old_school, I don’t pretend to know what the future holds, but the proverbial “ship” you mention doesn’t sail in only one direction. It’s now going backwards in TX and FL, in neutral in NC, the U of Houston has halted all athletics activities, the Phillies shut down their spring training facility in Dunedin, (do I need to go on?...)
@Chico Escuela posted:old_school, I don’t pretend to know what the future holds, but the proverbial “ship” you mention doesn’t sail in only one direction. It’s now going backwards in TX and FL, in neutral in NC, the U of Houston has halted all athletics activities, the Phillies shut down their spring training facility in Dunedin, (do I need to go on?...)
No, you do not need to go on and on...... You might as well change your screen name to Chicovid19 Escuela as it is.
@Chico Escuela posted:One of the things I most like about this site is that the discussions may involve strong disagreements strongly expressed, but they are almost always civil. Then there are your posts...
Gee, why might I be thinking a lot about a global pandemic that has upended all of our lives, and about the fact my only two children are both planning to be in college this fall? Truly a deep mystery. Also strange that others seem interested in these questions, too.
You asked if you should go on and on. So I answered.
I've deleted my prior two comments. I don't want to get into the back-and-forth. Adbono, I apologize for my tone. I also think your earlier post was snarky and didn't add to the discussion here.
And I'm out.
@Chico Escuela posted:Understood. You were just contributing to the conversation with your usual insight and wit.
Yes, I try to confine my posts to subjects that I know something about.
@Chico Escuela posted:I've deleted my prior two comments. I don't want to get into the back-and-forth. Adbono, I apologize for my tone. I also think your earlier post was snarky and didn't add to the discussion here.
And I'm out.
No worries
@RJM posted:Does Southern New Hampshire University have online baseball too? There probably wasn’t a college more prepared for shifting to remote learning. They have 3,000 on campus and 80,000 online students. Maybe the baseball team could play Strat-O-Matic online.
Hmmm. Now I have to research to see if I have any eligibility left.
@Iowamom23 posted:So what's frightening is this — when bars in Iowa opened my daughter's friends decided to go out drinking. She is living at home and very adament about her social distancing and declined. Her roommate at school told her later that a group of about 10 went out. A week later about seven had tested positive. Come to find out the girl who organized the outing had tested positive and knew it when she got the group together.
How do you fix stupid????? And just rude?
🤬
@Chico Escuela posted:What do the young and (almost) invincible owe to others? Seems to me there is some ideal point (somewhere...) between living one's life as if your choices have no consequences for others and staying in your parents' basement for up to 2 years+. Students on campus will interact with staff and faculty who are older. Students will leave campus at times (if nothing else, to go home to parents who are presumably at least middle-aged). These actions will affect others. I don't know what the right balance is...
I do believe very strongly that the lengthy plans schools are issuing are mostly wishful thinking. (Actually, I'd use a word less polite than "wishful thinking," but let's go with that term.) I teach at a state U and am very familiar with my school's plans and those of a few other schools. Most faculty I know at whatever institution--people who deal with college kids regularly--think that once students get to campus, they will do essentially whatever they want. But the recent experience of FL, TX, and other states suggests this is also going to be true if those same kids stay home.
I also think that colleges will almost inevitably see some kids (and maybe employees) hospitalized, a few schools will see some deaths. Parents (and possibly students) probably won't react well to that, and a lot of finger-pointing and second-guessing will ensue. Some universities will have to seriously consider sending students home again. (Should they? I have almost given up having an opinion...)
So maybe the plans are put in place to protect the financial interest of the university, more so than to “protect” students from disease
Regarding Fauci, I wouldn't be upset if we never heard from him again. He has contradicted himself and has been putting advice out only to say the opposite a week later.
I'm really surprised at the amount of elderly I see out and about and travelling by air. I agree the younger population needs to do more, but the old folks should bare some of the blame here too. We can't keep putting out all these restrictions on people to protect the elderly when they aren't doing all they can to protect themselves.
@TerribleBPthrower posted:Regarding Fauci, I wouldn't be upset if we never heard from him again. He has contradicted himself and has been putting advice out only to say the opposite a week later.
