Drinking on Official Visits

quote:

by C2709: Do you think the coaching staffs and schools of the 8 teams going to the College World Series don't have some sort of no drinking policy?

I don't know where/how you got that into your head ... from my experience during 4 DI seasons, & 4 post seasons w/Omaha ... No, I don't think they do

tobacco? you mean like the coach from an un-named rival in Fla's panhandle w/the wad in his cheek on tv?

in another topic here some pretty reliable sources decribed the harsh warnings they recieved from their staff regarding steroids - - followed up by a house location, ph # and contact name ...
so they'd be sure to avoid it?

quote:

by C2709: As Bee has stated what if a guy goes to Pizza Hut to eat some wings, watch the NCAA tournament and drink a pitcher - he better hope I don't walk in on him because we would be in season.

that's a heck of a season if you're still playing during NBA or NCAA finals

...if you hit .400 you can drink all you want.

I never mentioned the NBA finals - only NCAA finals (tournament) which happens in March. You know March Madness? When do you think college baseball season is played?

Also, everyone is entitled to their opinion and I could care less what you think. I am going to do what I think is right and go from there.

I am now finished posting here because everyone involved is too stuck in what they believe.

quote:

2709 says: LAST YEAR WAS HIS FIRST AND HE IS RELEASING ABOUT HALF THE ROSTER BECAUSE OF DRUG AND ALCOHOL PROBLEMS ... I am going to do what I think is right and go from there.

"what is right" is keeping confidential info confidential


hmm, the new assistant posting drug & alcohol accusations regarding his players on a public message board ... I don't believe I've ever seen that before


ya may want to study up on the school's privacy policies, because the HC may have some explaining to do for publicly releasing medical/discipline file info thru you on his players

I know I said I wouldn't post anymore but I have to say Bee that you are an idiot. In none of my posts have I mentioned who I am, where I want to coach at nor the school I am interested in. I really don't see how anybody can identify who I am talking about since the HC never told me which players were dismissed for their problems.

Also, how can it be confidential when ESPN puts everything on their news reports? Pro and college players problems are on the news all the time.

I am glad you have a wealth of knowledge in the world of college coaching when you have PROBABLY never coached at that level - if you have then I apologize for assuming wrong.

If you and walawalla want to allow drinking then go ahead and do it. I don't care because that would be your team. This thread was about what to do on drinking on an official visit and I posted my views.

people skills and integrity are pretty important for those in coaching roles.

since you HAD clearly identified your potential employer I (tactfuly) noted in a recent PM my concern that you had compromised team/school privacy and deleted my previous "quote" reference to it, suggesting you do the same (page 8). it went unheeded

due to your employment offer & access to inside info w/HC it's likely that any who read your diatribe would conclude that ALL players released from that team have serious substance abuse issues.

I do have a problem with you laying it out as fact in public as I'm sure would the players, parents, and the school.

it's likely that some close to that program are now following your comments with interest
I gotta wonder how they'd come across to an AD preparing to interview ya, or to players and potential recruits


I will be pulling for the guys on that team hoping that things work out for them ...

they deserve some quality adults as mentors and role models



btw, in re-reading my posts, none indicate an endorsement of underage drinking
but do endorse the use of "horse sense", a seemingly rare commodity

Have been reading this thread with some interest. Coach2709 has rules that he would enforce concerning drinking alcohol during official visits and during the season.

From what I'm reading in these last couple of pages it is assumed that college players drink(legally and illegaly) so therefore the coach should just look the other way?

Should there be no rules regarding drinking? If there should be rules, should they be enforced? Do you have some rules that are enforced and some that aren't? Or do you just
make rules so that in case a lawsuit comes up after one of your underage players gets injured in a drunk driving accident that you, as a coach, are held harmless?

Please elaborate. I'm sure there are more than a few of us that are interested.

Look, we are not naive to the fact that college kids drink, that's not the question. They also do drugs, steal, cheat on tests, etc. Do we look the other way? Should the
South Carolina players that were caught stealing have been kicked off the team? Lots
of college kids steal. Doesn't make it right does it?

It's a tough call about alcohol when some players are over 21 and some under and drinking
is so prevalent at most college social functions. However, this thread started about official visits and I don't know of any recruits that are 21 years old. I would think that a coach would be very dilligent about who he chooses to escort his potential future
ballplayers on the visits.

quote:

I cant imagine there being a competitive D1 baseball team where nobody on the team used alcohol, tobacco, or even drugs.

