Expected time commitment -High school Coach

In our area baseball coaches also have other positions at the school, usually associated with FB (football).  The head HS baseball coach is also the head athletic trainer and works with the kids all year on workouts in all sports, but especially FB.  Most of the assistant coaches, including JV and Freshman coach also coach FB.  Pretty much all male assistant coaches of any spring team helps out with FB in the Fall.  Basically, almost like in College, FB helps pay the bills, and many coaches like the extra supplemental income that comes with helping with FB. 

I would say these are very high and unrealistic expectations for a high school coach. Not that it can't be done, the top coaches do this, but to expect this across the board is asking way too much. For a stipend of a few thousand dollars - that is a lot of time to be investing. Unless it is your program and something you plan on being part of for a while, then yes. But a lot of high school coaches are teachers looking to make a few extra bucks during the season. 

Should a HS coach be doing this? If they want to have a successful program - yes. Does a HS coach have to do all this to be successful? No. 

There are good HS coaches out there, don't get me wrong - I know there are many on this board who do the things mentioned. But the truth is a good baseball player doesn't need to be following a detailed plan from his HS coach. He should be working out regularly, playing competitive travel ball, and following a program tailored to his specific baseball needs. For the marginal guys, it can be helpful, but I've seen good coaches who didn't even know what Perfect Game was and bad coaches who did everything mentioned above. I would say this is asking for a lot, even from an A+ HS coach. 

What I expect from my HS coach - win us championships

What I expect from travel coaches and trainers - get me better and to the next level 

I’m guessing the typical high school coach isn’t as committed as the original post’s example. My kids attended a high school with loser softball and baseball programs up until when they arrived. I believe the previous coaches went through the motions. They were glorified baby sitters who tried to keep parents happy.

My kids were fortunate to be coached by new regimes brought in by a new AD. The new coaches came as assistants from established winning programs. The teams went from bottom feeders to conference champions quickly. Now there were pissed off parents who couldn’t control the program and the coaches didn’t care what they thought. 

From what I observed, heard and told directly by the coaches aside from teaching their time was taken up with player development, fundraising, facility improvement and tracking individual academic standing. These were year round issues. In the summer they ran 7-12yo camps to raise money.

With the new coaches the sport went from show up for tryouts to fall ball and winter training, then season. Players were expected to show up the first day of tryouts in mid season form. Tryouts were a formality except maybe the last roster spots at each level.

Being a large high school with sports programs getting off the ground guidance counselors experienced with college prospect athletes were added. While the coaches had some input with college coaches most input and contact came from travel coaches. The high school coaches were asked more about citizenship and keeping up with academics.

Both my kid’s coaches we’re former college players with the goal of becoming a college coach. One made it. The other now owns a baseball academy. He decided having young kids and commitment to rising in coaching didn’t mix well.

@RJM posted:

I’m guessing the typical high school coach isn’t as committed as the original post’s example. My kids attended a high school with loser softball and baseball programs up until when they arrived. I believe the previous coaches went through the motions. They were glorified baby sitters who tried to keep parents happy.

My kids were fortunate to be coached by new regimes brought in by a new AD. The new coaches came as assistants from established winning programs. The teams went from bottom feeders to conference champions quickly. Now there were pissed off parents who couldn’t control the program and the coaches didn’t care what they thought. 

From what I observed, heard and told directly by the coaches aside from teaching their time was taken up with player development, fundraising, facility improvement and tracking individual academic standing. These were year round issues. In the summer they ran 7-12yo camps to raise money.

With the new coaches the sport went from show up for tryouts to fall ball and winter training, then season. Players were expected to show up the first day of tryouts in mid season form. Tryouts were a formality except maybe the last roster spots at each level.

Being a large high school with sports programs getting off the ground guidance counselors experienced with college prospect athletes were added. While the coaches had some input with college coaches most input and contact came from travel coaches. The high school coaches were asked more about citizenship and keeping up with academics.

Both my kid’s coaches we’re former college players with the goal of becoming a college coach. One made it. The other now owns a baseball academy. He decided having young kids and commitment to rising in coaching didn’t mix well.

So better not calculate your hourly wage as a coach, right?

@PABaseball posted:

I would say these are very high and unrealistic expectations for a high school coach. Not that it can't be done, the top coaches do this, but to expect this across the board is asking way too much. For a stipend of a few thousand dollars - that is a lot of time to be investing. Unless it is your program and something you plan on being part of for a while, then yes. But a lot of high school coaches are teachers looking to make a few extra bucks during the season. 

