Do all College coaches lie when recruiting?

Wow, that's a lot of not lining up.  What is particularly confusing is that you said you/he did your homework, implying (I think) that those things you were told were substantiated by others either in or close to the program.  Who did you do homework with? Was there a significant change in the program?  

That is disturbing! Is your son already at school or still being recruited? 

Wow ... a college coach that lies doesn't last long. You can't keep those things from future recruits and parents. When we sit down and talk to a recruit and their parents it's as straight as it can be. Not to say some coaches may not be as straightforward as they should be but lying is counter productive to the program. I will say there may be some misunderstanding about certain aspects of the programs but I'm sure they are available to the athletes. It may be true that Coaches do not take players by the hand and walk them through such things as study halls and seeing advisors and many other things. It's up to the student to seek these things out. In some cases parents get second hand info from the player or they hear what they want to hear at the meetings. There are a lot of things that can be misinterpreted especially when a kid jumps from HS where everything is monitored and controlled and a kid just goes along for the ride.     

College coaches are trying to build a program where they can get their recruits through Admission.   Recruiting is selling pure and simple.   I wouldn't say coaches lie, but I would say they withhold information based on how much they want your son or they lead your son to believe something that isn't true.   Lying and misleading are dishonest (in my book) either way.   In very few cases did a RC or HC tell my son exactly what they meant.  It took us months to learn "coach-speak".   We became fluent in coach-speak.   In the latter stages of my son's recruitment we only believed what coaches did, not what they said.

You can always expect a Coach to sell his school on all the positives.  Rarely will you hear about the negatives from a coach unless you ask some very specific questions (after being burned before).  Best resources are current players that you know, former players and HSBBWeb.   it sounds like your son had a very bad experience...it happens.   You can either research some more and remediate what was said with the Coach or move on.    In a couple coaching misteps, my son just wanted to move on and we did.   I've met a few people on HSBBWeb that had the same issues with the same coaches.   It is a small world.

Good luck!

I guess my biggest two questions would be with regard to study hall and student advisors.   What size school are we talking about?   Roster size is easy....look at the past years, though you said you did your homework so I'd assume you saw them.  Nutrition?  Unless it's a P5, you're kind of on your own there.   As far as Coach engagement in academics. once the kid is enrolled, the only time a coach will likely be engaged in academics if if there is a problem.

Some do, I'm sure.  Most don't.  A lot stretch.  Some a little, a few a lot. But I think a lot of the "Coaches lie" talk has more to do with the receiver of the communication.

Coach says "With your ability, competitiveness and lots of hard work, I could see you get some innings, and maybe even a start as a freshman."

Recruit hears "I COULD START AS A FRESHMAN!"

Recruit says to family and friends "COACH OF STATE SAID I AM HIS WEEKEND STARTER AS A FRESHMAN!"

Buckeye 2015 posted:

I guess my biggest two questions would be with regard to study hall and student advisors.   What size school are we talking about?   Roster size is easy....look at the past years, though you said you did your homework so I'd assume you saw them.  Nutrition?  Unless it's a P5, you're kind of on your own there.   As far as Coach engagement in academics. once the kid is enrolled, the only time a coach will likely be engaged in academics if if there is a problem.

One of the D3 schools we visited had a nutritionist assigned just for the baseball team...... Great program.

While I'm not discounting the reality that the OP's son was lied to, a lot of times it really is a misinterpretation by the kid/parents.   And there is also this weird disconnect where most parents do not want to know the truth, they want to stay in their fantasy world version of what they think will happen.

Case in point, a friend of ours' kid just commited to a mid major this past weekend.  We were talking about the program and she said "of course, everybody on the roster plays..." Ummm, no, actually, they do not... 

I'm not sure what she thinks she heard during their visit & meeting with the coaches.  "Everybody plays in the Fall"?  "Everybody gets a chance to play"? "Everybody plays in practice"?  But when I tried to explain the reality of college Baseball to her, she took this sanctimonious tone with me, like I was clueless, so I just let it alone...

Lie is a very harsh definitive description, I personally wouldn't go there. I think there are a few that do, I mean we are humans find me a business where somebody isn't lying about something but in a general way I would say no. 

There were comments from Fenway about coach speak that I thought were extremely accurate. I think the more some coaches want a player the more likely it is that the grey area gets stretched. Fine line maybe but to make an accusation of lying it better very clear where they stepped over the line. 

