Exit Velocity

Again, I think a weeding out tool.  My son's exit velo has been 89-90 since before sophomore year and his bat speed and other diamond kinetic measurements are 97%tile plus and he has never been recruited as a hitter.  They never even let him hit at invitation showcases.  It is a whole package they are looking for, the hitting measurable I think help them decide who to  look at in person maybe.

Tim Turner posted:

Yes I’m quite familiar with Earl Weaver....I’ll leave this here  for the night...my son,  Josh Turner is 15 years old.  He’s a good ball player that runs the 60 in 6.6 seconds, throws 85 mph on his fastball with really nice off speed pitches.  He just hit a 370 ft homerun  to the opposite field a couple weeks ago and has a strong throwing arm from the outfield.  I want him to improve every time he sets foot on the field and during practice.  Hopefully he’ll get a chance to play in college...and from there who knows.  I really enjoy everyone’s input and opinions.

Here is some input. You may or may not enjoy it.  Its pretty hard to be an effective speaker if you don't know your audience. Since you are new on this board, here is some background info on the members (your audience).  Some on this board are moms & dads of kids that played HS, college & pro ball. They have valuable knowledge based on whatever experience their sons had. Some of us are former college & pro players. We have valuable knowledge based on the experiences that we had. Some of us are HS coaches, college coaches, and professional instructors. We know how to teach the game.  Some founded companies that support the development of the sport of baseball. There are many on this board that are influential in the game of baseball at the college & pro level. There is one thing that we have in common - we are all proud of our sons and what they have accomplished. Everyone on this board could brag about their kid if they wanted to and in some cases it would be damned impressive. But IMO that isn't what this board is about.  Besides, we have all seen kids that were (or we thought were) phenoms at 15 years old. I suggest you tap the brakes and figure out how to use this board to help advance your son.  A 15 year old kid's measurables don't mean very much. Measurables aren't a true indication of a kid's ability to play the game. Coaches recruit (and scouts draft) based on what they see with their own eyes - not what they read or what they watch on video. 

Yes, and once again, I totally agree with what you are saying.  It doesn’t matter at all what someone’s measurable are...if they can’t hit an off speed pitch or throw a strike  then  chances are they won’t even make it to college.  I’m not simply bragging on my son....he had a tough summer throwing strikes on the mound.  He was overthrowing at times, flying open with his front shoulder etc.    he’s definitely not perfect on the baseball diamond.  Is he a phenom?  I think he’s a good ball player....but he’s 15 so I hardly think he’s a phenom as some people describe it.  I truly enjoy talking baseball especially with a sophomore baseball player in the family.  Also look forward to reading the posts on the different forums that I can use in the future especially going into the whole recruiting process.  Glad to have found this website.

Tim Turner posted:

I never said velocity measurements win games.  What they do is give coaches and scouts a baseline measurement of what a player can potentially do on the field.  Why would scouts reduce fly balls hit by metal bats by 40 feet when they use those metal bats in college?  I don’t think so

I can guarantee they reduce them by at least 40 feet.  My high schooler will hit his metal 40-60 feet further than wood and he hit wood over 400 this weekend at showcase.  Plus ball doesn't get off the bat near as fast with wood as metal.  It is only a number like velocity but the difference is you can ultimately teach a thrower to pitch even if he has to drop velo, you can't teach a kid who swings a bat fast to hit as easily.  I have seen guys who knew nothing about playing baseball get very high exit velo.  You never see a kid who can't play step on a mound and throw 95.

Tim,

Welcome to the board. FWIW, I didn’t interpret you posting your son’s measurables as bragging. Thanks for sharing them. We need more proud parents to sharing their stories, IMO.

 

I have a 2021 as well. Adbono, while a bit direct, did provide a good lay of the land here. Unfortunately, I think some words got put in your mouth for you. It’s a message board....it’s just the way it goes sometimes.

The posters previously referenced are (BTW, all of this info is on this site buried in threads somewhere. I don’t want anyone to think I’m outing anyone):

Consultant (Bob) - Founder of Area code games

Kyle Boddy - Driveline

PGStaff (Jerry Ford) - Perfect Game

 Adbono is a former college player (according to his profile). 

