Do Scouts value HS baseball enough for a player to toil In a bad program

Things I over heard at last nights a high school game....  I do not know what some of these things mean.....

" did you see that field umpires head?"   " that kids a tool"  "Well I guess we will have to practice that so more. " he launch that pup"  "really dude you a hacker for sure"?  "shut up sophomore "   after the game, during the congratulatory hand shake..."  good game, good game, good game, hey good hit,  hey do ya'll play fortnite?" 

I have been missing out on all the free comedy by actually watching the field when I should have been watching the dugout... the dugout is comedy gold.

bacdorslider posted:

Things I over heard at last nights a high school game....  I do not know what some of these things mean.....

" did you see that field umpires head?"   " that kids a tool"  "Well I guess we will have to practice that so more. " he launch that pup"  "really dude you a hacker for sure"?  "shut up sophomore "   after the game, during the congratulatory hand shake..."  good game, good game, good game, hey good hit,  hey do ya'll play fortnite?" 

I have been missing out on all the free comedy by actually watching the field when I should have been watching the dugout... the dugout is comedy gold.

You should hear a college team dugout........

I've come around on this topic in a couple of months.

Increasingly in Wisconsin we are seeing high school players not playing for their high school and instead playing in a Travel Spring League.  2 months ago I would have said it was a mistake.  Now, I understand it.

The reality is, here in Wisconsin, because of weather related issues, the "season" gets condensed into 3-4 weeks.  Most of April gets rained out or snowed out, or you are playing in 40 degree weather.

Then in May, because of all the makeup games, you are playing 5-7 games a week.  Injury concerns are very real, especially concerns about arms and kids going from pitching 90+ pitches to then playing a defensive position that same day in a double header, or the next day.  This concern is increased because of several weeks of mostly practicing in a high school gym without proper arm care.  March games are nonexistent.  Outdoor practices in March or April are exceedingly rare.  Because of all the games in May, outdoor practices in that month are rare too.

Meanwhile, in the Travel Spring League.  There are indoor facilities that can accommodate games inside.  Players from March through April can get in 26 games on weekends while having the weekdays open to train.

It is a tough decision, but a decision I respect.  It doesn't even factor in whether a program or the competition is quality or not, whether a high school coach is inept or not.  Players from this state are trying to compete with kids from Baseball hotbeds in order to get a chance to play at the next level, and the injury risks are high trying to play so much in 40 degree weather on wet fields and condensing so many games into a short amount of time.  

Times are changing quickly in youth Baseball, and in this state this is one of those things that is changing.  A player who is very serious about Baseball has to make tough choices in Wisconsin.  

3and2Fastball,

You know your area and market best.   Get a lot of facts (which is sounds like you've done) and talk to people who've done it.   Then make a decision on what to do.   As I've said on HSBBWeb before there are so many paths to get to the same goal.  Your son has to find his path.  My son made his own path despite many obstacles and tough decisions.  Stick with what make sense and what your son wants to do....that is the key.   BTW...the college coaches that recruited my son appreciated him for it. 

Good luck! 

3and2Fastball posted:

I've come around on this topic in a couple of months.

Increasingly in Wisconsin we are seeing high school players not playing for their high school and instead playing in a Travel Spring League.  2 months ago I would have said it was a mistake.  Now, I understand it.

The reality is, here in Wisconsin, because of weather related issues, the "season" gets condensed into 3-4 weeks.  Most of April gets rained out or snowed out, or you are playing in 40 degree weather.

Then in May, because of all the makeup games, you are playing 5-7 games a week.  Injury concerns are very real, especially concerns about arms and kids going from pitching 90+ pitches to then playing a defensive position that same day in a double header, or the next day.  This concern is increased because of several weeks of mostly practicing in a high school gym without proper arm care.  March games are nonexistent.  Outdoor practices in March or April are exceedingly rare.  Because of all the games in May, outdoor practices in that month are rare too.

Meanwhile, in the Travel Spring League.  There are indoor facilities that can accommodate games inside.  Players from March through April can get in 26 games on weekends while having the weekdays open to train.

It is a tough decision, but a decision I respect.  It doesn't even factor in whether a program or the competition is quality or not, whether a high school coach is inept or not.  Players from this state are trying to compete with kids from Baseball hotbeds in order to get a chance to play at the next level, and the injury risks are high trying to play so much in 40 degree weather on wet fields and condensing so many games into a short amount of time.  

Times are changing quickly in youth Baseball, and in this state this is one of those things that is changing.  A player who is very serious about Baseball has to make tough choices in Wisconsin.  

