Do we understand each other?

Great topic, 2020Dad. This is not directed at any of your posts, just a general observation: this is a great site, with lots of great advice on things like recruiting. It's NOT a site to complain about coaches or playing time -- and on balance that is probably correct, because almost ALL of the time, the parent is delusional, the coach isn't biased, etc. IMHO, it goes too far sometimes, because each situation is different, and subjective, and who the heck knows, without knowing the people involved. To me, the takeaway for kids is "work on getting better, focus on what you can control, keep grinding." For parents, enjoy the ride. And I can live with that.

So when I see a post like the recent topic complaining about a coach, I just avoid it. I don't know if perhaps the situation is the 1% -- or maybe it is 1/10th of 1% -- of the time when the parent is not delusional!

CaCO3Girl posted:

"You will understand when you are older"...I really thought I was done with that phrase when I moved out of my parents house, but apparently gray hair doesn't get me out of that catch all phrase.

When you're a blue hair, you'll understand 

baseballmom posted:

JCG posted:

.  You could ask the moderators for a "Pre-HS Baseball Forum"  and that  might be great. 

Not to highjack, but...

Go to the "Forums tab at top of the page. Under the drop down menu, look at "Guys Gals & Other Groups" for another drop down menu...There you will find the "Pre-High School Forum". 

With this new setup, too many forums are missed, unfortunately...So, now they just aren't as active...Miss the Ladies Only Forum & Unusually Unusual...and many posters, like gotwoodforsale, aka Woody, who kept everyone LOL with his antics!

Yup, I forgot about that.  I guess I'm not a alone, as it's mostly crickets in there, and frequent posters prefer to use  this general items section.

At some point they will all be ex- ballplayers. That being said,  a HS player should not have the pressure of playing college ball....they are high school players. Enjoy the time as they are only in that moment  one time in their young lives. They will get opportunities they earn.

I know the pressure of early college commits is probably at an all time high. Many of the "old school" baseball guy's despise the way recruiting has evolved. I believe there is a place for just about any kid that wants an opportunity to play college ball.

I was once told a story of a player in Texas that tried out all four years in high school. Every year he was cut and would take on the job of manager. He also was allowed to practice with the team. So has it, in his senior year, another player (pitcher) had an injury and he got his opportunity. He was not the biggest, nor the fastest or even threw very hard.  He helped his team, gained recognition and went on to play college ball. Many of you know this guy as he went on to the Rangers organization and later the Braves where he met and gained the trust of a guy named Dayton Moore and the rest is history as he is currently the HS of the ALCS Division Champions and World Series Champions 2015.

My point is, regardless of talent, know your role and help your team. The game can show you a lifetime of experiences and open doors you never would have dreamed through perseverance and patience.

I'm thinking there are a few topics where "you don't understand" is probably an appropriate response from those that have been through the process.  Understanding the level of effort and time management to play at a top tier D1 program is my best example, especially when the kid is going to focus on academics also.  Some may have an inkling as to what it takes, but it never hurts to assume folks underestimate what it takes (I have no first hand experience but now simply assume it is daunting).  Secondly, is the decision to possibly forego college for the draft.  There have been some good practical discussion about money and some others about poor pay, but I've gotten to the point where I realize I could not visualize an 18 yo kid having to manage through all the various aspects to life as a low level MiLB player.  I realize I "don't understand" and leave it at that.  While I still enjoy a good hypothetical discussion on the merits of skipping college, I'd probably want to sit down with someone who has been there and have a long talk before ever dispensing real advice (99.9% confident I will never be placed in that position anyhow).

Probably the best information on this site has to do with hanging up the cleats.  These discussions, whether they involve being squeezed out due to skill level or sidelined by injury, very often help provide some perspective to one's life and purpose.  Right now just trying to enjoy high school and park ball for my younger son and get to as many games as possible.

2019Dad posted:

Great topic, 2020Dad. This is not directed at any of your posts, just a general observation: this is a great site, with lots of great advice on things like recruiting. It's NOT a site to complain about coaches or playing time -- and on balance that is probably correct, because almost ALL of the time, the parent is delusional, the coach isn't biased, etc. IMHO, it goes too far sometimes, because each situation is different, and subjective, and who the heck knows, without knowing the people involved. To me, the takeaway for kids is "work on getting better, focus on what you can control, keep grinding." For parents, enjoy the ride. And I can live with that.

So when I see a post like the recent topic complaining about a coach, I just avoid it. I don't know if perhaps the situation is the 1% -- or maybe it is 1/10th of 1% -- of the time when the parent is not delusional!

