Do we understand each other?

2020dad posted:

My final word on this (unless of course I am called out).  This is an open forum.  If those that run it wish to they can make it private for only the old guard and upper echelon. 

Well, my last point to you. You wanna everything to be nice, but then you make a statement like that, makes no sense.  What does making those site private have to do with it?  Whon said that?

This is a great example of something we all don't do and I take responsibility, think before you post and maybe you (well not you necessarily) will get a different response.

I entirely disagree with a statement you made, which I am allowed, no one really quite understands the entire journey unless you have personally been through it.  

CaCO3Girl posted:

roothog66 posted:

Also, this crap is NOT good for my blood pressure.

Root, save your red face for when your kid is pitching and it seems to take 6 outs to end the inning : - )

EXACTLY the point. This is small stuff guy, you haven't seen nothing yet!!!!!

TPM posted:

2020dad posted:

My final word on this (unless of course I am called out).  This is an open forum.  If those that run it wish to they can make it private for only the old guard and upper echelon. 

Well, my last point to you. You wanna everything to be nice, but then you make a statement like that, makes no sense.  What does making those site private have to do with it?  Whon said that?

This is a great example of something we all don't do and I take responsibility, think before you post and maybe you (well not you necessarily) will get a different response.

I entirely disagree with a statement you made, which I am allowed, no one really quite understands the entire journey unless you have personally been through it.  

 

The whole point of that post was that I guess being nice simply is not possible.  Too bad but apparently true.  And you have no way of knowing what I or anyone else understands or doesn't understand.  so we can agree to disagree.  

TPM posted:

CaCO3Girl posted:

roothog66 posted:

Also, this crap is NOT good for my blood pressure.

Root, save your red face for when your kid is pitching and it seems to take 6 outs to end the inning : - )

EXACTLY the point. This is small stuff guy, you haven't seen nothing yet!!!!!

TPM, what are you doing?  Be nice.

Great site, you bring value, everybody trying to learn, nobody perfect...

You can help and be nice at the same time.  

This is ugly...

Gov posted:

TPM posted:

CaCO3Girl posted:

roothog66 posted:

Also, this crap is NOT good for my blood pressure.

Root, save your red face for when your kid is pitching and it seems to take 6 outs to end the inning : - )

EXACTLY the point. This is small stuff guy, you haven't seen nothing yet!!!!!

TPM, what are you doing?  Be nice.

Great site, you bring value, everybody trying to learn, nobody perfect...

You can help and be nice at the same time.  

This is ugly...

Ahhh see how things get misunderstood!

Don't I always say don't sweat the small stuff!  CaCo point was on point!!

Lighten up folks!

MrBumstead posted:

2019Dad posted:

Great topic, 2020Dad. This is not directed at any of your posts, just a general observation: this is a great site, with lots of great advice on things like recruiting. It's NOT a site to complain about coaches or playing time -- and on balance that is probably correct, because almost ALL of the time, the parent is delusional, the coach isn't biased, etc. IMHO, it goes too far sometimes, because each situation is different, and subjective, and who the heck knows, without knowing the people involved. To me, the takeaway for kids is "work on getting better, focus on what you can control, keep grinding." For parents, enjoy the ride. And I can live with that.

So when I see a post like the recent topic complaining about a coach, I just avoid it. I don't know if perhaps the situation is the 1% -- or maybe it is 1/10th of 1% -- of the time when the parent is not delusional!

 

Agree that it's pointless to complain about a coach and/or playing time where no one else actually knows either the coach or the kid.

Completely agree that the only effective way for the kid to combat issues with the coach and/or playing time is "work on getting better, focus on what you can control, keep grinding."  And at the same time, be a great teammate.

But I just don't get the seemingly pervasive attitude on here that 99+% of the time the coach is right simply because he's the coach.

If there was a sabremetric-type rating for coaches, one thing would be mathematically certain: roughly half of them would get a below-average rating.  (The same is true for all professions.  Next time you go to the emergency room, remember that 50% of all doctors graduated in the bottom half of their class in med school.)

Every coach is going to have strengths and weaknesses, just like everyone else in any other line of work.  A coach may be a great instructor, a brilliant in-game tactician, and be the best fungo hitter in a 100-mile radius... but still be mediocre (or at least, inconsistent) at evaluating talent and absolutely suck at relating to the kids, or even human beings in general.  (Admit it.  Some coach's name just popped into your head.)

