Expected time commitment -High school Coach

In our area baseball coaches also have other positions at the school, usually associated with FB (football).  The head HS baseball coach is also the head athletic trainer and works with the kids all year on workouts in all sports, but especially FB.  Most of the assistant coaches, including JV and Freshman coach also coach FB.  Pretty much all male assistant coaches of any spring team helps out with FB in the Fall.  Basically, almost like in College, FB helps pay the bills, and many coaches like the extra supplemental income that comes with helping with FB. 

I would say these are very high and unrealistic expectations for a high school coach. Not that it can't be done, the top coaches do this, but to expect this across the board is asking way too much. For a stipend of a few thousand dollars - that is a lot of time to be investing. Unless it is your program and something you plan on being part of for a while, then yes. But a lot of high school coaches are teachers looking to make a few extra bucks during the season. 

Should a HS coach be doing this? If they want to have a successful program - yes. Does a HS coach have to do all this to be successful? No. 

There are good HS coaches out there, don't get me wrong - I know there are many on this board who do the things mentioned. But the truth is a good baseball player doesn't need to be following a detailed plan from his HS coach. He should be working out regularly, playing competitive travel ball, and following a program tailored to his specific baseball needs. For the marginal guys, it can be helpful, but I've seen good coaches who didn't even know what Perfect Game was and bad coaches who did everything mentioned above. I would say this is asking for a lot, even from an A+ HS coach. 

What I expect from my HS coach - win us championships

What I expect from travel coaches and trainers - get me better and to the next level 

I’m guessing the typical high school coach isn’t as committed as the original post’s example. My kids attended a high school with loser softball and baseball programs up until when they arrived. I believe the previous coaches went through the motions. They were glorified baby sitters who tried to keep parents happy.

My kids were fortunate to be coached by new regimes brought in by a new AD. The new coaches came as assistants from established winning programs. The teams went from bottom feeders to conference champions quickly. Now there were pissed off parents who couldn’t control the program and the coaches didn’t care what they thought. 

From what I observed, heard and told directly by the coaches aside from teaching their time was taken up with player development, fundraising, facility improvement and tracking individual academic standing. These were year round issues. In the summer they ran 7-12yo camps to raise money.

With the new coaches the sport went from show up for tryouts to fall ball and winter training, then season. Players were expected to show up the first day of tryouts in mid season form. Tryouts were a formality except maybe the last roster spots at each level.

Being a large high school with sports programs getting off the ground guidance counselors experienced with college prospect athletes were added. While the coaches had some input with college coaches most input and contact came from travel coaches. The high school coaches were asked more about citizenship and keeping up with academics.

Both my kid’s coaches we’re former college players with the goal of becoming a college coach. One made it. The other now owns a baseball academy. He decided having young kids and commitment to rising in coaching didn’t mix well.

@RJM posted:

I’m guessing the typical high school coach isn’t as committed as the original post’s example. My kids attended a high school with loser softball and baseball programs up until when they arrived. I believe the previous coaches went through the motions. They were glorified baby sitters who tried to keep parents happy.

My kids were fortunate to be coached by new regimes brought in by a new AD. The new coaches came as assistants from established winning programs. The teams went from bottom feeders to conference champions quickly. Now there were pissed off parents who couldn’t control the program and the coaches didn’t care what they thought. 

From what I observed, heard and told directly by the coaches aside from teaching their time was taken up with player development, fundraising, facility improvement and tracking individual academic standing. These were year round issues. In the summer they ran 7-12yo camps to raise money.

With the new coaches the sport went from show up for tryouts to fall ball and winter training, then season. Players were expected to show up the first day of tryouts in mid season form. Tryouts were a formality except maybe the last roster spots at each level.

Being a large high school with sports programs getting off the ground guidance counselors experienced with college prospect athletes were added. While the coaches had some input with college coaches most input and contact came from travel coaches. The high school coaches were asked more about citizenship and keeping up with academics.

Both my kid’s coaches we’re former college players with the goal of becoming a college coach. One made it. The other now owns a baseball academy. He decided having young kids and commitment to rising in coaching didn’t mix well.

So better not calculate your hourly wage as a coach, right?

@PABaseball posted:

I would say these are very high and unrealistic expectations for a high school coach. Not that it can't be done, the top coaches do this, but to expect this across the board is asking way too much. For a stipend of a few thousand dollars - that is a lot of time to be investing. Unless it is your program and something you plan on being part of for a while, then yes. But a lot of high school coaches are teachers looking to make a few extra bucks during the season. 

Should a HS coach be doing this? If they want to have a successful program - yes. Does a HS coach have to do all this to be successful? No. 

There are good HS coaches out there, don't get me wrong - I know there are many on this board who do the things mentioned. But the truth is a good baseball player doesn't need to be following a detailed plan from his HS coach. He should be working out regularly, playing competitive travel ball, and following a program tailored to his specific baseball needs. For the marginal guys, it can be helpful, but I've seen good coaches who didn't even know what Perfect Game was and bad coaches who did everything mentioned above. I would say this is asking for a lot, even from an A+ HS coach. 

What I expect from my HS coach - win us championships

What I expect from travel coaches and trainers - get me better and to the next level 

Thank you very much for this reply. This is very good information. What could or should be expected from a stipend coach? My question may have come across as asking way too much from a coach. 

I wanted to put all of that out because the only thing that our coach does is the Feb-May time-frame.

None of the other stuff happens. 

@TN DAD posted:

Thank you very much for this reply. This is very good information. What could or should be expected from a stipend coach? My question may have come across as asking way too much from a coach. 

I wanted to put all of that out because the only thing that our coach does is the Feb-May time-frame.

None of the other stuff happens. 

That is more common than not - speaking from my own experience.  The exceptions tend to be old school guys that have been around a while & young guys on the way up that want to make a name for themselves. We need more of those guys! 

I stepped away a few years ago.  California.  Typical year -

Nov/Dec - conditioning 3 to 5 times/wk, arm ramp up/P pen progressions where applicable, equipment/spirit pack orders, put together staffs for V  and JV, game schedules, some facilities work, coordinate fundraisers, etc..  The conditioning sessions required a fair amount of planning, particularly with limited facilities and fitness equip.  Averaged maybe 15-20 hrs/wk.

