Elephant in the room

Every D1 program has had to submit a detailed plan to their state. All programs in Florida were approved. I saw the opening plan for FAU. 25 pages and very detailed. All staff as well as each student must go through the testing process. Masks mandatory in class and on campus.

I would imagine parents will be receiving opening plans soon. As someone here said and I agree, parents have to be assured that the school is taking every precaution.

As far as sports, each coach has to submit a plan to their AD and to their conference.  I would imagine they are pretty detailed.

@smokeminside posted:

In the wake of the news that several schools have cancelled their fall sports programs I'm now beginning to wonder if sports/on-campus classes will be cancelled in the spring as well. sports in the spring.  Fauci is hopeful that there is a vaccine by the end of the year but it could take another six months after that.

If so, then what?  Campuses closed down for the whole year? A second class (2021) graduates remotely? It's entirely possible that members of the Class of 2021 will not see their classmates on campus again until their class reunions.

Is it too early to start drinking?  

Well, my guy is 21, so, no.

Way off topic.  As I've shared elsewhere he's doing his internship remotely and there is a six hour time difference between where the main office is and where we live.  On Fridays the interns celebrate a virtual happy hour at  6-ish East Coast time and they've teased him about drinking so early in his day.  Since he's been up since 2am, he figures it's okay.

@JCG posted:

Is it too early to start drinking?  

It is not! 

@adbono posted:

It is not! 

 Because it's 5 o'clock somewhere!

We are still moving forward to having face to face in two weeks. 

Son's school in the North East (CT) is coming on campus 8/24, quarantining for 2 weeks and doing remote learning while taking covid tests. They leave for Thanksgiving and don't return. They taking their last 2 weeks of finals online. I've heard the same plan from several schools.

@nycdad posted:

Son's school in the North East (CT) is coming on campus 8/24, quarantining for 2 weeks and doing remote learning while taking covid tests. They leave for Thanksgiving and don't return. They taking their last 2 weeks of finals online. I've heard the same plan from several schools.

That appears to be the plan at most schools.

The issue with the students is that the school can take every precaution and it won't matter much.  The students are going to party, hook up and there will be large outbreaks.  We are already seeing it with football teams and that is with no students on campus.  The Arizona president said they have time and that things can change but as of today they wouldn't bring students on campus.  

Does Southern New Hampshire University have online baseball too? There probably wasn’t a college more prepared for shifting to remote learning. They have 3,000 on campus and 80,000 online students. Maybe the baseball team could play Strat-O-Matic online.

@JCG posted:

Is it too early to start drinking?  

Started tonight.

So what's frightening is this — when bars in Iowa opened my daughter's friends decided to go out drinking. She is living at home and very adament about her social distancing and declined. Her roommate at school told her later that a group of about 10 went out. A week later about seven had tested positive. Come to find out the girl who organized the outing had tested positive and knew it when she got the group together.

How do you fix stupid????? And just rude?

@Iowamom23 posted:

Started tonight.

Badda bing, badda boom!

@Iowamom23 posted:

So what's frightening is this — when bars in Iowa opened my daughter's friends decided to go out drinking. She is living at home and very adament about her social distancing and declined. Her roommate at school told her later that a group of about 10 went out. A week later about seven had tested positive. Come to find out the girl who organized the outing had tested positive and knew it when she got the group together.

How do you fix stupid????? And just rude?

That's brutal.

@Iowamom23 posted:

So what's frightening is this — when bars in Iowa opened my daughter's friends decided to go out drinking. She is living at home and very adament about her social distancing and declined. Her roommate at school told her later that a group of about 10 went out. A week later about seven had tested positive. Come to find out the girl who organized the outing had tested positive and knew it when she got the group together.

How do you fix stupid????? And just rude?

Good for your daughter.  

You can't fix stupid!!!!!!!

@RJM posted:

Does Southern New Hampshire University have online baseball too? There probably wasn’t a college more prepared for shifting to remote learning. They have 3,000 on campus and 80,000 online students. Maybe the baseball team could play Strat-O-Matic online.

Sure they're prepared, but ponder this - there's a difference in cost - how do you account for that as a school/business? Traditional students/parents obviously would then only want to pay the remote learning costs. Of course they also want the access to the prof of the traditional student. The remote learning is different in that regard - it's a numbers game. If you're remote and know some number of students are added to the class you're attending have extra access but without paying more, that's a problem.

What seems to be missing is an understanding by those of us living in fear is that  "the cat is out of the bag".  Covid-19 is here and we will all eventually get it.  All leaders on this (Trump, Fauci, Pelosi, etc.) are full of bull when they they promote vaccines and testing as anything other than face saving measures for themselves.  None of them have real answers and none of them will for a long time.  

Young people should be responsible, but not to the detriment of normal life.  Their chance to meet friends, get an education, earn a living, build their future, and raise a family should not be compromised anymore.  The death rate for people under the age of 30 is about 1/10,000.  The death rate for people without pre-existing conditions in this age is effectively 0, and 80% or more don't even get symptoms.   It is true we don't know long term effects, but let me stress the most important part of that....WE DON'T KNOW.

If you are someone at risk due to age, illness, etc or interact closely with someone who is, protect yourself and your loved ones.  There will be no vaccine for a very long time, the chance of getting one before herd immunity is reached is ridiculously remote.   So myself, I will not call out the young for being young, nor will I call them stupid for being young.  They have already made too great a sacrifice for those at the other end of life and those that choose to live in fear.

What do the young and (almost) invincible owe to others?  Seems to me there is some ideal point (somewhere...) between living one's life as if your choices have no consequences for others and staying in your parents' basement for up to 2 years+.  Students on campus will interact with staff and faculty who are older.  Students will leave campus at times (if nothing else, to go home to parents who are presumably at least middle-aged).  These actions will affect others.  I don't know what the right balance is...

I do believe very strongly that the lengthy plans schools are issuing are mostly wishful thinking.  (Actually, I'd use a word less polite than "wishful thinking," but let's go with that term.)  I teach at a state U and am very familiar with my school's plans and those of a few other schools.  Most faculty I know at whatever institution--people who deal with college kids regularly--think that once students get to campus, they will do essentially whatever they want.  But the recent experience of FL, TX, and other states suggests this is also going to be true if those same kids stay home.  

I also think that colleges will almost inevitably see some kids (and maybe employees) hospitalized, a few schools will see some deaths.  Parents (and possibly students) probably won't react well to that, and a lot of finger-pointing and second-guessing will ensue. Some universities will have to seriously consider sending students home again.  (Should they?  I have almost given up having an opinion...)

@Pedaldad posted:

What seems to be missing is an understanding by those of us living in fear is that  "the cat is out of the bag".  Covid-19 is here and we will all eventually get it.  All leaders on this (Trump, Fauci, Pelosi, etc.) are full of bull when they they promote vaccines and testing as anything other than face saving measures for themselves.  None of them have real answers and none of them will for a long time.  

Young people should be responsible, but not to the detriment of normal life.  Their chance to meet friends, get an education, earn a living, build their future, and raise a family should not be compromised anymore.  The death rate for people under the age of 30 is about 1/10,000.  The death rate for people without pre-existing conditions in this age is effectively 0, and 80% or more don't even get symptoms.   It is true we don't know long term effects, but let me stress the most important part of that....WE DON'T KNOW.

If you are someone at risk due to age, illness, etc or interact closely with someone who is, protect yourself and your loved ones.  There will be no vaccine for a very long time, the chance of getting one before heard immunity is reached is ridiculously remote.   So myself, I will not call out the young for being young, nor will I call them stupid for being young.  They have already made too great a sacrifice for those at the other end of life and those that choose to live in fear.

