Elephant in the room

@RJM posted:

It’s not unbiased news unless I agree. 😁 The reality is there are two sets of news from two completely different planets. One is nothing but lies. The other is completely the truth. A person just has to decide which version of reality they prefer. 

I’ve watched a story on one side of cable news then turned to the other side and watched an interpretation that made me wonder if they’re from the same planet. 

The only way to get closer to the truth is read a news aggregator with coverage from both sides. Then sort out what makes sense as reality. I assembled my on news an opinion package from Flipboard. I also find Media Bias/Fact Check and Allsides to be reasonably accurate in their evaluation of news sources. Even then your view will be distorted by your biases. 

It’s sad I find the need to know the source and the writer before reading a news story or opinion. What I find disappointing is it’s hard to get news with an opinionated twist. Just the facts is long gone.

I hear ya and no doubt, we are all guilty with our biases.  I've said before - I, too, make the effort... I read/listen to a reasonable spectrum for perspective, from CNN to Fox (yeah, both not so reasonable at times) but then rely primarily on those media outlets that are consistently rated as more factual and less biased, such as AP News and WSJ.  I agree it is a damn shame that we have to go through that exercise these days but I sure wish more folks would do so.  That would be a huge step in bringing us back together and repairing some of the damage.

@cabbagedad posted:

I hear ya and no doubt, we are all guilty with our biases.  I've said before - I, too, make the effort... I read/listen to a reasonable spectrum for perspective, from CNN to Fox (yeah, both not so reasonable at times) but then rely primarily on those media outlets that are consistently rated as more factual and less biased, such as AP News and WSJ.  I agree it is a damn shame that we have to go through that exercise these days but I sure wish more folks would do so.  That would be a huge step in bringing us back together and repairing some of the damage.

Sometimes you have to understand who you’re talking with and how much or little you can move them with opinion and facts. My lifelong, best friend has drawn every paycheck from or indirectly via funding from the government. His wife is the same. His parents were lifelong government employees. I started in the corporate world. Then I started my own business. I know the limited versus big government argument is only going to move him so far. So I don’t bother. Over the years we’ve come to recognize when we’re wasting our time debating each other and stop.

Yeah, admittedly not my strong suit.  My damn logical mind keeps wondering WTF.  Even when I know, sometimes, their logical minds work differently than mine.

Hard to name 5 right leaning news sources

@edcoach posted:

Hard to name 5 right leaning news sources

Not at all. Brietbart, Fox, Epoch Times, National Review, Newsmax, American Conservator, OAN, Washington Examiner, Washington Times. That's off the top of my head and I just stopped because I got tired of writing.

@cabbagedad posted:

I hear ya and no doubt, we are all guilty with our biases.  I've said before - I, too, make the effort... I read/listen to a reasonable spectrum for perspective, from CNN to Fox (yeah, both not so reasonable at times) but then rely primarily on those media outlets that are consistently rated as more factual and less biased, such as AP News and WSJ.  I agree it is a damn shame that we have to go through that exercise these days but I sure wish more folks would do so.  That would be a huge step in bringing us back together and repairing some of the damage.

Yeah. Fox News changed everything. CNN, up until a few years ago was pretty balanced, despite what those on the right claimed. Fox came in with a very right bent, hired away all of CNN's conservatives and all but forced CNN to pick a lane in order to compete. Currently, though you have to consider that some of the outlets appear to lean a bit left (ABC, CBS, AP, etc.) simply because - and I know this will draw ire - the truth DOES tilt a little left with the current administration.

ON the other side, you have the WSJ which has historically leaned VERY right but now looks almost neutral, but trust me, when Trump is gone (it's an example of a right wing, true conservative news source that has an anti-Trump component), they'll be back to a conservative (vs. blind right wing) leaning.

We no longer live in a world where news outlets can BE neutral and survive.

@edcoach posted:

Hard to name 5 right leaning news sources

Seriously?  Fox (and their dozens of spin-offs), Breitbart, Daily Caller, Washington Times, Federalist, Red State, The Blaze, New York Post, One America News, the Daily Wire, Hannity, Limbaugh, O'Rielly...  A 2 second google search pulls up dozens more.  One link shows sixty...  