I'm really surprised at the amount of elderly I see out and about and travelling by air. I agree the younger population needs to do more, but the old folks should bare some of the blame here too. We can't keep putting out all these restrictions on people to protect the elderly when they aren't doing all they can to protect themselves.
Fauci has been a government administrator for twenty-five years. I doubt he’s examined anything but paperwork in that time. While not elected he’s become a politician.
Regardless of outcome the COVID situation should be closely examined to see what was done right and wrong to be better prepared if there’s a next time. I don’t believe Fauci would grade out well in an analysis. I’ve gone from watching every presser to see what Fauci and Birx have for new information to snapping ‘STFU” when I see Fauci on the screen.
Of course Fauci is a politician. He is in a position where he has access to a lot of information and has a huge amount of knowledge and experience, and has to work with/for a government with its own agenda. He has made it pretty clear what he thinks, but he can't say some of it openly, and he refuses to do so, even when pushed by certain media. To criticize him for that is very unfair. I really appreciate the job that he is doing in a difficult place.
STFU= Some Thanks For U ?
@TerribleBPthrower posted:Regarding Fauci, I wouldn't be upset if we never heard from him again. He has contradicted himself and has been putting advice out only to say the opposite a week later.
I'm really surprised at the amount of elderly I see out and about and travelling by air. I agree the younger population needs to do more, but the old folks should bare some of the blame here too. We can't keep putting out all these restrictions on people to protect the elderly when they aren't doing all they can to protect themselves.
You'd have to point me to any instances where he's contradicted himself a week later because I don't know of any.
My favorite Fauci thing was when he said it would be OK for strangers to hook up on Tinder as long as they tried to be safe, while also earlier telling the nation we can never shake hands again. Come on.
If you're referring to his comments in Vanity Fair, you're completely mischaracterizing them.
@roothog66 posted:You'd have to point me to any instances where he's contradicted himself a week later because I don't know of any.
Agree.. I've found him to be more spot on than any other public figure throughout the process. The only (sort of) contradiction I've heard/seen is where he said the public does not need to wear masks. But if you followed that statement in it's entirety and considered context, it was said at that time when healthcare workers and essential workers were desperately short of PPE and he stated that they were priority for masks at that point in time.
Keep in mind, also, that Fauci has conceded all along the way that this was a new pandemic, a moving target with many unknowns and results could vary greatly depending on the extent of measures taken (and enforcement) in efforts to minimize the number of casualties and severe illness.
What amazes me is how straight forward and composed he has remained knowing he is undoubtedly operating under tremendous pressure from very high places to suppress the information and put a more positive spin on it.
@smokeminside posted:STFU= Some Thanks For U ?
It starts with “shut the ....”
@TerribleBPthrower posted:
I'm really surprised at the amount of elderly I see out and about and travelling by air. I agree the younger population needs to do more, but the old folks should bare some of the blame here too. We can't keep putting out all these restrictions on people to protect the elderly when they aren't doing all they can to protect themselves.
You are joking right? Some of these elderly folks don't want their golden years spent inside. They have the same rights as the millennium do.
Here in Florida, ages 20-35 are the ones testing positive. IMO there are a lot that age walking around with COVID. They may feel sick for a few days but won't go get tested. They don't stay within their circle of friends. And the don't wear masks.
I agree about Fauci. It's a tight rope that he has to work on and he does it well. I hope that they continue the updates without you know who.
All I know is that our Governor is finally wearing a mask, same for the VP.
Just some thoughts from someone who is going crazy each day thinking about this pandemic and how, if it ever will, end. I have no bias, just looking for that guidance or piece of information that is trust worthy. I will go wherever there is hope and positive outlook on the situation.
As much as I would love to think that people would do whatever is necessary to help with this virus, comments I hear, stuff I read, I just don't have any faith that we can come together as a nation to get anything done. Too much bickering and arguing and one side always having to be right instead of coming together for the greater good.
