Do we understand each other?

"Agree this is a HS baseball site.."

Having been on her a very long time, I fully understand many join and view the site as having this focus.  Actually, the site was founded with a much broader vision involved.

This is a cut/paste from the site and the reason the founder, Bob Howdeshell created this amazing site, which is stronger as it approaches 20 years than it has ever been:

"The High School Baseball Web went "online" in February of 1998. The reason it was created is this:

After wearing out several search engines I found that there was very little information about the high school baseball experience. As the father of a potential college and/or professional baseball player I could find very little about the college recruiting process or the way the Major League Baseball free-agent player draft worked.

Having no knowledge about website design or how to begin getting an internet site up and running, I foolishly set out to start a high school baseball only place in cyberspace.

Now over five years later, with our oldest son recently graduating from college having completed a career as a football linebacker at an NCAA Division III college and our youngest son heading into his senior year of college as the starting shortstop on an NCAA Division I college baseball program,* I offer my experiences, thoughts and comments on the "ride." And most importantly, with the help of many wonderful people we have been able to form a community of people that share the same passion for high school baseball."

Lately there are more and more folks asking about college before their kids have entered HS or made a HS team. Can anyone answer, WHY?  Seriously, I would like to understand why the rush? 

Not sure when it gets updated and advanced one year, but the PG website currently has a place for 2020 commits to identify themselves - not many there, but aren't these guys 8th graders?  From a much more realistic perspective, the 2019 list is not quite so small and is littered with the big name schools.  I personally would have laughed out loud if there was some suggestion that I start promoting my 8th grader a few years back, but for those who have that dream (either realistic or pipe dream), getting educated while they are in 8th grade probably makes sense.  Unfortunately there are probably only a handful of 2020 kids that have any business talking to schools and way too many parents who continue to project way too much.  Lots of good repeat comments on the board about getting an unbiased assessment and playing against the best available competition in order to determine the best fit.  I think I remember one guy coming on here and asking questions - he had an 8th grader.  Another poster had seen this kid and said he was the real deal.  One could argue that these guys can take their time, but the old school calendar where the summer before Senior year is the most critical no longer applies if you really are good enough for a top 20 program.  I will admit to asking questions where I was getting way ahead of myself, but wanted to get info and and have it at the ready.  Still occasionally ask questions about draft just for the fun of it.  

I think the tone is generally fine.  For those that simply cannot stomach some direct responses, then they are probably not really looking for information.  I've read plenty of blunt responses and like nothing more than when some new poster sticks it out - the stories about how things work out are testament to many old timers who stick around and, despite some gruff comments, truly try to provide guidance on working through the process and remind folks to simply enjoy it while it lasts. 

I don't really buy the 'it isn't easier being the superstar' argument.  I have the baseball player who is playing the just keep one step ahead of the reaper game and a swimmer who is as close to drop dead guarantee D1 even though he is 12.  Great thing about swimming is there is a clock.  He is several seconds away from mid level D1 times (be on the team times not meet winning times) at the age of 12.  He is just a couple seconds away from the slowest of the slow D1 guys.  It would take a major calamity for him not to get there. It's one heck of a lot easier being his dad. He gets fawned over by coaches and parents alike. Even has his little group of girls following him everywhere (yet another thing I never had to deal with!) maybe his six pack of abs helps - my six pack was a little different. Top swimmers from across the state know who he is and he knows them as well.  They have their own little fraternity and rivalries.  He is two time defending state champion in the 1000 free and 4th overall best swimmer in the state.  So that's sort of like being the number 1 catcher and number 4 overall in state by PG rankings.  I just sit back and enjoy the ride. I marvel at what he does.  I have no idea how he is so good.  It's more fun than I can describe watching him compete.  And I am in no hurry to rush his career - of course I have the luxury of knowing he will get there.  Now for the baseball guy.  It's excruciating to watch seeing as though he is good I suppose in the grand scheme of things with so many more behind him than in front of him it might be fair to say really good.  But good enough?  I have my doubts. He works just as hard as the swimmer maybe a bit harder even. He is focused with a burning desire on his goal.  Absolutely loves the game with a passion and respect.  It's nerve wracking wondering if he will make it, wondering if I am doing all I can do to help.  Knowing that it may be possible but he just seems a little behind the curve.  How hard should he work?  How much is too much?   Is there such thing as too much when you have a dream?  Workouts, yoga, extra hitting, video sessions, mental approach sessions, camps, playing extra with another team and even going to high school open gyms.  And still in the end it may not be enough.  I love my two sons equally.  Basketball was my first love so while both play neither has it as their main sport.  This is their dream.  Now I ask you do you really believe it's not easier when your son is the guy?  An absolute stud?  It is. 

