Your kid goes off to college for his freshman year of college baseball.
There's at least a half dozen possible outcomes to how the experience might go for him and around 85% of them are results that don't align with dreams, hopes or expectations.
True or false?
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Didn't play.
Got cut.
Failed out of school.
Placed on JV or development roster.
Got injured.
Stopped loving the game.
Redshirted.
Partied too much.
Left because homesick.
Played very subpar.
Banged heads with coaching staff.
Too much stress and anxiety.
Hated the campus life.
Got in trouble with the law.
I think I've heard at least one example of each of these from dads of kids who recently went off to play college baseball. Clearly not what people expected when they went off to play college ball.
All false. Played about average for a freshman and got good grades.
"Cannot hit the curve"!!!!
Bob
@Good Knight posted:All false. Played about average for a freshman and got good grades.
That's awesome. But it seems like that's not everyone's experience.
Why would you think of your list instead of practice hard, study hard, be on time to classes, be early and stay late for practice and give your best effort. These are things a student-athlete can control.
@Francis7 posted:Your kid goes off to college for his freshman year of college baseball.
There's at least a half dozen possible outcomes to how the experience might go for him and around 85% of them are results that don't align with dreams, hopes or expectations.
True or false?
Agree with 1st sentence. Disagree with the numbers in the 2nd sentence...definitely more than a half dozen possible outcomes.
Typically college is a huge change in a young person's life. When you put baseball on top of the academics the numbers can change exponentially. First semester freshman year is the rubber hitting the road, and typically that "oh $hit" moment for that student athlete. Making sure there is a support system in place for academics and baseball is absolutely paramount. Maybe my son was the exception but everything about baseball and academics met his dreams, hopes and expectations. He knew it was going to be rough sledding. He didn't know exactly how hard. The only thing left to do was the work. Doing the work is where I see a problem with college programs. Today's college players don't have to buy-in to a program, and can leave after a half-year or year to roll the dice somewhere else. Yes, I realize this is a double-edge sword. I'm a fan of the transfer portal for extreme cases. I wish the NCAA had given the transfer portal more thought.
As always, JMO.
False. Control what you can control. My son is on a great scholarship so he looks at playing baseball as his "job". The amount of money he is getting in scholarships is what he would have to make if he was working an actual job to pay for school. Study hard, keep your head down and do what you are there to do, and get your "job" done and the rest will fall into place.
The first day of every year I walk into my office with hopes, dreams, plans etc and life happens. No different for college baseball or college classes/ grades, girlfriends etc. There is no utility function we can use, too many variables. Just prepare them to work hard, expect challenges and support them through those challenges which will build a good base of experiences for the real world.
@RJM posted:Why would you think of your list instead of practice hard, study hard, be on time to classes, be early and stay late for practice and give your best effort. These are things a student-athlete can control.
For everything on the list, I can assign at least one name of someone I know where it's their story.
I'm sure none of them went into school thinking it could happen to them and they all went into school thinking "I'm into this 100% and I'm going to do what it takes, etc."
That being said, it might be important for parents to realize that there's a high probability that everything your kid has worked for, up to this point, might not turn out the way everyone expects.
And, there is a long list of possibilities as to why.
In my experience the kids who have left the programs seldom had "off the field issues" a couple did but the minority. Most of them that left were because they
- weren't good enough
- didn't want to make the time investment
- or didn't find the team / school / campus life what they wanted or were looking for.
There was very little drama involved in most moves away from the team.
My son just finished his freshman year. His experience:
Loved his team and liked his coaches. Played pretty well when he got the chance. Has been told he will get more playing time in the future. Got good grades and found a girlfriend. All-in-all a successful first year. Not without its ups and downs, but not a bad first year.
@Francis7 posted:For everything on the list, I can assign at least one name of someone I know where it's their story.
I'm sure none of them went into school thinking it could happen to them and they all went into school thinking "I'm into this 100% and I'm going to do what it takes, etc."