Partisan politics was already an issue in the country. The pandemic has just made it even worse. One side saying this is all a ploy to control the vote for the November election. And I don't even know how your opinion on wearing a mask tells which side you are on. This governor is doing this because he is on this side, that governor is doing this because she is on that side. I hate politics and I cringe every time a conversation about the virus turns into a political debate. The political side of this is all very exhausting. The whole "we are giving up our freedoms" argument is another statement that is presented during these discussions.
The lack of unified information or reliable information has also contributed to the divide in the country and how people are viewing and handling the pandemic. I still think that one of the worst things that happened was when Faucci said masks aren't necessary. Then that got turned around to wearing a mask. So the argument for the non mask wearers is Faucci wouldn't have said that if masks actually worked. Also, recently when the WHO came out and said asymptomatic people don't really spread the virus and then the the next day it was a "just kidding". Now people are arguing that the WHO wouldn't have said anything about asymptomatic people if there wasn't some truth behind it. The statement of the CDC website that says the virus does not easily spread from touching surfaces or objects, but yet we are calling for handshakes to be banished from eternity. It just feels like for every statement or "fact" that is presented to us, another organization or outlet tells us a different view. So at this point no one knows who or what to believe and people are going by what they believe or what makes them comfortable, wither it be the right or wrong approach.
Agree that the younger population is not taking this as serious as they should. I witness this first hand almost every day. The lady next door moved out of her house and left the house to her recent high school graduate son and his friends. Since she moved out it has turned into a frat house. 10-20 kids there at any given time partying it up.
I just don't know where we go from here. We will never get everyone on the same page. We are too far of a divided country right now. It was bad before the pandemic hit and it has even gotten worse over the past few months with all the events that has taken place.
I used to believe that there was a way to get our arms around this virus but I am starting to think it is just an uphill battle. All the schools coming back with large groups of student athletes testing positive, NBA has over 5% in their initial round of tests, high profile tennis players, and now it seems like the virus is starting to make it's way through the PGA Tour. I imagine when MLB gets around to testing we are going to see a pretty decent number of players test positive. I start to ponder is if the only way this thing goes away until it goes through so much of the population that we build heard immunity. I don't want to believe that, but it's hard not to.
I was listening to a radio show the other day and they summed it up with "we are on our own". I am starting to believe this more and more each day. I long for the day I can sit in a ballpark and yuck it up with the guy sitting next to me who gets up for a beer or food every inning and takes my arm rest leaving me with arms down by my side or sitting forward the whole game. That sounds a little like heaven right now. LOL.
In that early March 60 minutes interview, Fauci said: “Right now in the United States people should not be walking around with masks … You should think of healthcare providers who are needing them and the people who are ill.” This was at a time when there was a serious shortage of masks for healthcare workers.
Since at least April 2020, the CDC recommended that everyone wear cloth masks in public to help slow the spread of COVID-19. That recommendation changed because of studies that found even people without coronavirus symptoms, but who may still have the disease, could transmit the virus through close interactions with others, especially through speaking, coughing, and sneezing:
In light of this new evidence, CDC recommends wearing cloth face coverings in public settings where other social distancing measures are difficult to maintain (e.g., grocery stores and pharmacies) …
Advise changes as information changes, as it should, but to try and paint Fauci's early March statement as one that declared masks were NOT a defense or NOT needed takes the conversation out of context.
@roothog66 posted:In that early March 60 minutes interview, Fauci said: “Right now in the United States people should not be walking around with masks … You should think of healthcare providers who are needing them and the people who are ill.” This was at a time when there was a serious shortage of masks for healthcare workers.
Since at least April 2020, the CDC recommended that everyone wear cloth masks in public to help slow the spread of COVID-19. That recommendation changed because of studies that found even people without coronavirus symptoms, but who may still have the disease, could transmit the virus through close interactions with others, especially through speaking, coughing, and sneezing:
In light of this new evidence, CDC recommends wearing cloth face coverings in public settings where other social distancing measures are difficult to maintain (e.g., grocery stores and pharmacies) …
Advise changes as information changes, as it should, but to try and paint Fauci's early March statement as one that declared masks were NOT a defense or NOT needed takes the conversation out of context.