2020dad posted:

I don't really buy the 'it isn't easier being the superstar' argument.  I have the baseball player who is playing the just keep one step ahead of the reaper game and a swimmer who is as close to drop dead guarantee D1 even though he is 12.  Great thing about swimming is there is a clock.  He is several seconds away from mid level D1 times (be on the team times not meet winning times) at the age of 12.  He is just a couple seconds away from the slowest of the slow D1 guys.  It would take a major calamity for him not to get there. It's one heck of a lot easier being his dad. He gets fawned over by coaches and parents alike. Even has his little group of girls following him everywhere (yet another thing I never had to deal with!) maybe his six pack of abs helps - my six pack was a little different. Top swimmers from across the state know who he is and he knows them as well.  They have their own little fraternity and rivalries.  He is two time defending state champion in the 1000 free and 4th overall best swimmer in the state.  So that's sort of like being the number 1 catcher and number 4 overall in state by PG rankings.  I just sit back and enjoy the ride. I marvel at what he does.  I have no idea how he is so good.  It's more fun than I can describe watching him compete.  And I am in no hurry to rush his career - of course I have the luxury of knowing he will get there.  Now for the baseball guy.  It's excruciating to watch seeing as though he is good I suppose in the grand scheme of things with so many more behind him than in front of him it might be fair to say really good.  But good enough?  I have my doubts. He works just as hard as the swimmer maybe a bit harder even. He is focused with a burning desire on his goal.  Absolutely loves the game with a passion and respect.  It's nerve wracking wondering if he will make it, wondering if I am doing all I can do to help.  Knowing that it may be possible but he just seems a little behind the curve.  How hard should he work?  How much is too much?   Is there such thing as too much when you have a dream?  Workouts, yoga, extra hitting, video sessions, mental approach sessions, camps, playing extra with another team and even going to high school open gyms.  And still in the end it may not be enough.  I love my two sons equally.  Basketball was my first love so while both play neither has it as their main sport.  This is their dream.  Now I ask you do you really believe it's not easier when your son is the guy?  An absolute stud?  It is. 

With the luxury of having 2 older sons than my 2017 baseball/football player I can tell you that having went through the experience of my older son getting a purple heart in Afghanistan as a combat medic the ups and downs with my remaining kids at home seems anti-climatic.   That is why if my 2017 son gave up baseball and football all together it really wouldn't be that big of deal to me.  I even suggested to the football head coach this year that my 2017 son might help the team more as a tight end than the starting QB.  

As for the question of being concerned about college before high school...  I think most of us here could rightly be accused of false humility if we said we are nervous about our son making the high school team.  Or that we have no idea if he will.  At this point when he (8th grade) goes to the pre season high school open gyms he compares quite favorably right now.  And it's a decent program.  But that next step to the dream (D1) is very much in question. The 'am I going to play high school' question is a formality. No sense sweating it or really giving it any thought. 

2020dad posted:

I don't really buy the 'it isn't easier being the superstar' argument.  I have the baseball player who is playing the just keep one step ahead of the reaper game and a swimmer who is as close to drop dead guarantee D1 even though he is 12.  Great thing about swimming is there is a clock.  He is several seconds away from mid level D1 times (be on the team times not meet winning times) at the age of 12.  He is just a couple seconds away from the slowest of the slow D1 guys.  It would take a major calamity for him not to get there. It's one heck of a lot easier being his dad. He gets fawned over by coaches and parents alike. Even has his little group of girls following him everywhere (yet another thing I never had to deal with!) maybe his six pack of abs helps - my six pack was a little different. Top swimmers from across the state know who he is and he knows them as well.  They have their own little fraternity and rivalries.  He is two time defending state champion in the 1000 free and 4th overall best swimmer in the state.  So that's sort of like being the number 1 catcher and number 4 overall in state by PG rankings.  I just sit back and enjoy the ride. I marvel at what he does.  I have no idea how he is so good.  It's more fun than I can describe watching him compete.  And I am in no hurry to rush his career - of course I have the luxury of knowing he will get there.  Now for the baseball guy.  It's excruciating to watch seeing as though he is good I suppose in the grand scheme of things with so many more behind him than in front of him it might be fair to say really good.  But good enough?  I have my doubts. He works just as hard as the swimmer maybe a bit harder even. He is focused with a burning desire on his goal.  Absolutely loves the game with a passion and respect.  It's nerve wracking wondering if he will make it, wondering if I am doing all I can do to help.  Knowing that it may be possible but he just seems a little behind the curve.  How hard should he work?  How much is too much?   Is there such thing as too much when you have a dream?  Workouts, yoga, extra hitting, video sessions, mental approach sessions, camps, playing extra with another team and even going to high school open gyms.  And still in the end it may not be enough.  I love my two sons equally.  Basketball was my first love so while both play neither has it as their main sport.  This is their dream.  Now I ask you do you really believe it's not easier when your son is the guy?  An absolute stud?  It is. 

