, harmless, and would never for one moment think it would cost him his future?
That is more of the problem with the over reaction of authority. 30 years ago I couldn't see that happening.
lionbaseball posted:CaCO3Girl posted:hshuler posted:Agreed! Personally, I try to show my son examples of good and not so good decision-making. The point that I really try to drive home is that ALL (not most) of your decisions should line up with you desired outcome(s) in life...and one bad decision can overtake a whole lots of good ones. But at the end of the day, I can't choose for him and I am at peace with that...and most importantly, the fact that the Good Lord will hear my fatherly prayers as well.
You are a better person than I will ever be. I grudgingly accept that in the end it is my children's choices that will turn them into the adults they are going to be...I don't have to like it or be at peace with it.
A promising young local athlete had a scholarship lined up to a dream school and it all ended because he thought it would be hilarious to ask a girl to the prom by hanging a sign around a goats head that said "Will you GOAT with me to the prom?"...the owner of the goat didn't appreciate the goat being "borrowed" for the night. Raise your hand if this sounds like something your kid might consider as funny, harmless, and would never for one moment think it would cost him his future?
That is more of the problem with the over reaction of authority. 30 years ago I couldn't see that happening.
I would agree, but it still cost the kid his scholarship and his spot on a national 17u travel team. The rules are beyond silly right now but they are the rules that can change a kids life.
Case in point. In October, during a pep rally my 8th grader was eavesdropping on the conversation in front of him, the other 8th grader boy (who was sitting next to his girlfriend) decided to stand up, scream at my son, shove him, flip his shirt over his head and pummel him. I get a call from the police to say they are reviewing the tapes to see if they are arresting him.
Unfortunately/Fortunetly my son never got off a single jab at the guy. The other boy was arrested and charged with simple battery against my son, 6 months probation, and fines. I was told if he had touched the boy to even shove him back my son would have also been arrested.
The days of a common boy fight in school not having long lasting repercussions are over!
lionbaseball posted:CaCO3Girl posted:hshuler posted:Agreed! Personally, I try to show my son examples of good and not so good decision-making. The point that I really try to drive home is that ALL (not most) of your decisions should line up with you desired outcome(s) in life...and one bad decision can overtake a whole lots of good ones. But at the end of the day, I can't choose for him and I am at peace with that...and most importantly, the fact that the Good Lord will hear my fatherly prayers as well.
You are a better person than I will ever be. I grudgingly accept that in the end it is my children's choices that will turn them into the adults they are going to be...I don't have to like it or be at peace with it.
A promising young local athlete had a scholarship lined up to a dream school and it all ended because he thought it would be hilarious to ask a girl to the prom by hanging a sign around a goats head that said "Will you GOAT with me to the prom?"...the owner of the goat didn't appreciate the goat being "borrowed" for the night. Raise your hand if this sounds like something your kid might consider as funny, harmless, and would never for one moment think it would cost him his future?
That is more of the problem with the over reaction of authority. 30 years ago I couldn't see that happening.
Hard to blame law enforcement. What are they supposed to do? If the goat owner doesn't want to let it go, they can't refuse to enforce laws against theft. Now, I sort of blame the college. No one forced them to pull his scholly.
That kid's prank involved going onto private property, taking the goat, putting him in a truck, and driving off with him. If you think that it's overreaction by the authorities to respond to the landowner's complaint, investigate, and make an arrest, well I hope you don't call the police if anybody steals your stuff.
JCG posted:That kid's prank involved going onto private property, taking the goat, putting him in a truck, and driving off with him. If you think that it's overreaction by the authorities to respond to the landowner's complaint, investigate, and make an arrest, well I hope you don't call the police if anybody steals your stuff.
It was a goat, it was borrowed, it wasn't harmed, it was a prank. No I wouldn't press charges on something like this and possibly ruin a kids life.
