With 2 men out, when must the batter be tagged/forced out on a dropped 3d strike? Never? Only with 1st base open? Always?
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ALWAYS when there are 2 out; never when there is less than 2 outs with 1st base occupied.
Thanks Flin, we have the same opinion. But that's been a topic of discussion lately with a couple of guys insisting the 3d strike rule is not in effect with 2 out. Hope it happens to the other team in tonights game just to see the call.
Ball bounces on third strike. When is the batter out? When he walks back to the dugout or makes no attempt to go to first base.
When he ENTERS the dugout.
Pirate Fan is correct. The BR may advance to first anytime before entering the dugout or deadball territory. That means that if he is headed to the third base dugout he may cut straight across the infield to first.
MST: You are right, but there is also one more way that the batter is out. That is if all the defensive players have left live ground. At that time he can no longer run to first base. At least that is the high school rules.
I have a question I hope someone can answer.
My question is this:
There is no outs and no one on base. Its a 2-2 pitch the batter swings at a ball in the dirt the ball bounce and the catcher clearly catches after it hits the ground and the batter swings and misses. Does the catcher have to tag or throw down to first to record the out.
I guess to simplify - technically its not a droped 3rd strike but the ball hit the ground as the batter swings.
What is rule?
My question is this:
There is no outs and no one on base. Its a 2-2 pitch the batter swings at a ball in the dirt the ball bounce and the catcher clearly catches after it hits the ground and the batter swings and misses. Does the catcher have to tag or throw down to first to record the out.
I guess to simplify - technically its not a droped 3rd strike but the ball hit the ground as the batter swings.
What is rule?
Hosp: If the catcher does not clearly catch the ball, dropped or not reaching him and the batter swings he must either tag the batter-runner or record the out at first base.
hopo22,
Once the ball hits the dirt the need to tag the batter or throw to first is in effect on a swinging third strike in the example you gave with no outs and no one on. This is so even though the catcher may clearly catch the ball on a hop off the ground. The base ump and plate ump have prearranged signals between each other so the base ump can tell the plate ump the ball hit the ground first.
Once the ball hits the dirt the need to tag the batter or throw to first is in effect on a swinging third strike in the example you gave with no outs and no one on. This is so even though the catcher may clearly catch the ball on a hop off the ground. The base ump and plate ump have prearranged signals between each other so the base ump can tell the plate ump the ball hit the ground first.
related question:
How is it scored if the player reaches first after a dropped third strike? Is it E2?
How is it scored if the player reaches first after a dropped third strike? Is it E2?
"How is it scored if the player reaches first after a dropped third strike? Is it E2?"
Usually not, but it depends on exactly what happened.
Example 1: the batter swings and misses at a pitch for strike three, but the catcher is unable to hold on to the pitch, allowing it to hit the ground and the ball then rolls away from the catcher. The batter is able to make it to first base safely before the catcher can retrieve the ball and throw it to first. In this case, what you have is a passed ball, NOT an error. It is scored as a strikeout, with the batter reaching first on the PB.
Here are the OBR references:
OBR 10.14 No error shall be charged in the following cases: (f) Because the pitcher and catcher handle the ball much more than other fielders, certain misplays on pitched balls are defined in Rule 10.15 as wild pitches and passed balls. No error shall be charged when a wild pitch or passed ball is scored...(1)(ii) When the third strike is a passed ball, permitting the batter to reach first base, score a strikeout and a passed ball.
10.15 (b) A catcher shall be charged with a passed ball when he fails to hold or to control a legally pitched ball which should have been held or controlled with ordinary effort, thereby permitting a runner or runners to advance.
Example 3: just like in the first example, the batter swings and misses at a pitch that the catcher is unable to hold on to, allowing it to hit the ground. However, this time the catcher pounces on the ball quickly, and throws to first in time to retire the batter. But the catcher's throw is high, and sails past the first baseman into right field, allowing the batter to touch first base safely. In this case, we DO have an E2, not a passed ball. The batter did not reach first base because of a passed ball, but rather because of an errant throw.
Example 3: the same thing happens as in Example 2, but this time the catcher's throw to first base is a good one. But now the first baseman drops the ball, allowing the batter to touch first base safely. This is scored as a strikeout, with the batter reaching first base via an E3 (the catcher would also receive an assist on the play, but that is another topic!).