Same weather situation here in Chicagoland. It is impossible some weeks to get games in and if they do it is miserable weather to try to play good baseball. We have thought a lot about having my 2020 play spring travel in Wisconsin. The game schedule where you are guaranteed to play in good conditions and the fact that the schedule allows for homework and getting to get strength and speed workouts during the week are big draws for me. The thing that has kept us from making the jump from HS to spring travel is my son is a V starter and plays every inning of every V game while playing with friends. This plus the 5 min drive to the school versus the 1 hour drive each way to get to facilities where we can play in Wisconsin have kept us home. It seems like more and more kids from around here are migrating toward spring travel and choosing not to play HS though. We still have it as a very viable option in our minds for the next two years. I am interested to hear from players who did make the jump and how they liked it?

JA'CRISPY -  yes, the Hitters Spring League in the Milwaukee area.  I've talked to a few players and their parents who have played in that league (and are in it this spring) and they love it.  Good competition, well organized, the ability  to get games in inside.  In mid April they had already gotten in 20+ games where the high schools had only gotten in 3.  With an entire month's worth of games to play.  The games draw college scouts as well as MLB scouts.

Factor in the time limitations of a teenager.  Instead of attending a 2 hour practice in the high school gym Monday-Friday a kid has that time to lift & get in homework and if you are a member of a Indoor Travel Ball facility like we are, time to get in individual BP, glove work, sprint work, etc...

3and2Fastball posted:

 

Factor in the time limitations of a teenager.  Instead of attending a 2 hour practice in the high school gym Monday-Friday a kid has that time to lift & get in homework and if you are a member of a Indoor Travel Ball facility like we are, time to get in individual BP, glove work, sprint work, etc...

If a HS kid has "time limitations" that make it tough to practice for 2 hours M-F he'd better figure it out if he has any thoughts of playing in college lol.   3 hour practices (minimum), lifting, study table for freshman........weekday game that means leaving school at 10am and getting back at 9pm.  Weekend trip that leaves Thursday afternoon or Friday morning and getting back Monday morning at 4am with class at 8.   And yes, there is still class and a lot more homework than HS to fit in.    

3and2Fastball posted:

The games draw college scouts as well as MLB scouts.

 

3 and 2 I agree with everything you said plus Hitters definitely draw the above.  That's where we would play if we decide to go that way with spring travel. I am glad that those players are enjoying moving to spring travel instead of HS. This carries some weight in my mind and sounds like yours as well. Three games so far this year in HS would be brutal and would be hard to say that it is worth it. This year I was leaning more toward going to travel while my son wanted to keep playing with the HS and his buddies. As long as he is happy we will probably keep going in HS but I am glad we now have viable choices to make in this area if he ever changes his mind.

Buckeye -  more that in addition to the 2 hour practices at the high school, a kid who is preparing for D1 Baseball, high level travel ball and showcases also needs another 2+ hours (plus transportation time) to get in weightlifting, individual batting practice and glove work.  Factor in the desire/need to get a 3.6+ GPA.  Can't skimp on sleep and proper nutrition as that could/would stunt growth.   

Strongly agree that any kid lacking the motivation to put in extra work has an easy decision.  Just do the bare minimum, go to team practice, play video games and forget about college Baseball.

Buckeye 2015 posted:
3and2Fastball posted:

 

Factor in the time limitations of a teenager.  Instead of attending a 2 hour practice in the high school gym Monday-Friday a kid has that time to lift & get in homework and if you are a member of a Indoor Travel Ball facility like we are, time to get in individual BP, glove work, sprint work, etc...

If a HS kid has "time limitations" that make it tough to practice for 2 hours M-F he'd better figure it out if he has any thoughts of playing in college lol.   3 hour practices (minimum), lifting, study table for freshman........weekday game that means leaving school at 10am and getting back at 9pm.  Weekend trip that leaves Thursday afternoon or Friday morning and getting back Monday morning at 4am with class at 8.   And yes, there is still class and a lot more homework than HS to fit in.    

I definitely agree with that. My 2017 son had early early morning college practice this spring. He had to wake up at 4am to make it to the field by 430 am to start. Once finished had to get to 8 am classes. I have never heard or seen him more tired in his life. I have given my younger son the "this is nothing compared to college"  speech many times but as a parent that still has to drive a 15yo around it is nice to have some free time in my life as well.

3and2Fastball posted:

I've come around on this topic in a couple of months.

Increasingly in Wisconsin we are seeing high school players not playing for their high school and instead playing in a Travel Spring League.  2 months ago I would have said it was a mistake.  Now, I understand it.