If you want to run 9 choir boys out there you might go 0-56.

Walawala:........

quote:

You want to be a personable guy who can be a friend and a mentor, not a disciplinarian.

Hmmmm,...to me a friend and a mentor are people who look out for my best interest and support me.

They are also the ones who I expect to kick me in the butt if I'm making stupid choices and partaking in illegal activity.

Turning a blind eye doesnt show me committment or integrity.
Involvement does.

Associates are a dime a dozen.
A good coach and a best friend,.... priceless.

If Bee> is an idiot than I must be one too.

Schools have rules in place to protect the student. Do you know that if a player tests positive for drugs it does not have to be disclosed to the coach? And surprisingly enough, most schools have a first forgiveness policy and a second and some a third? I can tell you that because one of my son's friends tested positive (not at his school) and school policy is no dismissal on first offense. HC wasn't happy, but he was never asked to leave, he left on his own.

Bee's son and mine were from teams that went to Omaha last year, and I don't think coaches have rules regarding such. I also don't think the schools going this year do either. In fact, when you get to Omaha, the NCAA sits with each team to go over rules, and I don't think that legal age players are NOT allowed ot drink. Gambling on teams is discussed and the casino across the river and that is a big concern, don't show up in a casino if you are underage. Besides, most players who get there really don't need coaches to enforce any rules, they are much smarter than that, that is why they are there. and most likely their coach has treated them with respect and they give that back in return.

In fact if most coaches had those type of rules (you drink or smoke during season and you get kicked off the team)many teams would not be able to field a team for a game. Many college players are 21 or over, considered legal and adults, you cannot make them conform to what the law allows. You can make them understand consequences as to the big picture.

This thread was regarding drinking on official visits and since minors go on official visits, they should not be drinking. In fact, I remember my son getting a set of rules before each official visit stating that the recruit shall not partake in drinking alcohol. Do recruits still do it, you betcha they do.


I think Walawala has made some good points, by the way Walawala I am much older than you and I agree with msot everything you have said. Coach SHOULD should listen to what you have posted.

Coach,
I realize the point you are trying to make. But you need to chill out.
Most coaches are wise men, most have been to college themselves. The whole idea is not setting up rules that can't be enforced, but teaching about life's consequences, for example, if you drink and are under age you can get in big trouble, if you drink and drive you can go to jail. College coaches rules most often are pertinent to baseball, be on time for practice, do your workouts, be a good team member, keep curfew, etc.and pertinent to being able to stay eligible (go to class, etc). Hardly ever will a coach interfere with a players life off the field. If a player's off the field life is affecting his performance on the field that is a different situation. I know my son's HC expects that if anything goes down, he wants to hear it from the player first, not in the news, that's where he sets his consequences.
If a team is out of control, and not performing and the coach doesn't do anything about it, that means he should be dismissed, not the players.

I am not sure I would want to send my son off to a place where the institution itself has no policy. I am assuming there are small schools that do, but I am not sure I would even want to work at one of those myself. No rules for students, no rules for staff.

Most college coaches stay out of the players everyday lives and the places they go to. If a coach walks into a place where students are having pizza and beer, most likely he (coach) doesn't belong there in the first place. In Clemson students head downtown for a night out, you will NEVER find a coach there, spys maybe, but never the coach.
JMO

Lots of mixed signals here.
I like strict rules and if you are going to take scholarship money for a sport the rules should be clear and no tolerance.

I never said there should be no consequences. I just said that dismissal from the team is too harsh.

By the way great post Tiger Paw Mom. I think you expressed my feelings even better than I could.

And also shortstopmom, Friends don't kick friends to the curb when they make a bad descision. And drinking responsibly when of legal age is not a bad descision anyways.

very well said tpm, I agree

quote:

by bhdoll: rules should be clear and no tolerance.

well, that's where that "horse sense" comes in handy ...

"no tolerance" scenarios are basicly a lazy man's way of using a predetermined solution to solve a variety of issues without doing any real thinking -

ie: the solution must be harsh enough to cover the most severe violation, yet it must also be applied to an inadvertant or minimum violation -

that's why ya see pin-heads metting out the same punishment to the girl with advil as they do to the guy selling meth out'a his locker.

personaly, I have NO TOLERANCE for "no tolerance"

Bee>,
We don't always agree, but you are right, this is where "horse sense" comes in handy.