Agree with this. Agree that as this virus rolls on, we learn more about it and ways to combat it. But there are people who don't feel that way. It's almost playground "no take backs".
I stopped going on my Twitter account for awhile because I got tired of the arguing. If someone said the sky was blue, there would be an argument somewhere that we only think that because we were told the sky should be blue. Mind numbing. And the landscape on Twitter is exactly why I feel that we will never be able to come together as a whole to fight this thing on a unified front.
Hi Arceku21, can I offer a more positive spin on what you have said?
I am not troubled by the fact that leaders keep changing what they say. No-one knew anything about this virus, and the situation keeps changing. I would be more worried if they all kept saying the same thing over and over. The political stuff is troubling, but if elected leaders who formerly did not push masks now do so, I say, good for them. I am heartened that intelligent people can take new information and admit that they are changing their minds. It makes me think that they really do want to do what is best for the people they serve.
Every day there is new science; I am encouraged that so many scientists, around the world, are working night and day on this problem. We haven't seen anything like it before.
I am distressed by young people acting like idiots, but I'm not a young person. My children are not as isolated as they could be. I get it; they genuinely don't think there is much risk for them. Most don't have much to look forward to in the near future. I don't know what else we can do for them. Secretly, everyone wants to get the virus, have it asymptomatically, and recover, because they they won't have to worry any more.
I think that this virus was an opportunity to unite the country, and now people are saying it didn't happen. I am encouraged that polls show that most people do agree about certain things, regardless of what politicians and the media promote. I blame the media on all sides, as well as social media. However, I think that most people, now, are starting to wise up about just how much the media, and social media, are dividing the country. Maybe we will decide that we can do without some of it.
Not HSBBW, though!
Here is a big part of the problem. Not enough adequate testing and case tracing.
People that have had the virus and didn't protect themselves afterwards are becoming ill again. Do not assume you cant get it twice.
A doctor in Houston explained that the virus has shown itself in so many different ways. It's hard to keep up with it.
@anotherparent posted:Hi Arceku21, can I offer a more positive spin on what you have said?
I am not troubled by the fact that leaders keep changing what they say. No-one knew anything about this virus, and the situation keeps changing. I would be more worried if they all kept saying the same thing over and over. The political stuff is troubling, but if elected leaders who formerly did not push masks now do so, I say, good for them. I am heartened that intelligent people can take new information and admit that they are changing their minds. It makes me think that they really do want to do what is best for the people they serve.
Every day there is new science; I am encouraged that so many scientists, around the world, are working night and day on this problem. We haven't seen anything like it before.
I am distressed by young people acting like idiots, but I'm not a young person. My children are not as isolated as they could be. I get it; they genuinely don't think there is much risk for them. Most don't have much to look forward to in the near future. I don't know what else we can do for them. Secretly, everyone wants to get the virus, have it asymptomatically, and recover, because they they won't have to worry any more.
I think that this virus was an opportunity to unite the country, and now people are saying it didn't happen. I am encouraged that polls show that most people do agree about certain things, regardless of what politicians and the media promote. I blame the media on all sides, as well as social media. However, I think that most people, now, are starting to wise up about just how much the media, and social media, are dividing the country. Maybe we will decide that we can do without some of it.
Not HSBBW, though!
Spot on post. Can’t say I agree with some of your posts, but I do respect your opinions and consider your point of view. You’ve hit the nail on the head here. A divided country and sensational headlines equals better ratings and profits.
As long as we're talking about random things - how's the whether in your neck of the woods?
A big part of the problem is many older people, 50 plus, who have been told this is a pandemic. They expect the world to stop because for them it seems like the safest thing but the world can't and wont stop. Younger generations have never stopped nor will they stop. The fact that we slowed down to crawl for this long is amazing, our younger generations have been awesome....yes I said that they have been AWESOME.
