Drop/Drive/Leap

quote:

Originally posted by cap_n:
TPG- Why do you use this clip of Maddux?

Hopefully it's the least controversial.

It was bbscout's favorite, and I doubt if too many people will question his judgement.

TPG-

I know it's bbscout's favorite clip. I think this is the clip he used to get it through my thick skull what his definition was of what a running start meant.

The question still remains, why do you refer to this clip?

quote:

Originally posted by cap_n:
The question still remains, why do you refer to this clip?

I love Maddux's arm action, in particular how low his PAS elbow is at the high-cocked position.

quote:

I love Maddux's arm action, in particular how low his PAS elbow is at the high-cocked position.

................ as illustrated in this clip?

quote:

Originally posted by cap_n:

quote:

I love Maddux's arm action, in particular how low his PAS elbow is at the high-cocked position.

................ as illustrated in this clip?

Yes.

Do you disagree that his PAS elbow is low?

quote:

Do you disagree that his PAS elbow is low?

..........no......I don't disagree that his elbow is low. It IS low.

Have you ever wondered why it's so low?

quote:

Originally posted by cap_n:

quote:

Do you disagree that his PAS elbow is low?

..........no......I don't disagree that his elbow is low. It IS low.

Have you ever wondered why it's so low?

I have my thoughts, one of which is that he leads with his hand rather than with his elbow out of the "plunged" position (with the ball behind his PAS butt cheek).

What are yours?

quote:

I have my thoughts, one of which is that he leads with his hand rather than with his elbow

Maddux does "throw with the elbow", pulling the elbow behind to start his load... but only after he's trapped his arm behind his body. Trapping makes it difficult to raise the elbow/arm any higher.




The low-to-the-ground going forward postures on almost flat ground, and initial arm action and arm timing, pretty much dictate a liner upper body throw resulting in stride leg linear knee drift.

Knee drift by Maddux, catapult by Prior, but both very linear upper bodies.




IMO that Maddux's low elbow in this clip is no more than a posture to prevent damaging the shoulder from the trapping arm action. This is one reason "arm action is king."


Selections modified from bbscout & PN. clips.

The gold VW bug in the background was my dads ride, and our families grocery getter in the mid 80's. The giant black case behind Maddux is the case for his then 800 dollar vhs recorder.... Hence the quality resolution I believe the camera cost more than the bug.

quote:

Originally posted by cap_n:
Maddux does "throw with the elbow", pulling the elbow behind to start his load... but only after he's trapped his arm behind his body. Trapping makes it difficult to raise the elbow/arm any higher.

Maybe it's difficult, but it's certainly not impossible.

BJ Ryan does something similar and then raises his arm into the Inverted L position, with his PAS elbow high and his PAS forearm hanging down vertically beneath it.

quote:

Originally posted by cap_n:
Knee drift by Maddux, catapult by Prior, but both very linear upper bodies.

I don't see how you could describe the above as linear.

Maybe it looks linear from the side, but it's not linear when viewed from above or behind.

quote:

Originally posted by cap_n:
Selections modified from bbscout & PN. clips.

For the record, I am the original source of the Mark Prior clip.

I sure hope Paul isn't taking credit for it.

TPG,

I see where you have "gone pro" charging for your analysis' amazing... since one of your guiding principles is the "low elbow" analyze the clips in your last post and explain why Prior's elbow is considerably lower than Maddux' I suppose Prior's not effected by centrifugal force "like all pitchers" as you thought earlier in this thread.

quote:

Originally posted by Yankeelvr:
since one of your guiding principles is the "low elbow" analyze the clips in your last post and explain why Prior's elbow is considerably lower than Maddux' I suppose Prior's not effected by centrifugal force "like all pitchers" as you thought earlier in this thread.

You can't get around the laws of physics. In this case, the 90 degree rule states that the optimum path is perpendicular to the axis of rotation, which in this case is the upper spine.

Prior's elbow is lower than Maddux's because Prior's shoulders aren't tilted as much as Maddux's.

As I have said multiple times before, shoulder tilt, rather than elbow angle, drives arm slot.

From the clips I posted, I hope everyone can see there is a major linear motion to release the ball. Prior catapult, minute shoulder complex rotation to ball release. Maddux very low to the ground which makes hip rotation extremely difficult, therefore producing his momentum forward linear drift to ball release.

As well, the clip of BJ Ryan does not demonstrate the same arm action as the young Maddux. BJ Ryan does not trap the throwing arm and hand behind his body. His arm action is long, it's low and it's out to his side.....but he never pulls/wraps it farther behind his back. That's the reason he's able to lift his elbow and lead the throw with his elbow. His arm action and arm posture allows for a high elbow pull....young Maddux's arm action impedes a high elbow lift.


If the clip is yours, when did you make it available for everyone to use, including PN?

quote:

Originally posted by cap_n:
If the clip is yours, when did you make it available for everyone to use, including PN?

I posted it in my analysis of Mark Prior's pitching mechanics back in the fall...

- Mark Prior's Pitching Mechanics

I got it from a client who pitches against Prior in college.

It's not a big deal, I just don't think it's right if Paul's taking credit for finding it.

Chris
I saw that video a couple of years before I even saw you posting on Steven Ellis' boards and I believe it was on one of PN's sites.

You're too eager to prove yourself and have subsequently jumped to conclusions. If it's no big deal, then why try to make a point?


Let's see...back in the fall....fall of 2007?
I have that clip that I downloaded from PN. Let's see....back in the spring....... stamp dated spring of 2001. And I'm positive it was in use by PN well before that. I chose to give credit to my sources, bbscout & PN.......no one is required to do that, but I did. And while we're on the subject, you posted a clip of Colon stepping into landing, and then reversing back up the mound. Where did you get that from, or was it yours too?

On a different subject, I think its very inappropriate for you to be linking your paid professional analysis skills web site here on this web site....you're pushing an agenda. You have proven to me you do not posses the necessary skills to debate efficient power throwing mechanics. Your analysis skills are better suited for your web site.

Because of your continued evasive responses, I am recommending to all moderators and members here to stop leading you on, and to do what needs to be done in order to preserve the integrity of this outstanding web site.
I will be proactive in the deletion process avoiding any more useless, time waisting debates.

quote:

Originally posted by dm59:
I saw that video a couple of years before I even saw you posting on Steven Ellis' boards and I believe it was on one of PN's sites.

Then I was wrong and I apologize.

I didn't realize anyone else had gotten a copy of that video.

quote:

Originally posted by cap_n:
Because of your continued evasive responses, I am recommending to all moderators and members here to stop leading you on, and to do what needs to be done in order to preserve the integrity of this outstanding web site. I will be proactive in the deletion process avoiding any more useless, time waisting debates.

Please explain how I'm being evasive so I can stop doing it.