Now we had 3 varsity football players break into a team mates house this past year and steal cash, gun, and some other stuff. The homeowner didn't press charges but my son told the head coach he wasn't going to QB the team if those delinquents were allowed to play.
Do you see the difference in the above situations?
Did the kid tell the owner he was taking the goat, and did the owner grant his permission? If the answer to both questions is yes, then my bad. If not that, it's theft. The decision on whether the owner presses charges is irrelevant because it wouldn't happen until after the police found out what happened. If you disagree, that's fine. Please post your address so I can swing by your house and grab your radar gun.
JCG posted:Did the kid tell the owner he was taking the goat, and did the owner grant his permission? If the answer to both questions is yes, then my bad. If not that, it's theft. The decision on whether the owner presses charges is irrelevant because it wouldn't happen until after the police found out what happened. If you disagree, that's fine. Please post your address so I can swing by your house and grab your radar gun.
The kid did not tell the owner, he snuck onto the property, and grabbed the goat. The owner saw him and took down the license plate. In a later article the owner said that had the kid come to him and asked he probably would have lent him the goat but stealing is stealing and he should be held accountable for what he did.
CaCO3Girl posted:JCG posted:Did the kid tell the owner he was taking the goat, and did the owner grant his permission? If the answer to both questions is yes, then my bad. If not that, it's theft. The decision on whether the owner presses charges is irrelevant because it wouldn't happen until after the police found out what happened. If you disagree, that's fine. Please post your address so I can swing by your house and grab your radar gun.
The kid did not tell the owner, he snuck onto the property, and grabbed the goat. The owner saw him and took down the license plate. In a later article the owner said that had the kid come to him and asked he probably would have lent him the goat but stealing is stealing and he should be held accountable for what he did.
This is probably the most ridiculous thing I have heard why someone lost a scholarship. Because they stole a goat? Did he actually serve time in the pen (sorry this is just too funny). If I were the coach I would be lmao. Unless he had some previous or serious issues, I wanna know what coach has no sense of humor. Could you find the article.
I could name a player playing MLB who got busted 9 years ago for MIP (minor in possesion) before draft and was the first pick for his team.
Google "teens steal goat georgia" and you will find a whole bunch of articles on it.
bballman posted:Google "teens steal goat georgia" and you will find a whole bunch of articles on it.
I wasn't doubting the incident just where it said kid lost his scholarship.
I couldn't find anything on that. Looked like one of the 3 kids listed was/is a baseball player with a PG profile. No college commitment listed. Maybe CaCO3Girl has some inside information.
Well that's what I am questioning. I mean gets get into all sorts of issues and they don't lose scholarships over it. It was wrong but kids are kids. If I were the coach, me and my staff probably would get a good chuckle out of that one.
I don't want any inside scoop. I want the real story.
bballman posted:Google "teens steal goat georgia" and you will find a whole bunch of articles on it.
If you do, you will clearly see that said teen brought the Goat Baaaaaaaaack to the owner. : )
TPM posted:Well that's what I am questioning. I mean gets get into all sorts of issues and they don't lose scholarships over it. It was wrong but kids are kids. If I were the coach, me and my staff probably would get a good chuckle out of that one.
I don't want any inside scoop. I want the real story.
I'm thinking the D1 coach didn't want someone on his roster that was recently arrested on a slew of charges, I don't blame the guy. There has to be something in the agreement like a morality clause.
The one boy played for a VERY well known local team, national titles...etc. The 17u team kicked him off of it and his scholly got pulled from a D1. However, a smaller D3 school picked him up.
The article doesn't mention anything about baseball or the affect this had on his baseball, I heard that first hand from one of the coaches of his summer team. In short the stance was that there are hundreds of kids who wanted to be on this team and they were giving the shot to another boy who might able to make something out of the exposure, as opposed to this young man who was facing multiple charges.
Multiple charges? For what? What type of coach discusses this with a parent anyway? What was the D1 school? What is the 17u program?
