Need more details
Valid reasons (in my opinion) to not play High School Baseball:
Injury concerns. Arm getting abused by coach. Coach not willing to change the arm abuse.
Other than that, unless the Coach is a complete sociopathic criminal, or engaging in overly excessive behavior such as punching players in the face, telling pitchers to intentionally throw at opponent's heads, sexually harassing the player's Mom etc, I'd say go play...
Couple things I'd like to add-
1st, as far as the step back goes- my son experienced this last season. He'd been training his ass off over the winter and when the season started was pretty much in peak form ready to roll. When HS season kicked in neither the workouts nor the practices were as rigorous as what he'd had in the off-season and as a result near the end of the season his velo was down and his pitches were suffering. He went the entire first month of the season without giving up an earned run and only allowing 9 hits. He gave up 10 hits his last game of the season! He learned his lesson with about 2 weeks left in the season and started working extra on his own (weighted balls, long toss, etc) , so by summer ball he was getting himself ramped back up and had a great summer. This year he's determined to keep working like it's the off-season and avoid the in-season dropoff.
2nd, the coach for the school he has committed to has already sent an email asking for weekly HS updates. Clearly they're expecting him to play HS ball of for no other reason than to make sure the kid they've verbally committed to giving money to doesn't start to suck.
3rd, Our local paper has a great prep sports department, and it's pretty cool to see his name in the paper once a week or so. I'm not sure that actually helps with anything, but it can't hurt, and neither can ending up all-conference, all-area and hopefully all-state. Opportunities he can only get if he plays in HS.
3and2Fastball posted:Need more details
Valid reasons (in my opinion) to not play High School Baseball:
Injury concerns. Arm getting abused by coach. Coach not willing to change the arm abuse.
Other than that, unless the Coach is a complete sociopathic criminal, or engaging in overly excessive behavior such as punching players in the face, telling pitchers to intentionally throw at opponent's heads, sexually harassing the player's Mom etc, I'd say go play...
Only slight overuse issues...
I would say that learning to deal with that pressure is a good thing... embrace it.
All good input. YES, play ball! There is much more to learn from being a leader and simply competing for his team. It's easy to play for a good team and adversity will only make him better!
My '18 has played for a very weak HS program. Every player plays the game for the enjoyment of the game, most seldom seek playing after HS as their goals are different. He helps his peers with pointers when asked and supports his teammates leading by example.
NEVER discount what the HS coach or program can do for your player. My sons HS coach received a phone call from his future college coach.............In 22 years, not one college coach had ever contacted him for a specific player. This phone call had one question, "What am I getting"? He knew the HS coach had no skin in the game and wasn't being paid by the player/parents. The college coach went on to state that travel coaches will lie to get a player to the next level as they benefit from it.
Knowing the coach was a teacher first and baseball coach second made him a valued opinion in the recruitment of my son. I'm glad as a parent that we instilled good values that show good character both on and off the field.
Robrod posted:3and2Fastball posted:Need more details
Valid reasons (in my opinion) to not play High School Baseball:
Injury concerns. Arm getting abused by coach. Coach not willing to change the arm abuse.
Other than that, unless the Coach is a complete sociopathic criminal, or engaging in overly excessive behavior such as punching players in the face, telling pitchers to intentionally throw at opponent's heads, sexually harassing the player's Mom etc, I'd say go play...
Only slight overuse issues... He led the school in innings, pitches, strikouts last year and was pitcher of the year. I'm not OVERLY concerned. he's not a pitcher as much as he is a hitter and he's pretty good at telling the coach when he's sore... they listen.
I'd classify the coach as a grumpy old guy.... so what. He can deal with that.I think it's more about the fact that it's not fun to lose and the way it's happening. He puts a lot on himself. He feels that he needs to be perfect and if he's perfect they have a chance to complete. Being good, the coach relies heavily on him to be perfect.... I do think the weight of the team is on his shoulders. I think this tension makes playing not fun.
I would say that learning to deal with that pressure is a good thing... embrace it.
Agree?
Yes, agree and would add... perspective. Is there really a lot of pressure for a bad HS team? They are not expected to win so there is only tremendous upside. Maybe he can shift some of his efforts from being perfect to helping others be better players so he doesn't have to be perfect. That can go a long way for him, his teammates and his HS program - IF it is done with good attitude and perspective.
This type of pressure is really nothing compared to what he is likely to face going forward. So, yes, embrace it.
Robrod posted:I think it's more about the fact that it's not fun to lose and the way it's happening. He puts a lot on himself. He feels that he needs to be perfect and if he's perfect they have a chance to complete. Being good, the coach relies heavily on him to be perfect.... I do think the weight of the team is on his shoulders. I think this tension makes playing not fun.
IMO, not a valid reason to not play HS ball. What will he do if the college team he commits to ends up being "not good".