I don't know how it is on other teams, but at son's school I always got the feeling that the coach placed the younger players in the hands of the older guys to lead them in the right direction. They more or less policed themselves and if things got out of control, they did what they had to do among themselves.

You don't need strict rules if everyone is working with respect towards the same goal, success for the program.

quote:

I never said there should be no consequences. I just said that dismissal from the team is too harsh.

Walawala, if dismissal from the team is too harsh, and you agree that there should be consequences, what do you propose would be ideal consequences?

Because you are a D1 player, I think it would be beneficial to hear your suggestions.


And on a lighter note:

quote:

Friends don't kick friends to the curb when they make a bad descision.

True,...but I do expect my friends to gently escort ( or perhaps even carry ) my rump to the curb, ( preferably a curb in front of a Starbucks ), leave me a blanket, and visit me on holidays-HA!

SSMom,
Coaches are hired and paid to coach a team and to mentor their charges. They set limits within their program, regarding what they expect from the players they have given opportunities. That's a hard question to expect an answer.

Schools and their administration set rules and consequences in place when a student (any student) is in violation of those rules on or off campus.

Any parent sending their player off to college will be surprised to find out that coaches are generally not disciplinarians in these "illegal" activities. Their decision to drop a player cannot be to their sole discretion, I would imagine the AD would have more say in these matters. These matters would include, stealing, fighting, DUI's, and caught using illegal substances. No AD is going to let a caoch let a player go because the coach saw him drinking in a pizza hut or caught him using tobacco. I am speaking aoubt most school in general, not the situation Caoch is speaking about.

Again, it is highly unlikely a coach will set such rules for no drinking tolerance for his team when more than half are of legal age. Now if that legal age player is caught drinking downtown after midnight when the coaches rules are 10:30 curfew, there might be h*ll to pay in the morning for breaking curfew. And most "legal" or "non legal" players who are responsible know not to get wasted the night before a game.

Thanks TPM.

While I am aware of what you have said, and have experienced most of it first hand, having been a college athlete myself and then working for the Universities AD and a head Coach, ( albeit many years ago, and I'll kindly not divulge just exactly how many years ago-ha!), I am very interested in what a D1 athlete's ( who does not agree with a no tolerance drinking policy, or the consequence of dismissal from the team ) perspective is, about ideal consequences.

Just curious to know.
I am keeping an optimistic and open mind.
If one doesnt like or agree with a policy, then perhaps that same individual might have suggestions as to what changes to make. Sometimes good things come from such discussions and minds can be persuaded to change.


I find it a positive to have a current athlete in this discussion and
I value thier opinion.

This thread was started two years ago. Its apparant there are many ideas and opinions at hand.

quote:

by 2709: I DO HAVE A MASTERS DEGREE IN COUNSELING SO I WOULD HAVE A GOOD IDEA IF SOMEONE HAS A PROBLEM ... how can it (allegations) be confidential when ESPN puts everything on their news reports?

umm .. the news media are NOT covered by the

"Federal Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act" (FERPA)
colleges, universities & their employees ARE

just wild assumption on my part, but I figure a masters degree would'a covered that



to whom do the schools that the (released) guys are transferring to speak with to find out if the are getting an alleged druggie or one of the clean ones?

who do the clean ones see to get their reputation back? ... Johnny Cochran? .. oops, too late



.

quote:

by moc1: Should the USC players that were caught stealing have been kicked off the team?

interesting ya brought that up ...

should the USC players that were caught GOLFING have been kicked off the team?


let's see ...

burglarizing dorms & coach's office? .. .. golfing?


yup, just notch another one up for the ol' "zero tolerance" crowd





that "horse sense" is rarer by the day

There appears to be very different opinions on regarding the topic--drinking on official visits--but it seems to have slipped into drinking during the season.

I have been reading this thread with interest since the topic first came up. Two years ago, before we were members of this message board, one of my sons went to visit two colleges within close proximity to each other and spent a night with each of them. Prior to his visit, he was very interested in one of them. He scratched it off of his list because he was taken to a party and he was incredibly turned off by all of the drinking there. He did not have the same experience at the other school. He did not go to either one, although the school where he was not invited to the party remained in the running until the very end of his decision process.