Should a HS coach be doing this? If they want to have a successful program - yes. Does a HS coach have to do all this to be successful? No. 

There are good HS coaches out there, don't get me wrong - I know there are many on this board who do the things mentioned. But the truth is a good baseball player doesn't need to be following a detailed plan from his HS coach. He should be working out regularly, playing competitive travel ball, and following a program tailored to his specific baseball needs. For the marginal guys, it can be helpful, but I've seen good coaches who didn't even know what Perfect Game was and bad coaches who did everything mentioned above. I would say this is asking for a lot, even from an A+ HS coach. 

What I expect from my HS coach - win us championships

What I expect from travel coaches and trainers - get me better and to the next level 

Thank you very much for this reply. This is very good information. What could or should be expected from a stipend coach? My question may have come across as asking way too much from a coach. 

I wanted to put all of that out because the only thing that our coach does is the Feb-May time-frame.

None of the other stuff happens. 

@TN DAD posted:

Thank you very much for this reply. This is very good information. What could or should be expected from a stipend coach? My question may have come across as asking way too much from a coach. 

I wanted to put all of that out because the only thing that our coach does is the Feb-May time-frame.

None of the other stuff happens. 

That is more common than not - speaking from my own experience.  The exceptions tend to be old school guys that have been around a while & young guys on the way up that want to make a name for themselves. We need more of those guys! 

I stepped away a few years ago.  California.  Typical year -

Nov/Dec - conditioning 3 to 5 times/wk, arm ramp up/P pen progressions where applicable, equipment/spirit pack orders, put together staffs for V  and JV, game schedules, some facilities work, coordinate fundraisers, etc..  The conditioning sessions required a fair amount of planning, particularly with limited facilities and fitness equip.  Averaged maybe 15-20 hrs/wk.

Jan/Feb - tryouts, daily practice, separate P pen progressions, grounds/facilities work, parent meeting, team meetings, league meetings, fundraisers, assign and coordinate parent volunteer work (snack bar, van drivers, announcers booth/music, scorekeep, photographer, team dinners, etc.) coordinate community involvement event/s, track and issue equipment, spirit packs, uni's.  Quite a bit of time went into planning each practice to and coordinating between V and JV as necessary to maximize efficiency.  Averaged 30+ hrs/wk.

Mar/Apr/May - practices, games, game prep/planning, grounds/facilites work, team meetings, manage maxpreps/stats, media communication, AD communication, admin reports, PT communication, volunteer communication, occasional parent calls, community events.  Playoffs.  player one-on-one's mapping plans/goals for next year.  Averaged 35+ hrs/wk.

Jun/July/Aug - season wrap - league meetings, team/award dinner, short dead period, some form of summer ball schedule and a tourney or two with separate round of equipment ordering, coordinating umps, transportation.  Typically hosted a tourney to cover summer ball costs.  Averaged 15-20 hrs/wk.

Sept/Oct - take some time, start planning for the next year.  Say hi to my wife and kids, as this was all on top of a regular job.  Just drive down to the field for a "look" once in a while  

More recently, some summer ball has shifted to fall.  I was at a small/medium school where many players were multi-sport, so there was extra coordination and extended tryout periods.  Yeah, I could have done it in less hours but it was necessary if we were to have a quality, competitive program.  Some guys in our area do less.  Many do the same.  You can usually tell as soon as a team takes the field.  Can't blame the guys who do less.  It can be REALLY hard to warrant the very significant time commitment to do it right for the boys, particularly when it is essentially no pay.

So, are you asking as a parent or as someone considering coaching?  

We're in Iowa with summer baseball. I'm pretty sure our coach gets about $600 a year. Here's what our world was.

January — coach is coaching wrestling and teaching third grade. Kids who care are lining up sessions with private coaches, my kid usually did a preseason warmup package with his summer team. HS has a lifting manager who focuses on football, but he would put together programs for baseball.

February — wrestling ends, pitchers and catchers begin light throwing inside. Kids who care step up their private efforts. Lifting continues.

March-April or so — coach gets someone (usually a dad) to put together a summer league to play other schools around the area. Pitch counts are low and strictly monitored. HS coach attends games from time to time. Lifting continues.