The reality is, here in Wisconsin, because of weather related issues, the "season" gets condensed into 3-4 weeks.  Most of April gets rained out or snowed out, or you are playing in 40 degree weather.

Then in May, because of all the makeup games, you are playing 5-7 games a week.  Injury concerns are very real, especially concerns about arms and kids going from pitching 90+ pitches to then playing a defensive position that same day in a double header, or the next day.  This concern is increased because of several weeks of mostly practicing in a high school gym without proper arm care.  March games are nonexistent.  Outdoor practices in March or April are exceedingly rare.  Because of all the games in May, outdoor practices in that month are rare too.

Meanwhile, in the Travel Spring League.  There are indoor facilities that can accommodate games inside.  Players from March through April can get in 26 games on weekends while having the weekdays open to train.

It is a tough decision, but a decision I respect.  It doesn't even factor in whether a program or the competition is quality or not, whether a high school coach is inept or not.  Players from this state are trying to compete with kids from Baseball hotbeds in order to get a chance to play at the next level, and the injury risks are high trying to play so much in 40 degree weather on wet fields and condensing so many games into a short amount of time.  

Times are changing quickly in youth Baseball, and in this state this is one of those things that is changing.  A player who is very serious about Baseball has to make tough choices in Wisconsin.  

Two words: Summer baseball. It's sunny and 80 for our pre-season scrimmages. Rain will be a factor in our season that starts Memorial Day weekend, but snow won't (probably).

3and2Fastball posted:

I've come around on this topic in a couple of months.

Increasingly in Wisconsin we are seeing high school players not playing for their high school and instead playing in a Travel Spring League.  2 months ago I would have said it was a mistake.  Now, I understand it.

The reality is, here in Wisconsin, because of weather related issues, the "season" gets condensed into 3-4 weeks.  Most of April gets rained out or snowed out, or you are playing in 40 degree weather.

Then in May, because of all the makeup games, you are playing 5-7 games a week.  Injury concerns are very real, especially concerns about arms and kids going from pitching 90+ pitches to then playing a defensive position that same day in a double header, or the next day.  This concern is increased because of several weeks of mostly practicing in a high school gym without proper arm care.  March games are nonexistent.  Outdoor practices in March or April are exceedingly rare.  Because of all the games in May, outdoor practices in that month are rare too.

Meanwhile, in the Travel Spring League.  There are indoor facilities that can accommodate games inside.  Players from March through April can get in 26 games on weekends while having the weekdays open to train.

It is a tough decision, but a decision I respect.  It doesn't even factor in whether a program or the competition is quality or not, whether a high school coach is inept or not.  Players from this state are trying to compete with kids from Baseball hotbeds in order to get a chance to play at the next level, and the injury risks are high trying to play so much in 40 degree weather on wet fields and condensing so many games into a short amount of time.  

Times are changing quickly in youth Baseball, and in this state this is one of those things that is changing.  A player who is very serious about Baseball has to make tough choices in Wisconsin.  

3and2, I get what you are saying and there are many credible points.  Here's one irony to consider, though...  Part of what you are proposing is for a kid to avoid the season that is shortened by weather, avoid injury potential, due in part to condensing games to fit in the season, etc., so that a player can focus on getting better and stronger for the opportunity to play in college.  Well, guess what...  colleges all over the Plains, Midwest, Northeast, etc., deal with exactly the same thing.  Tons of rainouts and snow cancellations and then condensed schedule that was already too heavy in spots, so they are cramming games in less-than-desirable conditions, taxing arms, etc.  I know, there are more arms.  But in the heat of the battle, the few best arms are going to be called on over and over again.  Son is in WV coaching a college team.  Even there... every time this season he sent a snap of game action their was either snow on the surrounding ground or he was trotting over to his 1st base coach spot in his winter parka and gloves.  This was all the way into April this year.

I do think this whole thread is a great resource where most of the pro's and con's are discussed in some detail.

Also, I would love to see a pic of the indoor facility that allows for games to be played!

Iowamom23 posted:

Two words: Summer baseball. It's sunny and 80 for our pre-season scrimmages. Rain will be a factor in our season that starts Memorial Day weekend, but snow won't (probably).

I apologize in advance if you have answered this in a previous thread, but how does Iowa's HS summer season affect player's availability for travel ball during the summer? 

Couldn't find a picture of Hitters' facility, but here is Stiks, in the Milwaukee suburbs.  Similar facility.  40 foot ceilings, full size infield.  Not perfect for indoor games, especially for outfielders (!), but better than not being able to play, or playing outdoors in 39 degree weather.

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I would love to see a pic of the indoor facility that allows for games to be played!