PS - Oops, I see Root already replied.

Plus almost 300 local TV stations owned by Sinclair Broadcasting.

Plus my Aunt Edna in Spokane.

@smokeminside posted:

Plus my Aunt Edna in Spokane.

Come on, man. EVERYBODY knows your Aunt Edna is "fake news."

Not to cast aspersions on Spokane.  Lovely town, fantastic weather, low cost of living.  But that's where Aunt Edna happens to live.

Plus her right leg is shorter than her left, so she literally leans right.

@roothog66 posted:

ON the other side, you have the WSJ which has historically leaned VERY right but now looks almost neutral, but trust me, when Trump is gone (it's an example of a right wing, true conservative news source that has an anti-Trump component), they'll be back to a conservative (vs. blind right wing) leaning.

I actually think the WSJ's news department is objective.  It's the opinion pages that lean to the right.  Basically the same is true for the NYT (except their op/eds lean left).  I try to check both out for my facts.  I don't pay any attention to "columnists" or "opinions" in any paper.

https://www.dallasnews.com/new...number-of-positives/

The left dominates National TV media, by a score of Fox vs all the rest....if You want to do research and read there are many options. The TV media is way way way left as a group. 

Root the reason WSJ is tough on trump is due to him being a life long Democrat...your party went so bat shit crazy he won as your opponent. Truth is stranger then fiction. 

When looking at sources you have to look at what is supposed to be news and what is supposed to be opinion on the news. The New York Times and Washington Post have mostly left leaning opinion columnists. From a news reporting standpoint they’re reasonably accurate. What annoys me is when they omit facts that alters perception to suit their left leaning agenda. 

But my Flipboard news aggregator brings in the same sources from multiple sources. I can read and decide what is true. I’m not picking which version is true. I’m looking for facts that are accurate across the board.

It’s impossible to do with cable news opinion shows. Fox and OAN are from Venus. CNN and MS-NBC are from Mars.

These four stations tend to distort. I watch a little of each once in a while. Being a right leaning libertarian after sifting out the BS I’m more likely to agree with a Fox story. But I watched one show where the host was ripping on the left for wanting to remove a statue of Abraham Lincoln in Boston. What the host didn’t explain is why. The statue has been a matter of controversy for years. I disagree with removing it. But I understand why some would want it removed.

Never thought the Clinton News Network was ever right of anything

If you believe half the stuff you read and half the stuff you see, then realize the truth/reality is somewhere in the middle you'll be OK....  We've gone beyond the age of sound bites and live squarely in the age of clicks and swipes. So hard to watch/read any news these days - that's why sports is/was such a great outlet. With no sports we're stuck with weather, traffic, or news.  When you're locked indoors traffic and weather do not matter that much. Maybe news programs are at fault for the pandemic and keeping it relevant because without it, what would there to be report on? Politics?  ;-)   Or maybe stories that start with the phrase "A Florida man..." resulting in some college kid having to drink...

Let me add my 2 cents.  For the majority, I like those that put their focus on the right side better than those on the left.  However, they will sometimes have to change to the left on quick instinct, so they need to have some experience with that as well.  Still, I believe a rightward thinking approach is preferred, but often hard to keep in their head.

Preparing my sermon for this weekend.  I wonder how many people who will vote in November would have a problem taking this oath before they were allowed to vote?

@PitchingFan posted:

Preparing my sermon for this weekend.  I wonder how many people who will vote in November would have a problem taking this oath before they were allowed to vote?

"I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty, of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the Armed Forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God."

Did you read Starship Troopers recently?

No  Never read it or seen it.  Just watched the preview but don't see the connection.  You lost me.

I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty, of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; 

No problem in general but this bit makes no sense for a native born American citizen who has never been a citizen of another country.

Also, I  believe in making voting easy and accessible for all not adding more hoops for people to jump through in order to exercise their right to vote.