You are not going to like my response. 

Your bb son is in 8th grade.  He has a long way to go.

Why can't you just sit back and stop worrying about it and enjoy it the same as you have your other son.

Also, you need to stop making this about you. About how worried you are for him. Are you worried for him or for you?  He will be fine...you may not make it.

Sorry.

BTW, it's not easier, despite what you think.  It doesn't always work that way.

My player was the guy. The pressure and expectations are enormous.  It's not always an easy ride.

TPM posted:

2020dad posted:

I don't really buy the 'it isn't easier being the superstar' argument.  I have the baseball player who is playing the just keep one step ahead of the reaper game and a swimmer who is as close to drop dead guarantee D1 even though he is 12.  Great thing about swimming is there is a clock.  He is several seconds away from mid level D1 times (be on the team times not meet winning times) at the age of 12.  He is just a couple seconds away from the slowest of the slow D1 guys.  It would take a major calamity for him not to get there. It's one heck of a lot easier being his dad. He gets fawned over by coaches and parents alike. Even has his little group of girls following him everywhere (yet another thing I never had to deal with!) maybe his six pack of abs helps - my six pack was a little different. Top swimmers from across the state know who he is and he knows them as well.  They have their own little fraternity and rivalries.  He is two time defending state champion in the 1000 free and 4th overall best swimmer in the state.  So that's sort of like being the number 1 catcher and number 4 overall in state by PG rankings.  I just sit back and enjoy the ride. I marvel at what he does.  I have no idea how he is so good.  It's more fun than I can describe watching him compete.  And I am in no hurry to rush his career - of course I have the luxury of knowing he will get there.  Now for the baseball guy.  It's excruciating to watch seeing as though he is good I suppose in the grand scheme of things with so many more behind him than in front of him it might be fair to say really good.  But good enough?  I have my doubts. He works just as hard as the swimmer maybe a bit harder even. He is focused with a burning desire on his goal.  Absolutely loves the game with a passion and respect.  It's nerve wracking wondering if he will make it, wondering if I am doing all I can do to help.  Knowing that it may be possible but he just seems a little behind the curve.  How hard should he work?  How much is too much?   Is there such thing as too much when you have a dream?  Workouts, yoga, extra hitting, video sessions, mental approach sessions, camps, playing extra with another team and even going to high school open gyms.  And still in the end it may not be enough.  I love my two sons equally.  Basketball was my first love so while both play neither has it as their main sport.  This is their dream.  Now I ask you do you really believe it's not easier when your son is the guy?  An absolute stud?  It is. 

You are not going to like my response. 

Your bb son is in 8th grade.  He has a long way to go.

Why can't you just sit back and stop worrying about it and enjoy it the same as you have your other son.

Also, you need to stop making this about you.

Sorry.

 

See, this is the type of response that is a problem. TPM, you always makes comments like this, with some crazy assumption that if someone shows curiosity about a subject or has an opinion (or even asks for one), they are "worrying" or obsessing. You really need to let these things go. A poster offering his own experience while expressing an opinion really shouldn't upset you so much. relax. Breath. If you have a different opinion, express it without insults and vitriol. Others with the wisdom and experience you have seem to be able to express it in a way that actually helps posters rather than run new ones off. Then again, maybe that is your goal?

Look, the reality is that the recruiting cycle, for good or bad, has accelerated for a certain group of players. When an inexperienced parent sees 8th graders knee deep into the recruiting process, they have questions. Now, for the vast majority of 8th graders/freshmen, there is no hurry. They are fine and on-track. However, they don't necessarily know this and have questions. For others, advice to sit tight for a couple of years and "don't worry about it" might not be sound advice. They come here so that people like you, who have been through the journey, can help them understand the difference. This is a chance for you to be of help rather than swat them aside like stupid peasants.