May-July — Tryouts, practices, games. State tournament is end of July. Lifting continues

August-January — No official action, but whenever we asked coach turned over the keys to the HS complex so son could shoot video or a group of kids who cared could get together and practice/play. Most serious players go play fall ball. When school started in August, coach would pull kids in for a "if you plan to play baseball next year" meeting and get them started in the weight room.

On the one hand, this put a lot of the weight on the kids and honestly, I think that was a good thing. People knew who was putting in the time and if they weren't, they couldn't complain about lack of playing time.

On the other, despite the low pay and the fact that he's not the best baseball guy in the world, our coach was always there for whatever we asked, including access to facilities and pitching tracking equipment, etc.

We can't put a dollar amount on what he did for my kid.

I say it depends on stipend and expectations from coach and administration.  Parents don’t always have realistic expectations.  They want the coach to work 40 hours a week on baseball for $2000 a year.  Some guys do it because they love it or have other motives like moving up or kids involved.  But I’ve found parents don’t want to raise money to help supplement salaries but want too much and control is one of the things they want. 

We live in a small midwestern state in a city of about 500K-ish if you count the suburbs.  95+% of baseball HCs are teachers.  HS baseball happens in the spring and transitions immediately into Legion ball in the summer.  I sincerely appreciate the coaches time and efforts.  The hourly wage works out to be something awful.  But I am not comfortable calling them coaches.  The best descriptor is "manager."  95% of the actual coaching (individual development and learning) happens outside of the high school HC.  No high school coach around here is taking the time to focus on Johnny 3B's swing mechanics.  Or improving Jimmy P's FB velo or change up.  The HC might throw out some high level feedback here and there, but that's not coaching in my mind.  If focused individual attention is happening, parents are paying good money for private lessons, camps, clinics, etc.   "Select"/travel ball (USSSA) for 8U-14U has devoured and monopolized the area.  I can't count how many peers of my son were getting $50-100/hour private pitching and hitting lessons since the age of 8.  Hell, I knew of a couple of his peers who were seeing sports psychologists at the age of 9.  You can't make this stuff up!  My point is this.  High school coaches don't coach/instruct here because the parents pay to have it done for 10 years before the kid even gets to them.  So you give the high school players some BP and INF and OF warmups and you pretty much call it good.

Up in MN the coaches are not allowed to run practices till late March, hence the dreaded "captain's practices".

Our school is a large public. Good, but not awesome program. The new HS coach has an excellent BB pedigree, and practices will be well run...probably better than most travel programs in the area.  He emphasizes efficiency, with multiple separate groups working on the field at the same time. I do agree that most of the development will be in the off season, and by MNHS rules, the coach must be hands off during that period, so players must fend for themselves.

@cabbagedad posted:

I stepped away a few years ago.  California.  Typical year -

Nov/Dec - conditioning 3 to 5 times/wk, arm ramp up/P pen progressions where applicable, equipment/spirit pack orders, put together staffs for V  and JV, game schedules, some facilities work, coordinate fundraisers, etc..  The conditioning sessions required a fair amount of planning, particularly with limited facilities and fitness equip.  Averaged maybe 15-20 hrs/wk.

Jan/Feb - tryouts, daily practice, separate P pen progressions, grounds/facilities work, parent meeting, team meetings, league meetings, fundraisers, assign and coordinate parent volunteer work (snack bar, van drivers, announcers booth/music, scorekeep, photographer, team dinners, etc.) coordinate community involvement event/s, track and issue equipment, spirit packs, uni's.  Quite a bit of time went into planning each practice to and coordinating between V and JV as necessary to maximize efficiency.  Averaged 30+ hrs/wk.

Mar/Apr/May - practices, games, game prep/planning, grounds/facilites work, team meetings, manage maxpreps/stats, media communication, AD communication, admin reports, PT communication, volunteer communication, occasional parent calls, community events.  Playoffs.  player one-on-one's mapping plans/goals for next year.  Averaged 35+ hrs/wk.

Jun/July/Aug - season wrap - league meetings, team/award dinner, short dead period, some form of summer ball schedule and a tourney or two with separate round of equipment ordering, coordinating umps, transportation.  Typically hosted a tourney to cover summer ball costs.  Averaged 15-20 hrs/wk.