My premise is that I believe a lot of residents of the US would have a problem saying this to be able to vote.  I think voting should be easy but it should also be regulated as to providing proof of residence in certain districts/states and show proof of government issued identification.  For several reasons some would not want to quote this.  There are those who have allegiances to other places or want to attach themselves to other places more than the US.  There are those who do not even realize this is what someone has to quote to become a citizen of the United States if they were not born here. 

@Pedaldad posted:

Sure, I am a physician/surgeon in one of our country's largest medical institutions.  I  have been there a decade, and practicing since 2002.   In addition to my medical degree, I hold Bachelor of Science degrees in chemistry, biology, and a Master's in Orthopaedic Biomechanics.

So, care to opine on the science-based recommendations of Dr. Del Rio and Dr. Lewin at Emory?

https://www.ajc.com/news/emory...GD6X2QLHvDDe99JokKN/

If anybody wants masks to be mandated, they better pass a law first. Otherwise be prepared to be caught up in court as we are seeing in CA counties. Like someone else posted, this may be an ethical situation to some but you also have to abide by the laws. If there is no law, you can't force people to do it- strong suggestion language or not. 

Governors have powers of emergency determined by their state constitutions.  They cannot necessarily take the time to pass a law, in an emergency situation.  Aren't all states under emergency status now?  Just a random googling produces:

- Michigan (Act in 1945):  During times of great public crisis, disaster, rioting, catastrophe, or similar public emergency within the state, or reasonable apprehension of immediate danger of a public emergency of that kind, whenpublic safety is imperiled, . . . the governor may proclaim a state of emergency and designate the area involved. After making the proclamation or declaration, the governor may promulgate reasonable orders, rules, and regulations as he or she considers necessary to protect life and property or to bring the emergency situation within the affected area under control. . . . .

- Texas Disaster Act of 1975 (among other things says):  The governor may suspend the provisions of any regulatory statute prescribing the procedures for conduct of state business or the orders or rules of a state agency if strict compliance with the provisions, orders, or rules would in any way prevent, hinder, or delay necessary action in coping with a disaster.

https://community.hsbaseballwe...37#62685133993856637

I'm talking newspapers.  The sites you mentioned are not news sources as much as opinion sites

Also check with health departments. IL hasn't issues anything because state constitution says governor and health dept cannot mandate anything to stop transmission of a disease. 

1922 Illinois Supreme Court case, Barmore v Robertson, deemed general health regulations such as these as beyond your authority when it stated that "Health authorities cannot promulgate and enforce rules which merely have a tendency to prevent the spread of contagious and infectious diseases."

Lots of mandates and executive orders, but no language anywhere that orders healthy people to quarantine or forcibly make them wear anything to protect other people. 

@PitchingFan posted:

No  Never read it or seen it.  Just watched the preview but don't see the connection.  You lost me.

 

Sorry, some of that reminds me of the discussions in the book.  Basically, to vote, they said you had to actually serve in the military or do a similar type of service to the state.  If you didn't want to, then no problem either, except you can't vote.  Your statement was different, but saw some parallels.

Well PitchingFan's statement is the US naturalization oath, which was apparently put in place in 1950.

The 14th Amendment (1868) says: "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States." 

One of the privileges of citizenship is voting.

@LuckyCat posted:

So, care to opine on the science-based recommendations of Dr. Del Rio and Dr. Lewin at Emory?

https://www.ajc.com/news/emory...GD6X2QLHvDDe99JokKN/

I'm a scientist, myself, but that isn't about science, but public policy.  A scientific argument could be that wearing masks would slow the spread of the virus.  I'd say the vast majority of scientists and regular people would agree with that statement.  However, that is far different than stating that people should be required under penalty of law to wear them in public. 

If you've ever read the tiny print in a passport, it has a statement about "Loss of US Citizenship" and "Dual Citizenship". 

I think bottom line with masks is this too. Either they work or they don't. If they work and you require everyone to wear one (and social distance), then everything can be open, absolutely everything. If they don't work, then stop the mandate nonsense. My opinion. 

So....... anyone else like Van Fleet?  