Diamond Nation in Flemington NJ puts up a dome in the winter. It’s over a full size field. I’m guessing if someone really crushed a moonshot homer it might hit the sloped roof before it goes over the fence. I have no idea if how the dome is inflated affects how far the ball sails.

There is talk about a few people building domed stadiums in southern Wisconsin.  So far it is just talk, but it would definitely change the game for high school sports in being able to accommodate not just a full size Baseball field but could also host soccer games, LaCrosse etc... It would be a great way for the high school programs to "steal back" athletes from Spring Travel.

3and2Fastball posted:

Couldn't find a picture of Hitters' facility, but here is Stiks, in the Milwaukee suburbs.  Similar facility.  40 foot ceilings, full size infield.  Not perfect for indoor games, especially for outfielders (!), but better than not being able to play, or playing outdoors in 39 degree weather.

image

Oh, OK.  This is really cool but I thought when you said "can accommodate games inside", I thought you meant actual games.

Ok, a few things.  As our season starts to wind down, it's be a real crap show.  Even so, I am still leaning play for HS.  But can perfectly understand why one would choose not to.  

Northern springs are always an issue.  But this spring was an aberration.  In the past we have had a few good days, followed by a few bad days, followed by a few good.  So the disruptions were minimal.  This season, it was weeks at a time.  So, like most it's at all games all the time as there are no open dates left.  Makes it difficult to practice and for guys to show what they got.  In our case, we are regressing.  I wouldn't use weather to make my decision.  

The facility thing is probably doable in a cheaper state like Wisconsin.  Here in IL, forget it.  A few have tried.  Ended up bankrupt.  Places are packed the winter.  Summer it's a ghost town, but the bills still need to be paid.  What they could potentially do however, is a HS field complex like Lakepoint.  4 HS sized field with turf and lights.  It would all schools to play even if it rained during the day.  We get knocked out by the 3:00 storm that rolls thru and it's perfect weather by 4:00.  But the field is too wet to play.  

cabbagedad posted:
3and2Fastball posted:

Couldn't find a picture of Hitters' facility, but here is Stiks, in the Milwaukee suburbs.  Similar facility.  40 foot ceilings, full size infield.  Not perfect for indoor games, especially for outfielders (!), but better than not being able to play, or playing outdoors in 39 degree weather.

image

Oh, OK.  This is really cool but I thought when you said "can accommodate games inside", I thought you meant actual games.

My son played for this organization and has played many games on this turf.  No its not 'real' baseball but 3and2 is correct it beats just getting rained/snowed out all the time.  Outfielders can not practice their craft.  And infielders don't get work on pop ups.  Other than that is it real baseball.  Anything on the ground is played like normal.  The running game is normal.  And bottom line it is about pitcher vs. hitter and there is nothing not real about that.  By March/April it gets old after playing indoors since December roughly.  And you are itching to get out and do it for real but you are a better player for all those 'games' you played indoors December thru April.

Golfman25 posted:

Ok, a few things.  As our season starts to wind down, it's be a real crap show.  Even so, I am still leaning play for HS.  But can perfectly understand why one would choose not to.  

Northern springs are always an issue.  But this spring was an aberration.  In the past we have had a few good days, followed by a few bad days, followed by a few good.  So the disruptions were minimal.  This season, it was weeks at a time.  So, like most it's at all games all the time as there are no open dates left.  Makes it difficult to practice and for guys to show what they got.  In our case, we are regressing.  I wouldn't use weather to make my decision.  

The facility thing is probably doable in a cheaper state like Wisconsin.  Here in IL, forget it.  A few have tried.  Ended up bankrupt.  Places are packed the winter.  Summer it's a ghost town, but the bills still need to be paid.  What they could potentially do however, is a HS field complex like Lakepoint.  4 HS sized field with turf and lights.  It would all schools to play even if it rained during the day.  We get knocked out by the 3:00 storm that rolls thru and it's perfect weather by 4:00.  But the field is too wet to play.  

golf you just hit one of my pet peeves.  Fact is coaches are lazy now a days.  Of course not all but most.  Back in the day before Illinois restricted amount of games you could play My high school played 50+ games.  We were almost never rained out.  When it was raining during the day coach would allow some of us to get out of school to work on the field.  We would dig a hole in our low spots.  Everyone knows where the low spots are on their field.  We would put bilge pumps in the holes.  The rain would run into the hole and get pumped into the parking lot.  We used fans, flames and whatever else we could.  When I coached the coaches gave up their prep periods to work on the field and take players out of study hall to help.  Now the young new wave coach sits on his ass and says the field is unplayable.  Many of these coaches are from outside the building sadly.  Our profession is dying lets be honest.  Now its a hobby for these guys.  For us it was a passion.