I think most of us here could rightly be accused of false humility if we said we are nervous about our son making the high school team

I think that statement may be a little too broad and aimed at an existing population of posters - not necessarily some mom or dad who stumbles across this site looking for answers.  When some new poster comes on here and asks whether his 8th grader's velocity is good enough for D1, then by all means cut them off at the knees.  Conversely, if they ask if it is good enough for high school, that person needs some appropriate feedback.  I will tell you my 2017 making the high school team was not a certainty.  In fact, when they selected a handful of 8th graders to join the freshman team, my son was not in that group.  Luckily they fielded a decent size freshman team and he made it in 9th grade and rode the pine a good amount of the time -now #1 pitcher on varsity and probably not starting in OF to protect his arm.  Did not help that he was the youngest ballplayer in his class, but he probably needed another year to grow and develop.  If for some reason he had gotten overlooked in 9th grade, then he may have simply hung up his cleats.  Just yesterday someone posted about the kid who played 4 years riding the bench only to get his shot late senior year which allowed him to get into college, then pro.  Sounds like there may have been some concerns over whether or not he would make the cut each year.

Not calling you out and assume you are addressing some known posters (who probably/rightfully have zero concern about making the HS team), but didn't want the casual visitor read that the wrong way.  Some good advice on this board about how one goes about making the high school team.

infielddad, I'm so glad you found Bob's letter...I was looking for it yesterday...Some folks don't realize that he formed hsbaseballweb specifically for getting through HS & playing college or pro. Remember Kris Honel? Andy Howdeshell, Bob's son? Look them up, folks! Read some of the articles & posts from fungo, bama bomber, TR Hit, bighit, OP Pop, HiwaseeVol, Jolly Roger, bbscout, Bullwinkle, PIA Ump & many, many others who have made incredible contributions.

baseballmom posted:

infielddad, I'm so glad you found Bob's letter...I was looking for it yesterday...Some folks don't realize that he formed hsbaseballweb specifically for getting through HS & playing college or pro. Remember Kris Honel? Andy Howdeshell, Bob's son? Look them up, folks! 

 

I didn't read the letter the same way. I think he specifically started the website, "foolishly" he writes, to be "high school only" but then morphed it as his kids grew. I'm here for the reasons you post, but have no problem with parents of younger kids asking questions concerning younger ages. Telling them to go to another board makes some sense on its face, but the truth is, they won't get any answers at some "middle school" board. the people with the experience to answer their questions aren't visiting those sites - they are here.

Roothog66, I just thankful as can be that I stumbled on this site when son was 12-13 (2000-2001). I know profile says 2002, but that is after the site crashed. I was actually trying to find "who, what, where, how" for boys finishing up LL! That's when I learned that there was such a thing called "select ball" or travel ball...We're talking prehistoric mom here! SB /TB was a "new invention" in these parts! 

So, I have so very much to be thankful for! 

2017LHPscrewball posted:

I think most of us here could rightly be accused of false humility if we said we are nervous about our son making the high school team

I think that statement may be a little too broad and aimed at an existing population of posters - not necessarily some mom or dad who stumbles across this site looking for answers.  When some new poster comes on here and asks whether his 8th grader's velocity is good enough for D1, then by all means cut them off at the knees.  Conversely, if they ask if it is good enough for high school, that person needs some appropriate feedback.  I will tell you my 2017 making the high school team was not a certainty.  In fact, when they selected a handful of 8th graders to join the freshman team, my son was not in that group.  Luckily they fielded a decent size freshman team and he made it in 9th grade and rode the pine a good amount of the time -now #1 pitcher on varsity and probably not starting in OF to protect his arm.  Did not help that he was the youngest ballplayer in his class, but he probably needed another year to grow and develop.  If for some reason he had gotten overlooked in 9th grade, then he may have simply hung up his cleats.  Just yesterday someone posted about the kid who played 4 years riding the bench only to get his shot late senior year which allowed him to get into college, then pro.  Sounds like there may have been some concerns over whether or not he would make the cut each year.

Not calling you out and assume you are addressing some known posters (who probably/rightfully have zero concern about making the HS team), but didn't want the casual visitor read that the wrong way.  Some good advice on this board about how one goes about making the high school team.

Point well taken.  Not really calling anyone out but I guess just make assumptions that those on here have kids that are bare minimum for sure hs players.  But you are right that is probably a poor assumption.  And I certainly am all in favor of helping and encouraging them as well.  

baseballmom posted:

Roothog66, I just thankful as can be that I stumbled on this site when son was 12-13 (2000-2001). I know profile says 2002, but that is after the site crashed. I was actually trying to find "who, what, where, how" for boys finishing up LL! That's when I learned that there was such a thing called "select ball" or travel ball...We're talking prehistoric mom here! SB /TB was a "new invention" in these parts! 