As others have said the college coaches will be wanting updates from his HS coach from time to time. If he tells a college coach he stopped playing because the team "was not good" it is going to work against him. In addition there is the possibility the college guys find out he was playing HS for a while and stopped. They may decide that want to put a call into the HS coach to verify your sons story.
At the end of the day, your sons situation is not unique. Many high level players play for HS teams that are not good. They find a way to suck it up and deal with it. Your son needs to find it within himself to get into a mindset that supports his HS team.
My son played for what is probably the only HS in America to have 3 first round draft picks and current Major Leaguer's as well as a good number of other good college level players transfer out. It wasn't the coach was a jerk or anything like that, he just played players by their grade, not their talent and you didn't play varsity till 11th grade no matter how good you are. Imagine a first overall pick playing JV in the 10th grade. In 5 years on the team my son played in only 12 games at the varsity level in his true position, catcher. He was forced to pitch, play first and DH because all the other good pitchers left, there wasn't much talent behind him either. Several local colleges came to look at him and told him he could walk on in the fall but they didn't think there was anyway he'd make the team and encouraged him to go elsewhere. His coach even told him one day some college kept calling and leaving messages on his phone asking about him, did he know what they wanted? He never even called them back. He did play for a top showcase team in the summer but nothing ever came of that either. He ended up with a D3 coach he was taking hitting lessons with making a call to a D1 JUCO. After one year there and being named first team all Region catcher he had a number of D1 offers including an SEC team, an ACC team and several mid majors, even one of the teams that told him not to bother walking on offered him a full scholarship (it was a very low rated academic school and he would have gotten academic money as well as baseball money). The coach said he didn't know he could catch and hit like that. He accepted a mid major D1 in the state and did well, even lighting up the other school that rejected him in 3 out of 4 games they played against them. He went on to become a first team all conference catcher and was drafted. He has just finished 4 years of indie pro ball.
If I had to do it again I'm not sure I wouldn't do the same thing, it worked out well for him this time, and moving just so your son can play ball is expensive, but I definitly think he should play HS ball, just don't get hurt.
Robrod posted:3and2Fastball posted:Need more details
Valid reasons (in my opinion) to not play High School Baseball:
Injury concerns. Arm getting abused by coach. Coach not willing to change the arm abuse.
Other than that, unless the Coach is a complete sociopathic criminal, or engaging in overly excessive behavior such as punching players in the face, telling pitchers to intentionally throw at opponent's heads, sexually harassing the player's Mom etc, I'd say go play...
Only slight overuse issues... He led the school in innings, pitches, strikouts last year and was pitcher of the year. I'm not OVERLY concerned. he's not a pitcher as much as he is a hitter and he's pretty good at telling the coach when he's sore... they listen.
I'd classify the coach as a grumpy old guy.... so what. He can deal with that.I think it's more about the fact that it's not fun to lose and the way it's happening. He puts a lot on himself. He feels that he needs to be perfect and if he's perfect they have a chance to complete. Being good, the coach relies heavily on him to be perfect.... I do think the weight of the team is on his shoulders. I think this tension makes playing not fun.
I would say that learning to deal with that pressure is a good thing... embrace it.
Agree?
If he can’t handle the weight of the high school team on his shoulders he’s a long way from having the required mental and emotional discipline to compete for playing time at the college level. He should play high school ball just to work through handling the pressure.
Chances are there will be frustration and pressure at the college level. Everyone can play. Will he be mentally ready when he gets his shot? What happens if he’s hitting .240 and knows if he doesn’t perform better he could end up on the bench? What if he sits then gets one shot to prove himself? Will he be mentally ready?
From having played and watching both kids play it’s the players who have mental disciple who survive college ball. After the first five studs (relative to the level of play) chances are the next thirty are competing for playing time at about thirteen positions.
It’s an honor to earn the right to play college ball. It’s a challenge to prove you deserve to stay and play.
Robrod posted:...................................................Only slight overuse issues... He led the school in innings, pitches, strikouts last year and was pitcher of the year. I'm not OVERLY concerned. he's not a pitcher as much as he is a hitter and he's pretty good at telling the coach when he's sore... they listen.
I'd classify the coach as a grumpy old guy.... so what. He can deal with that.
I think it's more about the fact that it's not fun to lose and the way it's happening. He puts a lot on himself. He feels that he needs to be perfect and if he's perfect they have a chance to complete. Being good, the coach relies heavily on him to be perfect.... I do think the weight of the team is on his shoulders. I think this tension makes playing not fun.
I would say that learning to deal with that pressure is a good thing... embrace it.
Agree?
