Oh, sorry, I was just kidding because Wisconsin doesn't have a baseball team (and thus wouldn't have to pay for it). In all seriousness, any school without a baseball program shouldn't get to vote on it, but it wouldn't have changed the outcome in any event. 

That is disappointing but not surprising.  This is driven by the current structure and supply and demand.  There is an abundance of guys trying to climb the ladder who would jump at the chance to coach at the D1 level even as a volunteer assistant.  They are often drawn with the immediate promise of camp/lesson money and the long term carrot of a paid position.  The pipeline is stuffed not only with guys who have finished their college playing careers but with MiLB and MLB players who have reached the end of their playing days and don't want to leave the game and/or just don't know anything else nearly as well as they know baseball.  MLB guys will often get a pass to the head of the line but everyone else has to pay their dues and it's a big club with few actual seats at the table.

This speaks volumes about the conference's actual commitment to the sport. A siren song is sung to candidates for head coaching vacancies by the AD's; telling them that there's as much commitment as exists at other P5 conferences. Then, they arrive and find out that that's not actually the case.

It also gives me immense respect for those who coach in the conference; particularly when they stand out for their success. Coaching is always a challenge to do well. It's particularly so in the Big 10. Kudos to them!

I don't know why the NCAA regulates how coaches get paid. Put a cap on the number of total coaches, fine. But to say that only two can be paid is ridiculous. 

That being said, I don't know if it is completely necessary to pay a third assistant. Either way, they're doing alright. Went to a camp last year at a Big 10 school. $350 dollars for the two day camp. 150 kids there. If they hold two of these camps a year and are only taking away the cost to produce t-shirts then they're walking away with a nice check. 

CTbballDad posted:

Sorry, but I'm so tired of the increasing cost of colleges, mostly driven by higher administrative costs.  Another paid coach just increases the athletic fees leved on the student. Two is fine by me.

Not sure if that is an accurate root cause statement across the board.  I would say almost all states colleges and universities (textbook Big 10) are feeling the pressure of reduced state financial support while our taxes seem to be going up.   Guess, who gets to make up the difference?  Yep, you and me (see picture below).   I suspect that is the #1 cause of rising tuition in our country.  Our elected leadership gives lip service to higher education affordability and opportunities while our College Presidents and ADs are in an arms race.  This has been going on for years, and colleges & universities presidents are forced to find new revenues through athletics, conference alignment, TV deaLS, grants & research, and any other means.

If this topic interests you, check out  Murray Sperber's "Beer and Circus"  https://www.amazon.com/Beer-Ci...cation/dp/0805068112   I read this many years ago and it was very eye opening.

 

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Son went to the recent ABCA convention and there was an entire presentation on how to "get around" this issue by building in positions that have titles other than Assistant Coach.

It's a shame that they have to.  It definitely takes more than two guys to run a successful baseball program at the college level.  Many tasks are given to each but we're not just talking about hitting fungo's and coaching the bases.  

Just off the top of my head, practice planning, recruiting, travel arrangements, compliance, equipment/uniform management, game scheduling, academic tracking/guidance, managing website and other media, scouting/game plan, game management, strength and conditioning, pitching programs, camp coordination, facility scheduling, trainer coordination, team physchologist/spiritual leader, fund raising, oh yeah, and actually coaching several hours a day.  Besides, with only two, it definitely limits what is so important to the players - getting sufficient qualified individual instruction to maximize their abilities.

Administration levels are very thick at most colleges.  Yeah, football brings in more money but it also costs way more and the players are all attending for free in most instances.  Most baseball players are contributing tuition and room/board money to the university.  The spend is warranted.

Considering the word is that the salary for the "new" assistant if it happens is expected to be in the $50-75k range it seems pretty ridiculous that schools with the money that the B1G schools have wouldn't be for it.  I could see some of the mid-majors and smaller D1's not wanting to do it, but for schools in a P5 it's kind of a joke that they wouldn't fund it. 

cabbagedad posted:

Son went to the recent ABCA convention and there was an entire presentation on how to "get around" this issue by building in positions that have titles other than Assistant Coach.