 

I hear you and 100% agree.  But we could still be just a tad nicer.  But it goes beyond the 'getting screwed' people.  What about the guy who recently asked what was a good velo  for a 9 year old?  And those who ask questions about college when their kid is 12?  Etc.  just a little more understanding is all I ask.  And again I realize sometimes comes the point you have to call an idiot an idiot - or like you said - just ignore it!

justbaseball posted:

Its a good thread topic 2020dad.  One thing you should not miss though and that is we all face the 'end-of-the-road' issue eventually with our sons and baseball.

I don't know how others feel, but I do sense this in your words.  You/I think, 'If he could just get to the 'next' level, he/I would be happy and feel like he reached the goal.'

I can tell you that just isn't true.  If your son reaches college, all you want is for him to reach pro ball. If he reaches pro ball, all you want is for him to make the next level of pro ball. If he reaches the big leagues, all you want for him is to get one AB, throw one pitch.  If he throws one pitch in the big leagues, all you want is for him to get one out. If he gets one out, all you want for him is to stick.  If he sticks, all you want for him is to....

It never ends it seems and while I/we have experienced many of those things, we too can only imagine what its like to be Buster Posey.

So true.  People wear t-shirts that say "baseball is life", but they probably don't mean the part about life coming to an end for all of us sooner or later.   Kind of like in life, you may never know when it's going to happen.   But it's going to happen for sure.

2020dad posted:

justbaseball posted:

Its a good thread topic 2020dad.  One thing you should not miss though and that is we all face the 'end-of-the-road' issue eventually with our sons and baseball.

I don't know how others feel, but I do sense this in your words.  You/I think, 'If he could just get to the 'next' level, he/I would be happy and feel like he reached the goal.'

I can tell you that just isn't true.  If your son reaches college, all you want is for him to reach pro ball. If he reaches pro ball, all you want is for him to make the next level of pro ball. If he reaches the big leagues, all you want for him is to get one AB, throw one pitch.  If he throws one pitch in the big leagues, all you want is for him to get one out. If he gets one out, all you want for him is to stick.  If he sticks, all you want for him is to....

It never ends it seems and while I/we have experienced many of those things, we too can only imagine what its like to be Buster Posey.

Wow, that's one of the greatest posts I have ever seen on here.  Though it's not addressing the spirit of the thread I am so thankful you posted it.  I am prepping him for the letdown. High school baseball is a forgone conclusion. I know some may not like to hear that but I know he will play four years of high school.  So he doesn't stress about that.  He is thinking about his dream school.  I am talking him down a bit and explaining he can have a great experience at a lower level. But at the same time doing all I can for him to help make his dream come true.  But you're right it's almost an exercise in futility.  If he made it to his dream school (right now he says 35th man on the roster is all he wants - then he will work from there) then he will want playing time, to start, to get drafted etc.  I have been so focused on not letting him down and helping him all I can - because I respect the adult like commitment he makes and his pure love for the game - that I have lost sight of the fact it will truly never be enough.  He rarely talks about an mlb dream.  It's always about that particular power 5 school. So I have been lulled into believing that's the goal - the end all be all.  But you're right even if he works so hard and I practically die trying with him and he suits up one day in that uniform...  He would want more.  How crushing as a parent to realize you can't help your son to his dream because he will then just change his dream!  I am serious when I say your post has been an epiphany for me.  And makes me a bit sad at the same time.  I know you are probably right but I will be hoping you are wrong.  I will hope he plays college ball someday and that's enough for him and he will be proud and happy.  What a great post and yet what a downer all at the same time...

2020, I don't think it is a downer, at all.  The dream is that of our son's. Part of the guidance which can come from this great site (and has for many years) is the stark appreciation we have as parents when we realize our son's can have highs and lows with the one constant being our support for them either way and our parental ability and willingness to let them "make" the best of their journey. 

I have seen the "dream"school experience and have a son who had it "shattered."  I have seen the D1 dream, and have a son who had it "shattered" into reality. I have seen the son who had both shattered, had a D3 coach see our son as one of the building blocks for what he envisioned as a National power and got to share a trip back to that school with our son a few weeks back to see how far they have come, how close he remains to his school and the coaching staff and to fully appreciate that what he started in baseball and what we helped build from a financial foundation has a team which is a contender every year for Appleton.

I have seen the kid with the dream of MLB overcome all the odds and get drafted out of a D3 as a position player.  I have seen our son run onto the field in the MWL All Star game in Peoria, Ill.  where he competed and succeeded against #1 picks and he ended up being a major topic for the media...the D3 kid making it in Milb.