Just curious. Are there differences with "rules and regulations" between large major public universities and small private colleges? My children have gone to small private grade schools and also public schools, and I have noticed differences within the administration at each one and what they are allowed to do and how they can handle similar situations.

I graduated from a small private college. My husband graduated from a large public university. We had different experiences and different expectations. I wonder if that is what is causing the friction in this thread--the differences between small private colleges and large public universities....

FYI, my son had two official visits. He went to parties at both schools, his comments were there was less trouble to get into where he decided to go!

Either way, both were large D1 programs with huge football programs at public universities. Sometimes these type of schools have lower tolerance, sometimes they have higher tolerance. I have friends that have sons at smaller programs, there seems to be just as much, if not even more that goes on there than in sons program.
This is where good recruiting comes in. Coaches have responsibilites to find the best players, and that sometimes involves those that are mature enough to handle their surroundings with little or no temptations. Most coaches want thier recruits to see all of the aspects of college life, not just the field. Sometimes a red flag will go up if the recruit does not wish to participate and sometimes a red flag will go up if he particiaptes too much. Lots of input comes from players regarding recruits.

My opinion is that regardless of the school size, whether provate or public, a coaches responsibilities are to teach, mentor and guide their players with an open mind about college life and not rule with an iron fist regarding outside activities.

Playbaseball, I think everybody agree's that drinking anytime your underage, and the fact your on a recruiting visit.
It's a stupid idea.
From both side's, the recruited and the recruiter.

And if there's rules then you should beheld accountible for your action's.
It's the severity of the punishment that's in question.
I don't believe in a total complete banishment, without a chance to redeem one's trust.

quote:

Originally posted by theEH:
It's the severity of the punishment that's in question.

I'm wondering if there is a difference in policy with regards to punishment between a private and public school.

I have no doubt that drinking underage is a stupid idea, I have no doubt that even drinking when you are OF the age on a recruiting visit is a stupid idea, just like I think that drinking during a job interview at lunch at a restaurant is a stupid idea, even a glass of wine, unless you are interviewing for a job at a winery.

I'm also not commenting on "activities" that may go on in any program. I'm just wondering because of all of the friction that is occurring here, if the difference in rules and tolerance is because of the differences in private vs. public schools, and the rules that a private school must follow vs. a public school due to government funding.

For example, the entire town in which I live is a National Historic Landmark. When my village wants to improve its roads in order to maintain the integrity of the historic attributes of the village, if the village pays for the repairs itself, it doesn't have to follow any federal guidelines. But. If my village asks for and expects to receive federal money to repair the roads, then it needs to follow the federal mandated rules for road improvement.

Relating that scenario to this issue: If a private religious school does not receive any federal funding, can they set whatever rules they want? Once upon a time, they could. They were not bound by the types of rules that public schools were. I'm not sure if it is true today. That is what I am wondering/speculating.

quote:

by playbb: Two years ago .. one of my sons went to visit two colleges .. and spent a night with each .. He scratched (one) off of his list because he was taken to a party and he was incredibly turned off. He did not have the same experience at the other school

it'd be interesting for you to follow up with observations on your son's progress/expectations now 2 yrs down the road. would he have picked school #1 if they had taken him to starbucks that night (even tho parties were still going on, he just wasn't there)

btw, there's no friction here

"the differences between small private colleges and large public universities...."

I do kinda have an observation (caution un-scientific) -
my son attended an urban university in Atlanta & during offseason there was usually beer in the fridge of dorm (presumably for cooking brats ). weekend parties at bbhouse were heavy on ping-pong, music, & bbq w/beer & sweet-tea avail

a few local NAIA's have much stricter on campus dorm rules - however their weekend off campus bashes seem much more extreme than the laid back stuff I saw at "Big U".

This has been a very, very interesting topic. I've enjoyed reading everyone's input on this.

I'll go ahead and offer an example that will more then likely throw yet another wrench into the system.

I've been talking to some local friends about this subject lately to hear what they felt about it, since the drinking age is different up here in Canada anywheres from age 18-19 pending upon what Province one lives in.

Almost every guy I talked to who went down for a visit were of age up here had a drink because they thought nothing of it. The difference in the legal age to consume alcohol never crossed their mind. They forgot about it until they got down there to attend school in the fall and got turned away when they went to buy drinks at a restaurant, variety store, grocery store etc.