(I have edited this post slightly to clarify that the uncaught pitch was a third strike, and to add that the catcher would receive an assist in Example 3)
Usually not, but it depends on exactly what happened.
Example 1: the batter swings and misses at a pitch for strike three, but the catcher is unable to hold on to the pitch, allowing it to hit the ground and the ball then rolls away from the catcher. The batter is able to make it to first base safely before the catcher can retrieve the ball and throw it to first. In this case, what you have is a passed ball, NOT an error. It is scored as a strikeout, with the batter reaching first on the PB.
Here are the OBR references:
OBR 10.14 No error shall be charged in the following cases: (f) Because the pitcher and catcher handle the ball much more than other fielders, certain misplays on pitched balls are defined in Rule 10.15 as wild pitches and passed balls. No error shall be charged when a wild pitch or passed ball is scored...(1)(ii) When the third strike is a passed ball, permitting the batter to reach first base, score a strikeout and a passed ball.
10.15 (b) A catcher shall be charged with a passed ball when he fails to hold or to control a legally pitched ball which should have been held or controlled with ordinary effort, thereby permitting a runner or runners to advance.
Example 3: just like in the first example, the batter swings and misses at a pitch that the catcher is unable to hold on to, allowing it to hit the ground. However, this time the catcher pounces on the ball quickly, and throws to first in time to retire the batter. But the catcher's throw is high, and sails past the first baseman into right field, allowing the batter to touch first base safely. In this case, we DO have an E2, not a passed ball. The batter did not reach first base because of a passed ball, but rather because of an errant throw.
Example 3: the same thing happens as in Example 2, but this time the catcher's throw to first base is a good one. But now the first baseman drops the ball, allowing the batter to touch first base safely. This is scored as a strikeout, with the batter reaching first base via an E3 (the catcher would also receive an assist on the play, but that is another topic!).
(I have edited this post slightly to clarify that the uncaught pitch was a third strike, and to add that the catcher would receive an assist in Example 3)
[QUOTE]Originally posted by JWC32:
"How is it scored if the player reaches first after a dropped third strike? Is it E2?"
Usually not, but it depends on exactly what happened.
So if it is scored a wild pitch or passed ball on a 3rd strike and a runner on 3rd scores is it a earned run?
"How is it scored if the player reaches first after a dropped third strike? Is it E2?"
Usually not, but it depends on exactly what happened.
So if it is scored a wild pitch or passed ball on a 3rd strike and a runner on 3rd scores is it a earned run?
Can't be an earned run if the catcher fields the ball clean the batter is out, do you give earned runs when the runner on third scores on a wild pitch or pass ball w/o the K? I don't. If it is I would like to know where in the rules that is.
When discussing scoring decisions about specific situations, we are making some assumptions about how each of the runners got to where they were on the bases, and how the inning ends. It always helps to clarify a few things, so here is an example...
There are two out, nobody on, and then three straight singles occur, loading the bases. The next batter strikes out, but the third strike is not caught, allowing the batter to reach first base safely, and allowing each of the other runners to advance one base, scoring one run. The next hitter flies out to end the inning.
Thus, the only reason that a run scored was the uncaught third strike.
If the scorer rules it was a passed ball, then the run is unearned (passed ball = catcher's fault).
If the scorer rules it was a wild pitch, then the run is earned (wild pitch = pitcher's fault).
Er, HotCornerDad, if the run scores solely because of a wild pitch (even without the strikeout), it IS an earned run.
There are two out, nobody on, and then three straight singles occur, loading the bases. The next batter strikes out, but the third strike is not caught, allowing the batter to reach first base safely, and allowing each of the other runners to advance one base, scoring one run. The next hitter flies out to end the inning.
Thus, the only reason that a run scored was the uncaught third strike.
If the scorer rules it was a passed ball, then the run is unearned (passed ball = catcher's fault).
If the scorer rules it was a wild pitch, then the run is earned (wild pitch = pitcher's fault).
Er, HotCornerDad, if the run scores solely because of a wild pitch (even without the strikeout), it IS an earned run.
Ok, Earned Runs are charged to a pitch to I can see the logic in this ruling. Thank you.