There’s also just a bunch of us, like me, who are parents trying to help their sons navigate this process.

Anyway, good luck to you and welcome.

Tim you did nothing wrong.  And I am mystified at this idea BY SOME that numbers are more or less irrelevant.  Crazy.  Exit velo most certainly is important.  Hard to believe in this day of information anyone would even hint that it's not.  And certainly for pitchers if a kid is throwing 90+ I don't care if he walks the line up somebody is giving him a deal.  Exit velo is no different than 60 times.  Of your exit velocity is 78 not a single coach in America cares that you hit line drives against weak high school pitchers.   And if you can't hit your way out of a wet paper bag then your 6.5 60 hours time gets you a track scholarship!!   On the other hand if you have a 7.8 60 time you better reply really mash beyond belief.  There are certain qualifiers and non qualifiers.  That's just the way it is.  Another thing that made me spit out my Mountain Dew was someone saying nobody cares about. 15 yo's measurables...   in this day and age of early recruitment...   I am sure I must have misunderstood that.  Numbers matter.  Period. 

I think they are for sure recruiting 15 year olds, and I think the numbers matter, they just aren't everything.  They help narrow things down.  Things have also changed with measurables, in that, there are just a lot more kids with great numbers.  Maybe there always were, but now you can pull them all up on a website within a few seconds and sort them however you want.

What I said was "a 15 year olds measurable don't mean a lot."  And they don't.  He is 15 and hasn't played one inning of HS Varsity baseball yet.  Lets see if the measurable translate to the game field. There will be a much better sample size a year from now.  The Mountain Dew explains a lot. 

2020dad posted:

Tim you did nothing wrong.  And I am mystified at this idea BY SOME that numbers are more or less irrelevant.  Crazy.  Exit velo most certainly is important.  Hard to believe in this day of information anyone would even hint that it's not.  And certainly for pitchers if a kid is throwing 90+ I don't care if he walks the line up somebody is giving him a deal.  Exit velo is no different than 60 times.  Of your exit velocity is 78 not a single coach in America cares that you hit line drives against weak high school pitchers.   And if you can't hit your way out of a wet paper bag then your 6.5 60 hours time gets you a track scholarship!!   On the other hand if you have a 7.8 60 time you better reply really mash beyond belief.  There are certain qualifiers and non qualifiers.  That's just the way it is.  Another thing that made me spit out my Mountain Dew was someone saying nobody cares about. 15 yo's measurables...   in this day and age of early recruitment...   I am sure I must have misunderstood that.  Numbers matter.  Period. 

A 6.5 sixty won’t bring a track scholarship.  It wouldn’t extrapolate to a 100 or 200 time that would put him on the B relay team in the 4x100 or 4x200 in our high school.

When kids are running 4.35 to 4.5 forties they’re moving faster than a 6.5 sixty. We had some seriously fast backs and receivers in high school. Some were better in track. They didn’t have the hands, moves or balance for football. The ones that did went P5.

I don’t believe anywhere in my post that I said my son didn’t play an inning of high school ball.  He actually started every game on his varsity baseball team.  So obviously that means that his coach saw something beyond the measurable that allowed my son to earn a spot in centerfield.  He’s not a one trick pony..he backs up the numbers with his play on the field.

Tim Turner posted:

I don’t believe anywhere in my post that I said my son didn’t play an inning of high school ball.  He actually started every game on his varsity baseball team.  So obviously that means that his coach saw something beyond the measurable that allowed my son to earn a spot in centerfield.  He’s not a one trick pony..he backs up the numbers with his play on the field.

No you didn’t say that. That was my assumption.  My bad.  If a kid can compete with kids that are 2 & 3 years older that goes a long way towards getting people’s attention. 