Sept/Oct - take some time, start planning for the next year.  Say hi to my wife and kids, as this was all on top of a regular job.  Just drive down to the field for a "look" once in a while  

More recently, some summer ball has shifted to fall.  I was at a small/medium school where many players were multi-sport, so there was extra coordination and extended tryout periods.  Yeah, I could have done it in less hours but it was necessary if we were to have a quality, competitive program.  Some guys in our area do less.  Many do the same.  You can usually tell as soon as a team takes the field.  Can't blame the guys who do less.  It can be REALLY hard to warrant the very significant time commitment to do it right for the boys, particularly when it is essentially no pay.

So, are you asking as a parent or as someone considering coaching?  

 

Thank you for this time-frame. I am asking for both reasons. As a parent of a child who is part of a "team" but not really a program but also to possibly help change the culture. Our coach just doesn't seem to have any passion for the position.  I'm not the kind to cause conflict but I wanted to get some comps to hopefully help our current coach or at least understand how a successful program is ran.

@TN DAD posted:

Hello all,

I fully expect a coach even at the High School level is "coaching" all of the time in some form or fashion. But what is the expected time commitment from coaches throughout the country? I figured the expected commitment time frame is something like this:

Jan-May coaching and practicing and playing

June- Small break and then field maintenance, facilities upkeep, and promotion, securing donors, camps

July - Same as June but with Dead period, communicate off-season/summer workouts, conditioning

August-December - School starts- volunteer "open cage" after school, communicating with players about expectations, grades, potential college interest, suggest camps, showcases

 

This seems like a full year job and for a passionate person, this is part of the process.

I want to fully understand the commitment from a coaches and parents expectation.

 

Thanks so much!!

I found it interesting that you think that coaching high school baseball is a full time job.  I then wondered if you meant that it is a full time job therefore high school baseball coaches should only have to coach or if you meant that you expect for that position to be full time and above all other positions.   I also found it interesting that you think that one aspect of the job is to do the diamond all summer although that is exactly what I did.  You might find that you run into all types of problems as a coach if you attempt this.  For example, at one point I was barred for getting on any equipment so I bought my own.  You are not allowed to use weed control as a coach and so, my daughter and I pulled weeds all summer.  Eventually, I got the maintenance guys on my side and things became a little easier.  

I coached HS baseball for a very long time.  There is a difference between coaching a team and building a program.  If the goal is to build a program, a coach has to put in the time.  They also have to be constantly learning the game.  They have to become knowledgeable about weight programs, hitting philosophy, pitching philosophy and being a "trainer."  For my first 12 years of coaching baseball, I was the trainer for the team I coached.  

To keep this short, per your list, I did most of that year around.  However, and I know I am different, I didn't seek donors.  That was against school policy.  We had one athletic booster club for all sports.  I was fortunate that I was able to get my high school team into the fundraiser program with the St. Louis Cardinals and so, we generated revenue that way.  I was also fortunate that our summer camps became one of the top camps around.  We would put 100 kids in both the fundamentals and advanced hitting camps.  With the breakdown regarding ages and skill levels, that had me and my staff working long days but doing great work.  In fact, we had other coaches sign up their teams to come to my camps.  Since I didn't take any money from the camps and my coaches agreed to take less than they should have taken, we could put $5,000 into the program every summer.  

Finally, in many places a high school coach can not focus just on their programs.  I was the head coach in two sports for a very long time and in three sports at the same time for a short period of time.  In all, I was the head coach in four different programs.  It was impossible to be everything to everyone.  However, the expectations didn't lessen.  To quote my AD at the time, "We expect to win.  You have one year to turn things around here.  If you don't we'll go a different direction."  We won and became an area power in all of those sports I coached!

Edited to add:  I missed the post about HS coaches not really coaches but managers.  Unfortunately, that seems to be the way HS coaches are being thought of today.  I coached the entire deal.  My assistant coaches coached the entire deal.  I was fortunate that I was allowed to hire all of my assistant coaches so I hired many coaches who had played for me when I was an assistant coach.  They knew my expectations and they had the passion to excel.  They made me look real good.  

@TN DAD posted:

Thank you for this time-frame. I am asking for both reasons. As a parent of a child who is part of a "team" but not really a program but also to possibly help change the culture. Our coach just doesn't seem to have any passion for the position.  I'm not the kind to cause conflict but I wanted to get some comps to hopefully help our current coach or at least understand how a successful program is ran.