So, I have so very much to be thankful for! 

I feel the same way. This site is far more informative than any other site on the web. I'll even say that, despite the frustration I sometimes show with TPM, she has provided invaluable insight many times that has helped me along the journey. I'd never tell her that, though. Whoops, I guess I just did.

TPM.... she just tells it like it is.... you see there is a difference in having lived the experience and talking about the experience. When you speculate the what if's of high end baseball there is no consequence...

When you have had to make decisions and live with the outcome good or bad is when you have earned the right to talk frankly about it.... you have the scars.....

I am just really confused as to how I am making this about me???   His dream not mine.  As for my other son I had never been to a swim meet in my life before he swam.  So that certainly isn't my dream.  Lots of people here talk about their kids informatively by example or just plain out of pride.  I think that's great.  How is any of this about me?  And yes I do stress on behalf of my son.  Who doesn't want to see things work out for their kids?  I guess again what I am saying is when your kid is the stuff (swimmer) you don't have to do anything but sit back and enjoy.  When your kid is possibly able but needs a ton of effort (baseball player) to get there then I am going to join his effort with mine.  

bacdorslider posted:

TPM.... she just tells it like it is.

Maybe she should run for president.

roothog66 posted:

bacdorslider posted:

TPM.... she just tells it like it is.

Maybe she should run for president.

Maybe.... she can be a bit cruel in her approch sometimes... BUT these younger parents come on the board acting like theirs is the end all be all... as a 2018 or 2019 or 2020....  and then they get their feeling hurt ..come on... you want to play big big ball you better wise up... there are more down times than good times... you guys wanting all this for your children and have not had the first phone call from your son at college when things are all shit for him at the moment. 

You think it's roses playing SEC baseball?  Wait til the press talks about your son like he has no business on the field .... wait til that coach that 'loved' your son and outright lied to you about his role.  Wait until the  scholarship dollars change, wait til he brings home a girl , has to drop a class or two.... the coach moves to another school 

Not to mention pro ball that is a huge cruel, scr**w you business.....  And you want to whine about TPM telling you the truth when you asked for it advice about whether a 2019 can play high level D1  ball?   I get it the parents that come on here and act like they are settling for D3 ... you know the ones that say well I know he could play D3 ball ... really.... try completing a international relations degree from Tufts...

Heck we dont know if your son can play LL for that matter... be honest get a real assessment, and for the love of god get an education out of it....  no one ever asks about the education side of playing college baseball..

Worry about the next pitch... it might be your last.... dont worry about the next season....

Ok I'm done.

Preach it, Brother bacdorslider! Preach it!

bacdorslider posted:

roothog66 posted:

bacdorslider posted:

TPM.... she just tells it like it is.

Maybe she should run for president.

Maybe.... she can be a bit cruel in her approch sometimes... BUT these younger parents come on the board acting like theirs is the end all be all... as a 2018 or 2019 or 2020....  and then they get their feeling hurt ..come on... you want to play big big ball you better wise up... there are more down times than good times... you guys wanting all this for your children and have not had the first phone call from your son at college when things are all shit for him at the moment. 

You think it's roses playing SEC baseball?  Wait til the press talks about your son like he has no business on the field .... wait til that coach that 'loved' your son and outright lied to you about his role.  Wait until the  scholarship dollars change, wait til he brings home a girl , has to drop a class or two.... the coach moves to another school 

Not to mention pro ball that is a huge cruel, scr**w you business.....  And you want to whine about TPM telling you the truth when you asked for it advice about whether a 2019 can play high level D1  ball?   I get it the parents that come on here and act like they are settling for D3 ... you know the ones that say well I know he could play D3 ball ... really.... try completing a international relations degree from Tufts...

Heck we dont know if your son can play LL for that matter... be honest get a real assessment, and for the love of god get an education out of it....  no one ever asks about the education side of playing college baseball..

Worry about the next pitch... it might be your last.... dont worry about the next season....

Ok I'm done.

For me it's all about getting a free education. I played with three guys who made it to the show. One will be a HoF'er but one only last a couple of years. I tell my son all the time to learn from his mistakes and enjoy his successes but current success will mean nothing next month, much less next year. 

Again, I am not a dream killer but I do try to help my son focus on what's most important so I get what you're saying...even as the parent of an 8th grader. :-)