Jan/Feb - tryouts, daily practice, separate P pen progressions, grounds/facilities work, parent meeting, team meetings, league meetings, fundraisers, assign and coordinate parent volunteer work (snack bar, van drivers, announcers booth/music, scorekeep, photographer, team dinners, etc.) coordinate community involvement event/s, track and issue equipment, spirit packs, uni's.  Quite a bit of time went into planning each practice to and coordinating between V and JV as necessary to maximize efficiency.  Averaged 30+ hrs/wk.

Mar/Apr/May - practices, games, game prep/planning, grounds/facilites work, team meetings, manage maxpreps/stats, media communication, AD communication, admin reports, PT communication, volunteer communication, occasional parent calls, community events.  Playoffs.  player one-on-one's mapping plans/goals for next year.  Averaged 35+ hrs/wk.

Jun/July/Aug - season wrap - league meetings, team/award dinner, short dead period, some form of summer ball schedule and a tourney or two with separate round of equipment ordering, coordinating umps, transportation.  Typically hosted a tourney to cover summer ball costs.  Averaged 15-20 hrs/wk.

Sept/Oct - take some time, start planning for the next year.  Say hi to my wife and kids, as this was all on top of a regular job.  Just drive down to the field for a "look" once in a while  

More recently, some summer ball has shifted to fall.  I was at a small/medium school where many players were multi-sport, so there was extra coordination and extended tryout periods.  Yeah, I could have done it in less hours but it was necessary if we were to have a quality, competitive program.  Some guys in our area do less.  Many do the same.  You can usually tell as soon as a team takes the field.  Can't blame the guys who do less.  It can be REALLY hard to warrant the very significant time commitment to do it right for the boys, particularly when it is essentially no pay.

So, are you asking as a parent or as someone considering coaching?  

We're in Iowa with summer baseball. I'm pretty sure our coach gets about $600 a year. Here's what our world was.

January — coach is coaching wrestling and teaching third grade. Kids who care are lining up sessions with private coaches, my kid usually did a preseason warmup package with his summer team. HS has a lifting manager who focuses on football, but he would put together programs for baseball.

February — wrestling ends, pitchers and catchers begin light throwing inside. Kids who care step up their private efforts. Lifting continues.

March-April or so — coach gets someone (usually a dad) to put together a summer league to play other schools around the area. Pitch counts are low and strictly monitored. HS coach attends games from time to time. Lifting continues.

May-July — Tryouts, practices, games. State tournament is end of July. Lifting continues

August-January — No official action, but whenever we asked coach turned over the keys to the HS complex so son could shoot video or a group of kids who cared could get together and practice/play. Most serious players go play fall ball. When school started in August, coach would pull kids in for a "if you plan to play baseball next year" meeting and get them started in the weight room.

On the one hand, this put a lot of the weight on the kids and honestly, I think that was a good thing. People knew who was putting in the time and if they weren't, they couldn't complain about lack of playing time.

On the other, despite the low pay and the fact that he's not the best baseball guy in the world, our coach was always there for whatever we asked, including access to facilities and pitching tracking equipment, etc.

We can't put a dollar amount on what he did for my kid.

I say it depends on stipend and expectations from coach and administration.  Parents don’t always have realistic expectations.  They want the coach to work 40 hours a week on baseball for $2000 a year.  Some guys do it because they love it or have other motives like moving up or kids involved.  But I’ve found parents don’t want to raise money to help supplement salaries but want too much and control is one of the things they want. 

We live in a small midwestern state in a city of about 500K-ish if you count the suburbs.  95+% of baseball HCs are teachers.  HS baseball happens in the spring and transitions immediately into Legion ball in the summer.  I sincerely appreciate the coaches time and efforts.  The hourly wage works out to be something awful.  But I am not comfortable calling them coaches.  The best descriptor is "manager."  95% of the actual coaching (individual development and learning) happens outside of the high school HC.  No high school coach around here is taking the time to focus on Johnny 3B's swing mechanics.  Or improving Jimmy P's FB velo or change up.  The HC might throw out some high level feedback here and there, but that's not coaching in my mind.  If focused individual attention is happening, parents are paying good money for private lessons, camps, clinics, etc.   "Select"/travel ball (USSSA) for 8U-14U has devoured and monopolized the area.  I can't count how many peers of my son were getting $50-100/hour private pitching and hitting lessons since the age of 8.  Hell, I knew of a couple of his peers who were seeing sports psychologists at the age of 9.  You can't make this stuff up!  My point is this.  High school coaches don't coach/instruct here because the parents pay to have it done for 10 years before the kid even gets to them.  So you give the high school players some BP and INF and OF warmups and you pretty much call it good.

Up in MN the coaches are not allowed to run practices till late March, hence the dreaded "captain's practices".

Our school is a large public. Good, but not awesome program. The new HS coach has an excellent BB pedigree, and practices will be well run...probably better than most travel programs in the area.  He emphasizes efficiency, with multiple separate groups working on the field at the same time. I do agree that most of the development will be in the off season, and by MNHS rules, the coach must be hands off during that period, so players must fend for themselves.

@cabbagedad posted:

I stepped away a few years ago.  California.  Typical year -

Nov/Dec - conditioning 3 to 5 times/wk, arm ramp up/P pen progressions where applicable, equipment/spirit pack orders, put together staffs for V  and JV, game schedules, some facilities work, coordinate fundraisers, etc..  The conditioning sessions required a fair amount of planning, particularly with limited facilities and fitness equip.  Averaged maybe 15-20 hrs/wk.

Jan/Feb - tryouts, daily practice, separate P pen progressions, grounds/facilities work, parent meeting, team meetings, league meetings, fundraisers, assign and coordinate parent volunteer work (snack bar, van drivers, announcers booth/music, scorekeep, photographer, team dinners, etc.) coordinate community involvement event/s, track and issue equipment, spirit packs, uni's.  Quite a bit of time went into planning each practice to and coordinating between V and JV as necessary to maximize efficiency.  Averaged 30+ hrs/wk.