I have been thru this three different times myself so I’m not going to sugar coat this. Your current coach doesn’t want your help and you aren’t going to change the culture. It looks like you are setting yourself up for a big disappointment. Try to figure out how to make the best of the situation or find a better situation. Those are your options. HS coaches like Cabbage are a dying breed but there are still some out there. If HS baseball it that important to you, go find one. 

@TN DAD posted:

Thank you for this time-frame. I am asking for both reasons. As a parent of a child who is part of a "team" but not really a program but also to possibly help change the culture. Our coach just doesn't seem to have any passion for the position.  I'm not the kind to cause conflict but I wanted to get some comps to hopefully help our current coach or at least understand how a successful program is ran.

Tn Dad, not knowing more specifics of your particular situation, I'll throw out some more stuff that may or may not apply...

Be aware that many of the duties and responsibilities occur behind the scenes, where you may not be aware of all that he does.  Be aware that there can be significant obstacles with administration, league rules, budget, etc., that can limit a coach in many ways.  Be aware that getting involved with the coaching side can be exponentially more difficult if you are a parent of a player and can cause particular challenges for your son as well.  These can be  overcome but...   Be aware that a HC has to approach things with the best interest of the whole program (sometimes 35-60+ players) in mind, not just one.  So, the parent of one will almost always feel their son isn't getting the individual attention they would like him to get.  Be aware that finding that individual that is all things - well qualified, connects with the players, willing to work for nothing, able to make things fit with his/her existing life and work schedule, willing to make the huge time commitment, willing to deal with administration and parent issues, etc. can be extremely difficult, so be very careful about running off the guy that has already stepped up to do this, albeit perhaps to a lesser extent than you would prefer.  I have seen many very good coaches run off or quit due, largely, to parents not understanding the challenges and restrictions coaches face.  Often, the replacement is far inferior, so be careful what you wish for.  Feel free to PM me if you want to discuss more privately - I may be able to steer you to ways to help and/or accept and make the best of the situation, as Adbono said.

PS - just saw that part of your profile is "new coach" and you reference "...possibly help change the culture" in your post.  I was directly involved in successfully flipping the culture in our program... again, would be happy to provide any help, answer any questions via PM.

Everything that Cabbage said is spot on. To clarify, I was not suggesting that you try to replace your current coach. I was suggesting that you find a different HS for your son to attend (if this issue is that important). 

A bunch of us worked with the coach to procure donated materials and labor for new dugouts, fix the outfield fence and build a two story storage shed and announcers booth for baseball and sftball. 

The the school maintenance union stepped in. it wasn’t free anymore. The free labor was a violation of the union contract. And it took an extra year to get done. The school couldn’t accept free materials from a vendor not on the list. It took until the next school year for those vendors to be approved.

For any parent who thinks they can change the coach and culture, good luck. All you can do is offer to help and do what the coach requests. Nothing will change until the coach trusts you and asks for input, it doesn’t happen overnight.

@TN DAD posted:

Thank you very much for this reply. This is very good information. What could or should be expected from a stipend coach?

What I would expect - nothing. Kids play high school sports as a fun extracurricular to represent their school and play with friends. If his coach showed up for practice at 4:00 on the dot and left at 4:45, but won a state championship, I wouldn't care at all. If he went 5-20 that wouldn't fly.

What I would like to see - 

1. Setting the team up with winter workouts at an indoor facility from Jan 1 - Opening Day (March)

2. Individual coach/player meetings before opening day and exit meetings after the season ends where roles and expectations are defined 

3. Help placing marginal and younger players in travel programs. I think the work with the guys who struggle or don't produce as much is more important than taking care of the studs. The studs are likely studs from travel ball and outside training. It is the kids who don't play summer/fall but could be decent who can help a good team win games they might not be expected to. 

I know mine wanted to be college athletes. They did the work necessary to get to that place, they weren't going to rely on a HS coach for a few months during the year when they were working with people on their own. The truth is they weren't going to be following a HS conditioning program in July when they could have been at the WWBA instead. 

People wonder why there are so many problems with HS ball? You really expect someone making $1800 for the season to go rake a field in July when his team won't be playing there until March. God bless those who are willing to build a program, but the money is often only good enough to motivate someone to do just enough not to get fired. The truth is that the money is in club ball, which is why you see a lot more teacher managers than guys who know what they're doing. These guys do pretty good things, and mine were fortunate to have decent coaches who were looking out for the kids and their best interest, but unfortunately the money just isn't there within the school to entice enough good guys to stick around.