Suck it up, protect yourself or don't it is your damn choice and back to living. Ignore the media because they lie, ignore Fauci because he couldn't give a straight honest response if his life depended on it, ignore the WHO because they don't say or do anything without approval from Gates and China...use your damn head. But stop whining and crying about young people - WE, US the older generation have screwed them harder then any generation in history they would be right to tell us to F off.
Give me an S!
Give me a T!
Give me an F!
Give me a U!
Give me another F!
Give me an HSBBW!
Give me a C!
Give me an O!
Give me a V, an I, and a D!
Give me an LOL!
Give me a TX, an FL, and an NC, too , eh?!
Give me an OK, an IMO, and a VP, as well!
Give me an MLB, an NBA, and a PGA!
Not to mention the CDC and the WHO!
Don't forget RMJ, and JCG, TPM, TBPT, and JF!
What's that spell?!
FUTS IF I NO!
@old_school posted:A big part of the problem is many older people, 50 plus, who have been told this is a pandemic. They expect the world to stop because for them it seems like the safest thing but the world can't and wont stop. Younger generations have never stopped nor will they stop. The fact that we slowed down to crawl for this long is amazing, our younger generations have been awesome....yes I said that they have been AWESOME.
Suck it up, protect yourself or don't it is your damn choice and back to living. Ignore the media because they lie, ignore Fauci because he couldn't give a straight honest response if his life depended on it, ignore the WHO because they don't say or do anything without approval from Gates and China...use your damn head. But stop whining and crying about young people - WE, US the older generation have screwed them harder then any generation in history they would be right to tell us to F off.
Great post. Again something went really wrong in NYC and surrounding areas. We need to figure out what that was and not emulate it. But we need to stop talking about the "whole country" as if it is all the same. In places like FL and TX, that are giving in to political pressure due to increased positive tests, thIs has become a political and legal risk issue, not a medical health issue.
In TX and FL this is not as bad as flu season of 2018, that is fact. Some counties in some states are having trouble, but most are not. For comparison here is CDC data through 6/13 showing excess deaths(anything above the yellow line with a +) in FL, TX, and NYC. What we should be saying is "WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED IN NYC? LETS NOT DO THAT!"
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Either masks work or they don’t. If you’re requiring them because they stop the spread then reopen everything. If they don’t work then the mandates are BS. Pick a narrative and stick to it.
smokeinside, LMAO!
@DesertDuck posted:Either masks work or they don’t. If you’re requiring them because they stop the spread then reopen everything. If they don’t work then the mandates are BS. Pick a narrative and stick to it.
Because if masks don't reduce transmission of the virus by 100%, then they are useless? DD, we disagree about a lot of things, but I give you more credit than that.
@Chico Escuela posted:Because if masks don't reduce transmission of the virus by 100%, then they are useless? DD, we disagree about a lot of things, but I give you more credit than that.
Agreed, we don't agree on much. And, I give you more credit than to infer assumptions where they don't exist.
@DesertDuck posted:Either masks work or they don’t. If you’re requiring them because they stop the spread then reopen everything. If they don’t work then the mandates are BS. Pick a narrative and stick to it.
No, it's not that. It's that the science has moved forward, really fast, after the start of the outbreak. Earlier studies have now shown not to be relevant. There are new discoveries. If you are a politician, either you man up (why are they all men?) and say, "at one time we thought this, but now we have more science and we know differently" or you sheepishly mutter "oh, o.k., let's all wear masks now, so my state doesn't get a bigger disaster that they blame on me." Which will get you more public trust?
Reopen everything? Next time people are wearing masks in a bar will be a first. I agree, reopen everything where people can/will wear masks. Keep the rest closed.
@Pedaldad posted:Great post. Again something went really wrong in NYC and surrounding areas. We need to figure out what that was and not emulate it. But we need to stop talking about the "whole country" as if it is all the same. In places like FL and TX, that are giving in to political pressure due to increased positive tests, thIs has become a political and legal risk issue, not a medical health issue.
In TX and FL this is not as bad as flu season of 2018, that is fact. Some counties in some states are having trouble, but most are not. For comparison here is CDC data through 6/13 showing excess deaths(anything above the yellow line with a +) in FL, TX, and NYC. What we should be saying is "WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED IN NYC? LETS NOT DO THAT!"