Mar/Apr/May - practices, games, game prep/planning, grounds/facilites work, team meetings, manage maxpreps/stats, media communication, AD communication, admin reports, PT communication, volunteer communication, occasional parent calls, community events.  Playoffs.  player one-on-one's mapping plans/goals for next year.  Averaged 35+ hrs/wk.

Jun/July/Aug - season wrap - league meetings, team/award dinner, short dead period, some form of summer ball schedule and a tourney or two with separate round of equipment ordering, coordinating umps, transportation.  Typically hosted a tourney to cover summer ball costs.  Averaged 15-20 hrs/wk.

Sept/Oct - take some time, start planning for the next year.  Say hi to my wife and kids, as this was all on top of a regular job.  Just drive down to the field for a "look" once in a while  

More recently, some summer ball has shifted to fall.  I was at a small/medium school where many players were multi-sport, so there was extra coordination and extended tryout periods.  Yeah, I could have done it in less hours but it was necessary if we were to have a quality, competitive program.  Some guys in our area do less.  Many do the same.  You can usually tell as soon as a team takes the field.  Can't blame the guys who do less.  It can be REALLY hard to warrant the very significant time commitment to do it right for the boys, particularly when it is essentially no pay.

So, are you asking as a parent or as someone considering coaching?  

 

Thank you for this time-frame. I am asking for both reasons. As a parent of a child who is part of a "team" but not really a program but also to possibly help change the culture. Our coach just doesn't seem to have any passion for the position.  I'm not the kind to cause conflict but I wanted to get some comps to hopefully help our current coach or at least understand how a successful program is ran.

@TN DAD posted:

Hello all,

I fully expect a coach even at the High School level is "coaching" all of the time in some form or fashion. But what is the expected time commitment from coaches throughout the country? I figured the expected commitment time frame is something like this:

Jan-May coaching and practicing and playing

June- Small break and then field maintenance, facilities upkeep, and promotion, securing donors, camps

July - Same as June but with Dead period, communicate off-season/summer workouts, conditioning

August-December - School starts- volunteer "open cage" after school, communicating with players about expectations, grades, potential college interest, suggest camps, showcases

 

This seems like a full year job and for a passionate person, this is part of the process.

I want to fully understand the commitment from a coaches and parents expectation.

 

Thanks so much!!

I found it interesting that you think that coaching high school baseball is a full time job.  I then wondered if you meant that it is a full time job therefore high school baseball coaches should only have to coach or if you meant that you expect for that position to be full time and above all other positions.   I also found it interesting that you think that one aspect of the job is to do the diamond all summer although that is exactly what I did.  You might find that you run into all types of problems as a coach if you attempt this.  For example, at one point I was barred for getting on any equipment so I bought my own.  You are not allowed to use weed control as a coach and so, my daughter and I pulled weeds all summer.  Eventually, I got the maintenance guys on my side and things became a little easier.  

I coached HS baseball for a very long time.  There is a difference between coaching a team and building a program.  If the goal is to build a program, a coach has to put in the time.  They also have to be constantly learning the game.  They have to become knowledgeable about weight programs, hitting philosophy, pitching philosophy and being a "trainer."  For my first 12 years of coaching baseball, I was the trainer for the team I coached.  

To keep this short, per your list, I did most of that year around.  However, and I know I am different, I didn't seek donors.  That was against school policy.  We had one athletic booster club for all sports.  I was fortunate that I was able to get my high school team into the fundraiser program with the St. Louis Cardinals and so, we generated revenue that way.  I was also fortunate that our summer camps became one of the top camps around.  We would put 100 kids in both the fundamentals and advanced hitting camps.  With the breakdown regarding ages and skill levels, that had me and my staff working long days but doing great work.  In fact, we had other coaches sign up their teams to come to my camps.  Since I didn't take any money from the camps and my coaches agreed to take less than they should have taken, we could put $5,000 into the program every summer.  

Finally, in many places a high school coach can not focus just on their programs.  I was the head coach in two sports for a very long time and in three sports at the same time for a short period of time.  In all, I was the head coach in four different programs.  It was impossible to be everything to everyone.  However, the expectations didn't lessen.  To quote my AD at the time, "We expect to win.  You have one year to turn things around here.  If you don't we'll go a different direction."  We won and became an area power in all of those sports I coached!

Edited to add:  I missed the post about HS coaches not really coaches but managers.  Unfortunately, that seems to be the way HS coaches are being thought of today.  I coached the entire deal.  My assistant coaches coached the entire deal.  I was fortunate that I was allowed to hire all of my assistant coaches so I hired many coaches who had played for me when I was an assistant coach.  They knew my expectations and they had the passion to excel.  They made me look real good.  

@TN DAD posted:

Thank you for this time-frame. I am asking for both reasons. As a parent of a child who is part of a "team" but not really a program but also to possibly help change the culture. Our coach just doesn't seem to have any passion for the position.  I'm not the kind to cause conflict but I wanted to get some comps to hopefully help our current coach or at least understand how a successful program is ran.

I have been thru this three different times myself so I’m not going to sugar coat this. Your current coach doesn’t want your help and you aren’t going to change the culture. It looks like you are setting yourself up for a big disappointment. Try to figure out how to make the best of the situation or find a better situation. Those are your options. HS coaches like Cabbage are a dying breed but there are still some out there. If HS baseball it that important to you, go find one. 

@TN DAD posted:

Thank you for this time-frame. I am asking for both reasons. As a parent of a child who is part of a "team" but not really a program but also to possibly help change the culture. Our coach just doesn't seem to have any passion for the position.  I'm not the kind to cause conflict but I wanted to get some comps to hopefully help our current coach or at least understand how a successful program is ran.

Tn Dad, not knowing more specifics of your particular situation, I'll throw out some more stuff that may or may not apply...