Now when reading how some people would kick players off the team or wouldn't consider the player as a recruit anymore for something like this... and I know rules are rules. But when I first went to school, no one advised me of the legal drinking age. No Teammates, Coaching Staff or University Staff. I never heard anything about the age until I heard some fellow freshmen saying they were looking for someone 21 to buy them a case a beer. So I guess my question is What about those who are use to being able to drink at that age? (I know this situation is few and far between) But you would still kick someone off a team or drop them from your radar because they simply didn't know or weren't told of the drinking age?

quote:

Originally posted by play baseball:

quote:

Originally posted by theEH:
It's the severity of the punishment that's in question.

I'm wondering if there is a difference in policy with regards to punishment between a private and public school.

I prefer the word consequences.

PBB,
My son attends a public university, but I would guess if you asked a parent from a large to mid D1 private school (Tulane, Vandy, Standford, Duke) you would get the same response regarding philosophies.

IMO, small private catholic school college students are no different than those attending public schools. They should be treated with respect as maturing adults and know the consequences. Someone told me once that the same thing goes down at her son's private school as other schools. In fact, I would tend to guess that those schools have a tendency to look more the other way.

Freshman dorm rooms often are equipped with "beerators". No one comes to check up on them but consequences if caught with it outside of their room.

I am not saying I agree with the way alcohol flows freely on college campus. I don't see any difference from now than when I went to college 32 years ago. In fact, I was a college student of the early 70's during Vietnam, make love not war, so let's not go there with that one!

I object to ANY college coach thinking he is so above it all that a zero tolerance policy must be put in place. You have to place reasonable rules in place and if they get out of hand, then deal with it, but making rules for young adults and legal adults that are unachievable is silly.

The original purpose of this thread is very important.

When our 07 son had an official visit last fall, we pulled this thread up and had him read it. It opened up our eyes and his and gave us an opportunity to talk to our son about what to maybe expect and to talk about how he would handle things. Every family has different parenting styles and thoughts about this issue.

The direction this thread has taken off in makes for some interesting discussion and reading!

quote:

Originally posted by curveball07:
The original purpose of this thread is very important.

It's golden!

quote:

by cb: The original purpose of this thread is very important

agree, and the off track discussion pretty entertaining too.

tho, after 10 pages of basicly agreeing that alcohol on visit a no-no

please speak up if anyone has a way to get an 18 yr old kid:

being recruited by his "dream institution",
welcomed on the scoreboard,
name on his locker & uni,
hanging w/older guys,
feeling immortal,
feeling his hormones,
already knowing more than BOTH parents ever could,
AND .. getting a taste of real freedom & independence ...

to think the way parents do??

imo,
the only real shot you have then is how ya raised him those past 17 yrs
& much of that is luck

curveball07 - you make good points.

This has been an outstanding thread regardless of it taking a detour now and then. I hope/pray kids who go on recruiting visits are not put in the awkward position of being exposed to alcohol. Just maybe one player or coach who has read this thread will try to ensure it never happens on a recruting visit at their respective campus.

After kids matriculate, well... there will be temptations. We all were kids and that is part of going to college. Before mine left to school, I begged and pleaded with him on two things. I said please come home at night and do your homework - get it out of the way. When the homework is done, then it is time to enjoy campus life.

I said if alcohol was ever involved, to please never, never, never get behind the wheel of a car or get in the car with someone who has been drinking. I said I didn't care if he called me at 3:00 in the morning that I would pay for a cab or what not. I believe he has honored my wishes in those two areas and I pray that he and all of your kids get through college safely

quote:

Originally posted by ClevelandDad:
I said if alcohol was ever involved, to please never, never, never get behind the wheel of a car or get in the car with someone who has been drinking. I said I didn't care if he called me at 3:00 in the morning that I would pay for a cab or what not. I believe he has honored my wishes in those two areas and I pray that he and all of your kids get through college safely.

I think we all have given this speech!
And prayed the same prayer!!!!

Bee-Didn't realize golfing was illegal in SC. Or is it underage drinking is now legal?

BTW did you ever say where you draw the line? Rules, no rules, enlighten us with your
rare "horse sense".