 

Well, if we really want to "make America great again", why wouldn't we go back to doing the things Americans have always done in tough times and disasters.  When there are disasters like hurricanes, floods, wildfires, earthquakes, etc., we band together and offer help however we can.  Often, we disrupt our normal lives to lend a hand in person, even across the country.  We send financial aid, supplies, offer our genuine sympathies to those affected... whatever we can do.  When a true injustice occurs, we rally behind those affected, even if our personal lives are far removed from the injustices of those victims.  We sacrifice our own time, money, efforts on their behalf because humans care for humans, no matter how fallible we all are.  In times of war, our young take a step back from "meeting friends getting an education, earning a living..." and sacrifice for the sake of all others living in the country so that we can all preserve our liberties, build a better future, raise a family, etc.  Often, it is the ultimate sacrifice. 

This pandemic has shown clear potential to be more deadly than most wars we have participated in.  In the event of another major war, as much as I hate the idea of my kids having to step up and join the military, I sure as hell wouldn't suggest that we instead send the elderly, and those otherwise "at risk" with disease because they are more likely to die anyway.

We've covered this over and over... We do know that nearly 1/2 of US adults are "at risk".  We do know that the virus is heavily contagious and often asymptomatic.  It is a serious stretch to say that "we will eventually all get it".   That has never happened with any other pandemic.  Setting the young completely loose with little or no guidelines or restrictions will undoubtedly lead to exponentially more death.  When it comes to national emergencies, disasters, etc., I expect my young adult children to be responsible, compassionate humans and be willing to put their personal pursuits and "normal life" on hold for a time in effort to do their part in helping our community, our country, our world get through the present issue.

I'm not suggesting the country shut down economically again.  But we do need to come together and unite with reasonable proper precautions.  

I haven't posted in a while but after catching up on a few threads I can't resist. Things are looking quite bleak around the country:

* https://www.cdc.gov/coronaviru...covidview/index.html

And if you are wondering, ILI visits include anyone having influenza-like symptoms and yes, this includes those who ultimately may test positive for COVID-19. If you are sick and feel the need to visit a doctor you go. I guess not too many people feel the need to visit their doctor. While COVID-19 positive tests may be trending up, a lot of people testing positive must not feel the need to visit their doctor:

We are well below last year's baseline. I guess we should just shut down all schools and try again next year.

Absorber, so far as I can determine, public health professionals, governors and other decision makers don't consider those stats particularly relevant.  When even the governors of TX and FL feel the need to slow their states' reopening rolls, then the news ain't great.  

I started to get into data and trends, but I don't want to turn this into another one of those threads.  There are very, very few decision makers who share your views, as you know.  That doesn't prove you're wrong; but we all know this fall isn't going to proceed as though COVID-19 doesn't warrant significant policy changes at schools all over the country.   

Dunno why, but I suddenly began to miss the cherry tree we had at our old house in Northern California. We'd send the boys out back to go cherry-picking and enjoy the heck out them pretty much the whole month of June.

Guess the elephant came out and changed the focus of the conversation again

Now it’s just a room of my own. 

So now I am picturing Virginia Woolf, riding an elephant, inside a room.  Vivid image.

Chico Escuelo,

Post of the week!

For me, the elephant in the room is how absolutely pathetic our nation has responded to this threat.  Bill Gates has called the US response "embarrassing", and I agree with him.   Are we not the greatest nation on earth?  We're certainly not showing it. 

Here's the deal.   In general, older people are at risk of dying with this virus.   In general young people aren't wearing masks, spreading the virus and putting others at risk.   Something tells me nothing is going to change when they get to college in the Fall.  They are perpetuating the virus which is now putting their higher education experience at risk.   We're going around in circles, and it all comes back to younger folks not wearing masks in social settings or not taking the virus seriously.   If we want to stabilize our situation and slow this thing down in time to develop a vaccine, EVERYBODY has to wear masks, self-quarantine when needed, and social distance.   So, far young people (in general) have not shown the discipline to do this, and it is eventually coming back to bit them indirectly in the a$$ because their college experience is going to be less than it could be if this thing was under control.

JMO.    

I’d have to agree, TPM. 

Is the pachyderm writing a novel?

Or is it a letter to her favorite aunt, Mrs. Dalloway, who is lonely in Orlando, longing not only for her room at her former home in the lighthouse, hard on the banks of the River Ouse, where it meets the sea, but longing also for her three guinea pigs (Julia, Leslie, and Stella) and Hogarth, her cocker spaniel, (who, it must be said, loved nothing more than playing in the waves, flush with excitement), and, finally, also longing for the call of the utrumque valet arguer:  LUDERE PILA! IPSA VITA!!

But I digress. 

fenway, AMEN!

@fenwaysouth posted:

For me, the elephant in the room is how absolutely pathetic our nation has responded to this threat.  Bill Gates has called the US response "embarrassing", and I agree with him.   Are we not the greatest nation on earth?  We're certainly not showing it. 

Here's the deal.   In general, older people are at risk of dying with this virus.   In general young people aren't wearing masks, spreading the virus and putting others at risk.   Something tells me nothing is going to change when they get to college in the Fall.  They are perpetuating the virus which is now putting their higher education experience at risk.   We're going around in circles, and it all comes back to younger folks not wearing masks in social settings or not taking the virus seriously.   If we want to stabilize our situation and slow this thing down in time to develop a vaccine, EVERYBODY has to wear masks, self-quarantine when needed, and social distance.   So, far young people (in general) have not shown the discipline to do this, and it is eventually coming back to bit them indirectly in the a$$ because their college experience is going to be less than it could be if this thing was under control.

JMO.    

You are 100% correct on all points. College bound should get used to it, they will have to wear masks.

If the parent isn't wearing a mask, the kids won't wear the mask.  

Watching VP with Governor Abbot, he actually said, WEAR A MASK.

@smokeminside posted:

I’d have to agree, TPM. 

Is the pachyderm writing a novel?

Or is it a letter to her favorite aunt, Mrs. Dalloway, who is lonely in Orlando, longing not only for her room at her former home in the lighthouse, hard on the banks of the River Ouse, where it meets the sea, but longing also for her three guinea pigs (Julia, Leslie, and Stella) and Hogarth, her cocker spaniel, (who, it must be said, loved nothing more than playing in the waves, flush with excitement), and, finally, also longing for the call of the utrumque valet arguer:  LUDERE PILA! IPSA VITA!!

But I digress. 

Wait, wait -- Virginia Woolf, in a room of her own, with an elephant?    (But I admit, I like the classic version of Clue better than the modernist edition...)

"In America there is baseball instead of society," but this spring we had neither.  

@smokeminside posted:

I’d have to agree, TPM. 

Is the pachyderm writing a novel?

Or is it a letter to her favorite aunt, Mrs. Dalloway, who is lonely in Orlando, longing not only for her room at her former home in the lighthouse, hard on the banks of the River Ouse, where it meets the sea, but longing also for her three guinea pigs (Julia, Leslie, and Stella) and Hogarth, her cocker spaniel, (who, it must be said, loved nothing more than playing in the waves, flush with excitement), and, finally, also longing for the call of the utrumque valet arguer:  LUDERE PILA! IPSA VITA!!

But I digress. 

That's too deep for me on a Sunday afternoon!