Robrod,
Again, I know what you're thinking and going through. Not easy to be on losing or average high school team and good enough to be on a 16U Perfect Game WWBA Championship team.....that was my son a few years ago. He hated losing but it gave him new opportunites to stand out, separate himself from others, and be a leader on his high school team. My son is not much of a talker. He led by example, and it got the respect of his teammates, opponents and other coaches in his District. A couple of those coaches commented to me after games that my son had a "knack and a gift" both as a pitcher and a hitter.
High school coaches talk and it didn't take long for college coaches to show up and some area scouts to take notice. Playing high school baseball is just another opportunity for your son to showcase his skills, leadership, and demonstrate he is ready for the next level. I think if he treats it that way, he will relax and not feel as though he has to carry the team. Trust me, I've been there.
Good luck!
Smitty28 posted:Robrod posted:I have a son (2020 year) who has had private hitting/fielding/pitching coaches for many years. Some free, some not... but all are top notch. These are men who have played Major League Baseball, each for several years and one has even coached at that level. They teach baseball 'the right way' and are often hitting/pitching/fielding coordinators still employed by MLB organizations for Rookie, winter and spring pro ball.
He plays Travel ball for a highly regarded Pro Scout team and is on some scout watch lists (whatever that means). So he's talented but I have no delusions that he'll be an early round draft candidate but he does have interest from D1s...... Problem is, his high school program is simply not very good. He recently stated that this is his last year playing HS Baseball and that he'd rather spend the time working with coaches, getting stronger and refining skills for his 'real' season (travel ball - perfectgame, prospectwire, USA Baseball etc.). I won't get to details but lets just say he's not challenged by the program and it's like taking two steps forward (summer) and one step back (HS).
I'm concerned by his statement. I don't want him to be labelled a quiter (although he won't be quiting mid-season, he'll stick it out) or arrogant $#@! who's thinks his stuff don't stink. I don't want scouts and recruiters looking down on him for this decision... I come from an era where you stick it out, go the traditional route, etc. Even though I really don't know the traditional route.... So I'm having an open mind.
What are the pitfalls of taking this route?
What are the alternatives? It seems to me that HS baseball is necessary.
Please advise.
To me, the bolded statement is the real issue. He's got to figure out how not to take a step back in the spring due to the weak HS program. The best way, IMO, is for him to own the process of getting better and not place blame on the HS program. Be the hardest worker during HS practice and take the opportunity to be a leader. Continue to work out with his hitting coach and fielding coach in the evenings (if need be, put your foot down with the HS coach on this point, rather than quit). Hit the weight room during lunch a couple times a week - continue to get bigger and stronger. Do yoga on the weekend. Work on speed. The one area that he'll need to adjust in the summer is hitting the better pitching - it may take a few games to get his timing down but he'll be fine.
A lot of high school programs are "easier" than travel programs. HS teachers/coaches can't be hard a###s anymore.
And unless they play even worse competition, they will have their opportunities. My kid has faced several D1 pitchers at the high school level. It keeps you sharp.
Depending upon your location and family circumstances, you may want to consider the private school option.
Scouts do not come to watch teams. They come to watch players. The obvious metrics are easy. Arm strength, athletic ability, ability to hit, power, fielding. You learn a great deal about the make up of a player when he his getting his teeth kicked in and he plays like he's not. You learn a great deal about a player when he's down by 10 but you can't tell by the way he competes. Scouts understand that HS teams can be bad. They understand you can't control the quality of your team mates. How do you handle it?
For me these situations are just opportunities. An opportunity to make those around you better. An opportunity to be a leader. An opportunity to grow. Scouts could quite honestly care less about the quality of the HS team you play on. They are there to see if you have the tools and you can use them. And of course what is your make up?
Will it matter if you simply leave and find a better team to play on? Maybe not. Will it raise a red flag or two? Maybe not. Will it be an opportunity lost? I always go back to a kid that was pulled because his team was way up and he was about to get a chance to launch his 3rd HR of the night. There were numerous scouts in the house. What did he do? He shagged foul balls and cheered his team on the last 2 innings. I think that made a bigger impression on the scouts there that night than Josh Hamilton's play did. At least that's what many said.
Last night 2018 was playing in a scrimmage, 6-7 teams there scouting. The umpire lived three houses down from me, you might think 2018 was to get at least a fair zone..... nope, Ump was concerned about favoritism and gave him a clowns mouth against a team that won the state championship last year. BTW it was 42 degrees... first batter K's , second batter K's third batter hits a normal ball at SS, soph boots it to third base. fourth batter hits a pop up in foul territory on the right side... dropped... Runner steals and catcher has him by 10 feet.... short lets the ball go into center field. Fourth batter again K's .... White Sox guy says and I quote "well he didn't cuss anyone"
I think I forgot how bad HS ball is.
Softball but same difference.