2020dad posted:
Golfman25 posted:

Ok, a few things.  As our season starts to wind down, it's be a real crap show.  Even so, I am still leaning play for HS.  But can perfectly understand why one would choose not to.  

Northern springs are always an issue.  But this spring was an aberration.  In the past we have had a few good days, followed by a few bad days, followed by a few good.  So the disruptions were minimal.  This season, it was weeks at a time.  So, like most it's at all games all the time as there are no open dates left.  Makes it difficult to practice and for guys to show what they got.  In our case, we are regressing.  I wouldn't use weather to make my decision.  

The facility thing is probably doable in a cheaper state like Wisconsin.  Here in IL, forget it.  A few have tried.  Ended up bankrupt.  Places are packed the winter.  Summer it's a ghost town, but the bills still need to be paid.  What they could potentially do however, is a HS field complex like Lakepoint.  4 HS sized field with turf and lights.  It would all schools to play even if it rained during the day.  We get knocked out by the 3:00 storm that rolls thru and it's perfect weather by 4:00.  But the field is too wet to play.  

golf you just hit one of my pet peeves.  Fact is coaches are lazy now a days.  Of course not all but most.  Back in the day before Illinois restricted amount of games you could play My high school played 50+ games.  We were almost never rained out.  When it was raining during the day coach would allow some of us to get out of school to work on the field.  We would dig a hole in our low spots.  Everyone knows where the low spots are on their field.  We would put bilge pumps in the holes.  The rain would run into the hole and get pumped into the parking lot.  We used fans, flames and whatever else we could.  When I coached the coaches gave up their prep periods to work on the field and take players out of study hall to help.  Now the young new wave coach sits on his ass and says the field is unplayable.  Many of these coaches are from outside the building sadly.  Our profession is dying lets be honest.  Now its a hobby for these guys.  For us it was a passion.

Hey, don't give up hope.  I have had the pleasure of watch and listening to some excellent coaches over the past two years coach our opponents.  Yeah, they tend to be the older fellows.  But I think part of the problem is the "young kids" don't get a chance.  It's not a meritocracy.  Instead seniority rules.  In our case the less qualified older guy got the nod ahead of the "kid" who had only been there for a couple of years.  Well, guess what?  Rumor is he's bolting for a better gig. 

Ironic thing is, the one young coach they gave a chance -- a fantastic young woman -- has built a girls program from the cellar to multiple regional championship games.  She is so dedicated that she actually attends local youth practices to work with the coaches on what they should do and teach.  

phillyinNJ posted:
RJM posted:

Healthquest Sports Dome at Diamond Nation

Flemington, NJ

https://vimeo.com/35835322

While it appears there isn't an outfield, look closely. The fence around the infield is removable. There’s a full outfield beind the partition. In the spring they collapse the dome and remove it.

I think they only allow 13U and below to play in the dome...but still better than nothing.

When my son was in high school (turning 25 now) they had a Sunday winter high school league. Maybe things have changed. Maybe hitting homers off the back wall was bad for the dome.

I guess it depends .....if your kid is looking to play down south in college and lives in the north for 99% of the kids it doesn't matter. (If they are the 1% they will come see him). Get on the best travel ball program possible that has a reputation for being followed by college scouts and then go perform down south in the summer. This is hard to do when your only in one or two tourneys at PG. if  the kid wants to play in the north and lives there then the quality of competition may matter a bit more but at the end of the day if he's got to have skills that obviously separate him from the pack. Of course all this depends on what level the kid is projected to play at  by the scout (not the dad)

Just received some info that is relevant to this thread. A 2018 player quit the HS baseball team last fall due to frustrations with the program/coach. He was a good player, though definitely not a stud (and probably not D1 level). He just signed with an NAIA school despite skipping his senior year of HS ball. 

Son played HS in Newport Rhode Island (fog , wind, rain). Pro Scouts saw him on the Summer Curcuit and attended every game and his Soccer and Ice Hockey games from time to time prior to the season. 

He loved his HS teams and players have attended his college games as supporters and hecklers.

He played in SEC and did not sign when drafted out of HS.

The scouts will come, they must come, if the player is considered a "prospect."  Scouts don't just mull around HS games searching for prospects anymore. They scout the big events and create a "Follow" list.

I Recall a scout telling my son, " You'll never see 78 (mph) again."  

Play HS for the fun and enjoyment and future HS Alumni events. Best memories your have.

Play summer with the right team (might not be the area Travel team), and the chances of being seen by scouts is immeasurable.

 

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