We way too over-indexed on fear.  Fauci has been wrong almost every step of the way.  COVID is not going anywhere.  If you are at risk stay home, if not go back to your life.  We need herd immunity, lot's of data masks do or don't work.  Let these kids pursue their dreams very selfish for an older person to put unnecessary restrictions on them.  ALL schools / universities should be open in the Fall.  Stop watching the news.

@fenwaysouth posted:

For me, the elephant in the room is how absolutely pathetic our nation has responded to this threat.  Bill Gates has called the US response "embarrassing", and I agree with him.   Are we not the greatest nation on earth?  We're certainly not showing it. 

Here's the deal.   In general, older people are at risk of dying with this virus.   In general young people aren't wearing masks, spreading the virus and putting others at risk.   Something tells me nothing is going to change when they get to college in the Fall.  They are perpetuating the virus which is now putting their higher education experience at risk.   We're going around in circles, and it all comes back to younger folks not wearing masks in social settings or not taking the virus seriously.   If we want to stabilize our situation and slow this thing down in time to develop a vaccine, EVERYBODY has to wear masks, self-quarantine when needed, and social distance.   So, far young people (in general) have not shown the discipline to do this, and it is eventually coming back to bit them indirectly in the a$$ because their college experience is going to be less than it could be if this thing was under control.

JMO.    

This is a great post. I'd like to add, that while some here, in the greatest country in the world, have given up to the point they're saying "we're all going to get it", somehow in the large majority of industrialized nations the spread of the virus has been stopped or greatly slowed. So are Americans and our leaders just that selfish, ignorant, and stupid that WE can't stop a virus that 95% of the world has been able to stop? Is that how low we've sunk?

@RossGA posted:

We way too over-indexed on fear.  Fauci has been wrong almost every step of the way.  COVID is not going anywhere.  If you are at risk stay home, if not go back to your life.  We need herd immunity, lot's of data masks do or don't work.  Let these kids pursue their dreams very selfish for an older person to put unnecessary restrictions on them.  ALL schools / universities should be open in the Fall.  Stop watching the news.

RossGA, I will sign on when you show me the plan that keeps young people from encountering older folks (and those merely vulnerable, of whom their are many) in grocery and drug stores, doctor's and dentist's offices, in their homes, and other places.  Not to mention the college staff and faculty who will have to interact with them.  Young people (who are getting severely ill in some cases, too) live in the same society as the rest of us.

It's also noteworthy that medical personnel for college and professional sports teams are not taking the position that infections among those young, healthy populations aren't serious.  I ran across this tweet today from a sports columnist in Toledo:

https://mobile.twitter.com/DBr.../1276630756740272135  

Sorry to post two in a row, but I think it's worth giving the link to the Toledo Blade article and not just the author's tweet.  Here is a link from the article to an interview with an epidemiologist from Emory U.:

“There are a few things to worry about here. Even if these players don’t get sick at all, you’re still creating a vector, another way for the virus to spread, and it could spread to older coaches, older athletic staff, older family members. What if somebody goes home to visit grandma and they didn’t know they were sick because they were young and asymptomatic? You’re still creating this risk and it’s not just for the players. When you deal with an infectious disease, your personal choices are never just your personal choices.

“Also it’s important to understand that while most young people seem to recover fine, there is still a lot we don’t know about the virus. Even in asymptomatic cases, we’re starting to see lung damage and potential other long-term organ damage that didn’t make itself known immediately. There’s the possibility that these young men and women who are elite athletes in peak physical shape, even a small degradation of that could be career altering. This isn’t just, ‘Hey, nobody died. No blood, no foul.’ It’s a lot more complicated than that.”

https://www.toledoblade.com/sp.../stories/20200626081

Good article Chico thanks, and thanks for your first post.

Well, they closed down the bars in South Florida and Miami Dade and Broward, shut down the beaches for fourth of July. Our Governor is wearing a mask. I guess someone freaked out because the main goal here is to get everyone back to school.

I heard something today and I believe it. Young adults 18-34 are getting sick. But not going to get tested, they don't want to do the 14 day quarantine.

People say that they should be able to live their lives. Thats ok,  but live it responsibly,  don't do it at someone else's expense.

you all can bitch as much as you want but the ship has sailed. The world has to move forward, it is in the process of moving forward and nothing any of us say or feel it is going to stop it from moving forward. Pray you aren't dramatically effected by the 1% or most likely less who are not going to make it...simple truths. 

old_school, I don’t pretend to know what the future holds, but the proverbial “ship” you mention doesn’t sail in only one direction. It’s now going backwards in TX and FL, in neutral in NC, the U of Houston has halted all athletics activities, the Phillies shut down their spring training facility in Dunedin, (do I need to go on?...)

@Chico Escuela posted:

old_school, I don’t pretend to know what the future holds, but the proverbial “ship” you mention doesn’t sail in only one direction. It’s now going backwards in TX and FL, in neutral in NC, the U of Houston has halted all athletics activities, the Phillies shut down their spring training facility in Dunedin, (do I need to go on?...)

No, you do not need to go on and on...... You might as well change your screen name to Chicovid19 Escuela as it is. 

@Chico Escuela posted:

One of the things I most like about this site is that the discussions may involve strong disagreements strongly expressed, but they are almost always civil.  Then there are your posts...

Gee, why might I be thinking a lot about a global pandemic that has upended all of our lives, and about the fact my only two children are both planning to be in college this fall?  Truly a deep mystery.  Also strange that others seem interested in these questions, too.  

You asked if you should go on and on. So I answered. 

I've deleted my prior two comments.  I don't want to get into the back-and-forth.  Adbono, I apologize for my tone.  I also think your earlier post was snarky and didn't add to the discussion here.  

And I'm out.

@Chico Escuela posted:

Understood.  You were just contributing to the conversation with your usual insight and wit.  

Yes, I try to confine my posts to subjects that I know something about.

@Chico Escuela posted:

I've deleted my prior two comments.  I don't want to get into the back-and-forth.  Adbono, I apologize for my tone.  I also think your earlier post was snarky and didn't add to the discussion here.  

And I'm out.

No worries 

@RJM posted:

Does Southern New Hampshire University have online baseball too? There probably wasn’t a college more prepared for shifting to remote learning. They have 3,000 on campus and 80,000 online students. Maybe the baseball team could play Strat-O-Matic online.

Hmmm. Now I have to research to see if I have any eligibility left.

@Iowamom23 posted:

So what's frightening is this — when bars in Iowa opened my daughter's friends decided to go out drinking. She is living at home and very adament about her social distancing and declined. Her roommate at school told her later that a group of about 10 went out. A week later about seven had tested positive. Come to find out the girl who organized the outing had tested positive and knew it when she got the group together.

How do you fix stupid????? And just rude?

🤬

@Chico Escuela posted:

What do the young and (almost) invincible owe to others?  Seems to me there is some ideal point (somewhere...) between living one's life as if your choices have no consequences for others and staying in your parents' basement for up to 2 years+.  Students on campus will interact with staff and faculty who are older.  Students will leave campus at times (if nothing else, to go home to parents who are presumably at least middle-aged).  These actions will affect others.  I don't know what the right balance is...

I do believe very strongly that the lengthy plans schools are issuing are mostly wishful thinking.  (Actually, I'd use a word less polite than "wishful thinking," but let's go with that term.)  I teach at a state U and am very familiar with my school's plans and those of a few other schools.  Most faculty I know at whatever institution--people who deal with college kids regularly--think that once students get to campus, they will do essentially whatever they want.  But the recent experience of FL, TX, and other states suggests this is also going to be true if those same kids stay home.  