There's a girl here who's forgone HS softball and just did the TB thing. And we have an exceptional program, going unbeaten in the regular season most of the 7 years we've lived here with a couple of state titles . Don't know if it's a coach/player thing or what but she committed to a top level DI program recently. Also checked out her Twitter and noticed a few of the HS players commenting and liking post so doesn't seem to be any animosity.
The top soccer academies are telling their players (D1 and pro prospects) you will not play for the high school. Maybe there are less soccer coaches who played the game at a high level and know the game than baseball.
So for all these reasons, no reason to get your nose out of joint if your D1 prospect Sophomore kid is playing with his buddies on JV and they move up the son of the asst coach, his buddy, and the son of the booster club president? Or am I wrong about that?
RJM posted:The top soccer academies are telling their players (D1 and pro prospects) you will not play for the high school. Maybe there are less soccer coaches who played the game at a high level and know the game than baseball.
I have one soccer player. In our area many of the soccer club coaches didn't go to an american HS with sports. They may have no idea what HS camaraderie is all about and selfishly are just trying to keep their lucrative soccer coach gigs, by controlling the product. Sadly we've reached a tipping point in baseball where HS programs are just for fun; but since you can't do both at the same time, there's a conflict. I think state athletic associations should eliminate that restriction but require that pitching logs are kept, but I can see arguments on both sides including prevention of injuries etc.
2020.2023dad posted:... Sadly we've reached a tipping point in baseball where HS programs are just for fun; but since you can't do both at the same time, there's a conflict. ....
I certainly do not see that we've reached that tipping point with baseball. The majority of top HS age players still play baseball for their HS. Yes, of course, a legitimate travel team in a given area will typically be slightly more competitive than the average HS in the area. This only stands to reason. The travel team is likely to be made up of a handful of the best from each of the area HS's.
Most HS age players that want to play "just for fun"? My observation is that a good many of them are getting cut by their HS programs or getting passed by with PT because so many of their peers are playing both HS and travel ball and working extra on their game outside of the normal HS team practice time and working the hardest with every rep at those practices.
Tying this in to my other post... At the moment, I do not have clear separation between my 6th best guy and my 13th best guy. Each game, penning the lineup requires some deep digging. We had a big league game yesterday. We were playing a team with a LH ace and a lineup that can hit any pitching. I have a good LH hitter who doesn't move well. Looking at his recent offensive production and his history against this ace, I was set on replacing him in the lineup. The few days leading up to the game, he pushed even beyond his normal strong efforts. He is the only kid that finished outfield drills in a full sweat. He refused to back down on any hitting rep, whether it be cage swings, front toss, on-field, whatever... clearly determined to create separation where there was none or where it was tipping against him. I reluctantly took out my eraser and penciled him in. He carried that determination into the game... among other things... game winning RBI.
2020.2023dad posted:So for all these reasons, no reason to get your nose out of joint if your D1 prospect Sophomore kid is playing with his buddies on JV and they move up the son of the asst coach, his buddy, and the son of the booster club president? Or am I wrong about that?
Well, there would have to be quite a few assumptions made that may or may not be true in order for us to answer your question. One thing I can offer up with near certainty... If we are talking about actually getting varsity PLAYING TIME, if that D1 prospect sophomore has already developed to the point where there is CLEAR SEPARATION between him and others getting PLAYING TIME at varsity, the vast majority of HS coaches would choose that player to get that playing time and give their team the best chance to win, no matter who's son the other players might be.
There are a heck of a lot of other factors as to who goes on what roster. It's probably safe to say that we typically have a few JV players who are better than the last few to make the varsity roster. But things like making sure the better players get game innings, ability and willingness to fill a role, position fit, likely eligibility, chemistry and a whole lot of other things come into play.
There is always going to be bias in many ways for a variety of reasons. The message to send the player is always to create clear separation. If you haven't, work harder. Just as there will always be hurdles. If you haven't cleared them, jump higher. Find a way. Focusing on those biases and hurdles as things that are keeping you down is self-defeating excuse making. Focus on them as challenges to be conquered and rise up. I have a small handful of players who will not let me take them out of the lineup. Not because they say so, because they play so.
2020.2023dad posted:So for all these reasons, no reason to get your nose out of joint if your D1 prospect Sophomore kid is playing with his buddies on JV and they move up the son of the asst coach, his buddy, and the son of the booster club president? Or am I wrong about that?
With the diversity of posters here you will hear every possible thing that could happen. In the big picture it doesn’t happen that often. Some of the time the accusation it’s an excuse why a parent’s kid isn’t on varsity. The “favored” is actually a player.
Our rival high school coach was accused of favoritism with both kids. They both became D1 players. The one thing parents sometimes overlook is the coach knows what his kids can do. Another potential JV call up may be a mystery gamble to him.
The best advice is practice hard and be too good to not be on varsity. It’s usually the parents of marginal kids you hear whining about favortism.