New York, NJ and CT put COVID + seniors back into senior living/nursing homes. It was 40% of deaths. I also have to assume that the virus got to NYC earlier than other major metropolitan areas. The spread was easy due to the heavy use of subways and buses for commuters. That made the issue much worse. We have people in our office taking antibody tests now and as expected 5 have the antibodies, certainly more do but have not tested yet. Unfortunately or fortunately I am negative for antibodies. We suspected it hit our desk before testing was available. We sent everyone home the first week of March, it was in my office in mid-Feb for sure. Lastly Gottlieb this am estimates 25% of NY have had coronavirus at this point - another study from 4/19 shows at that point 20% had the virus. It just got to NY quicker, spread due to how people commute, and some policies that were not in the best interest (please let's not have a political discussion on who's fault the senior issue was).
@DesertDuck posted:Agreed, we don't agree on much. And, I give you more credit than to infer assumptions where they don't exist.
From your earlier post: "Either masks work or they don’t. If you’re requiring them because they stop the spread then reopen everything. If they don’t work then the mandates are BS." I don't see room in that sentence for the possibility that masks reduce transmission of the virus, but don't stop it (and therefore don't make it safe to reopen completely.) But if that's what you meant, then why not wear a mask?
Let's assume it's unclear whether masks reduce C-19 transmission. If a mask might help prevent you from unknowingly infecting another person, why wouldn't you wear one? It's 90+ degrees and humid where I live--masks are uncomfortable and fog my glasses. I also am quite hard of hearing, and masks make it extremely tough to understand speech. In short, masks are a pain in the rear. I wear one anyway (and now NC requires it).
For those who may be interested, here is a demonstration of masks' (imperfect, but helpful) ability to prevent transmission of some types of microorganisms. It is a demonstration, not a controlled study, and it does not directly consider COVID, but it's illustrative.
As this thread started about fear of not having a 2021 spring sport season, I'm concerned about the trend MLBers opting out of the season is setting. I don't know if they are leveraging the pandemic or truly scared little ignoramuses. I apologize ahead of time to any ignorumeses offended by the politically incorrect language.
But really? Afraid of the "personal health and safety" risks for going to work as a baseball player in an empty stadium? WTF? We have hospital staff, grocery store employees, and all other walks of life going to work every day, interacting with people in much more direct ways, and many would love to come home and watch a baseball game at the end of a day.
This is disturbing.
Totally agree GMac. The mass transit was key to the spread. OS has a lot of good points also. I think at this point its good hygiene, masks, social distancing when you can and older generation stay away from the rest of us. The numbers OVERALL show us where and who this affects the most and who will die most likely when getting it. The younger generation has taken a beating for the older generation, I’d like to see them be smarter about things( maybe not have giant beach parties or congregate in bars right now) but the majority of us need to move forward. Zero transmission or cases as an expectation is silly, a vaccine most likely with be 75% effective at best and we have therapeutics to help hospitalization numbers. Be accountable, act intelligently, use common sense and we can begin to get back to something that resembles where we once were but will never totally get back to.
Pedal, Obviously you don't get that MLBers are protected by MLB Players Union. MLBPA must negotiate with team owners. Team owners are only interested in their bottom line. They aren't interested in health of the players who are the reason they make anything in the first place! Teams can write off losses.
Players are reporting tomorrow. Testing, testing, & more testing of everyone...clubbies, coaches, equipment personnel, front office, trainers, etc, etc, etc. You have no clue of what all is involved in addition to the players. Players are taking substantial paycuts as it is. Phillies have already reported 12 players as positive...We'll see in the next few days how widespread it is. At this point, I stand with players & MLBPA. Boils down to risk-reward. (And protections for players).
JMO
There are so many false positives and varied ways of reporting (mixing results from antibody tests with Covid tests, probably cases mixed with actual cases) if this many people REALLY do have it, we are in great shape since the death rate is down. MLB players should count their blessings and play ball. There are a ton of guys out there that aren't getting to, and would in a second.