Me, zero tolerance?? Where did that come from?

quote:

by moc1: Bee-Didn't realize golfing was illegal in SC... Rules, no rules, enlighten us with your rare "horse sense"

USC "golf gate" ...
ncaa suspended 4 players for golfing during the summer at a discounted rate - - -
a thorough audit revealed that the majority (51%) owner of the golf course was a USC grad,
hence benefits accepted from a booster - true - ask Bob Hempy

horse sense:
I'd have had them mow fairways for a week to even out any benefit, then as employees they could'a golfed & ate FREE forever



my rules?
there were "house rules" & "horse sense" up to 17 yrs ...

after that only 2 -

show up/call me on father's day
show up/call Mom on mother's day

something worked, he lived in mid-town Atlanta for 5 yrs & his only brush with the the authorities was not having proof of insurance at a safty check & a few parking tickets

BEE, I have no doubt you were a good Dad-and you'll probably get one(or more) calls this Sunday.

But.....we're not talking parenthood. Coaches don't always get players that were raised with the values that you instilled
in your son. Coaching would be easy(easier) if that were the case. Since you questioned one poster's thoughts-and I suppose
his intentions-about what he would implement as far as consequences for HIS team, why not tell us what your rule(s) would be concerning alcoholic beverage consumption. Seriously, it's very easy to come on this site and disagree with someone's
thoughts and ideas but I think it would be very helpful to then say what you would do if YOU were the coach. Put yourself
into the position of being in charge of 25-35 17-23 year old young men-all from different backgrounds and upbringing and
let us know what you would say at the first team meating about alcohol and how you would enforce the breaking of the rules.

It's possible Coach 2709 might change his views a little if he can see some alternative measures to be taken. I tend to feel that he may be a little too strict in his consequences for a first offense but I also know that these guys are away
from home for the first time and are ready to test the limits on everything. Hey, if this were a perfect world we wouldn't
need ANY laws would we? But since it's not, laws/rules/limits have to be set so that everyone can get along and respect
each others spaces. You had "house rules" and used "horse sense" raising your son, I commend you for that, what about the
other players on the team that weren't raised that way?

quote:

by moc: BEE, I have no doubt you were a good Dad

Mom gets the credit

quote:

by moc1: Put yourself into the position of being in charge of 25-35 17-23 year old young men-all from different backgrounds and upbringing and
let us know what you would say at the first team meating about alcohol and how you would enforce the breaking of the rules.

moc, pehaps someone who needs 24-7 supervision shouldn't be in college
and quite possibly our experiences and/or expectations are very different.


I'll be happy to describe how a TOP program works

my son and his 17-23 yr old team-mates didn't have anyone in charge of them ...
as players they had baseball & conditioning coaches,
as students they had profs/instructors and the institution.
they understood the expectations and structure of each

their team meeting -
regarding off field conduct they were instructed to:
"familiarize yourself with GT's Student Conduct Code,
you get NO SPECIAL TREATMENT as an athlete" ..
the rest was baseball & team structure stuff.

it seems like they covered just about everything they felt was important

a disciplined team is NOT the result of having a fat book of team rules!

off field issues I was aware of were dealt with by university policies, including a Christmas break underage drinking incident that got BA coverage.

*note -
of course, there could'a/would'a been many incidents I wasn't aware of,
as privacy laws & policies KEPT THEM CONFIDENTIAL!!!!



2709 can do things anyway he wants to, I expressed my opinion and do not endorse him or his methods.

available to all w/a click of the mouse HE identifies his college as Pikeville College in a "recent post" - - I take issue w/him publicly posting that all players leaving his college are being dismissed for alcohol & drug issues, which you seem ok with.

do coaches get punished for breaking rules?

quote:

by moc1: if this were a perfect world we wouldn't need ANY laws would we? But since it's not, laws/rules/limits have to be set

you're just not catching on to the obvious - - we HAVE laws, limits HAVE been set ..



from your view ...


the Parent's rule re underage drinking is not enough for ya ..

ok, so add the State Law re underage drinking -- still not enough ..

ok, so add the City's law re underage drinking -- still not enough ..

ok, so add the University's rule re underage drinking -- STILL not enough ..

then ... add the Coach's rule - now all is well


breaking 4 laws/rules no deterent ... BUT breaking 5 WILL DETER

with all due respect, that's silly

quote:

Originally posted by Bee>:

quote:

by moc: BEE, I have no doubt you were a good Dad

Mom gets the credit

quote:

by moc1: Put yourself into the position of being in charge of 25-35 17-23 year old young men-all from different backgrounds and upbringing and
let us know what you would say at the first team meating about alcohol and how you would enforce the breaking of the rules.

moc, pehaps someone who needs 24-7 supervision shouldn't be in college
and quite possibly our experiences and/or expectations are very different.


