Right, Orlando, I didn't mean it the way it's stated.
Here's what I meant.
I wouldn't want to be in the bottom 25 "remaining" to be signed.
hahaha....short A is rookie ball. Mrs. TPM. 
quote:Originally posted by swingbuilder:
hahaha....short A is rookie ball. Mrs. TPM.
I don't know any player in short season A ball that considers themselves to be in 'rookie' ball, and the MiLB site identifies them as totally different levels : AAA, AA, Class A (advanced), Class A, Class A (short season), and Rookie. So technically, short season A ball is NOT rookie ball.
I don't care about technicalities. In pro ball. Short season baseball is considered "rookie" League. Most every player in those short season leagues are in their 1st season of pro baseball and the ones who played the year before. Well, they would be a "two year rookie ball player". Thats just the way it is in the industry. Trust me.
Your in rookie ball until you get on a "full season club".
Your in rookie ball until you get on a "full season club".
If there weren't a league designation in MiLB of Rookie, sb, you would be correct insofar as a first-year player is called a "rookie". However, as FBM has pointed out, Short Season is a separate league and designation within the system, and any player transferred from SS to Rookie would, indeed, know he had been demoted.
Not technicality; reality.
Not technicality; reality.
You all make good points, technically swingbuilder is correct, and IMO Orlando and FBM are also correct.
Player destinations are different for every player on different teams and my understanding is according to age and ability. A first year player is definetly a rookie.
According to the question asked my answer was based upon the normal path for MOST HS players, unless very high picks, get assigned rookie complex ball then to rookie low A. MOST college players head to ss, low A or high A. A lot depends on the organizations needs as well.
Swingbuilder, is that better.
Player destinations are different for every player on different teams and my understanding is according to age and ability. A first year player is definetly a rookie.
According to the question asked my answer was based upon the normal path for MOST HS players, unless very high picks, get assigned rookie complex ball then to rookie low A. MOST college players head to ss, low A or high A. A lot depends on the organizations needs as well.
Swingbuilder, is that better.
Your a good sport TPM. I was having a little fun with you as I knew you understand.
When we prepare for the draft and we get to a point in the preparation. We have a designation of 1) We don't want to take any two year "rookie" ball, PLAYERS.
That means PLAYERS that will have to play a second year in a league that is anything other than a FULL SEASON LEAGUE.
The Gulf Coast League is a complex league. Its "rookie ball"
The New York Penn League is a short season league. Its also "rookie ball" when we designate "NO PLAYER THAT HAS TO PLAY TWO YEARS OF ROOKIE BALL"
The preference would be for a player to sign and play rookie ball and then the second season he go to a "FULL SEASON" league.
I could name you over a hundred players who have played 3 straight seasons in a short season league. On the same team. That player is not ready to progress yet from the rookie league because a majority of the players he is playing against are in their 1st season of pro ball each of those 3 years yet he is in his 3rd season.
Also, going from High A to Low A is a demotion ORLANDO and the player also knows he has been demoted. Low A is not rookie ball. Its low A. Rookie ball is short season. Short season is a large majority of players that remain in "extended spring training". Know what that is, ORLANDO?
When we prepare for the draft and we get to a point in the preparation. We have a designation of 1) We don't want to take any two year "rookie" ball, PLAYERS.
That means PLAYERS that will have to play a second year in a league that is anything other than a FULL SEASON LEAGUE.
The Gulf Coast League is a complex league. Its "rookie ball"
The New York Penn League is a short season league. Its also "rookie ball" when we designate "NO PLAYER THAT HAS TO PLAY TWO YEARS OF ROOKIE BALL"
The preference would be for a player to sign and play rookie ball and then the second season he go to a "FULL SEASON" league.
I could name you over a hundred players who have played 3 straight seasons in a short season league. On the same team. That player is not ready to progress yet from the rookie league because a majority of the players he is playing against are in their 1st season of pro ball each of those 3 years yet he is in his 3rd season.
Also, going from High A to Low A is a demotion ORLANDO and the player also knows he has been demoted. Low A is not rookie ball. Its low A. Rookie ball is short season. Short season is a large majority of players that remain in "extended spring training". Know what that is, ORLANDO?
I am trying to answer the original question "what is the normal path for HS later round picks".
May mean different things according to the team.
Cards have three shorter season rookie teams, GLC, Appalachian and NYP all begin playing after extended ends. Not all teams have three rookie level teams. Not all teams have ss. I have seen some HS players spend first season in GLC, then at Johnson City, that's two seasons (not full) of rookie. Some players spent two full seasons in Johnson City, one player spent time in Johnson City, onto NYP, then to low A. I think a lot depends on age as well. The path for college players and high school players appears very different.
Swingbuilder,
I told the MOMS to go easy on you!
May mean different things according to the team.
Cards have three shorter season rookie teams, GLC, Appalachian and NYP all begin playing after extended ends. Not all teams have three rookie level teams. Not all teams have ss. I have seen some HS players spend first season in GLC, then at Johnson City, that's two seasons (not full) of rookie. Some players spent two full seasons in Johnson City, one player spent time in Johnson City, onto NYP, then to low A. I think a lot depends on age as well. The path for college players and high school players appears very different.
Swingbuilder,
I told the MOMS to go easy on you!
Golly gee whiz, SWINGBUILDER, I do know all that; I have a very keen grasp of the obvious.
And I can't tell you how grateful I am for the primer on your terminology. Really. I can't.