Be aware that many of the duties and responsibilities occur behind the scenes, where you may not be aware of all that he does.  Be aware that there can be significant obstacles with administration, league rules, budget, etc., that can limit a coach in many ways.  Be aware that getting involved with the coaching side can be exponentially more difficult if you are a parent of a player and can cause particular challenges for your son as well.  These can be  overcome but...   Be aware that a HC has to approach things with the best interest of the whole program (sometimes 35-60+ players) in mind, not just one.  So, the parent of one will almost always feel their son isn't getting the individual attention they would like him to get.  Be aware that finding that individual that is all things - well qualified, connects with the players, willing to work for nothing, able to make things fit with his/her existing life and work schedule, willing to make the huge time commitment, willing to deal with administration and parent issues, etc. can be extremely difficult, so be very careful about running off the guy that has already stepped up to do this, albeit perhaps to a lesser extent than you would prefer.  I have seen many very good coaches run off or quit due, largely, to parents not understanding the challenges and restrictions coaches face.  Often, the replacement is far inferior, so be careful what you wish for.  Feel free to PM me if you want to discuss more privately - I may be able to steer you to ways to help and/or accept and make the best of the situation, as Adbono said.

PS - just saw that part of your profile is "new coach" and you reference "...possibly help change the culture" in your post.  I was directly involved in successfully flipping the culture in our program... again, would be happy to provide any help, answer any questions via PM.

Everything that Cabbage said is spot on. To clarify, I was not suggesting that you try to replace your current coach. I was suggesting that you find a different HS for your son to attend (if this issue is that important). 

A bunch of us worked with the coach to procure donated materials and labor for new dugouts, fix the outfield fence and build a two story storage shed and announcers booth for baseball and sftball. 

The the school maintenance union stepped in. it wasn’t free anymore. The free labor was a violation of the union contract. And it took an extra year to get done. The school couldn’t accept free materials from a vendor not on the list. It took until the next school year for those vendors to be approved.

For any parent who thinks they can change the coach and culture, good luck. All you can do is offer to help and do what the coach requests. Nothing will change until the coach trusts you and asks for input, it doesn’t happen overnight.

@TN DAD posted:

Thank you very much for this reply. This is very good information. What could or should be expected from a stipend coach?

What I would expect - nothing. Kids play high school sports as a fun extracurricular to represent their school and play with friends. If his coach showed up for practice at 4:00 on the dot and left at 4:45, but won a state championship, I wouldn't care at all. If he went 5-20 that wouldn't fly.

What I would like to see - 

1. Setting the team up with winter workouts at an indoor facility from Jan 1 - Opening Day (March)

2. Individual coach/player meetings before opening day and exit meetings after the season ends where roles and expectations are defined 

3. Help placing marginal and younger players in travel programs. I think the work with the guys who struggle or don't produce as much is more important than taking care of the studs. The studs are likely studs from travel ball and outside training. It is the kids who don't play summer/fall but could be decent who can help a good team win games they might not be expected to. 

I know mine wanted to be college athletes. They did the work necessary to get to that place, they weren't going to rely on a HS coach for a few months during the year when they were working with people on their own. The truth is they weren't going to be following a HS conditioning program in July when they could have been at the WWBA instead. 

People wonder why there are so many problems with HS ball? You really expect someone making $1800 for the season to go rake a field in July when his team won't be playing there until March. God bless those who are willing to build a program, but the money is often only good enough to motivate someone to do just enough not to get fired. The truth is that the money is in club ball, which is why you see a lot more teacher managers than guys who know what they're doing. These guys do pretty good things, and mine were fortunate to have decent coaches who were looking out for the kids and their best interest, but unfortunately the money just isn't there within the school to entice enough good guys to stick around. 

My son had a great high school coach, a teacher, old school guy, did all of what the OP suggests and what Cabbagedad says.  He was happy to talk about college recruiting, but what he knew was mainly local.  He had a group of long-time assistant coaches, and then also hired young guys each year (usually have 3 teams).  In addition to the above, he ran workouts twice a week in the summer, and since most kids' travel teams were based out of town, all the serious players (i.e. varsity starters) showed up to those practices to get work in.  The serious kids also did a lot of stuff outside of school.  The summer camp was well-run and very popular, and he hired players to work it (they had all gone to it as kids).  With all that, even though almost all players bought into the system, the team was only as good as the players who happened to be playing that year; he would maybe have two  D1 players on the field together every 2 or 3 years.  But I think that most kids felt that they had been given the opportunity to accomplish as much as they could.

@TN DAD posted:

Thank you very much for this reply. This is very good information. What could or should be expected from a stipend coach? My question may have come across as asking way too much from a coach. 

I wanted to put all of that out because the only thing that our coach does is the Feb-May time-frame.

None of the other stuff happens. 

Same at our HS. But it was a blessing. Son had all the other months to get better, with coaching of our choosing, instead of wasting time at a 3 1/2 hour practice, 5 days a week, while getting maybe 6-10 double play reps. He said his legs were tired from standing around. Be careful of what you wish for. 

A lot of BB players also play fall and winter sports such as football, hoops, hockey, Skiing, etc.. Near impossible to get much attendance for a fall practice, and in any event, holding them is against MNHS rules.

Expectations for coaches here are ridiculously high, especially given the pay. 

@adbono posted:

I have been thru this three different times myself so I’m not going to sugar coat this. Your current coach doesn’t want your help and you aren’t going to change the culture. It looks like you are setting yourself up for a big disappointment. Try to figure out how to make the best of the situation or find a better situation. Those are your options. HS coaches like Cabbage are a dying breed but there are still some out there. If HS baseball it that important to you, go find one. 

I appreciate the brutal honesty and was afraid that this may be the case. 

@TerribleBPthrower posted:

My son’s HS coach is saying he’s going to have fall practices. I would rather he didn’t as my son prefers to practice with his travel coach. I like the facility being open for the kids to hit and throw, but the coach’s practices are not very organized and very little actual coaching or improvement takes place. 

Is fall practice attendance required? When my son was in high school the fall ball practices and games were for players trying to take a step up (previous bench, JV and freshmen players). My son went to games one year to secure a starting position. During the week he had soccer practice or games. After that if it didn’t interfere with travel he showed up to games to cheerlead and maybe pinch hit.

