Skip to main content

40 replies

Facilitation and Validation

FungoFungoHighly Regarded and Beloved Old Timer
JUST SOME RAMBLINGS:
I find players' advancements a validation for many people whether or not they had ANYTHING at all to do with that advancement. I find this one of the most unfair things in youth baseball. Very few people like to give most of the credit to the athlete and his innate abilities. Everyone wants a piece most of the credit. HS coaches, trainers, instructors, neighbors, showcase promoters, summer coaches, other players and even parents. They use a player's success to validate their "efforts". I'll be the first to admit that many people assisted my son along the way ----- but not nearly as MUCH as some claim ---- and ---- not nearly as MANY that have claimed credit for his success. I'm sure that I have taken undue credit at times for my son and other players by basking in their "glory", but even so there is something about self serving validations that diminishes a player's innate abilities. I have said "I took my son to the East Coast Pro combine" when in reality I "followed" my son to East Coast Pro". I may take credit for facilitating his trip by driving him to North Carolina, staying in a motel and watching his every move but HE would have accomplished the same thing if I had given another parent 1/2 gas money so he could ride with them. I think there needs to be more respect and appreciation for a player's talent. There has been a momentous shift over the years from a player's on-field, talented game performance, to doing non-game, business based "baseball activities", with a player's innate talent validating those facilitators and activity organizers. Don't expect things to change ---- We all love a good dose of validation even though we may not deserve it. Big Grin
Fungo
Last edited {1}
Original Post

Replies sorted oldest to newest

S 1st&3rd1,000+ posts
I'm not sure that "taking credit" is necessarily a bad thing. When an organization says an X number of drafted players attended one of our tournaments/showcases or a select travel team posts on this site which colleges its players will be attending is this bad? I'm not even sure they are taking credit, but letting people know we are successful at what we do and we are one vehicle a player can use to accomplish their goals. An organization or team isn't going to get any player drafted or into college if they don't have the talent. As a matter of fact you probably won't be attending the top tournaments or play for the top teams unless you have the talent to begin with.

A local baseball academy posts on the wall of their facility the players who have trained there and what college they attended. My son has always used this as a motivational tool. He has seen what other players have accomplished and with hard work and dedication he hopes he can have similar accomplishments.
Last edited by 1st&3rd
SouthPaw_MomSouthPaw_Mom10+ posts
In the last few years, my husband and I have tried to take the "my team" out of our vocabulary and say "our son's team" or "the boys" or "my son". Instead of saying, "I wish we could win this game", I say "I hope the boys win." No matter how much money we spend or how much driving we do, ulitmately, my son and his teammates have to do the work and play the game. My husband and I both played and the transition from player to checkbook/driver isn't always easy.

Just last night, we had a conversation with "the boy" about as his parents, we provide guidance, but he has to choose which path he wants to walk, how hard he wants to work, and where he wants this baseball dream to take him. If he is successful, it's because he choose, did the work and deserves the credit. The older he gets, the more advanced his baseball skills become, and the more pushups he is required to do, the happier I am to step aside and let him take the credit. I really hate push ups.

Thanks for the ramblings Fungo!
rz1rz15,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by 1st&3rd:
I'm not sure that "taking credit" is necessarily a bad thing. When PG says an X number of drafted players attended one of our tournaments/showcases or College Select posts on this site which colleges its players will be attending is this bad?