I also think that colleges will almost inevitably see some kids (and maybe employees) hospitalized, a few schools will see some deaths.  Parents (and possibly students) probably won't react well to that, and a lot of finger-pointing and second-guessing will ensue. Some universities will have to seriously consider sending students home again.  (Should they?  I have almost given up having an opinion...)

So maybe the plans are put in place to protect the financial interest of the university, more so than to “protect” students from disease

Regarding Fauci, I wouldn't be upset if we never heard from him again. He has contradicted himself and has been putting advice out only to say the opposite a week later.

I'm really surprised at the amount of elderly I see out and about and travelling by air. I agree the younger population needs to do more, but the old folks should bare some of the blame here too. We can't keep putting out all these restrictions on people to protect the elderly when they aren't doing all they can to protect themselves. 

@TerribleBPthrower posted:

Regarding Fauci, I wouldn't be upset if we never heard from him again. He has contradicted himself and has been putting advice out only to say the opposite a week later.

I'm really surprised at the amount of elderly I see out and about and travelling by air. I agree the younger population needs to do more, but the old folks should bare some of the blame here too. We can't keep putting out all these restrictions on people to protect the elderly when they aren't doing all they can to protect themselves. 

Fauci has been a government administrator for twenty-five years. I doubt he’s examined anything but paperwork in that time. While not elected he’s become a politician.

Regardless of outcome the COVID situation should be closely examined to see what was done right and wrong to be better prepared if there’s a next time. I don’t believe Fauci would grade out well in an analysis. I’ve gone from watching every presser to see what Fauci and Birx have for new information to snapping ‘STFU” when I see Fauci on the screen.

Of course Fauci is a politician.  He is in a position where he has access to a lot of information and has a huge amount of knowledge and experience, and has to work with/for a government with its own agenda.  He has made it pretty clear what he thinks, but he can't say some of it openly, and he refuses to do so, even when pushed by certain media.  To criticize him for that is very unfair.  I really appreciate the job that he is doing in a difficult place.

STFU= Some Thanks For U ?

@TerribleBPthrower posted:

Regarding Fauci, I wouldn't be upset if we never heard from him again. He has contradicted himself and has been putting advice out only to say the opposite a week later.

I'm really surprised at the amount of elderly I see out and about and travelling by air. I agree the younger population needs to do more, but the old folks should bare some of the blame here too. We can't keep putting out all these restrictions on people to protect the elderly when they aren't doing all they can to protect themselves. 

You'd have to point me to any instances where he's contradicted himself a week later because I don't know of any.

My favorite Fauci thing was when he said it would be OK for strangers to hook up on Tinder as long as they tried to be safe, while also earlier telling the nation we can never shake hands again. Come on. 

If you're referring to his comments in Vanity Fair, you're completely mischaracterizing them.

@roothog66 posted:

You'd have to point me to any instances where he's contradicted himself a week later because I don't know of any.

Agree.. I've found him to be more spot on than any other public figure throughout the process.  The only (sort of) contradiction I've heard/seen is where he said the public does not need to wear masks.  But if you followed that statement in it's entirety and considered context, it was said at that time when healthcare workers and essential workers were desperately short of PPE and he stated that they were priority for masks at that point in time.  

Keep in mind, also, that Fauci has conceded all along the way that this was a new pandemic, a moving target with many unknowns and results could vary greatly depending on the extent of measures taken (and enforcement) in efforts to minimize the number of casualties and severe illness.

What amazes me is how straight forward and composed he has remained knowing he is undoubtedly operating under tremendous pressure from very high places to suppress the information and put a more positive spin on it.

@smokeminside posted:

STFU= Some Thanks For U ?

It starts with “shut the ....”

@TerribleBPthrower posted:

 

I'm really surprised at the amount of elderly I see out and about and travelling by air. I agree the younger population needs to do more, but the old folks should bare some of the blame here too. We can't keep putting out all these restrictions on people to protect the elderly when they aren't doing all they can to protect themselves. 

You are joking right? Some of these elderly folks don't want their golden years spent inside. They have the same rights as the millennium do.

Here in Florida, ages 20-35 are the ones testing positive.  IMO there are a lot that age walking around with COVID. They may feel sick for a few days but won't go get tested. They don't stay within their circle of friends.  And the don't wear masks.

I agree about Fauci. It's a tight rope that he has to work on and he does it well.  I hope that they continue the updates without you know who. 

All I know is that our Governor is finally wearing a mask, same for the VP.

Just some thoughts from someone who is going crazy each day thinking about this pandemic and how, if it ever will, end. I have no bias, just looking for that guidance or piece of information that is trust worthy. I will go wherever there is hope and positive outlook on the situation.

As much as I would love to think that people would do whatever is necessary to help with this virus, comments I hear, stuff I read, I just don't have any faith that we can come together as a nation to get anything done. Too much bickering and arguing and one side always having to be right instead of coming together for the greater good. 

Partisan politics was already an issue in the country. The pandemic has just made it even worse. One side saying this is all a ploy to control the vote for the November election. And I don't even know how your opinion on wearing a mask tells which side you are on. This governor is doing this because he is on this side, that governor is doing this because she is on that side. I hate politics and I cringe every time a conversation about the virus turns into a political debate. The political side of this is all very exhausting. The whole "we are giving up our freedoms" argument is another statement that is presented during these discussions. 

The lack of unified information or reliable information has also contributed to the divide in the country and how people are viewing and handling the pandemic. I still think that one of the worst things that happened was when Faucci said masks aren't necessary. Then that got turned around to wearing a mask. So the argument for the non mask wearers is Faucci wouldn't have said that if masks actually worked. Also, recently when the WHO came out and said asymptomatic people don't really spread the virus and then the the next day it was a "just kidding". Now people are arguing that the WHO wouldn't have said anything about asymptomatic people if there wasn't some truth behind it. The statement of the CDC website that says the virus does not easily spread from touching surfaces or objects, but yet we are calling for handshakes to be banished from eternity. It just feels like for every statement or "fact" that is presented to us, another organization or outlet tells us a different view. So at this point no one knows who or what to believe and people are going by what they believe or what makes them comfortable, wither it be the right or wrong approach.

Agree that the younger population is not taking this as serious as they should. I witness this first hand almost every day. The lady next door moved out of her house and left the house to her recent high school graduate son and his friends. Since she moved out it has turned into a frat house. 10-20 kids there at any given time partying it up. 

I just don't know where we go from here. We will never get everyone on the same page. We are too far of a divided country right now. It was bad before the pandemic hit and it has even gotten worse over the past few months with all the events that has taken place.

I used to believe that there was a way to get our arms around this virus but I am starting to think it is just an uphill battle. All the schools coming back with large groups of student athletes testing positive, NBA has over 5% in their initial round of tests, high profile tennis players, and now it seems like the virus is starting to make it's way through the PGA Tour. I imagine when MLB gets around to testing we are going to see a pretty decent number of players test positive. I start to ponder is if the only way this thing goes away until it goes through so much of the population that we build heard immunity. I don't want to believe that, but it's hard not to. 

I was listening to a radio show the other day and they summed it up with "we are on our own". I am starting to believe this more and more each day. I long for the day I can sit in a ballpark and yuck it up with the guy sitting next to me who gets up for a beer or food every inning and takes my arm rest leaving me with arms down by my side or sitting forward the whole game. That sounds a little like heaven right now. LOL. 

In that early March 60 minutes interview, Fauci said: “Right now in the United States people should not be walking around with masks … You should think of healthcare providers who are needing them and the people who are ill.” This was at a time when there was a serious shortage of masks for healthcare workers.