I coached travel softball through 18u Gold. Then I coached travel baseball through 16u. At high school games parents would second guess the coach to me. I refused to participate. The only response I gave until they stopped asking was, “There’s more than one option for most coaching situations.”

Then I turned to a good friend I trusted and said, “What the h*** was he thinking with that move?”

@greatgame posted:

M y take is that every dad and or mom knows more about baseball, soccer, football, ect than any coach. So quit the team and start your own team and then you can spend countless hours being attacked by parents. But of course that would not happen to you because you know so much more then everyone else.

If you are referencing my post, I fully understand how this could come across. I have dealt with those parents as well and it is part of the reason why I am seeking advice. 

To see what the norm is on participation and what to expect. 

@PABaseball posted:

What I would expect - nothing. Kids play high school sports as a fun extracurricular to represent their school and play with friends. If his coach showed up for practice at 4:00 on the dot and left at 4:45, but won a state championship, I wouldn't care at all. If he went 5-20 that wouldn't fly.

What I would like to see - 

1. Setting the team up with winter workouts at an indoor facility from Jan 1 - Opening Day (March)

2. Individual coach/player meetings before opening day and exit meetings after the season ends where roles and expectations are defined 

3. Help placing marginal and younger players in travel programs. I think the work with the guys who struggle or don't produce as much is more important than taking care of the studs. The studs are likely studs from travel ball and outside training. It is the kids who don't play summer/fall but could be decent who can help a good team win games they might not be expected to. 

I know mine wanted to be college athletes. They did the work necessary to get to that place, they weren't going to rely on a HS coach for a few months during the year when they were working with people on their own. The truth is they weren't going to be following a HS conditioning program in July when they could have been at the WWBA instead. 

People wonder why there are so many problems with HS ball? You really expect someone making $1800 for the season to go rake a field in July when his team won't be playing there until March. God bless those who are willing to build a program, but the money is often only good enough to motivate someone to do just enough not to get fired. The truth is that the money is in club ball, which is why you see a lot more teacher managers than guys who know what they're doing. These guys do pretty good things, and mine were fortunate to have decent coaches who were looking out for the kids and their best interest, but unfortunately the money just isn't there within the school to entice enough good guys to stick around. 

Thanks- I appreciate this! Again, I wasn't expecting the coach to do these things but more speculating on if this was the normal HS coach annual schedule. I was trying to understand where Coaches stood on what was to be expected and the norm and how it compares to my situation.

@RJM posted:

Is fall practice attendance required? When my son was in high school the fall ball practices and games were for players trying to take a step up (previous bench, JV and freshmen players). My son went to games one year to secure a starting position. During the week he had soccer practice or games. After that if it didn’t interfere with travel he showed up to games to cheerlead and maybe pinch hit.

Not required, but if you aren’t playing another sport he wants video of you working out or practicing. Also major guilt trip if you aren’t participating in his fall program/travel team, which he charges for. 

Neatest thing the brand new high school coach put together this past year was a book club where the boys met weekly to discuss sports leadership themed books throughout the school year. As a parent, even with the covid interrupted season, the coach led book club made high school baseball super worthwhile in addition to club/ travel ball. This new coach (wood shop teacher) with his leadership off the field built up his team and turned a losing team into a winning one....on so many levels. 

Understanding that this is all pre-COVID19....

Players are expected to be in weight training class with coach. Players are expected to come to first day of practice in  Jan ready to go at 100%. Other than that, it do not know what the expectations of HC for players is out of season. No fall workouts/practices, 3 on 1s, etc..

Now, does HC take note of who is working in the cages in the summer, fall, weekends, evenings? Who is working at facilities he knows with folks he knows owns? Who is doing long toss after school? Maybe. But I can’t say, and frankly it isn’t my business. I know that the team does well, and the field is impeccable. 🤷🏻

One thing I find odd, coach hasn’t reached out to the team since they were shut down (other than my son recently to ask him to play a tournament). Not a hey, get your work in, congrats on your commit, stay safe, etc. He sent out a text to come get their stuff and that was it. No season wrap-up. 

@TerribleBPthrower posted:

One thing I find odd, coach hasn’t reached out to the team since they were shut down (other than my son recently to ask him to play a tournament). Not a hey, get your work in, congrats on your commit, stay safe, etc. He sent out a text to come get their stuff and that was it. No season wrap-up. 

We were told by our AD that we were not to make contact.  In that way, we could not be viewed as attempting to set up individual practice etc.  I give hitting lessons to my team's players and they would not hit with me this summer.  (Note these lessons are not mandatory and I don't approach players.  If they want them, they set them up with me.)  

@CoachB25 posted:

We were told by our AD that we were not to make contact.  In that way, we could not be viewed as attempting to set up individual practice etc.  I give hitting lessons to my team's players and they would not hit with me this summer.  (Note these lessons are not mandatory and I don't approach players.  If they want them, they set them up with me.)  

That would make sense. This is a private school and Most kids play multiple sports. Other coaches have been reaching out periodically just to make sure kids are working out and to wish them well

@CoachB25 posted:

We were told by our AD that we were not to make contact.  In that way, we could not be viewed as attempting to set up individual practice etc.  I give hitting lessons to my team's players and they would not hit with me this summer.  (Note these lessons are not mandatory and I don't approach players.  If they want them, they set them up with me.)  

Please tell me you don’t charge for these lessons.  

@PitchingFan posted:

Please tell me you don’t charge for these lessons.  

Interesting comment.  Why would that be a problem?

I can’t wait to hear this....

The way you worded it.  I would hope a high school coach would not charge his players for lessons.  But I know those who do. 

I don't understood why HS coaches who charge for lessons or who are coaches on a travel team that have their students on it does not find it a conflict of interest. 

@2022NYC posted:

I don't understood why HS coaches who charge for lessons or who are coaches on a travel team that have their students on it does not find it a conflict of interest. 