RJM posted:
2020dad posted:

Tim you did nothing wrong.  And I am mystified at this idea BY SOME that numbers are more or less irrelevant.  Crazy.  Exit velo most certainly is important.  Hard to believe in this day of information anyone would even hint that it's not.  And certainly for pitchers if a kid is throwing 90+ I don't care if he walks the line up somebody is giving him a deal.  Exit velo is no different than 60 times.  Of your exit velocity is 78 not a single coach in America cares that you hit line drives against weak high school pitchers.   And if you can't hit your way out of a wet paper bag then your 6.5 60 hours time gets you a track scholarship!!   On the other hand if you have a 7.8 60 time you better reply really mash beyond belief.  There are certain qualifiers and non qualifiers.  That's just the way it is.  Another thing that made me spit out my Mountain Dew was someone saying nobody cares about. 15 yo's measurables...   in this day and age of early recruitment...   I am sure I must have misunderstood that.  Numbers matter.  Period. 

A 6.5 sixty won’t bring a track scholarship.  It wouldn’t extrapolate to a 100 or 200 time that would put him on the B relay team in the 4x100 or 4x200 in our high school.

When kids are running 4.35 to 4.5 forties they’re moving faster than a 6.5 sixty. We had some seriously fast backs and receivers in high school. Some were better in track. They didn’t have the hands, moves or balance for football. The ones that did went P5.

Apparently your B relay team has a bunch of sub-11 second 100 meter dash guys. A 6.5 sixty is roughly equivalent to a 4.5 forty, maybe a tick over, which is really fast. About a 10.95 hundred meter dash, give or take.

Here's an estimator of splits: https://xnation.wordpress.com/...3/31/60-yard-splits/

and a conversion of 40 yard time to 100 meters:

https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/c...lated_to_100_sprint/

I agree with Adbono, a 15 year olds numbers are relatively insignificant unless they are off the charts, which makes the kid an outlier. Those kids are on the radars of the big boys already at age 14-15. If this kid is not already being recruited by several P5 D1 schools, then we know that perhaps there may be more to the story or he needs more exposure.

FWIW, Tim, I am as described by Adbono, one of the dads who has helped guide his player to his goal, and I can honestly say that not a single coach when the talks got serious were talking about his measurables. They already had seen him play, talked to people who they trust about his abilities, and then decided after meeting my kid he was the kind of player he wanted for his program. The coach will decide if he can play against the competition his program sees regularly, and that is the main factor he addresses. Will he help my program win? Will he be eligible? Will he make my program better, be a good teammate and representative of my program and school? If so, then it may be a fit. The one measurable the coach did talk to my son about: GPA and ACT scores.

Adbono has provided me with a lot of valuable advice over the time I have known him and I would take stock in what he offers you. 

That’s the reason I came to these forums is to get advice and also offer what knowledge I have such as it is.  I welcome any and all advice.  I agree that he does need a bit more exposure.  He has had offers to play on two different teams this offseason,  but we are extremely loyal to his current coaches because they are excellent coaches who have put thousands of hours into his development over the past several years.  Even when his pitching coach was advised by his doctor not to drive because of severe medical issues, he ignored those orders and drive to the batting cages to work with my son.  I won’t take him to a different team because the “grass might be greener” over there.  He loves his coaches and I’d put them up against just about anyone as far as knowledge of the game.

2019Dad posted:
RJM posted:
2020dad posted:

Tim you did nothing wrong.  And I am mystified at this idea BY SOME that numbers are more or less irrelevant.  Crazy.  Exit velo most certainly is important.  Hard to believe in this day of information anyone would even hint that it's not.  And certainly for pitchers if a kid is throwing 90+ I don't care if he walks the line up somebody is giving him a deal.  Exit velo is no different than 60 times.  Of your exit velocity is 78 not a single coach in America cares that you hit line drives against weak high school pitchers.   And if you can't hit your way out of a wet paper bag then your 6.5 60 hours time gets you a track scholarship!!   On the other hand if you have a 7.8 60 time you better reply really mash beyond belief.  There are certain qualifiers and non qualifiers.  That's just the way it is.  Another thing that made me spit out my Mountain Dew was someone saying nobody cares about. 15 yo's measurables...   in this day and age of early recruitment...   I am sure I must have misunderstood that.  Numbers matter.  Period. 