@PitchingFan posted:

My premise is that I believe a lot of residents of the US would have a problem saying this to be able to vote.  I think voting should be easy but it should also be regulated as to providing proof of residence in certain districts/states and show proof of government issued identification.  For several reasons some would not want to quote this.  There are those who have allegiances to other places or want to attach themselves to other places more than the US.  There are those who do not even realize this is what someone has to quote to become a citizen of the United States if they were not born here. 

 

I had to read this over 3 or 4 times

First, I don't know why vote by mail is such an issue for some people. Oh wait, I forgot, there are a bunch of folks that believe, from what they hear, that there is too much fraud involved in vote by mail. That's because there are many states that actually surpress voting and fool around with districting to create unfair advantages. That usually occurs in black neighborhoods where folks do not have transportation to polling places an hour away then when transportation is arranged for these neighborhoods, we have people commenting on bringing people by the bus loads!

I believe that some states DO NOT REQUIRE  picture ID so that they can turn away the voter.  I actually believe everyone should be required to have a picture ID for identification, for everything.

As far as I am aware of,  there was one case of  fraud in 2016 in NC. Is anyone aware of anywhere else?  Our current president put together a task force to try to prove that there was fraud because he did not win the popular vote.  I am NOT even go into the Russian thing.

So here is how they do it in our state. One must have an ID, which is usually a driver's license, state ID, passport, proof of residency, which  may include either a car registration, lease, deed, utility bill, or bank statement.  Those getting drivers licenses for the first time or those that move to the state permently are automatically sent a new voters registration. I am not sure if you have to surrender your prior state license, but in FL if you move here  permanently  you need to get a new vehicle registration or you get a fine. 

If you want to vote by mail, you must REQUEST a ballot. That request is sent by you by phone text or by mail from Tallahassee. In the text, you have to answer qualifying questions to your identity. This actually creates a fair opportunity rather than having ONE POLLING PLACE in a major city.

As per having to take an oath, I have done that thousands of times when I have recited the pledge of allegiance. I mean there are people screaming that they have a right not to wear a mask and you think I should take an oath to pledge my allegiance before I vote?

FWIW,  people that have come to this country and then become citizens know more about  America than many Americans,

@TPM posted:

I had to read this over 3 or 4 times

First, I don't know why vote by mail is such an issue for some people. Oh wait, I forgot, there are a bunch of folks that believe, from what they hear, that there is too much fraud involved in vote by mail. That's because there are many states that actually surpress voting and fool around with districting to create unfair advantages. That usually occurs in black neighborhoods where folks do not have transportation to polling places an hour away then when transportation is arranged for these neighborhoods, we have people commenting on bringing people by the bus loads!

I believe that some states DO NOT REQUIRE  picture ID so that they can turn away the voter.  I actually believe everyone should be required to have a picture ID for identification, for everything.

As far as I am aware of,  there was one case of  fraud in 2016 in NC. Is anyone aware of anywhere else?  Our current president put together a task force to try to prove that there was fraud because he did not win the popular vote.  I am NOT even go into the Russian thing.

So here is how they do it in our state. One must have an ID, which is usually a driver's license, state ID, passport, proof of residency, which  may include either a car registration, lease, deed, utility bill, or bank statement.  Those getting drivers licenses for the first time or those that move to the state permently are automatically sent a new voters registration. I am not sure if you have to surrender your prior state license, but in FL if you move here  permanently  you need to get a new vehicle registration or you get a fine. 

If you want to vote by mail, you must REQUEST a ballot. That request is sent by you by phone text or by mail from Tallahassee. In the text, you have to answer qualifying questions to your identity. This actually creates a fair opportunity rather than having ONE POLLING PLACE in a major city.

As per having to take an oath, I have done that thousands of times when I have recited the pledge of allegiance. I mean there are people screaming that they have a right not to wear a mask and you think I should take an oath to pledge my allegiance before I vote?

FWIW,  people that have come to this country and then become citizens know more about  America than many Americans,

 

TPM - delete paragraphs 1,2,3  leave 4&5 and delete the rest and you probably would have had 10 likes and a lot of agreement.  The rest is not needed, it is just going to create posts with counterfactual information and it seems like its meant to incite.... Why does it have to go there?