 

Maybe the NCAA has caught on to this.  Utah got caught using the Director of Baseball Operations to help out at practices, costing the assistant his job and the head coach a 14 game suspension.

cabbagedad posted:

Son went to the recent ABCA convention and there was an entire presentation on how to "get around" this issue by building in positions that have titles other than Assistant Coach.

It's a shame that they have to.  It definitely takes more than two guys to run a successful baseball program at the college level.  Many tasks are given to each but we're not just talking about hitting fungo's and coaching the bases.  

Just off the top of my head, practice planning, recruiting, travel arrangements, compliance, equipment/uniform management, game scheduling, academic tracking/guidance, managing website and other media, scouting/game plan, game management, strength and conditioning, pitching programs, camp coordination, facility scheduling, trainer coordination, team physchologist/spiritual leader, fund raising, oh yeah, and actually coaching several hours a day.  Besides, with only two, it definitely limits what is so important to the players - getting sufficient qualified individual instruction to maximize their abilities.

Administration levels are very thick at most colleges.  Yeah, football brings in more money but it also costs way more and the players are all attending for free in most instances.  Most baseball players are contributing tuition and room/board money to the university.  The spend is warranted.

Wouldn't it be a good thing if schools were getting around it by using titles other than assistant coach? Meaning that more guys are helping out and more guys are getting paid. It definitely takes more than 2, but there are at least 4 bodies involved at every school. 

As of right now there is only one assistant not being paid. That assistant will be making his money thru camps and appearances at other showcases/camps. Go to any school in the Big 10s site. They have camps all year round with the prospect camps in the summer pulling in 100+ kids. They are getting their check. Volunteer Assistant's are either young guys looking to get a foot in the door or older guys who know they are getting a nice check from the camp end of things. Either way, they know what they're getting into.

These guys are putting in serious work without a doubt and I'm all for them getting paid. Whether that be thru camps or salary. But just because it is proposed, does not mean it needs to be granted. I think as a whole it will create a bigger divide between schools with small budgets who can barely afford a 2nd assistant and P5 schools with bigger pockets. If anything I think the Big 10 is doing the non P5 schools a favor. 

There are some valid points, PA... makes for a good topic of discussion.  

Son relies partially on camp money.  It is very difficult when that is largely an unknown.  Granted, this is a smaller school - maybe it's more consistent at bigger schools.  I believe he also can make $ via lessons but extremely difficult to find time slots he can do it with the other responsibilities to the program.  

I see many small private schools (not D1) with much lengthier coach rosters than three, often six or more.  Pretty sure that, in most cases, more than two are being paid.  Anyone know what the rules are regarding other D1 conferences, D2, D3?  NAIA seems to have much looser regulations and seems to be guided more by each school's budget.

Smitty28 posted:
cabbagedad posted:

Son went to the recent ABCA convention and there was an entire presentation on how to "get around" this issue by building in positions that have titles other than Assistant Coach.

 

Maybe the NCAA has caught on to this.  Utah got caught using the Director of Baseball Operations to help out at practices, costing the assistant his job and the head coach a 14 game suspension.

Ouch.  On the surface, it doesn't seem to make sense when the coaches have to do so many administrative functions but the person in a more administrative role can't cross over and help with some coaching functions.  Obviously, I'm coming at this from a coaching perspective - don't have a full grasp on the admin, legal and regulatory issues.

cabbagedad posted:
Smitty28 posted:
cabbagedad posted:

Son went to the recent ABCA convention and there was an entire presentation on how to "get around" this issue by building in positions that have titles other than Assistant Coach.

 

Maybe the NCAA has caught on to this.  Utah got caught using the Director of Baseball Operations to help out at practices, costing the assistant his job and the head coach a 14 game suspension.

Ouch.  On the surface, it doesn't seem to make sense when the coaches have to do so many administrative functions but the person in a more administrative role can't cross over and help with some coaching functions.  Obviously, I'm coming at this from a coaching perspective - don't have a full grasp on the admin, legal and regulatory issues.

I imagine this is a competitive balance issue.  With 300 D1 teams, the rules help the teams with the lowest funding compete.  If the bigger, richer schools were allowed to pay what they could afford, the lower end would be left behind and it would break up the D1 model into multiple tiers.

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