In todays world I think there are not enough true "success stories". If someone can feel that he was part in the making of a "good person", let him toot his horn because someone may be listening and will try to emulate that success.
Last edited by rz1
FungoFungoHighly Regarded and Beloved Old Timer
1st&3rd,
I'd prefer if we stayed away from specific instances, organizations, and individuals in this thread lest we get accused of promoting or targeting such. As I indicated there have been individuals and organizations that have promoted my son to his (and their) benefit. That's fine and I applaud them and at times will indicate them by name and what they've done. In these cases taking credit is fine so I agree taking credit isn't always "bad". However there are those that deserve less credit (individuals, organizations --- parents included) than they claim. I just think this dilutes and diverts the credit away from the player and HIS talent. "I taught him everything he knows" is a common humorous quote that is way too common and not at all humorous in many conversations. Take some coaches for instance: Sometimes coaches claim credit for coaching a player into a successful career when in reality it was the player and his talent that helped the coach. Some will say it's a mutual benefit to player and coach and I say --- sometimes it is ---- but many times it isn't. Often coaches and organizations "tag" these stud players for their validation. When my son was pre-HS and HS this happened frequently and since it gave him more "exposure" I smiled and let it slide. It helped him but hurt others looking to emulate him.
Let me give you a blatant example of this. A recruiting service approached me trying to sell me a $1,000.00 package to promote my son to colleges. I declined for a couple of reasons. #1. My son didn't need promoting. #2. I wasn't about to pay $1,000.00 for an 8X10 glossy and a VHS tape. To shorten the story the promoter eventually offered his services for free if he could "represent and promote" my son. Actually he begged me to allow him to "represent and promote" him. Put 2 and 2 together.
Fungo
justbaseballjustbaseball10,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by SouthPaw_Mom:
Just last night, we had a conversation with "the boy" about as his parents, we provide guidance, but he has to choose which path he wants to walk, how hard he wants to work, and where he wants this baseball dream to take him. If he is successful, it's because he choose, did the work and deserves the credit. The older he gets, the more advanced his baseball skills become, and the more pushups he is required to do, the happier I am to step aside and let him take the credit. I really hate push ups.


Very, VERY nice for just a 10th post! I couldn't agree more! Wink
OLDSLUGGER8OLDSLUGGER81,000+ posts
Has anyone asked their kid recently why they play?

Hopefully the answer received was because it is fun!

My older player was able to experience his father(me) put on the uniform 2-4 times every weekend during the summer to play old mans hardball. For what its worth, the leagues included many former minor leaguers, former college players, talented players who never pursued playing beyond HS, and in tournaments, a few former MLB'ers.

Now, younger son has an older brother playing college baseball and that is more influential in my opinion.

We have a former MLB'er basically in our backyard who gives great advice on the game.

Older player had a great HS coach, a former D1 star and minor leaguer and had a great summer coach and hitting instructor who has helped players advance for over 25 years.

I validate it is fun for both boys because they still play baseball in the family room with a ball of socks, something older boy and I did when he was very little. Self MOTIVATION because it is fun for them.

FUNGO, nobody I listed above has ever asked for credit, nor claimed it. In fact, it was the opposite. We thanked them, still do.
DB Danny Boydston1,000+ posts
This might be a little "off base" here but let me just add that in my opinion, there is enough credit to go around.

A young man can be blessed with all the talent in the world, whether it be in sports, academics or tiddlywinks. Whatever it may be, all this talent has to be channeled in the right direction at an early age. Someone has to notice that talent and mold it.

I give credit to the math teacher who made sure the kid understood the problem, worked with him and taught him the solution. I give credit to the coach that realized the boy was a pitcher and not a catcher, I give him credit for teaching him the nasty change-up, one enabling him to get a teams tough hitter out.

As parents, we will take credit for instilling the work ethic that it takes to be successful on the field, in the classroom and in life. We will also take credit for letting him fail on occasion so he really knows and understands how good it feels to be successful.

Last but not least, we give the kid all the credit in the world for taken his "God given talents" along with everything that was taught and instilled in him to work hard, take advantage of, and appreciate all that his been given him.

Sure, we all might take a little more credit than we deserve, but I also believe you have those who do not take enough credit when credit is deserved!