Recruiters are essentially salesmen, the back office doesn't always back up what the salesmen say when you are buying. Unfortunately you have typically already purchased and it is to late. I got roasted on here years ago for stating that coaches are like used car salesmen...which I still believe.

There certainly good ones out there but it can be very difficult to figure it all out. 

3and2Fastball posted:

 

I'm not sure what she thinks she heard during their visit & meeting with the coaches.  "Everybody plays in the Fall"?  "Everybody gets a chance to play"? "Everybody plays in practice"?  But when I tried to explain the reality of college Baseball to her, she took this sanctimonious tone with me, like I was clueless, so I just let it alone...

YES, this is so accurate. However what she heard may be different then what was said, which also might be very different from how it actually is. Which will ultimately end up in a situation where the most likely result is neither the program or the player is happy with the result. 

Honestly it is a really bad business with some good people in it. 

You have to consider colleges compete for talent too and they lose many recruited athletes. I don't think a coach would fake interest if he saw no chance but he is probably holding some guys in the waiting line by making their chances look better. This isn't easy to plan always as you don't always know who will be available in the end considering things like athletes going elsewhere, the draft and injuries.

For example if the roster is full and 3 guys are ahead of you at your position instead of 1 he might not have lied but maybe just misjudged the amount of attrition.

I'm not sure what the coach promised, but coach engagement in academics is almost always non existent. He's there to coach a baseball team, your son's only responsibility is to stay eligible as far as he's concerned. As far as advisors, tutors, and study halls- if the team doesn't provide (usually only D1/D2) it, he still has an entire university full of resources to use. No study hall, go to library for 6 hours a week. No team tutor, go to office hours. No team academic advisor, school still supplies them. Want to get bigger, go to S&C coach he'll set you up with something. 

Do coaches lie? Sure. And if they win it doesn't matter. So if they bring in 50 kids and cut 15 well it doesn't matter that he lied or wasn't completely honest because the 15 cut players are no longer part of the program. 

If you did your "homework" and this many things are not lining up, the first place that I would Fact check is with my son.  If everything checks out there, then I would talk to others.  My experience has been very positive and all those things academically, nutrition, etc are available, but my son has to take initiative and request and/or schedule it himself most of the time.  

As far as roster size, ect , yes the coaches put the best impression forward, but you have to be able to read between the lines and look at past history (which is easy at most schools).  For example,  Yes, they would consider my son as a two way!  In reality- If his pitching isn't impressing us, then we may see if he can hit or vice versa. I knew that they weren't looking for a two way but it was nice to hear.  Roster size and cuts are almost entirely based on his performance regardless of what the coaches said. And I think that would pretty much apply at most schools.

I am sure that, just like anything, there are those that will take advantage and not be honest, but I have not heard much of it.  There are however some schools that are notorious for over recruiting but they are usually easy to spot.  they have 15  commitments in every graduating class, the numbers just don't work without alot of cuts/attrition.

Only when their lips are moving! 

Just joking folks!

I know there are those who will lie but as has been said they will not last long in the system.  There are what is said and what is heard as has been said and that normally falls on the player/parents to check reality.  There are very few coaches who legitimately allow pitchers to hit.  There are more that allow position players to pitch in situations.  The biggest problem I have found is knowing what questions to ask such as who was the best pitcher who hit last year? 

When it comes to academics and food and such, my son has learned that it is up to him.  They provide the resources but he has to take advantage of them.  He has to ask the questions and set the appointments.  The coaches are not at all involved in his academics because they have people who do that for them.  The only time the coach will talk to my son about academics is when it might be too late or close to it.  Son's school does bod pod's on him and talk to him about his eating habits but they do not enforce a diet.  He very rarely gets to eat in the cafeteria even though I have to pay for the meal plan for 3 meals a day.  Again, up to him to eat right. 

If they lied, that is one thing but I think you might need to talk to son about his choices.  Coaches expect them to be grown men who ask questions, be where they are supposed to be, do what they are supposed to do, and act right.  Not all do it but that is the expectation.

Re: study hall, student advisers, and academic support services. Besides the coach telling out about these they are usually spelled out in the student athlete handbook. Which should be online. 

First you need to tone it down. “Lies” is an accusation. Nothing positive will happen at the school by coming out firing accusations. It’s also not good for your son’s frame of mind. 