Then in your opinion hitting coaches like me who are also high school coaches and teachers should forfeit their outside income for the roughly $2,500 I get paid to coach in high school.

I have a problem with any coach at any level who charges his own players for lessons.  I think you can use facilities but not to charge your players.  It fits under above reproach.  I don’t think travel coaches should charge their players for lessons.  Make that money from others not yours.  It falls under conflict of interest and if you want me to help you then you will have to pay.  Just me.  But not a fan of it.  

@PitchingFan posted:

The way you worded it.  I would hope a high school coach would not charge his players for lessons.  But I know those who do. 

I missed your reply.  I've been on this site since it first started and have been a moderator here ever since MN Mom took over the site.  I moderate other boards as well.  I have a pretty impressive resume but I won't bore you with that.  Why should I be required to coach for free when my contract for HS ball is set by the state association.  After that, it is my free time to do as I think right.  I would expect any person with a skill to charge for that skill.  This past week, we called a plummer and paid him a lot for his skill.  In HS ball, I don't get paid much for my skill.  I do it because I love the game and the players.  If I run a business in the summer, I should be allowed to make money from that business.  No one is forcing any player to take lessons from me.  In fact, and if you followed my posts on this and other sites, I turn a lot of people down each summer.  I set my capacity at 22 hitters.  I have hitters from my school and all over the area.  I have a range of hitters from age 10 to collegiate hitters.  (I don't count the collegiate hitters in my 22 since they most often call and ask to get in for a very brief time.

Now to the rest of your question.  Yes, I charge.  I used to do it for free.  I didn't want the pain from an additional form for taxes.  I am very expensive.    My AD called me in and asked me to charge since he thought that with me having a business but our players hitting for free it might cause some concerns with parents who didn't get their hitter in.  So, I charge $15 for approximately 45 min.  I have hitters hit in groups of 2.  I turned down, and I think I mentioned this on this site last year, approximately 50 hitters last year.  Per my parents, they are told that I don't require hitters to hit with me.  They want that due to the success of my hitters.  Again, the resume stuff.  Then, there is the success of my personal hitting student.  My kid went on to be a two time All American, hit 50 home runs in college and broke 8 of her college records.  Sorry, resume.  

Now the question back to you is why you would expect me to donate my times and skills for free?  

@PitchingFan posted:

I have a problem with any coach at any level who charges his own players for lessons.  I think you can use facilities but not to charge your players.  It fits under above reproach.  I don’t think travel coaches should charge their players for lessons.  Make that money from others not yours.  It falls under conflict of interest and if you want me to help you then you will have to pay.  Just me.  But not a fan of it.  

So, in your view, I should do all of the work like I did getting up at 6 in the morning 5 days a week to do weight room, staying after school for open gym, working on the field mowing, weeding, ... repairing facilities, buying equipment, ... and I am to be condemned for trying to make some money.  If you factor in all of the time away from the family to do this, you then find out why so many people are getting out of coaching.  In a neighboring school district, a young man I coached against has called it quits after 4 years.  He couldn't handle the time away from family while his kids were young.  He also couldn't handle all of the criticism when he was trying to build a program.  I built a program!  

Again, in my case parents are begging to get their child in.  This summer when we were not allowed to coach, parents were furious that I could not coach them.  I don't think any of our parents are upset that I do lessons.  

The problem isn't giving quality instruction for a price that you feel is worth your time. The problem is when Coach FewExtraBucks starts letting his small business get in the way of his judgement. When it is neck and neck between two guys for a position and the guy who spent $1200 in lessons in the offseason gets the starting job because he knows the parents will sign him up again. Or when Johnny HittingLessons keeps pinch hitting for the starter even though he is hitting .200 on the season. That is when it starts to get ugly

You see it all the time in travel, the kids who take lessons at the academy are often awarded more chances than the kids who don't do lessons and just play. We were part of that one summer, it was obvious. Kept quiet and moved on at the end of the season. Watched that very good team fall apart by the time they were 16. 

Our HS coach had a travel organization. He took players from the school, charged a pretty penny, and played a weak schedule full of local tournaments. A lot played, but some didn't. We never had to worry about this, but there was another kid who played for a cheaper rival organization.  It was fairly obvious the kid had more talent than some of the kids who played for him over the summer. He didn't see any meaningful innings until he was a senior when most of the coaches travel guys had already graduated. 

Unfortunately for every guy who knows what he's doing and does it the right way there are 10 more who like you said, agree the HS HC job doesn't pay enough and use their title as coach as a business opportunity ahead of it being a making my better players better for a few bucks situation. 

I can’t tell you what to do and won’t but I will tell you what I did.  Btw, I’ve been here 14 years.  Was here under a different name to start with and changed jobs.  Couldn’t log in one day and couldn’t get my password to work so began a new name.  
I was in a small town and taught hitting and pitching lessons. Became HS Hc for baseball and AC for softball.  Dropped charging all my players on either team.  It was an ethics thing for me.  Did I lose money?   Most of it but picked up others, mostly our competition but stayed above reproach.  I had to make a choice and I wanted to help our school.  They were paying me for my skills.  So you are preaching to the choir. Last year one of the dads talked me into helping Coach a Girls Softball travel team that had five of the girls I did lessons on. I stopped charging them for lessons while I was coaching them.  Again, I won’t tell you what to do but I did state my opinion and I can do that because I made the choice on multiple occasions.  You have to do you.  

Deleted response.  Carry on.  

I think it's a relic of yesteryear where coaches, and for that matter teachers, give countless hours on nights and weekends to help an never ending parade of kids.  Getting corrections, occasional tips and such is one thing, but a regularly scheduled, weekly private one-on-one batting session?  Why would anyone think this should be free to any and all?  I would insist on paying even if the coach didn't ask.  It seems odd that the same people who happily pay a travel coach for hitting lessons bristle at the thought of paying the HS coach for the same service.