Sorry Fungo, I know this is a little different than what you're speaking of, but I think you have to have one if you want to realize the full potential of the other.
Last edited by Danny Boydston
CM Coach May1,000+ posts
I always found it amusing how certain parents had more clout around the ball park based on how talented their kid was. The parents of the lesser talented players are treated as second class citizens at the park. The parents of some of the more talented players walk around with their nose up in the air like they are better than the others. It used to be so comical to me to watch this. The dad of the local stud is asked "Could you work with Timmy , Johnny has such a nice swing." The parents of the more talented players hang out together at the park and the lesser talented parents hang together. The better players walk around like they own the park and treat the lesser talented players like they are below them. Now maybe you guys never saw any of this but I did all the time. My oldest son played and he was not very good. I sat back and watched what was going on. I noticed alot and just sat back and watched and was so amused by all of it.

As the kids moved on to HS many of the circumstances started to change. Some on the outside were now on the inside. The parents changed spots many times. There were those that you couldnt tell who their kid was by the way they acted. But there were many that felt they has a certain status at the park based on their sons ability. So sad and so pathetic imo. It amazed me how much of a better coach some of these people thought I was when my youngest son came along and was a good player. "Coach can you work with my son?" No one asked me this when my older son was playing and my youngest son had not emerged on the scene yet.

The fact is many parents own self esteem and status at the ball park is related to the way their son is percieved as a ball player. To me it is absolutely pathetic and sad. But it is reality especially at the younger levels of play. I would not allow my youngest son to fall into this trap. Everytime someone tried to tell him he was better than someone else I would shut that talk down. He had friends that were good , average and bad. And he treated them all the same. I did the same thing with everyone I was around and still do.

I am not sure if this relates to this thread or not. You guys know how I have trouble staying on track. But this thread made me think about this stuff.
OLDSLUGGER8OLDSLUGGER81,000+ posts
quote:
I always found it amusing how certain parents had more clout around the ball park based on how talented their kid was. The parents of the lesser talented players are treated as second class citizens at the park. The parents of some of the more talented players walk around with their nose up in the air like they are better than the others.


Never really had this issue on any team we were affiliated with from youth ball and into D1 baseball except once. In fact, quite the opposite. The game is too humbling to cop an attitude, let alone a parent riding the wave of a player.

Have I witnessed it? Yes. During a Fall scout team tour, player full of himself was nothing compared to Pops. Pops couldn't stop bragging about son and his scholarship and the program that spoils their players with jets and steak dinners.

Player struggled and didn't fit in first D1 season, so off to JUCO he went.

Looking back, Pops didn't even realize his son was amongst a group of players who were also very talented. Confused
IB Innocent Bystander500+ posts
Coach May, I've been guilty of that and it really bothered me when I realized what I'd done. It's so easy to want to hang out with parents of the best players and alienate parents of struggling players. We've got 3 levels of the caste, top, middle, and bottom. As civilized as we pretend to be we still struggle with equality, we see where we stand and join our little groups. And if our kids are a little better than most then we obviously deserve it because we're smarter and we work harder, we're not like those other people... Frown
I've been at both ends with the same kid, people who wouldn't give me the time of day suddenly wanted to be my best buddy. The saddest thing is, I've been "those" people.
CM Coach May1,000+ posts
Its very easy fall into. I am not talking about the college level. I have not been around a college program close enough to know of anything like that. I have seen it at some hs baseball programs. Again this is what I observed as my kids were "coming up" in the game.