Roster size has a coaching history. It’s easy to verify. Playing time discussions in the recruiting process is where the coach’s best case scenario meets recruits and parents hearing what they want to hear (Go44 painted the scenario well).

All  recruiting is not equal. Some recruits have to fail their way out of the team plans with more opportunities than some will feel fair. Others will get minimal opportunity to be afforded another opportunity to prove their value.

Most coaches only concern regarding academics is eligibility. Mandatory study halls are good for the undisciplined. But if a player can’t discipline himself to study he’s not going to last long anyway. If a player needs tutoring help there are people in the athletic department accountable to players surviving academically. A poor team APR comes back to bite the program.

When dealing with issues if a player has to go past the coach because he’s not helping think through how it can come back to be a bite in the rear. My daughter played college softball. Statistically (from an anonymous NCAA poll) 40% of female D1 athletes prefer woman. My daughter got hit on a lot by teammates the beginning of freshman year. She went to the coach who was one of the 40%. The coach shrugged her off. My daughter had a sexual harassment situation on her hands with a coach unwilling to help. She had three options; 1) go over the coach’s head which would likely net out with her being off the team before it’s solved, 2) shut up and transfer or 3) shut up and deal with it. She chose #3. She also convinced a guy friend to show up at the end of practice a couple of times a week and act like a boyfriend. 

To net it out, 1) make sure you’re getting the truth from your son. He wouldn’t be the first kid to go off to college and tell his parents what they want to hear to protect himself from the truth. Some kids don’t handle the transition from parental oversight to quickly being responsible for themselves well. 2) Whatever the strategy is to clear up the issues think through how the coach perceives the situation. 3) Don’t sacrifice education. 

I think there is a communication problem of epidemic proportion regarding the recruiting process.  The recruitment of a player used to go thru the HS or JuCo HC of that player - and the HC would protect his players from being taken advantage of. That doesn’t happen much anymore. With the “advancement” of technology, and every player having a cell phone and social media accounts, the players are now directly accessible to any coach that wants to contact them. Combine that with all the outside influences (scouting services, over-zealous parents, etc.) and you have a system that overwhelmingly favors the recruiters. Now, add in the fact that a market imperfection exits with the supply of good players exceeding the demand (# of roster spots available) and you have a process that is brutal for the player being recruited. Coaches recruit for a living and do it every day. They are way better at the recruiting game than an 18-20 year old kid that does it once or twice in his life. In most cases nobody is holding the RCs accountable, so they are free to communicate only when it’s to their benefit, string kids along w/o giving honest feedback, etc.  All of this combines to make many people feel like they have not been treated fairly or honestly. It is a harsh reminder that college baseball is a business and some conduct it in a cold, hard manner while smiling and shaking your hand along the way. About all you can do is adopt a business mindset yourself and proceed accordingly. It’s a fine line to walk. The first critical thing is to not get married to any one school - especially early on. You also have to be realistic about which pond to fish in and this is where I see players make a mistake.   The next key (if you can do it) is to create competition for a players services by obtaining mutiple offers that you are willing to take. And then negotiating in a gentlemanly manner. I know that everyone is not that fortunate. No matter the circumstances you have to be very determined in doing your homework. 

Can you detail what you did to do your "homework"?  That would help those of us who have been through it to understand how there could be that big of a disconnect between what you and your son thought and what actually happened.  I am presuming your son is a freshman now having regrets from what he thought it would be and what it is, but please advise otherwise.

Did you look online at the roster history over the past 3-5 years?  It would be highly unusual for a school or coach to vary much on how many players he keeps each year, and roster churn or "cuts" should be easy to track as well.

Did your son visit the campus during the Fall practice or Spring season to eye his competition at his position and observe team chemistry and the coaching methods?  While he would not know of his incoming competition (unless he was able to track PG commitments), just watching the current team speaks volumes if a kid is objective about his prospects to play.

Did you and your son meet with the academic office and possibly attend a class in his planned major to anticipate what his schoolwork would be like and the department's willingness to work with athletes on scheduling conflicts?

When he visited the coach/recruiting coordinator, did he meet the training department and discuss workouts, nutrition and such?  Ask what the expectations are for weight lifting and conditioning?

From my 2017's experience, these activities were all essential to him sorting out options, and he was able to identify some coach BS speak before it was too late.  It became pretty obvious who was sincere and truthful and who was just trying to pad his roster and the school's enrollment.