Since at least April 2020, the CDC recommended that everyone wear cloth masks in public to help slow the spread of COVID-19. That recommendation changed because of studies that found even people without coronavirus symptoms, but who may still have the disease, could transmit the virus through close interactions with others, especially through speaking, coughing, and sneezing: 

In light of this new evidence, CDC recommends wearing cloth face coverings in public settings where other social distancing measures are difficult to maintain (e.g., grocery stores and pharmacies) … 

Advise changes as information changes, as it should, but to try and paint Fauci's early March statement as one that declared masks were NOT a defense or NOT needed takes the conversation out of context. 

@roothog66 posted:

In that early March 60 minutes interview, Fauci said: “Right now in the United States people should not be walking around with masks … You should think of healthcare providers who are needing them and the people who are ill.” This was at a time when there was a serious shortage of masks for healthcare workers.

Since at least April 2020, the CDC recommended that everyone wear cloth masks in public to help slow the spread of COVID-19. That recommendation changed because of studies that found even people without coronavirus symptoms, but who may still have the disease, could transmit the virus through close interactions with others, especially through speaking, coughing, and sneezing: 

In light of this new evidence, CDC recommends wearing cloth face coverings in public settings where other social distancing measures are difficult to maintain (e.g., grocery stores and pharmacies) … 

 

Advise changes as information changes, as it should, but to try and paint Fauci's early March statement as one that declared masks were NOT a defense or NOT needed takes the conversation out of context. 

Agree with this. Agree that as this virus rolls on, we learn more about it and ways to combat it. But there are people who don't feel that way. It's almost playground "no take backs". 

I stopped going on my Twitter account for awhile because I got tired of the arguing. If someone said the sky was blue, there would be an argument somewhere that we only think that because we were told the sky should be blue. Mind numbing. And the landscape on Twitter is exactly why I feel that we will never be able to come together as a whole to fight this thing on a unified front. 

Hi Arceku21, can I offer a more positive spin on what you have said?

I am not troubled by the fact that leaders keep changing what they say.  No-one knew anything about this virus, and the situation keeps changing.  I would be more worried if they all kept saying the same thing over and over.  The political stuff is troubling, but if elected leaders who formerly did not push masks now do so, I say, good for them.  I am heartened that intelligent people can take new information and admit that they are changing their minds.  It makes me think that they really do want to do what is best for the people they serve.

Every day there is new science; I am encouraged that so many scientists, around the world, are working night and day on this problem.  We haven't seen anything like it before.

I am distressed by young people acting like idiots, but I'm not a young person.  My children are not as isolated as they could be.  I get it; they genuinely don't think there is much risk for them.  Most don't have much to look forward to in the near future.  I don't know what else we can do for them.  Secretly, everyone wants to get the virus, have it asymptomatically, and recover, because they they won't have to worry any more.

I think that this virus was an opportunity to unite the country, and now people are saying it didn't happen.  I am encouraged that polls show that most people do agree about certain things, regardless of what politicians and the media promote.  I blame the media on all sides, as well as social media.  However, I think that most people, now, are starting to wise up about just how much the media, and social media, are dividing the country.  Maybe we will decide that we can do without some of it. 

Not HSBBW, though!

Here is a big part of the problem. Not enough adequate testing and case tracing.  

People that have had the virus and didn't protect themselves afterwards are becoming ill again.  Do not assume you cant get it twice.

A doctor in Houston explained that the virus  has shown itself in so many different ways.  It's hard to keep up with it. 

@anotherparent posted:

Hi Arceku21, can I offer a more positive spin on what you have said?

I am not troubled by the fact that leaders keep changing what they say.  No-one knew anything about this virus, and the situation keeps changing.  I would be more worried if they all kept saying the same thing over and over.  The political stuff is troubling, but if elected leaders who formerly did not push masks now do so, I say, good for them.  I am heartened that intelligent people can take new information and admit that they are changing their minds.  It makes me think that they really do want to do what is best for the people they serve.

Every day there is new science; I am encouraged that so many scientists, around the world, are working night and day on this problem.  We haven't seen anything like it before.

I am distressed by young people acting like idiots, but I'm not a young person.  My children are not as isolated as they could be.  I get it; they genuinely don't think there is much risk for them.  Most don't have much to look forward to in the near future.  I don't know what else we can do for them.  Secretly, everyone wants to get the virus, have it asymptomatically, and recover, because they they won't have to worry any more.

I think that this virus was an opportunity to unite the country, and now people are saying it didn't happen.  I am encouraged that polls show that most people do agree about certain things, regardless of what politicians and the media promote.  I blame the media on all sides, as well as social media.  However, I think that most people, now, are starting to wise up about just how much the media, and social media, are dividing the country.  Maybe we will decide that we can do without some of it. 

Not HSBBW, though!

Spot on post. Can’t say I agree with some of your posts, but I do respect your opinions and consider your point of view. You’ve  hit the nail on the head here. A divided country and sensational headlines equals better ratings and profits. 

As long as we're talking about random things - how's the whether in your neck of the woods?

A big part of the problem is many older people, 50 plus, who have been told this is a pandemic. They expect the world to stop because for them it seems like the safest thing but the world can't and wont stop. Younger generations have never stopped nor will they stop. The fact that we slowed down to crawl for this long is amazing, our younger generations have been awesome....yes I said that they have been AWESOME.

Suck it up, protect yourself or don't it is your damn choice and back to living. Ignore the media because they lie, ignore Fauci because he couldn't give a straight honest response if his life depended on it, ignore the WHO because they don't say or do anything without approval from Gates and China...use your damn head. But stop whining and crying about young people - WE, US the older generation have screwed them harder then any generation in history they would be right to tell us to F off. 

Give me an S!

Give me a T!

Give me an F!

Give me a U!

Give me another F!

Give me an HSBBW!

Give me a C!

Give me an O!

Give me a V, an I, and a D!

Give me an LOL!

Give me a TX, an FL, and an NC, too , eh?!

Give me an OK, an IMO, and a VP, as well!

Give me an MLB, an NBA, and a PGA!

Not to mention the CDC and the WHO!

Don't forget RMJ, and JCG, TPM, TBPT, and JF!

What's that spell?!

FUTS IF I NO!

@old_school posted:

A big part of the problem is many older people, 50 plus, who have been told this is a pandemic. They expect the world to stop because for them it seems like the safest thing but the world can't and wont stop. Younger generations have never stopped nor will they stop. The fact that we slowed down to crawl for this long is amazing, our younger generations have been awesome....yes I said that they have been AWESOME.

Suck it up, protect yourself or don't it is your damn choice and back to living. Ignore the media because they lie, ignore Fauci because he couldn't give a straight honest response if his life depended on it, ignore the WHO because they don't say or do anything without approval from Gates and China...use your damn head. But stop whining and crying about young people - WE, US the older generation have screwed them harder then any generation in history they would be right to tell us to F off. 

Great post.  Again something went really wrong in NYC and surrounding areas.  We need to figure out what that was and not emulate it.  But we need to stop talking about the "whole country" as if it is all the same.   In places like FL and TX, that are giving in to political pressure due to increased positive tests, thIs has become a political and legal risk issue, not a medical health issue.

In TX and FL this is not as bad as flu season of 2018, that is fact.  Some counties in some states are having trouble, but most are not.  For comparison here is CDC data through 6/13 showing excess deaths(anything above the yellow line with a +) in FL, TX, and NYC.  What we should be saying is "WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED IN NYC? LETS NOT DO THAT!"