And I can't tell you how grateful I am for the primer on your terminology. Really. I can't.
quote:Originally posted by swingbuilder:
Short season is a large majority of players that remain in "extended spring training". Know what that is, ORLANDO?
SB, that isn't correct, at all, for the short season A ball leagues like the NY/PENN and the NWL. It is more true for the short season Rookie leagues like the Pioneer and Applachian.
To say the majority of players in the NY/PENN and NWL came from Extended just isn't right. The rosters in those two leagues are largely made from the draft and then combined with some Latin players in extended who are young and did not get an assignment in April. You might have up to and additional 3 that came through the draft in prior years who were in extended, but 3 would be a lot.
To say a "large majority" from extended make up the rosters in the short season NY/PENN and NWL isn't supported by looking at the rosters and how they are almost always made up of 20-23 or so players from that years draft and/or younger Latin players ranked highly within an organization.
Thanks TPM...I need that assitance!
Infielddad....did I say NY PEN LEAGUE and the NWL? I don't recall saying that.
What I said was a large majority of players in short season leagues.
That would include all short season leagues. You'd be surprised. I'll even make a wager that each of the 30 teams has at least 50 players in extended spring training. Then throw in a full team in the Dominican league and also a full team in the Venezualean League. That pushes the player total above 100.
Sorry Orlando, didn't mean to be a turd.
The path of a lower drafted HS player would almost always involve......
Season 1....Complex league, like the GCL. Some teams don't have a complex team. That means he would probably play in the Pioneer League or the Appalachian League.
Season 2.....Extended Spring training. Then a complex team, like the GCL or the Pioneer League or Appalachian League.
Keep in mind that a player is drafted late because the team feels his abilities are farther away from the big leagues and will need more time to refine. Words like crude and raw get used to describe the player.
Also, keep in mind that a player can move up at anytime to a higher league.
Season 3.....Low A ball is the goal. But not always the result. This is where guys get released because the team feels the player has reached his potential and still isn't good enough to make a full season club.
Hopefully the player moves from Low A to High A during the season.
Season 4......High A or Double A would be the goal.
Season 5.....Double A or Triple A with a chance at a call up by season end to big leagues.
Season 6.....Triple A or Big leagues.
Infielddad....did I say NY PEN LEAGUE and the NWL? I don't recall saying that.
What I said was a large majority of players in short season leagues.
That would include all short season leagues. You'd be surprised. I'll even make a wager that each of the 30 teams has at least 50 players in extended spring training. Then throw in a full team in the Dominican league and also a full team in the Venezualean League. That pushes the player total above 100.
Sorry Orlando, didn't mean to be a turd.
The path of a lower drafted HS player would almost always involve......
Season 1....Complex league, like the GCL. Some teams don't have a complex team. That means he would probably play in the Pioneer League or the Appalachian League.
Season 2.....Extended Spring training. Then a complex team, like the GCL or the Pioneer League or Appalachian League.
Keep in mind that a player is drafted late because the team feels his abilities are farther away from the big leagues and will need more time to refine. Words like crude and raw get used to describe the player.
Also, keep in mind that a player can move up at anytime to a higher league.
Season 3.....Low A ball is the goal. But not always the result. This is where guys get released because the team feels the player has reached his potential and still isn't good enough to make a full season club.
Hopefully the player moves from Low A to High A during the season.
Season 4......High A or Double A would be the goal.
Season 5.....Double A or Triple A with a chance at a call up by season end to big leagues.
Season 6.....Triple A or Big leagues.
quote:The New York Penn League is a short season league. Its also "rookie ball" when we designate "NO PLAYER THAT HAS TO PLAY TWO YEARS OF ROOKIE BALL"
SB, in response to whether you said the NY/Penn league was short season, you did... and it is so it looks like we agree on both.
quote:SB, that isn't correct, at all, for the short season A ball leagues like the NY/PENN and the NWL. It is more true for the short season Rookie leagues like the Pioneer and Applachian.
To say the majority of players in the NY/PENN and NWL came from Extended just isn't right.
This is your quote...I never said the above. you did. What I said was this.....
quote:Short season is a large majority of players that remain in "extended spring training".
A majority of players in ALL of the short season leagues are made up of players that were in extended spring training. I wasn't specific to the NWL or the Penn league.
I don't know if you are talking about a "majority" which is where you are now, or a "large majority" which is where you were before. They mean something different to me by a "large" factor.
I think I have a decent grasp of the system and process, certainly enough to know that, absent an injury, being left in extended, at the end of Spring Training, at any stage in the process, means you can be playing for your baseball life.
If you are repeating a level, for other than injury reasons, you also can be competing for your baseball life.
If get get moved down a level, for other than injury reasons, you can be competing for your baseball life.
If you are injured, you are competing for your baseball life, but in a very different way.
I think I have a decent grasp of the system and process, certainly enough to know that, absent an injury, being left in extended, at the end of Spring Training, at any stage in the process, means you can be playing for your baseball life.
If you are repeating a level, for other than injury reasons, you also can be competing for your baseball life.
If get get moved down a level, for other than injury reasons, you can be competing for your baseball life.
If you are injured, you are competing for your baseball life, but in a very different way.
Im at Large.
Also your comments would vary per org. But I have no problem with that. In some org's. Players are moved to help a club win. for example 1st half and 2nd half. Notice, I did say some Org's.
Also your comments would vary per org. But I have no problem with that. In some org's. Players are moved to help a club win. for example 1st half and 2nd half. Notice, I did say some Org's.
At "large," both of your points are well taken.