I have been with him when he was on the cusp of "making it" in Milb and his organization, only to have a botched labrum surgery bring things to a slow tortuous end for him. I am with him now as he starts sharing his love of baseball with our Grandson, whom he named Derek, for a reason. I get to see the happiness in his face when he and his son share "baseball."

What I think this site, and many who continue to post into it, permits is for those coming behind to see and appreciate that baseball can provide very different "routes" to "making it," especially for those of our son's who are not Power 5 selections in this crazy world of recruiting.

As I read your posts on the site, I don't think you can "help" your son "make his dream come true" in the ways I interpret your posts, and I don't think you can "prepare" him if that does not happen, nor do I think we, as parents, should expect that of ourselves.  That is a huge burden you are putting on yourself.

It is our son's dream!  They have to want it, sacrifice for it, prepare for it, take risks for it and to compete for it.  To be honest, it was only after the injury ended our son's career that his 8th grade English teacher shared with us an essay our son had written in 8th grade about his "dream" of playing at his Pac12 dream school, getting drafted and succeeding in professional baseball.  When I sat with our son in Boston after a very successful NECBL Summer season and we talked about the option open to him to transfer to an ACC school or stay with his D3, I muffled around plenty about what I thought....without much success. When I finally came to my senses and asked "what was important" to him, he was clear and concise-graduate in 4 years and have a chance to be drafted.
Our son made that choice and made both happen.

2020, what is so great and important about college baseball is the fact that our son's are usually distant from us, physically.  It helps us, as parents, realize and most importantly, appreciate, it is about them, it is their dream and they get to make it happen...or not, surrounded by teammates, competitors and coaches who actually make the biggest difference.

One thing I can tell you from the rear view mirror, the HS senior who had his D1 and Pac 12 school dreams shattered never once regrets the choice he made with the opportunity which the D3 coach and program provided to him.  In fact, he completely appreciates the very best happened for him and he made the very best of the opportunity he didn't know existed as  a HS senior.  That is why I keep posting on this site, to an extent.  Players who love the game of baseball but don't make the D1/Power 5 dream as a HS senior/college freshman can  still have baseball opportunities which end up with them on the same field with Buster Posey's. 

Great OP and comments. I empathize with the OP. My 2017 is a very talented, hard-working player not blessed with big size, and that's going to limit him to D3s. And I'm not sure if my son wants to go that route, so club baseball might be in the cards. But in the meantime, I'm going to savor this HS season as much as possible because I know it will be over in a flash.

Some good points. This site thrives because it gives parents and players a place to go to figure out how to help their son get through the in's and outs of recruiting to get to play in college, whatever the level. As part of it there is lots of parallel discussions on baseball in general and then specific issues on pitching, hitting, umpiring, etc. All of these are great, and from year to year I have seen them ebb and flow depending on what members are interested in. The old pitching and hitting forums used to be so much fun because there were some crazy folks arguing all kinds of things, specific to their point of view. TRhit - I used to hate him and love him both. (still do actually if he is reading these threads as I expect him to be if he can) Look up "Marshall" and you will see all kinds of interesting threads. 

My point is that if you are interested in a specific baseball topic post it and "talk about it" you will find some interested parties, regardless where their son plays or played. 

In the end - EVERYONE's baseball career ends (pro, or organized by a school). You can keep playing men's league's until your 80 or so. (I have seen it!)  Some never play in HS, some end in HS, some end in college, some end in the minors, and for a very very few they get to play in the MLB. 

Personally I stick around to help those that are looking to find a way to get their son to play at the next level as a thank you to those who helped me. Most of my son's friends never played in college, I think three of them from his HS team actually made a Varsity roster in college. He had some play club, some make JV rosters, and others just give it up. Does that make any one of them "better" than the other. Nope. 

So stick around and post to your hearts (and time limits) content you will always find someone interested in baseball here.

Cheers, back to work.

Infielddad, Excellent post!  

This is a great thread 2020Dad.

I am a member of a couple different forums and I can say that the "you don't understand, but will someday" comments are pretty universal across these boards, regardless of the sport or topic. Unfortunately, even as adults, we sometimes have to learn things our own way and in our own time so the advice from the people who have come before us doesn't always hit it's mark. I can also say that the rough treatment of new posters, especially when the topic is "fairness" or "bad coaching" or "Pro ball", is also a universal and unfortunate reaction. On the flip side, I see how this happens. You get the same questions from new people on a regular basis. It gets a little tiring, so often the best response, at least for me, is to skip those topics altogether.

I came here because my son wants to play college baseball. It's very important to him to play and earn a college degree. I knew nothing about recruiting and neither do the people on our HS team. Because I found this board, we (yes I also said we because I am helping him every step of the way) have a recruiting plan, targeted schools and a Club baseball team. I have also made some great contacts with people here who have offered some wonderful advice. I would not have known even where to start without the resources here. For that I am so grateful.