A 6.5 sixty won’t bring a track scholarship.  It wouldn’t extrapolate to a 100 or 200 time that would put him on the B relay team in the 4x100 or 4x200 in our high school.

When kids are running 4.35 to 4.5 forties they’re moving faster than a 6.5 sixty. We had some seriously fast backs and receivers in high school. Some were better in track. They didn’t have the hands, moves or balance for football. The ones that did went P5.

Apparently your B relay team has a bunch of sub-11 second 100 meter dash guys. A 6.5 sixty is roughly equivalent to a 4.5 forty, maybe a tick over, which is really fast. About a 10.95 hundred meter dash, give or take.

Here's an estimator of splits: https://xnation.wordpress.com/...3/31/60-yard-splits/

and a conversion of 40 yard time to 100 meters:

https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/c...lated_to_100_sprint/

4.55 is not 4.5. In track .05 is a significant difference. My son ran a 6.55. He joked he wasn’t fast enough for the track team. 

RJM posted:
2019Dad posted:
RJM posted:
2020dad posted:

Tim you did nothing wrong.  And I am mystified at this idea BY SOME that numbers are more or less irrelevant.  Crazy.  Exit velo most certainly is important.  Hard to believe in this day of information anyone would even hint that it's not.  And certainly for pitchers if a kid is throwing 90+ I don't care if he walks the line up somebody is giving him a deal.  Exit velo is no different than 60 times.  Of your exit velocity is 78 not a single coach in America cares that you hit line drives against weak high school pitchers.   And if you can't hit your way out of a wet paper bag then your 6.5 60 hours time gets you a track scholarship!!   On the other hand if you have a 7.8 60 time you better reply really mash beyond belief.  There are certain qualifiers and non qualifiers.  That's just the way it is.  Another thing that made me spit out my Mountain Dew was someone saying nobody cares about. 15 yo's measurables...   in this day and age of early recruitment...   I am sure I must have misunderstood that.  Numbers matter.  Period. 

A 6.5 sixty won’t bring a track scholarship.  It wouldn’t extrapolate to a 100 or 200 time that would put him on the B relay team in the 4x100 or 4x200 in our high school.

When kids are running 4.35 to 4.5 forties they’re moving faster than a 6.5 sixty. We had some seriously fast backs and receivers in high school. Some were better in track. They didn’t have the hands, moves or balance for football. The ones that did went P5.

Apparently your B relay team has a bunch of sub-11 second 100 meter dash guys. A 6.5 sixty is roughly equivalent to a 4.5 forty, maybe a tick over, which is really fast. About a 10.95 hundred meter dash, give or take.

Here's an estimator of splits: https://xnation.wordpress.com/...3/31/60-yard-splits/

and a conversion of 40 yard time to 100 meters:

https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/c...lated_to_100_sprint/

4.55 is not 4.5. In track .05 is a significant difference. My son ran a 6.55. He joked he wasn’t fast enough for the track team. 

The conversion is a 6.5 sixty is about equal to a 10.95 (the intermediate conversion of a 6.51 sixty = 4.55 forty is irrelevant to whether a 6.5 sixty would extrapolate to a 100 or 200 time that would put him on the B relay team at your high school). Your B team did not have sub 11-second 100 meter guys. In fact, I would be willing to bet that the A team didn't have four of those guys, either. A 10.95 100 meters would be in within the range necessary for a D2 track scholarship. 2020dad was correct.

This issue will continue to evolve as we search for whatever metrics we think the scouts and recruiters are looking for.

I don’t travel in the circles many of you seem to travel in, but my quick reply from a MLB scout was: “yeah yeah can these kids hit or not.”

”This exit velo stuff is exciting to see with the tracker on TV, but I need to know the kid has the potential to hit gaps, spray the ball, and please have some speed.”