It does not mean everyone experienced it and if you did not I think thats great.
D Doughnutman1,000+ posts
I have been guilty of it also. But in my defense, the parents of kids that are struggling are usually so stressed out, it is very difficult to talk to them. You walk up to them and it is "my son sucks and I don't know why he is even playing" or even worse, "my son is a great player. Why isn't the coach playing him more?"
I know for a fact that when my son is struggling I am not in a very good mood. Until the game is over. It is one of the many reasons that I don't take a chair to the games and am known as a wanderer.
B BobbleheadDoll5,000+ posts
I never saw it at any level. My son played on as many as 5 teams in a season and can't recal anything like that. I always made my rounds talking to all parents before a game but once the game started I was either behing the camera or sitting with the opponents parents. Some used to say why do you sit with the opposition. I always said I have already picked your brain. Some started to join me. I found it interesting and never said which team my son played for unless they asked.
I also used to drive a player to and from games. It bothered me that he didn't get playing time and was a trailer player. He was told he was there to learn and paid less etc. He just din't have the talent level and the skills came hard. He used to get teary eyed on the way home. His parents never came to any games and the players all felt for him. Near the end of the seson players asked if he could take their spots for a couple innings. My son included. They always pumped him up when he got his chances. They made a big fuss over him when he got a hit etc and tried to make him part of the team. I was proud of them.
S 27"sDad100+ posts
Innocent Bystander,

Don't feel like the Lone Ranger...I've "been there" and "done that" myself...unfortunately.

Coach May is correct, it is an easy pit to fall into. Other parents, and coaches, can help push us there...and our own egos aid us into falling off the edge.

Once you realize it, though, it is fairly easy to change. A walk far enough down the outfield lines, and you're hanging out with the "serious dads" who have been banished from the backstop seats Big Grin.

We all know the ones: at least one ejection from at least one youth league game or tournament. No one else wants to hang out there, so the castes and the comments all go away. Well...not really...but I no longer have to hear them. And we "dads" just nod to each other and "quietly" watch the games.
B BobbleheadDoll5,000+ posts
Facilitator is anyone, thing ,program etc that helps or makes possible, your son to achieve his level of play or goals in BB.
Validate is an award or action that recognizes that achievement. Things like making teams and receiving awards validate the achievement.
Things like Parents, Coaches, Showcases, teams and many other things that help are facilitators.
Dad04Dad045,000+ posts
I read a thread yesterday on another site about a former MLB players sophmore son. His dad is a household name, at least here anyway. The kid did well in a "national" home run derby over the weekend. The boy plays at the lowest high school classification in Florida, 1A, where the level of play usually closely resembles a pick up game of 13 year olds. I winced as several folks predicted greatness "at the next level", whatever that is.
Last edited by Dad04
IB Innocent Bystander500+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
I never saw it at any level. My son played on as many as 5 teams in a season and can't recal anything like that.

Love is blind Big Grin
I only know that I've seen it at every level and obviously I've been part of the problem. Looking back over the years the people I got to know the best were the parents of players like my kids... Didn't try hard enough to get to know and encourage parents who may have needed it most.
rz1rz15,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Coach May:
I always found it amusing how certain parents had more clout around the ball park based on how talented their kid was. The parents of the lesser talented players are treated as second class citizens at the park.

I think one of the advantages of living in an area that is not "baseball rich" is that there is very little of that "class struggle". My seat for HS home games was called section Z, it was located right right past the 3rd base, and were not the best seats in the place. Some might think that was snobbish but it was open to anyone who wanted to WATCH the game and talk baseball. Idle chit-chat about what was on sale at the mall and who was dating who was frowned upon as there were plenty other places to sit.

Nice HS field. We could never fill it up Wink

IMHO, parents themselves create this sub-culture and I don't always think its the parents of the studs who are behind the issues. Many times it the parents of those "lesser-players" who are protecting their own by attempting to create cracks in the studs armor.
Last edited by rz1
ClevelandDadClevelandDadHSBBWeb Administrator
quote:
Originally posted by Coach May:
I always found it amusing how certain parents had more clout around the ball park based on how talented their kid was. The parents of the lesser talented players are treated as second class citizens at the park. The parents of some of the more talented players walk around with their nose up in the air like they are better than the others. It used to be so comical to me to watch this. The dad of the local stud is asked "Could you work with Timmy , Johnny has such a nice swing." The parents of the more talented players hang out together at the park and the lesser talented parents hang together. The better players walk around like they own the park and treat the lesser talented players like they are below them. Now maybe you guys never saw any of this but I did all the time. My oldest son played and he was not very good. I sat back and watched what was going on. I noticed alot and just sat back and watched and was so amused by all of it.