I'll be happy to describe how a TOP program works

my son and his 17-23 yr old team-mates didn't have anyone in charge of them ...
as players they had baseball & conditioning coaches,
as students they had profs/instructors and the institution.
they understood the expectations and structure of each

their team meeting -
regarding off field conduct they were instructed to:
"familiarize yourself with GT's Student Conduct Code,
you get NO special treatment as an athlete" ..
the rest was baseball & team structure stuff.

it seems like they covered just about everything they felt was important

a disciplined team is NOT the result of having a fat book of team rules!

off field issues I was aware of were dealt with by university policies, including a Christmas break underage drinking incident that got BA coverage.

*note -
of course, there could'a/would'a been many incidents I wasn't aware of,
as privacy laws & policies KEPT THEM CONFIDENTIAL!!!!



2709 can do things anyway he wants to, I expressed my opinion and do not endorse him or his methods.

available to all w/a click of the mouse HE identifies his college as Pikeville College in a "recent post" - - I take issue w/him publicly posting that all players leaving his college are being dismissed for alcohol & drug issues, which you seem ok with.

do coaches get punished for breaking rules?

I wasn't in the room when son's coach holds his 2-3 hour first meeting, but I would suspect the same as above.

I also take issue with this Coach publicly announcing what he did about a school he may be employed at.

I started to respond to your last two posts but realized that you would probably make some more illogical assumptions about me and my views. Suffice it to say that my view is that a coach who allows 17-23 year old young men to
make their own rules and regulations will not be in the coaching ranks very long.

As far as my view on disclosing info on players being dismissed from college-silence doesn't mean agreement. Another
wrong assumption on your part.

my sincere appologies for any wrong assumptions, I'll take you at your word that sometimes what you write isn't what you mean ..

do agree tho - - that silence can be hard to figure unless ... it's from Mrs Bee>

quote:

by moc1: my view is that a coach who allows .. young men to make their own rules and regulations will not be in the coaching ranks very long

I never said that, tho do respect your view ... but again, ya got it backazzwords --

in the real world ...

"a young man who needs 24-7 off-field babysitting won't be playing for any Top program/Top coach too long" - that's how it is!

and ...
parents expecting "off-campus lifestyle management" by a college coaching staff are out of touch





good luck tho & I enjoy the discussion for the benefit of younger players & parents


ps - just wondering were ya also "silent" about Nifong (now disbarred/disgraced) in the Duke fiasco too???

BEE, I find it amusing that you've gone back and changed virtually every one of your posts from what your originally stated. For anyone reading these from the beginning it may be difficult to follow when the original posts have been edited.

You have your opinion-note, opinion, I have mine. I have not edited any of my posts and I think it's fairly clear where I stand. I MEAN what I posted and to make assumptions as you often do without any basis is kind of "silly"-the word you chose to edit TO from "ridiculous" in your previous post.

You and others feel coaches should not give college players rules and regulations, fine-I disagree. I've known and played for coaches(some with National Championships) and they ALL had rules concerning alcoholic consumption. The way that they meted out discipline
for the breaking of those rules varied-but it was certainly clear to the players what
the discipline would be.

To me it's rather naive on your part to believe that once a player leaves home he is "ready" to take on the world and needs no limits imposed on him by a college coach of all people-even though that coach may be "paying" for part of his education and has their
undivided attention for quite a bit of their total college time.

Hopefully, after 4 to 5 years of college life a young man will have matured to the point
that he no longer needs to have any limits imposed upon him and will be able to make intelligent choices, but to think an 18 year old should be able to handle being alone for the first time and not succumb to peer pressure is "silly". Most of the coaches that I know understand this and have rules in place. It may be different for Georgia Tech, good for them, but please don't ASSUME that's the case in all colleges-it isn't.

Good luck to you as well and it would be helpful if you would note when you go back and edit your posts.

TOO LATE, I see you've changed your last post by adding the thing about Nifong-Let me know when you're finished