Either masks work or they don’t. If you’re requiring them because they stop the spread then reopen everything. If they don’t work then the mandates are BS. Pick a narrative and stick to it.

smokeinside, LMAO! 

@DesertDuck posted:

Either masks work or they don’t. If you’re requiring them because they stop the spread then reopen everything. If they don’t work then the mandates are BS. Pick a narrative and stick to it.

Because if masks don't reduce transmission of the virus by 100%, then they are useless?  DD, we disagree about a lot of things, but I give you more credit than that.

@Chico Escuela posted:

Because if masks don't reduce transmission of the virus by 100%, then they are useless?  DD, we disagree about a lot of things, but I give you more credit than that.

Agreed, we don't agree on much. And, I give you more credit than to infer assumptions where they don't exist.

@DesertDuck posted:

Either masks work or they don’t. If you’re requiring them because they stop the spread then reopen everything. If they don’t work then the mandates are BS. Pick a narrative and stick to it.

No, it's not that.  It's that the science has moved forward, really fast, after the start of the outbreak.  Earlier studies have now shown not to be relevant.  There are new discoveries.  If you are a politician, either you man up (why are they all men?) and say, "at one time we thought this, but now we have more science and we know differently" or you sheepishly mutter "oh, o.k., let's all wear masks now, so my state doesn't get a bigger disaster that they blame on me."   Which will get you more public trust?

Reopen everything?  Next time people are wearing masks in a bar will be a first.  I agree, reopen everything where people can/will wear masks.  Keep the rest closed.

@Pedaldad posted:

Great post.  Again something went really wrong in NYC and surrounding areas.  We need to figure out what that was and not emulate it.  But we need to stop talking about the "whole country" as if it is all the same.   In places like FL and TX, that are giving in to political pressure due to increased positive tests, thIs has become a political and legal risk issue, not a medical health issue.

In TX and FL this is not as bad as flu season of 2018, that is fact.  Some counties in some states are having trouble, but most are not.  For comparison here is CDC data through 6/13 showing excess deaths(anything above the yellow line with a +) in FL, TX, and NYC.  What we should be saying is "WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED IN NYC? LETS NOT DO THAT!"

New York, NJ and CT put COVID + seniors back into senior living/nursing homes.  It was 40% of deaths.  I also have to assume that the virus got to NYC earlier than other major metropolitan areas.  The spread was easy due to the heavy use of subways and buses for commuters.  That made the issue much worse.  We have people in our office taking antibody tests now and as expected 5 have the antibodies, certainly more do but have not tested yet.  Unfortunately or fortunately I am negative for antibodies.  We suspected it hit our desk before testing was available.  We sent everyone home the first week of March, it was in my office in mid-Feb for sure.   Lastly Gottlieb this am estimates 25% of NY have had coronavirus at this point - another study from 4/19 shows at that point 20% had the virus.   It just got to NY quicker, spread due to how people commute, and some policies that were not in the best interest (please let's not have a political discussion on who's fault the senior issue was).

@DesertDuck posted:

Agreed, we don't agree on much. And, I give you more credit than to infer assumptions where they don't exist.

From your earlier post:  "Either masks work or they don’t. If you’re requiring them because they stop the spread then reopen everything. If they don’t work then the mandates are BS."  I don't see room in that sentence for the possibility that masks reduce transmission of the virus, but don't stop it (and therefore don't make it safe to reopen completely.)  But if that's what you meant, then why not wear a mask?

Let's assume it's unclear whether masks reduce C-19 transmission.  If a mask might help prevent you from unknowingly infecting another person, why wouldn't you wear one?  It's 90+ degrees and humid where I live--masks are uncomfortable and fog my glasses.  I also am quite hard of hearing, and masks make it extremely tough to understand speech.  In short, masks are a pain in the rear.  I wear one anyway (and now NC requires it). 

For those who may be interested, here is a demonstration of masks' (imperfect, but helpful) ability to prevent transmission of some types of microorganisms.  It is a demonstration, not a controlled study, and it does not directly consider COVID, but it's illustrative.   

https://twitter.com/richdavisp.../1276629360212979712  

As this thread started about fear of not having a 2021 spring sport season, I'm concerned about the trend MLBers opting out of the season is setting.  I don't know if they are leveraging the pandemic or truly scared little ignoramuses. I apologize ahead of time to any ignorumeses offended by the politically incorrect language. 

But really? Afraid of the "personal health and safety" risks for going to work as a baseball player in an empty stadium?  WTF?  We have hospital staff, grocery store employees, and all other walks of life going to work every day, interacting with people in much more direct ways,  and many would love to come home and watch a baseball game at the end of a day. 

This is disturbing.

Totally agree GMac. The mass transit was key to the spread. OS has a lot of good points also. I think at this point its good hygiene, masks, social distancing when you can and older generation stay away from the rest of us. The numbers OVERALL show us where and who this affects the most and who will die most likely when getting it. The younger generation has taken a beating for the older generation, I’d like to see them be smarter about things( maybe not have giant beach parties or congregate in bars right now) but the majority of us need to move forward. Zero transmission or cases as an expectation  is silly, a vaccine most likely with be 75% effective at best and we have therapeutics to help hospitalization numbers. Be accountable, act intelligently, use common sense and we can begin to get back to something that resembles where we once were but will never totally get back to.

Pedal, Obviously you don't get that MLBers are protected by MLB Players Union. MLBPA must negotiate with team owners. Team owners are only interested in their bottom line. They aren't interested in health of the players who are the reason they make anything in the first place! Teams can write off losses.

Players are reporting tomorrow. Testing, testing, & more testing of everyone...clubbies, coaches, equipment personnel, front office, trainers, etc, etc, etc. You have no clue of what all is involved in addition to the players.  Players are taking substantial paycuts as it is. Phillies have already reported 12 players as positive...We'll see in the next few days how widespread it is. At this point, I stand with players & MLBPA. Boils down to risk-reward. (And protections for players). 

JMO

There are so many false positives and varied ways of reporting (mixing results from antibody tests with Covid tests, probably cases mixed with actual cases)  if this many people REALLY do have it, we are in great shape since the death rate is down.  MLB players should count their blessings and play ball.  There are a ton of guys out there that aren't getting to, and would in a second.

@baseballhs posted:

There are so many false positives and varied ways of reporting (mixing results from antibody tests with Covid tests, probably cases mixed with actual cases)  if this many people REALLY do have it, we are in great shape since the death rate is down.  MLB players should count their blessings and play ball.  There are a ton of guys out there that aren't getting to, and would in a second.

First, there aren't "so many false positives." The anti-body test, which determines if you HAD it in the past, is flawed and has a lot of false negatives, but there have been no reports of rampant false positives for covid-19 tests. 

Second, yes the death rate is down, but the infection rate is way up.  Increases and decreases in death rates generally trail the same in infection rates by 20-30 days. People don't start showing symptoms and then die the next day - it takes weeks. 

Before anyone argues that we're only seeing an increase in infections because of an increase in testing. Yes, that's true. However, note that the percentage of positives is also increasing with more tests. The only thing that more testing=more positive cases means is that we were most likely UNDER-REPORTING the number of infections early in the pandemic. If we had tested more earlier, we would have found a LOT more cases.

Personally, if I have to go a season without baseball to help insure that NEXT baseball season doesn't have to endure this sh*&sow, I'm OK with that.

@roothog66 posted:

First, there aren't "so many false positives." The anti-body test, which determines if you HAD it in the past, is flawed and has a lot of false negatives, but there have been no reports of rampant false positives for covid-19 tests. 