As the kids moved on to HS many of the circumstances started to change. Some on the outside were now on the inside. The parents changed spots many times. There were those that you couldnt tell who their kid was by the way they acted. But there were many that felt they has a certain status at the park based on their sons ability. So sad and so pathetic imo. It amazed me how much of a better coach some of these people thought I was when my youngest son came along and was a good player. "Coach can you work with my son?" No one asked me this when my older son was playing and my youngest son had not emerged on the scene yet.

The fact is many parents own self esteem and status at the ball park is related to the way their son is percieved as a ball player. To me it is absolutely pathetic and sad. But it is reality especially at the younger levels of play. I would not allow my youngest son to fall into this trap. Everytime someone tried to tell him he was better than someone else I would shut that talk down. He had friends that were good , average and bad. And he treated them all the same. I did the same thing with everyone I was around and still do.

I am not sure if this relates to this thread or not. You guys know how I have trouble staying on track. But this thread made me think about this stuff.

I had the same experience Coach May and I live hundreds of miles across the country from you. The way to handle it is to say nothing of course but it irks you nonetheless. Since we were not in the clique, some of these same people would come up to me and ask how much my son's scholarship was. I said we were happy with the amount he got and left it at that. What I wanted to say was why does it matter to you how much he got? So that you can say something snide behind our backs perhaps?

Last year one of the "clique" members came up to me and said with a snide tone "I saw your son play on ESPN - too bad he stuck out!" I wanted to say, "Unlike yours, at least he is a college ballplayer and had a chance to strike out." What I said however was, "Did you notice his next at bat when he had the game winning double?" I also wondered if they noticed the palm trees swaying in the warm southern breeze while he was hitting but I kept that one to myself.
D dswann100+ posts
After the second year in LL the craziness over "Allstars" became insane. The following year my son played out of district Pony bb. A better brand of baseball and with no possiblity of playing on the "Allstar" team was as pure and fun baseball experience as you could hope for. The parents of the studs chatted you up, as well as the lesser players parents because you were not in competiton for an "Allstar" spot.
TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003
Fungo,
Good post, I had made a comment about this recently in another thread. I mentioned that I saw on a website mention of a player who signed D1 and later drafted. I know for a fact that player played one game with them.
They were validating their success with mention of a situation where they had no influence over that player. They provided an opportunity for him to play one game, that's it. This bugs me.

As far as my player, there have been a lot of people who DESERVE credit but don't take it. I don't mind people who make mention of son, most everyone played an inticate part in where he is today. He's had more people interested in helping him succeed than using him to promote themselves or their businesses. That's what counts.JMO.
RJMRJMHSBaseballWeb member since 2007
quote:
I find players' advancements a validation for many people whether or not they had ANYTHING at all to do with that advancement. I find this one of the most unfair things in youth baseball. Very few people like to give most of the credit to the athlete and his innate abilities.
I like to joke around my peers in coaching baseball and basketball, "I didn't screw them up. They thrived in spite of me."

To the parents I'd say, "We're competitive. We'll give the players quality instruction and point them in the right direction. But it's up to the individual to 'want it'."

Along the way most coaches have players they genuinely helped. But it isn't on the field. It's more about straightening out attitudes on life.
Next

Add Reply

Post
.

Membership Required

We're sorry. You must be signed in to continue. Sign In or Register
×
Are you sure you want to remove from your Block List?
×
Loading...
×
When you block a person, they can no longer invite you to a private message or post to your profile wall. Replies and comments they make will be collapsed/hidden by default. Finally, you'll never receive email notifications about content they create or likes they designate for your content.
Note: if you proceed, you will no longer be following .
×
Advanced Search
Advanced Search
Link copied to your clipboard.
×