@TN DAD posted:

Hello all,

I fully expect a coach even at the High School level is "coaching" all of the time in some form or fashion. But what is the expected time commitment from coaches throughout the country? I figured the expected commitment time frame is something like this:

Jan-May coaching and practicing and playing

June- Small break and then field maintenance, facilities upkeep, and promotion, securing donors, camps

July - Same as June but with Dead period, communicate off-season/summer workouts, conditioning

August-December - School starts- volunteer "open cage" after school, communicating with players about expectations, grades, potential college interest, suggest camps, showcases

 

This seems like a full year job and for a passionate person, this is part of the process.

I want to fully understand the commitment from a coaches and parents expectation.

 

Thanks so much!!

Back to OP....My parental expectation of a high school coach is to be a role model for the development of solid character & importance of team, provide safe structured team practices but know (be interested in) the players' skill sets individually with in season coaching, and ideally be available if the players (not parents) have off season questions or need occasional guidance (camps, colleges, workouts, arm health). I am truly amazed at the passion, time and true dedication virtually EVERY single coach has displayed since my college player was 4. Sure we as parents have witnessed all different coaching styles, playing opportunity politics, but we decided to look at the big picture & give people the benefit of the doubt. I love your ideal plan, but as a parent the plan above far exceeds my expectation. Not being a coach's wife but being besties with many, condensing the June- December schedule to focus on your other job and family, may bring loads of joy and secure the personal support you will need to start off the next season. Our high school did just go through a head coach and culture change after a 3 year transitional period so I wish you luck. As mom, I took the approach of being grateful for the coaches' over the top in season time commitment & respecting their experience (whether it be with baseball or life in general) and it worked out well. 

@Smitty28 posted:

I think it's a relic of yesteryear where coaches, and for that matter teachers, give countless hours on nights and weekends to help an never ending parade of kids.  Getting corrections, occasional tips and such is one thing, but a regularly scheduled, weekly private one-on-one batting session?  Why would anyone think this should be free to any and all?  I would insist on paying even if the coach didn't ask.  It seems odd that the same people who happily pay a travel coach for hitting lessons bristle at the thought of paying the HS coach for the same service.

I do not think a travel coach should be paid for hitting lessons.  That is their job is to teach their players to hit.  I think any coach should not be paid to teach hitting or pitching lessons to their players.  To any other plays, charge them.  I don't have a problem with schools or colleges that allow their coaches to use their facilities to make extra money but they should not charge their players.  Again, just me. 

@PitchingFan posted:

I do not think a travel coach should be paid for hitting lessons.  That is their job is to teach their players to hit.  I think any coach should not be paid to teach hitting or pitching lessons to their players.  To any other plays, charge them.  I don't have a problem with schools or colleges that allow their coaches to use their facilities to make extra money but they should not charge their players.  Again, just me. 

Ok, you live in a different world than I do.  My kids travel coach committed to 2 practices a week and access to the hitting facility, that's it.  We paid extra for every tournament.  The coach said his job was to teach the kids to play the game the right way, and I was totally ok with that.  If we wanted hitting lessons, pitching lessons or specific fielding or catching lessons, those were extra as well.  I think in Southern California that is the norm.

@PitchingFan posted:

I do not think a travel coach should be paid for hitting lessons.  That is their job is to teach their players to hit.  I think any coach should not be paid to teach hitting or pitching lessons to their players.  To any other plays, charge them.  I don't have a problem with schools or colleges that allow their coaches to use their facilities to make extra money but they should not charge their players.  Again, just me. 

It can be considered a violation of some state associations if a school's facilities are used for lesson to players from other school districts.  IOWs, it might be considered recruiting and using the facilities to recruit.   You are entitled to your opinion.  That and roughly $8 will get you an extra value meal at McDonalds.  Your assumption (Note the saying about assumptions) are not accurate in all places.  You would have a coach use facilities and not charge when the coach is charged.  Personally, I'm alright with charging.  No parent is forced to use my services and the best play when the season is in.  Fortunately, my parents want my services and I'm sure other parents want the same from their coaches.  

I paid my son’s travel coach about $1,500 for one on one hitting lessons over ten weeks. The lessons overlapped the travel team winter workouts by five weeks. Since the lessons were away from the team I didn’t think anything about paying. The impact of the lessons eventually had about a 40K ROI.

The only thing that bothered me about paying is the coach mostly drove home what I had been telling my son for two years, “There’s going to be a day when you can’t pull everything.” What did dad know? He only played college ball. The travel coach was a former D1 coach and associate pro scout on his way to becoming a full time pro scout. I paid for my son to listen.

The previous summer (after freshman year) my son was starting to tune me out. At the end of one day I was a little irritated with him I told him after this year someone else  is going to have to coach him and kick his arse to the next level. There was a 17u coach watching and waiting to talk to us. Talk about giving him an opening! 

As a coach, I always felt that if I was teaching my players it was part of my job as their coach.  If I thought they could pitch I taught them to pitch to help the team.  I taught them to hit as part of being their coach.  I do not think a player should have to pay his coach in travel or high school to be teach him the game.  But that and $6 where I live will buy me a meal at McDonald’s.  

Let’s have some peace. Stop threatening people’s lives with McDonald’s food. Can’t we all just get along! 😁

@RJM posted:

Let’s have some peace. Stop threatening people’s lives with McDonald’s food. Can’t we all just get along! 😁

Yeah, I agree. You really can’t compare a situation in the rural south to what goes on in San Diego. Personally I don’t begrudge any coach/instructor for charging a fair fee. The more important issue to me is whether or not I was getting my money’s worth. My sons hitting coach is the AA hitting instructor for the Cubs. He was a college All-American, won an Olympic medal, and played 5 years in the big leagues. He isn’t cheap but he fantastic and is worth every penny. I never tried to teach my son to hit as my expertise is pitching. I think hardly anyone can be an expert at both. It’s one or the other. Once a kid is past 12 years old I would run away from any instructor that is trying to pass himself off as a hitting AND pitching coach. But I’m in a big metro area and there are a lot of options here. Only a few of them are really good options and it’s taken a lot of years to get to those. I work with a partner and instruct local HS & college pitchers. In normal times we usually have a group of 12 to 15 from half a dozen various schools.  We decided years ago not to charge $ for our instruction. We view it as our form of community service. We both pitched in college and neither of us ever got good pitching instruction. We are self taught. So we do for others what wasn’t done for us. Having no fee involved gives us the freedom to be completely honest with players and parents and it eliminates any hint of conflict of interest. But this is our passion not our vocation - and that matters a lot. Almost all HS baseball coaches are underpaid. If they want/need to supplement their income by giving lessons I’m fine with that -as long as they are giving good instruction. 