Just like every other instructor of any kind, the foundational basis for any coach's methods and decisions is his/her personal biases formed by their own unique collection of experiences.  The broader his/her experience base, the less those initial biases affect his/her coaching.  If you're a 5-8 basketball player and the head coach is 25 years old and 6-9, the coach may not see the value you bring to the team.  But if the coach is 55 years old and 6-9, he/she is much more likely to have a better appreciation for your skills.

You will find the same mix of personality and character flaws in the coaching ranks that you find in the rest of the population.  If one of those flaws happens to be arrogance, then said coach will likely have a difficult time adjusting for his weaknesses and/or biases because he won't believe that he has any.

Plus, you have the rather unique aspect of baseball, wherein players competing for the same position typically don't compete directly against each other in practice.  (Unlike for example football, where you can have two linebackers smash into each other to see which one physically dominates the other.  Or wrestling, where you just have the kids wrestle in practice and the winner starts on varsity.)  Decisions tend to be much more subjective than other sports.

Put those factors together, and it is inevitable that there is going to be a significant number of high school baseball players that for whatever reason don't get opportunities commensurate with their abilities.  In this sport, beauty is often very much in the eye of the beholder.  It's easy for just about anyone to spot the kids whose talent glass is overflowing, and the ones whose glass is empty.  But for the kids in the middle, many are going to have a coach that is always going to focus on the empty portion of their glass, but only see the full portion of their teammates' glasses.

It does happen.  Just like in the business world the best applicant doesn't always get the job or the promotion.

Again, it's pointless to air the grievance on a message board (or Facebook, or Twitter...).  But I really don't get crucifying those parents on the assumption that the coach is almost always right.

(Hope I haven't offended any of the coaches who contribute here.)

Ah, fair enough. I suppose I overstated it. I guess the way I look at it is: the coach gets to decide. Doesn't mean the coach is always right, or that the best players play (see, e.g., Lou Gehrig backing up Wally Pipp; Tom Brady backing up Drew Bledsoe, etc., etc.). And Lord knows different coaches can have very different views about the same kid. 

So when I see one of those posts saying the coach is wrong, I don't crucify the parent on the assumption that the coach is almost always right -- I just steer clear, because . . . how would I know who is right?

2020Dad,

I reread your orginial post.  It made sense to me.  Yes, this is the place to come for a baseball discussion or tangential discussions about baseball.   You are guaranteed that some people will comment or answer your question and others won't.  Read them and move on.   Personally, I've been moved or changed my mind on many situations or issues that I've posted here.  This is why I continue to come back.    I've got heart felt responses, and responses that were not thoroughly thought out.  Without question, others may have felt the same way about my responses.  So be it.  The sun will set, and rise another day. 

Over the last handful of years,  I've met many more parents who's sons are not D1 studs or MLB prospects.  The numbers aren't even close.  Baseball talent is not a requirement for our board.....if it was there would be no board.  I believe there is something for everyone at HSBBWeb and it is what you make it.  So, to answer your question...."Do we understand each other".....sometimes.   Maybe not always but I think most people make the effort to try.   If they don't try, then maybe those are the responses that go out with the trash.   There will be responses that you don't agree with however that person may have put a lot of effort into their response.   Those are the ones you may want to look closer at.  

As always, JMO.

2020Dad, actually, this is an interesting thread and some good discussion.  I think a lot of things happen on forums like this that are both intended and not intended.  Often, I think that members read some type of inflection on a response that was not intended by the person making a post.  I know that has happened a few times when I have posted something.  Some times I have been critical of others.  It is a message board.  Some of us old timers have been through experiences with our player(S) or children and we want to help via examples or stories.  At times, and for some, that isn't taken well.  To be sure, I have read posts and or threads where some posters need to be told the truth about things like the recruitment process.  I recall one thread where a member posted comments as indisputable facts when I had players experience just the opposite.  I was then condemned by the OP of that thread for misleading members.  At that point I did reply with the resume and all of the college coaches I not only know but know well. 

The members I know via pms etc. from this site and have known for a very long time are here to try to help.  I do apologize if I have been one of those that seem gruff.  I have tried to post less here and on other sites because I think it is time for me personally to back off and just be a reader. 

2020dad posted:

hshuler posted:

The recruiting game has changed. Now, I realize that an offer means nothing until the NLI is signed.

I know of a current 9th grade football player who has 23 offers and about 11 or so we're before he ever stepped on a high school campus. I also personally know a current 9th grader who had four D1 baseball offers.  He ran a 6.5/60 in December. 

Now, before the eye-rolling starts, I know that this guarantees nothing in the future but these kids are the top 1% athletes and colleges know realize this. Even 'can't miss' prospects miss a lot of the time. What I am most happy about is that these kids will most likely get a free or partially free education. The degree is the ticket! 