@PitchingFan posted:

My premise is that I believe a lot of residents of the US would have a problem saying this to be able to vote.  I think voting should be easy but it should also be regulated as to providing proof of residence in certain districts/states and show proof of government issued identification.  For several reasons some would not want to quote this.  There are those who have allegiances to other places or want to attach themselves to other places more than the US.  There are those who do not even realize this is what someone has to quote to become a citizen of the United States if they were not born here. 

 

Yes, absolutely!  I get it. People should be knowledgeable before they vote and be serious. Voting is a right and a responsibility that should not be taken lightly. You illustrated the point perfectly. 

@anotherparent posted:

Governors have powers of emergency determined by their state constitutions.  They cannot necessarily take the time to pass a law, in an emergency situation.  Aren't all states under emergency status now?  Just a random googling produces:

- Michigan (Act in 1945):  During times of great public crisis, disaster, rioting, catastrophe, or similar public emergency within the state, or reasonable apprehension of immediate danger of a public emergency of that kind, whenpublic safety is imperiled, . . . the governor may proclaim a state of emergency and designate the area involved. After making the proclamation or declaration, the governor may promulgate reasonable orders, rules, and regulations as he or she considers necessary to protect life and property or to bring the emergency situation within the affected area under control. . . . .

- Texas Disaster Act of 1975 (among other things says):  The governor may suspend the provisions of any regulatory statute prescribing the procedures for conduct of state business or the orders or rules of a state agency if strict compliance with the provisions, orders, or rules would in any way prevent, hinder, or delay necessary action in coping with a disaster.

You are correct. But the orders are not permitted to go on indefinitely. 

@Gunner Mack Jr. posted:

TPM - delete paragraphs 1,2,3  leave 4&5 and delete the rest and you probably would have had 10 likes and a lot of agreement.  The rest is not needed, it is just going to create posts with counterfactual information and it seems like its meant to incite.... Why does it have to go there.

I spoke what's on my mind. Just like everyone else does.

No one needs to respond if they don't like what I posted.

@TPM posted:

I had to read this over 3 or 4 times

First, I don't know why vote by mail is such an issue for some people. Oh wait, I forgot, there are a bunch of folks that believe, from what they hear, that there is too much fraud involved in vote by mail. That's because there are many states that actually surpress voting and fool around with districting to create unfair advantages. That usually occurs in black neighborhoods where folks do not have transportation to polling places an hour away then when transportation is arranged for these neighborhoods, we have people commenting on bringing people by the bus loads!

I believe that some states DO NOT REQUIRE  picture ID so that they can turn away the voter.  I actually believe everyone should be required to have a picture ID for identification, for everything.

As far as I am aware of,  there was one case of  fraud in 2016 in NC. Is anyone aware of anywhere else?  Our current president put together a task force to try to prove that there was fraud because he did not win the popular vote.  I am NOT even go into the Russian thing.

So here is how they do it in our state. One must have an ID, which is usually a driver's license, state ID, passport, proof of residency, which  may include either a car registration, lease, deed, utility bill, or bank statement.  Those getting drivers licenses for the first time or those that move to the state permently are automatically sent a new voters registration. I am not sure if you have to surrender your prior state license, but in FL if you move here  permanently  you need to get a new vehicle registration or you get a fine. 

If you want to vote by mail, you must REQUEST a ballot. That request is sent by you by phone text or by mail from Tallahassee. In the text, you have to answer qualifying questions to your identity. This actually creates a fair opportunity rather than having ONE POLLING PLACE in a major city.

As per having to take an oath, I have done that thousands of times when I have recited the pledge of allegiance. I mean there are people screaming that they have a right not to wear a mask and you think I should take an oath to pledge my allegiance before I vote?

FWIW,  people that have come to this country and then become citizens know more about  America than many Americans,

 

I really like the FL absentee ballot process. I also like the ability to go online and verify your vote was received. I think they even allow you to correct it once up until Election Day.