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9 replies

Error on 9-3 putout attempt

V vistaeaglefanMember
I've been scoring games ever since I was a kid and it seems you see something new or learn something from an odd play all the time.

I was scoring our varsity team's game when a ball was hit to shallow right field, approximately 50' past the bag. The right fielder was playing in and grabbed the ball on one hop and fired to first in an attempt to get a not so fast runner. Had the ball been on target, the runner would've been out by 2 or three steps. However, the throw sailed over the top of the outstretched glove of the firstbaseman.

I scored this an E-9 on the throw.

I was recently confronted by the father of the rightfielder, who is also a JV coach at the school we were playing against (another story) and he was irate that I scored an error against his kid. He said that a ball hit into the outfield is a hit unless dropped by the fielder and since the runner didn't advance to 2nd, there was no error because a 9-3 putout "is not an expected play".

I countered that while I'd agree it is not expected, it was a play none the less and that had the throw been on target, that the runner would have easily been out. I further tried to explain that it wasn't a throw from the fence that required extraordinary ability but rather a simple one hopper from no further distance than that made by a secondbaseman shaded toward center.

Any thoughts...
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S SSSawyer10+ posts
I think you're right on this one. It's not expected but I've scored my share of 8-3's and 7-4's. If your outfielder has a canon and he can beat the runner, it's possible. If the throw would have beat the runner but was just off target, gotta say that's an error. Hopefully that E won't discourage the kid from attempting it next time, though.
Midlo DadMidlo Dad10,000+ posts
The key is whether the play should've been made with "ordinary effort."

That is inherently a judgment call.

From the perspective of the hitter, if a ball I strike lands in the outfield grass, I'm expecting to be credited a hit unless they do in fact get me out. So I can see where dad was coming from.

But while you don't normally put out a guy with "ordinary effort", it sounds like the RF played in specifically with an eye towards making exactly this type of play -- to the point that the out could/should have been made with ordinary effort. A varsity player ought to be able to throw a ball 50' with accuracy, after all.

So I think you have sound reasoning for your decision. As an exercise of discretion, I probably would've given the kid a hit. Probably the only time I'd do an error on that play would be if the throw were made and clearly on time but the 1B just plain dropped the throw. But that's just my personal preference, it doesn't have to be yours.
J jfsbndr10+ posts
good call vista. the key here is that it is your judgement that determines if the batter would have been out or not.

If there was extrodinary effort by the right fielder to gather and throw the ball then it would be a single with no error assigned (unless something else that caused a runner to advance occured).

If no "extrodinary" effort was used by the outfielder then it would have been scored 9-3 instead of TE9.
JMoffJMoff1,000+ posts
This is a tricky call.

I agree with ordinary effort and all the discussion related to it, but is a 9-3 really an ordinary effort play?

It doesn't happen very often.

I tend to agree with Midlo Dad's discussion, but I've held the pencil a long time on this play before making the call in the past. I think unless the first baseman drops the ball, I score a hit...

Maybe I'm tainted by girls softball where they try this all the time.

There isn't a wrong answer, however. It's your call and none of us were there, so it's up to what you think.
J jfsbndr10+ posts
Here's my perspective. My son is a right fielder and during his high school seasons his team actually practiced this because of his speed and arm strength. I suppose this is why I wouldn't give the benefit of the doubt to the hitter and score it as a single. But the only call that matters is what the scorekeeper sees and decides.
J jfsbndr10+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Midlo Dad:
Here's how most teams answer this problem:

Is our team batting, or fielding?

Smile


Short and sweet. That covers it exactly. (BTW Vista - take what parents say with a grain of salt. They always want the best outcome for their kid. Most times all you can do is listen. Stick to your decisions but try to ask 3rd parties their thoughts then go from there. In this case I believe you did the right thing no matter what parents think - they don't understand the rules as well as some scorekeepers).
TurnTwoNetTurnTwoNet100+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Midlo Dad:
Here's how most teams answer this problem:

Is our team batting, or fielding?

Smile


Or possibly...

Is my kid pitching? Which player do I want to look better?

Luckily, our guy asks others if he has a question. He asked me a question earlier this year on a play my son was involved in and I told him that, while I didn't see the play, I would never provide input one way or the other on my son's plays since I didn't want to influence the decisions. FYI, I was watching another player with long camera lens, so really didn't see it!

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