No need for eye rolling.  This is a very real thing.  The number 3 guy in the nation for his class works out in our facility a lot.  I love watching him hit. There is a reason he was a big time D1 commit in 8th grade.  Now they can't get the agents to stop calling!  He may never get to college.  Don't want to get sidetracked into the old when can you tell thing but sometimes ya just can. 

How does a kid get a national rating and who is doing the rating?  

Go44dad posted:

bacdorslider posted:

The problem can be this.... young parents want for their children we all do.... but unless you are being honest with your self and willing to listen and be open minded to the fact Jonny is probably not as good as you think then we cannot help you.....

This post has been written a thousand times by the "mount rushmore" of posters.  I think most get it.

And his name is not Johnny.

LOL the ONE thing this site has taught me. 

Do NOT let my son name my grandson "Johnny". 

lionbaseball posted:

2020dad posted:

hshuler posted:

The recruiting game has changed. Now, I realize that an offer means nothing until the NLI is signed.

I know of a current 9th grade football player who has 23 offers and about 11 or so we're before he ever stepped on a high school campus. I also personally know a current 9th grader who had four D1 baseball offers.  He ran a 6.5/60 in December. 

Now, before the eye-rolling starts, I know that this guarantees nothing in the future but these kids are the top 1% athletes and colleges know realize this. Even 'can't miss' prospects miss a lot of the time. What I am most happy about is that these kids will most likely get a free or partially free education. The degree is the ticket! 

No need for eye rolling.  This is a very real thing.  The number 3 guy in the nation for his class works out in our facility a lot.  I love watching him hit. There is a reason he was a big time D1 commit in 8th grade.  Now they can't get the agents to stop calling!  He may never get to college.  Don't want to get sidetracked into the old when can you tell thing but sometimes ya just can. 

How does a kid get a national rating and who is doing the rating?  

Perfect game.  

Fenway ... Your something for everyone prompted me to did up a song "Something For Everybody" by Bill Chinnock. I hadn't heard it in twenty years. 

Bill Chinnock was the father of the Asbury Park sound. He tired of the life. He decided to move to Maine. He suggested to his friend Bruce he hook up with his old band members and see what he can do. The rest is history. 

In the meantime, during summers in college we would see Chinnock play in a warehouse converted to a dump club called The Loft. He packed them in. Chinnock eventually went more mainstream. He won an Emmy for Best Score for a TV show.

If anyone is ever near Asbury Park NJ  a visit to The Stone Pony is a must. It's part of rock and roll history. All the New Jersey greats have played there.

And now back to baseball ...

** TR would have liked this post

RJM posted:

Fenway ... Your something for everyone prompted me to did up a song "Something For Everybody" by Bill Chinnock. I hadn't heard it in twenty years. 

Bill Chinnock was the father of the Asbury Park sound. He tired of the life. He decided to move to Maine. He suggested to his friend Bruce he hook up with his old band members and see what he can do. The rest is history. 

In the meantime, during summers in college we would see Chinnock play in a warehouse converted to a dump club called The Loft. He packed them in. Chinnock eventually went more mainstream. He won an Emmy for Best Score for a TV show.

If anyone is ever near Asbury Park NJ  a visit to The Stoned Pony is a must. It's part of rock and roll history. All the New Jersey greats have played there.

And now back to baseball ...

** TR would have liked this post

Attended Monmouth...need I say more.  We knew Bruce before he was BRUCE!  But he didn't start at the Stoned Pony but somewhere on Cookman Ave.

TPM posted:

RJM posted:

Fenway ... Your something for everyone prompted me to did up a song "Something For Everybody" by Bill Chinnock. I hadn't heard it in twenty years. 

Bill Chinnock was the father of the Asbury Park sound. He tired of the life. He decided to move to Maine. He suggested to his friend Bruce he hook up with his old band members and see what he can do. The rest is history. 

In the meantime, during summers in college we would see Chinnock play in a warehouse converted to a dump club called The Loft. He packed them in. Chinnock eventually went more mainstream. He won an Emmy for Best Score for a TV show.

If anyone is ever near Asbury Park NJ  a visit to The Stoned Pony is a must. It's part of rock and roll history. All the New Jersey greats have played there.

And now back to baseball ...

** TR would have liked this post

Attended Monmouth...need I say more.  We knew Bruce before he was BRUCE!  But he didn't start at the Stoned Pony but somewhere on Cookman Ave.

The Fast Lane, but I think it was on 4th and Kingsley. Southside Johnny and The Asbury Jukes was the house band at The Stone Pony at that time.