Second, yes the death rate is down, but the infection rate is way up.  Increases and decreases in death rates generally trail the same in infection rates by 20-30 days. People don't start showing symptoms and then die the next day - it takes weeks. 

Before anyone argues that we're only seeing an increase in infections because of an increase in testing. Yes, that's true. However, note that the percentage of positives is also increasing with more tests. The only thing that more testing=more positive cases means is that we were most likely UNDER-REPORTING the number of infections early in the pandemic. If we had tested more earlier, we would have found a LOT more cases.

Personally, if I have to go a season without baseball to help insure that NEXT baseball season doesn't have to endure this sh*&sow, I'm OK with that.

Why would next season be any different from this season if very few people get infected between now and then? Do you think a vaccine will be available? Or perhaps you think the virus will disappear?

@ABSORBER posted:

Why would next season be any different from this season if very few people get infected between now and then? Do you think a vaccine will be available? Or perhaps you think the virus will disappear?

If you look at countries that took social distancing and wearing masks FAR more so than we do, you'll see a trend. A vaccination by then is definitely a possibility. I'm not as optimistic as the president seems to be on that, but it's definitely in the cards. If you get a vaccine by say, February, it will help going forward and if you have a low number of infections at the time, you will likely not have to take a lot more preventative steps. However, if you have a large number of infections in January or February, any vaccine only starts helping in early summer and you'd need drastic measures again to hold infections down while a vaccine is implemented. So, the better we do at slowing this down NOW, the better off we are if a vaccine comes around in early 2021.

Something I haven't seen addressed is how do people feel about all of the rule experimentation that accompanies a 2020 season?

@roothog66 posted:

If you look at countries that took social distancing and wearing masks FAR more so than we do, you'll see a trend. A vaccination by then is definitely a possibility. I'm not as optimistic as the president seems to be on that, but it's definitely in the cards. If you get a vaccine by say, February, it will help going forward and if you have a low number of infections at the time, you will likely not have to take a lot more preventative steps. However, if you have a large number of infections in January or February, any vaccine only starts helping in early summer and you'd need drastic measures again to hold infections down while a vaccine is implemented. So, the better we do at slowing this down NOW, the better off we are if a vaccine comes around in early 2021.

Something I haven't seen addressed is how do people feel about all of the rule experimentation that accompanies a 2020 season?

The world has never had an RNA based vaccine, and it is not from lack of trying.  The parameters to get one approved in the US have been laid out.  It requires it to be at least 50% more effective than placebo in preventing illness in large randomized, controlled trials. Our annual flu vaccines fluctuate between about 20 and 60% effectiveness and haven't hit 50% since 2013.

We are more likely talking years, not weeks or months to achieve that. 

Pedaldad, without revealing your identity, would you please share your professional credentials?  As CoVid arguments swill in these posts it's hard to keep track of whose opinions are based on experience and education and whose are not.   I don't mean to suggest that I don't value the opinions of  non-medical or science posters here - I do value the opinions of many such posters highly. But professional background is another data point to consider, especially when scientific assertions are made.

@roothog66 posted:

If you look at countries that took social distancing and wearing masks FAR more so than we do, you'll see a trend. A vaccination by then is definitely a possibility. I'm not as optimistic as the president seems to be on that, but it's definitely in the cards. If you get a vaccine by say, February, it will help going forward and if you have a low number of infections at the time, you will likely not have to take a lot more preventative steps. However, if you have a large number of infections in January or February, any vaccine only starts helping in early summer and you'd need drastic measures again to hold infections down while a vaccine is implemented. So, the better we do at slowing this down NOW, the better off we are if a vaccine comes around in early 2021.

Something I haven't seen addressed is how do people feel about all of the rule experimentation that accompanies a 2020 season?

Are you arguing playing baseball will have any impact on this?  Frankly, I doubt it, but I am glad that the players can choose to opt out of they want to. 

Yes, wearing masks and taking social distancing more seriously would have helped, but people (especially young ones) have decided that they don't give a rip.  The only thing we could do to slow the spread would be to force people with the rule of law.

@Chico Escuela posted:

From your earlier post:  "Either masks work or they don’t. If you’re requiring them because they stop the spread then reopen everything. If they don’t work then the mandates are BS."  I don't see room in that sentence for the possibility that masks reduce transmission of the virus, but don't stop it (and therefore don't make it safe to reopen completely.)  But if that's what you meant, then why not wear a mask?

Let's assume it's unclear whether masks reduce C-19 transmission.  If a mask might help prevent you from unknowingly infecting another person, why wouldn't you wear one?  It's 90+ degrees and humid where I live--masks are uncomfortable and fog my glasses.  I also am quite hard of hearing, and masks make it extremely tough to understand speech.  In short, masks are a pain in the rear.  I wear one anyway (and now NC requires it). 

For those who may be interested, here is a demonstration of masks' (imperfect, but helpful) ability to prevent transmission of some types of microorganisms.  It is a demonstration, not a controlled study, and it does not directly consider COVID, but it's illustrative.   

https://twitter.com/richdavisp.../1276629360212979712  

Thanks for that illustration. I saw a few on TV and wow, how gross. 

For those interested, and I have posted before, I live in one of the 3 counties in FL where cases are way up. 15,045 total cases, as of yesterday 425 new cases, 382 deaths. Out of 1.953 million they have only tested 193, 471. They have very few testing sights although the labs, CVS and Walgreens have drive though testing. I also will repeat that we have a whole generation of young folks walking around with Covid, that won't get tested or wear a mask.

Why is this happening in the 3 counties? Some people will say because we are the most liberal, that has nothing to do with it.  Because we have businesses that broke the rules set out by the  counties.and no one was watching as the counties were opening up.  And young people who do not care. They are sick and bringing it home to others. And our Governor never gave a mask order like other states did. He did a photo OP with Pence at a restaurant and no one had masks on.  Finally Senator Rubio broke ranks and said wear the damn mask, too late.

Governor Cuomo went off the rails last week because there was a cluster of reported cases in one area. Apparently a graduate came to Florida and brought back COVID and attended a graduation party. But NY is better at case tracing. 

Just another example of shear stupidity. So Governor Cuomo will not allow anyone from Florida to enter NY, not that we want to go, but we don't want anyone coming to our state unless they live here.  Disney will be opening soon. 

I am fortunate that where I live masks are required and social distancing is required in the few places I have been. I had to go to a lab yesterday as I had to last week as well and I was in and out in 2 minutes. 

For those that don't know I am a young senior. I am so sick and tired of people saying seniors have to stay home so they don't get sick and let the young folks live their lives. Well hell, I am doing my part, you do yours, and that includes wearing a mask and not hanging out shoulder to shoulder face to face in a bar!  

So if we want to come together, we have to respect one another, I don't need to see statistics about not wearing a mask. I don't needs to see stats regarding a mask. We know it helps to slow transition.  If you don't want to wear a mask, STAY HOME.  How 's that?

I am very happy to see more folks on capital hill wearing masks.  It's about time our President stop acting like a child and wear a mask. This will help bring us together.  

I know some won't agree with me, that's ok.  But I feel so much better.

@Viking0 posted:

Are you arguing playing baseball will have any impact on this?  Frankly, I doubt it, but I am glad that the players can choose to opt out of they want to. 

Yes, wearing masks and taking social distancing more seriously would have helped, but people (especially young ones) have decided that they don't give a rip.  The only thing we could do to slow the spread would be to force people with the rule of law.

@Viking0 posted:

Are you arguing playing baseball will have any impact on this?  Frankly, I doubt it, but I am glad that the players can choose to opt out of they want to. 