 

2019Dad posted:
RJM posted:
2019Dad posted:
RJM posted:
2020dad posted:

Tim you did nothing wrong.  And I am mystified at this idea BY SOME that numbers are more or less irrelevant.  Crazy.  Exit velo most certainly is important.  Hard to believe in this day of information anyone would even hint that it's not.  And certainly for pitchers if a kid is throwing 90+ I don't care if he walks the line up somebody is giving him a deal.  Exit velo is no different than 60 times.  Of your exit velocity is 78 not a single coach in America cares that you hit line drives against weak high school pitchers.   And if you can't hit your way out of a wet paper bag then your 6.5 60 hours time gets you a track scholarship!!   On the other hand if you have a 7.8 60 time you better reply really mash beyond belief.  There are certain qualifiers and non qualifiers.  That's just the way it is.  Another thing that made me spit out my Mountain Dew was someone saying nobody cares about. 15 yo's measurables...   in this day and age of early recruitment...   I am sure I must have misunderstood that.  Numbers matter.  Period. 

A 6.5 sixty won’t bring a track scholarship.  It wouldn’t extrapolate to a 100 or 200 time that would put him on the B relay team in the 4x100 or 4x200 in our high school.

When kids are running 4.35 to 4.5 forties they’re moving faster than a 6.5 sixty. We had some seriously fast backs and receivers in high school. Some were better in track. They didn’t have the hands, moves or balance for football. The ones that did went P5.

Apparently your B relay team has a bunch of sub-11 second 100 meter dash guys. A 6.5 sixty is roughly equivalent to a 4.5 forty, maybe a tick over, which is really fast. About a 10.95 hundred meter dash, give or take.

Here's an estimator of splits: https://xnation.wordpress.com/...3/31/60-yard-splits/

and a conversion of 40 yard time to 100 meters:

https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/c...lated_to_100_sprint/

4.55 is not 4.5. In track .05 is a significant difference. My son ran a 6.55. He joked he wasn’t fast enough for the track team. 

The conversion is a 6.5 sixty is about equal to a 10.95 (the intermediate conversion of a 6.51 sixty = 4.55 forty is irrelevant to whether a 6.5 sixty would extrapolate to a 100 or 200 time that would put him on the B relay team at your high school). Your B team did not have sub 11-second 100 meter guys. In fact, I would be willing to bet that the A team didn't have four of those guys, either. A 10.95 100 meters would be in within the range necessary for a D2 track scholarship. 2020dad was correct.

I wasn’t thinking about D2. Those aren’t the fastest sprinters. I’ve believe we’ve strayed far enough from ball. I doubt many people on this board are looking for alternatives to failing at baseball.

BaseballBUDDY posted:

This issue will continue to evolve as we search for whatever metrics we think the scouts and recruiters are looking for.

I don’t travel in the circles many of you seem to travel in, but my quick reply from a MLB scout was: “yeah yeah can these kids hit or not.”

”This exit velo stuff is exciting to see with the tracker on TV, but I need to know the kid has the potential to hit gaps, spray the ball, and please have some speed.”

 

Metrics draw attention. Decisions on position players are made on whether or not the player can hit. If a player is recruited to be the 30-35th player on the roster and a long shot to play how many people call it success? Getting an offer and being on the roster freshman year is just an opportunity. It’s when the real challenge starts. 

RJM posted:
BaseballBUDDY posted:

This issue will continue to evolve as we search for whatever metrics we think the scouts and recruiters are looking for.

I don’t travel in the circles many of you seem to travel in, but my quick reply from a MLB scout was: “yeah yeah can these kids hit or not.”

”This exit velo stuff is exciting to see with the tracker on TV, but I need to know the kid has the potential to hit gaps, spray the ball, and please have some speed.”

 

Metrics draw attention. Decisions on position players are made on whether or not the player can hit. If a player is recruited to be the 30-35th player on the roster and a long shot to play how many people call it success? Getting an offer and being on the roster freshman year is just an opportunity. It’s when the real challenge starts. 

Preach, brother! We know from the transfer rate that there are a good number of kids who actually land at D1s who leave after the Fall semester, then some make the Spring roster only to find out they won’t play the next season and they need to find a new school if they want to play baseball. 

Best advice we ever received from one of my son’s coaches was “getting the offer is one-third of the process. Next you need to get on the spring roster, after that earn playing time.” 

 

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