I don't think my son is a Power5 conference player, but don't tell that to him. As a Sophomore, he still has some pretty big dreams and while I am not trying to deflate those dreams, I also feel it's my job to insert some reality into this process and make sure that he is aware of all the options available to him. I think the majority of the people who visit this board, either as members or guests, are probably in this same situation. They just may not be the most outspoken members.

My older child had big dreams in another sport. It is one of most heartbreaking things to watch them slowly realize that those dreams are not going to come true and come to terms with the eventual end of their "career". The upside to that is helping them find new passions and goals. And, although my 2016 daughter will not be competing in her first sport at the collegiate level, she will be a D1 athlete in a totally different sport that she had never considered until just a few years ago. Watching your child pursue their dreams is one of the greatest joys of parenting.

I guess I probably would be considered one of those that don't respond as nicely as some think I should.

Too bad.  No apologies.

We made a lot of mistakes along the way,  the biggest one was not enjoying the moments. So when I say slow down and enjoy the ride, I mean it and it is the first thing that I always mention to a new poster.  While for many these things seem important, you will look back and laugh at the anxiety you faced over very unimportant age appropriate things in your child's baseball development, just as you will in their everyday development.

The interface of the site on mobile especially is very difficult to follow, there are categories you can search through to find information, and topics like improving a 12 year olds velo would belong in the middle school forum. But people don't BOTHER to search, they have an agenda. 

This site is not about the elite player, this site is about ALL players trying to make their HS baseball team and then possibly continuing after HS, at every level. What happens is that most who come here are only begin seeking information on D1 programs, even top programs and they have actually no idea what that entails.  I just posted to someone last night about how difficult it is to be involved in a power5 conference school and FWIW, my son HATED his first season (until the made regionals and a super regional and one game away from Omaha calling themselves a "bunch of scrubs").   Its not for everyone, I have said that over and over and over.  I am sorry if you think its a superior attitude, it's not. Its reality.

I was recently told in some words more or less, I brag about son?  About what? He's not trying to make a HS roster, a college roster not even a milb roster, that's over. When I came here I searched for answers and listened to those whose sons went through similar recruiting experiences as son was experiencing, when he reached HS. I learned a lot by observing. So I relate some stories so that those that have sons with similar talents can learn as they go. I only hope that others have learned from this as I have from others.  I know if I had a son interested in D3, I would hang onto every word posted by Fenway.  And if I thought that my son needed a juco year or two, I would seek out fanofgame, bacdorslider or baseball man.  

In case no one noticed, there are many folks who come to announce where their players committed or signed, there are always congratulations.  It has nothing to do with where, but it has all to do with that he did. 

One of our players gets hurt, seriously, I see an out pouring of real concern. While from some with lots of complaints , I see no concern. These people just have agendas.

I also enjoy talking baseball but I admit that I detest the endless complaints about bad coaches, players not getting their "fair shake", the recruiter screwed my son, he got a better offer, the coach plays others thast are as good as my son. I mean we had someone posting about a player not starting enough games and for the life of me and someone else, everything looked good to us considering the college season is just getting started. I mean chill out, this is real life folks!  Nothing comes easy even to the studs!  Maybe someday some of us will share some of the stuff you really don't want to know about that has happened to some of our players along the way!!!  Yikes!

And sorry, I don't care how many D1 programs have contacted or called your son, how many scouts showed up, how many invites you have for national showcases.  Reason being is until your son signs his NLI, gets drafted, it doesn't mean much.  We had a dad here years ago, bragged how many letters his son got, how many big time coaches called his son, finally signed at a mid d1 and blamed it on PGstaff because he wasn't invited to their showcases. That's just one example folks!

Lately there are more and more folks asking about college before their kids have entered HS or made a HS team. Can anyone answer, WHY?  Seriously, I would like to understand why the rush? 

Some great responses, I can relate. However, BOF made me chuckle, because most of you here have no idea how it used to be here on the HSBBW.

Dang! When I saw all the volume and started reading through this thread, I was sure that at some point I'd find something of value. Turns out it's just a whole lot of comments about commenting.

I hope it's valuable for some, but I can't imagine how it could be. It certainly won't be for parents looking for answers.

No matter how great or average your son is, I love coming here to read about baseball and baseball players.

Not to see HSBBW jump the shark.

You're too tough, JP!  Some good stuff here, especially from JustBaseball and Infielddad.

Yeah, the thread's a bit meta but still plenty of baseball going on.

I would love to talk about how my kid, average or great is doing but it seems like bad form, not to mention bad luck.