Yes, wearing masks and taking social distancing more seriously would have helped, but people (especially young ones) have decided that they don't give a rip.  The only thing we could do to slow the spread would be to force people with the rule of law.

Therein lies the rub. Given the attitudes toward social measures, if you're talking ONLY MLB baseball without fans, you're most likely correct that, viewed in isolation, it wouldn't have that much affect. I take into account, however, the message it gives - that everything is going to return to normal, nothing to worry about. I miss sports, but, in the long run, are they really THAT important? 

We are lucky that SARS never really took hold in the US or we would have been screwed. SARS was eradicated without a vaccine because, while they expedited procedures to try and develop one, places where it had spread widely took social precautions seriously to the point where it petered out. Now, THIS virus is a bit more hardy, but the idea we should just say fu%$ it alarms me. 

Do I EXPECT a virus soon? No. The most likely scenario is that it will take years, not months - if we get one at all. However, the American attitude to this is uniquely troubling (with the possible exception of Brazil). If the question is "should we be doing x, y and z in terms of social measures?" the answer is yes. Will we? I doubt it. I think if we continue along this path, next year will only be worse and you might have to count out spectator sports for a couple of years.

@JCG posted:

Pedaldad, without revealing your identity, would you please share your professional credentials?  As CoVid arguments swill in these posts it's hard to keep track of whose opinions are based on experience and education and whose are not.   I don't mean to suggest that I don't value the opinions of  non-medical or science posters here - I do value the opinions of many such posters highly. But professional background is another data point to consider, especially when scientific assertions are made.

Sure, I am a physician/surgeon in one of our country's largest medical institutions.  I  have been there a decade, and practicing since 2002.   In addition to my medical degree, I hold Bachelor of Science degrees in chemistry, biology, and a Master's in Orthopaedic Biomechanics.

Thanks.

On a slightly lighter note... 

Over the course of four days, this past Friday through yesterday, I had to deal with a particular doctor's office, dropping off and picking up a family member Friday and then returning to pick up medication Monday.  It was, by far, the most strict enforcement of Covid precautions I have experienced to date.  The patient was clearly not dealing with Covid - more of a routine check up. 

I had to call when I arrived in the parking lot to arrange drop off.  I was instructed to help the patient into a sort of quarantined holding room, then leave and seal the door closed behind me, and then one of the fully protected medical staff members would clear the patient and take them into an isolated room for assessment.  The doctor called me while I waited in the parking lot to review the findings and discuss course of action.  Then, the same procedure was followed with the exit, only out of a totally separate "exit/discharge" holding room on the other side of the building.  

When picking up the medication yesterday, I went through much of the same where I had to call in that I was in the parking lot.  The meds were then left in a sealed box on the exterior of the building for me to access.  I had to call back to assure I received the package and was clear of the area.

The patient was my dog.  I was at the vet's office. 

Cabbage, my vet has been doing likewise since early April.

(The human docs I have dealt with are behaving similarly. It’s almost as though they think something serious is going on...)

Same way here. My grand dog coming here for a week so daughter had him groomed. The drill is that you are not allowed to enter and must pay over the phone. And you have to wait in the car until they bring him out.

Same way with the vetenarian.  Overall everyone is very careful here and businesses have done a great job of being compliant. So has my community. 

“fu%$”

!!!!!!

Roothog, you had me at “f”, not to mention “x, y, and z”!

@Chico Escuela posted:

Cabbage, my vet has been doing likewise since early April.

(The human docs I have dealt with are behaving similarly. It’s almost as though they think something serious is going on...)

For sure... just struck me as kinda funny that it was far more stringent than the practices going on in places I've been where humans are the main focus... stores, restaurants, chiropractor, work office, etc.  Most are taking reasonable measures, just not nearly to that extent.

How anyone views the situation will be impacted by their location. A cousin is a doctor of immunology in the NYC area. His wife, also a doctor caught COVID badly enough to spend a night in the hospital under observation with an extremely high temperature. His name was on a petition for a complete lock down of the country. 

I left the Boston area for my second home in Maine. I had just been made aware 95 of the first 100 COVID cases were traced back to a conference I had lunch across the street. I figured Maine doesn’t have international travel during mud season. I thought Maine might only need to slow down and distance rather than shut down. I was wrong. The governor treated the state and talked like Maine is NYC. What did surprise me was the effect the fear mongering by the governor and the local media had on people from reading the comments under news articles.

I’m 65, fit and in excellent health. I weigh less than I did as a college athlete. I’m not as bulked up. Given not one healthy person in Maine has died (of 105 out of a 1,344,000 pop) I’m not real concerned. Only one employee at all the grocery stores in the state caught COVID. Masks weren’t mandated until the state started opening up. I noticed the last time I went to the grocery store there wasn’t a employee tracking how many shoppers were in the store. 

I haven’t worn a mask anywhere except when an older person politely asked me to put one on. I ignore the COVID Nazis. I’ve been out to lunch or dinner with friends seven times over the past month. None of us have worn masks except when required to pass the hostess/reservation station. All the dining has been outdoors even though inside dining has returned.

I have been in three COVID trace lines. In all three of my contacts was a parent of an early 20’s adult kid who visited their parents for dinner. The kids likely caught COVID due to being in bars and clubs. The parents tested negative.

The big change now is the death rate is diminishing across the country. It’s younger people who are getting COVID from getting back in social environments. While it’s not a positive to get COVID we now know keep at risk people away from those who are taking risks.

Another issue I haven’t seen in the news is if people isolate for three months their immune system as a whole diminishes making them more vulnerable to any virus or disease. We’re more vulnerable now than three months ago. We live in a dirty, diseased world. Normal, every day life maintains our immune system. I’ve always been a little phobic about how and where I touch doors to open. Who knows if the last person who touched the door handle was picking his ass an half hour ago.

I’ve been in no rush to get back to Boston. I live fifteen miles outside the city. I’m going for the first time since mid March in a couple of days. Without access to Boston entertainment I prefer to be in Maine for day to day life.  

(Haven’t stayed in a Holiday Inn Express in the past year)

Declining death rates is very good news. Increasing hospitalization numbers, not so much (and hospitalizations will lag the recent increases in positive tests).  

I am a compulsive reader of news. And outside of social media and some political rallies, I don’t see the same ideas many folks express here that the nation’s reaction is overblown. So far as I can see, the great majority of governors, public health officials and other decision makers sound more concerned than a lot of people commenting here.  States, not the federal government, are the primary actors, and governors in the south and southwest seem fairly alarmed by recent trends.  All due respect—and you may be proven right—but that seems to be the situation on the ground. 

Even if you don't like Fauci, did you at least notice that he was wearing a Washington Nationals mask today?

If you want to know what's really happening in TX

https://twitter.com/AlexBerens...773122301804546?s=19

Ignore Berenson if you want, but he did get the person to go on the record with his name and credentials. It's stuff like this that isn't getting reported. What a shame

@anotherparent posted:

Even if you don't like Fauci, did you at least notice that he was wearing a Washington Nationals mask today?

I did.  I also noticed that he and Redfield both reached their hands to their respective faces to take it off everytime they answered a question.  Then they rested their hands on the table in front of them.  This happened repeatedly and is not the ideal use of a mask, but typical with what most lay people do.  In surgery, if we screw up touch our mask, we have to de-glove, de-gown, go scrub and start all over again.  Technically speaking, they contaminated everything around them.  Them wearing masks in this manner is pure dog and pony show.  FWIW.