@PitchingFan posted:

As a coach, I always felt that if I was teaching my players it was part of my job as their coach.  If I thought they could pitch I taught them to pitch to help the team.  I taught them to hit as part of being their coach.  I do not think a player should have to pay his coach in travel or high school to be teach him the game.  But that and $6 where I live will buy me a meal at McDonald’s.  

What makes you assume that a coach isn't coaching the game when those players are in season?  When that season is over, players have a choice on what they do as do their parents.  BTW, I'll put up my resume and what I have done for my players against anyone at anytime.  

I'm just stating my opinion.  I think a coach is a coach to his players and should not get paid twice.  I'm not bashing you.  You have your opinion and I have mine.  I made my choices because of my convictions.  I just saw ME as a coach to my players all year round, not just during season.  You have to do you and I have to do me.  I can appreciate you and not agree with you.  I've never questioned YOUR abilities.  I've never questioned your resume.  I just have my opinion of what a high school and travel coach should do in relation to their players.  Again, I have friends that do it and that is their choice.  But don't think the parents of those who don't use you or get to use you don't have a problem with it.  I've heard them about my friends in travel and high school.  No different than coaching your own kid like you and I have done if I remember right.  Not the best scenario but required at times.  There are those on here who will tell both of us we should never have done it but we did.  Again, I don't have to agree with your choices and you mine.  But there are choices that we make in life that are not best but good.  I fully understand where you are coming from but in this conversation I will not change my mind nor you.  But maybe some other guy or gal is reading this that is having to make this decision for them and they are hearing both sides of it.  So it gives them information to make their choice for them.  Let me also say I would never pay my child's travel coach to give my kid lessons. 

@adbono posted:

Yeah, I agree. You really can’t compare a situation in the rural south to what goes on in San Diego. Personally I don’t begrudge any coach/instructor for charging a fair fee. The more important issue to me is whether or not I was getting my money’s worth. My sons hitting coach is the AA hitting instructor for the Cubs. He was a college All-American, won an Olympic medal, and played 5 years in the big leagues. He isn’t cheap but he fantastic and is worth every penny. I never tried to teach my son to hit as my expertise is pitching. I think hardly anyone can be an expert at both. It’s one or the other. Once a kid is past 12 years old I would run away from any instructor that is trying to pass himself off as a hitting AND pitching coach. But I’m in a big metro area and there are a lot of options here. Only a few of them are really good options and it’s taken a lot of years to get to those. I work with a partner and instruct local HS & college pitchers. In normal times we usually have a group of 12 to 15 from half a dozen various schools.  We decided years ago not to charge $ for our instruction. We view it as our form of community service. We both pitched in college and neither of us ever got good pitching instruction. We are self taught. So we do for others what wasn’t done for us. Having no fee involved gives us the freedom to be completely honest with players and parents and it eliminates any hint of conflict of interest. But this is our passion not our vocation - and that matters a lot. Almost all HS baseball coaches are underpaid. If they want/need to supplement their income by giving lessons I’m fine with that -as long as they are giving good instruction. 

There are a couple of really good points in here. Are you getting your monies worth or are you trying to buy your way into the next level? In other words, is the money improving the talent or is it attempting to buy a piece of the high school coach’s heart for preferential treatment? 

Like adbono I didn’t get any decent instruction until I encountered a former minor leaguer. Junior year of high school a former player came back to help after being released. It wasn’t until then anyone showed me the proper grip on each pitch. I grew up with, “if I hold it this way what does the ball do?”

The first time I got any hitting instruction was college ball after starting 0-16 with 7 K’s. Weights in high school? Stay away! Don’t get muscle bound.

@CoachB25 posted:

Then in your opinion hitting coaches like me who are also high school coaches and teachers should forfeit their outside income for the roughly $2,500 I get paid to coach in high school.

Coach B,

You absolutely have a right to earn a living and I absolutely wish my kid could be trained by you. I may be an alarmist here but imo this is a recipe for a disaster and can ruin your good reputation. What if a student who is not taking lessons from you gets cut and their parents argue their darling child was unfairly treated because you favored kids on the team who paid you? 

@2022NYC posted:

Coach B,

You absolutely have a right to earn a living and I absolutely wish my kid could be trained by you. I may be an alarmist here but imo this is a recipe for a disaster and can ruin your good reputation. What if a student who is not taking lessons from you gets cut and their parents argue their darling child was unfairly treated because you favored kids on the team who paid you? 

 

 

I hand out a "hold harmless agreement" before each hitting session.  As you might know, they really are worthless for the most part BUT one statement on it states that if your child takes hitting lessons from me, it does not guarantee your child anything.   (Paraphrasing.)  Again, I limit my sessions to 22 hitters.  Pretty much the hitters that make it in are some of the better players anyway and have the drive to do these lessons.  I give the first lesson to any new hitter for free and I assess them.  If they don't have the drive and aren't coachable, they won't get past that free lesson.  I only have hard chargers in my lessons.  I recently sent video of one of my hitters to a college coach.  In the video, I pointed out that this player works and had to have a special time.  1:00 in the afternoon.  that had them wrapping up around 2:00.  I told the college coach that if they questioned this hitter's work ethic that on the day of the video, this hitter was hitting at 107 heat index and did so for an hour.  I also told that coach that this hitter would shatter his school's records.  Well, the virus hit but this hitter was having one of the top 3 seasons in the history of that school for a freshman.  

Edited--

I live in a very small town. I often refer to it as "Small Town USA."  Everywhere I go I am called "coach."  I have coached HS ball for 35 years.  I am now coaching former player's kids.  My reputation is solid and I'm not worried about it.