I will brag on how many MLB games I'll be going to see this year.  Can't wait!

JCG posted:

You're too tough, JP!  Some good stuff here, especially from JustBaseball and Infielddad.

Yeah, the thread's a bit meta but still plenty of baseball going on.

I would love to talk about how my kid, average or great is doing but it seems like bad form, not to mention bad luck.

I will brag on how many MLB games I'll be going to see this year.  Can't wait!

The college and high school spring baseball topics were created for you to tell us about your players. Its been that way for awhile.

I, too, have @ 2020 grad and am internet 'friend' of CaCO on a Georgia baseball forum. She told me about this site and I lurked for a while before becoming a member/contributor. 

First, I will say that my son's dream is NOT my dream. He wants to play college football and baseball.  That's his desire! I don't ask him to hit, catch, throw or do any kind of workout but will gladly do any of them if he asks. He has to take ownership of the process.

I have never made excuses for him as a player. In fact, he batted 9th or 10th for my team two years ago because that's where he belonged. He understood early on that if it was remotely close between he and another player, he lost. My message to him has been consistent through the years..."work harder!"

I have a different perspective than a lot of parents because I can remember the day that my brief minor league career ended. So although I encourage my son to be the best ball player he can be, I am more interested in him becoming the best human being that he can be. 

This has been the first year that I haven't coached him and am really just enjoying being a dad.  My reason for joining this site was simple...to not make the same mistakes that other have. I listen to the advice that applies to my situation...I sincerely do... but I will also offer advice that I can share from my playing and coaching days. So to each his own...I guess...but I think we are all just trying to support our sons the best that we know how. I am thankful to all who share a piece of their journey...whatever it may be. Here's what I do know...sports will never come between my son and me.  I refuse to let that happen!

Agree this is a HS baseball site but i would submit that MOST parents on here, because lets get real....it 99% are parents on here not players, want their kid to play college ball. Their interests are focused primarily on the sexy D1 and if possible a Power 5 conference school. What i like about this site other than our "Obi-Wan like" predecessors dispensing advice based on personal experience, is the fact that you can ask anything and get a diverse response from folks who are right there with you now or have been through the same thing or give you the coach's/fan perspective on how you could reconsider your take. As usual, not all advice will be taken in stride and feelings will get hurt at times but i don't believe most intend to personally attack anyone.

Another aspect i really like is the wisdom dispensed about Mid Majors, D2's and D3's being options and the experiences shared on those schools/experiences. After all, baseball is the dream and at some point the kid needs to decide if that dream is worth pursuing vs being a typical student. I hope that all kids get the chance to pursue college ball and most info gleaned here could help parents navigate the sticky HS issues with coaches, playing time, fundrasing etc or items related to the recruitment trail and stressors related to that process.

All that being said, i ask that people's efforts be invested in being the cheerleader/advocate and not the crab in the barrel. It will help our sport, this board and the players we all represent in this great game of baseball.

bacdorslider posted:

For instance, you can have a player that has matured early for his age throwing 87-88 with little control and no polished off-speed and he is a beast at the average high school.  You will hear the uninformed say he's D1 !   He's going in the draft.  What I see is a player who does not have the tools to play in college, no off-speed control, cannot spot fast ball, too much motion, little room to improve.

Conversely , there might be a 6'3 string bean throwing 84-85 with a clean , quick arm.... still head and soft feet spotting his pitches and has a good spin on his off speed.   This player will give up some runs in high school, but has the tools to play in college.

What a great breakdown right here! 

CmassRHPDad posted:

bacdorslider posted:

For instance, you can have a player that has matured early for his age throwing 87-88 with little control and no polished off-speed and he is a beast at the average high school.  You will hear the uninformed say he's D1 !   He's going in the draft.  What I see is a player who does not have the tools to play in college, no off-speed control, cannot spot fast ball, too much motion, little room to improve.

Conversely , there might be a 6'3 string bean throwing 84-85 with a clean , quick arm.... still head and soft feet spotting his pitches and has a good spin on his off speed.   This player will give up some runs in high school, but has the tools to play in college.

What a great breakdown right here! 

Yes he gets it!

What gets lost by some is what is the difference between a good player and a good prospect.  There is a huge difference and all coaches seek out different types for their program.  

Then comes the draft. People don't understand why their player wasn't drafted while someone with less than stellar stats is. People come seeking answers, sometimes it doesn't come off as sweet as they want to hear, a lot of that is lost in translation.  

I just am not really sure what point is being made here.  Maybe it's me.

All I know is I will continue to post my past experiences and what new ones I am learning. If you don't like the response, use the block option.