That being said, it might be important for parents to realize that there's a high probability that everything your kid has worked for, up to this point, might not turn out the way everyone expects.
And, there is a long list of possibilities as to why.
I have two kids. In addition to my son my daughter (oldest) played college softball. She was motivated by fear. She was so afraid of becoming ineligible she got a 4.0 her first year. She’s the scrapper of my two kids. Holding the best straight face I could I told her, “The bar is set. I expect 4.0 every year.” She graduated with a 3.94 and went on to a top rated law school.
Mr Smooth (has all the answers, falls out of trees landing on his feet scoring a perfect ten) tried having too much fun his first semester. He discovered frat row. He was busted for drinking at a football tailgate party. Fortunately it didn’t get back to the athletic department. When he asked for $500 for the alcohol awareness class (to erase the charge) I told him no. It left him a bit short of cash the rest of the year. He learned actions have consequences. He got a 2.7 his first semester. I told him if he didn’t get a 3.3 the second semester he would lose his 50% academic ride. He would have to come home. I wouldn’t have done it. The warning scared him straight. He got a 3.5 the second semester. I told him that’s the bar. He was focused from that point forward. He graduated with a 3.6.
Half of his travel teammates transferred. Only one flunked out. He majored in partying. Those who transferred reached too high. They took the dream option rather than the thought through option. That sad thing is the kid who flunked out started from day one at a ranked program. He was the top pro prospect from my son’s travel team class.
Ironically, my son followed in my footsteps. I had too much fun fall of freshman year. I got a 2.7. I didn’t get any threats from parents. But, I knew I was better than my gpa. I got more serious about school. From my experience I sensed my son was BSing me all fall. I wasn’t shocked when he showed his grades.
Francis7, how many parents of players do you know who stayed on the team? Because sure, there might be 12 bad outcomes, but it's very different if you are comparing it to 50 good outcomes or 10 good outcomes.
I decided to follow 35 kids (HS '19) my son played with, who went to all levels from P5 to juco. Three years on, 9 or 10 so far are out of baseball, for one reason or another - some injury, some their choice, most I don't know. The rest, last I looked, are still playing - some at their original schools, some not, and some are in the portal now. Some have gotten playing time, and some haven't. For sure the ones who originally were P5 commits have had it the toughest.
So, is 9 out of 35 good, or bad? Keeping in mind that these kids were all hit by covid, too.
For sure, there are kids who make it all 4 years. You see it on every roster. I think people see them and think it's easy to get through the 4 years. Yet, I have heard about many who don't make it past freshman.
I follow my '17 and '19 kids' HS teammates and they've been pretty fortunate: none of them have been cut or quit before the clock ran out, although Covid and lily-livered college admin decisions cut two years from four kids' playing careers. Thank you, Vassar, Bowdoin, Bates and Amherst.
A few started every year they could play, the rest hung in there as subs and backups, and a couple played club ball for UCSB and UCSD. The UCSD kid has the distinction of both being the starting pitcher in the HS state championship game, which his team won AND pitching a perfect game for the UCSC club team.
@smokeminside posted:I follow my '17 and '19 kids' HS teammates and they've been pretty fortunate: none of them have been cut or quit before the clock ran out, although Covid and lily-livered college admin decisions cut two years from four kids' playing careers. Thank you, Vassar, Bowdoin, Bates and Amherst.
A few started every year they could play, the rest hung in there as subs and backups, and a couple played club ball for UCSB and UCSD. The UCSD kid has the distinction of both being the starting pitcher in the HS state championship game, which his team won AND pitching a perfect game for the UCSC club team.
cut them a break smoke those schools were busy saving the lives of all of those kids....for 2 years
Add in "Didn't really want to play or love the game, but was doing so to appease his parent(s)" - remember it's not your expectations/hopes/dreams - it's your child's. At times it's very hard to discern the difference between the two. I've been around some dads in the stands who were attempting to relive their youth through their child.
@smokeminside posted:I follow my '17 and '19 kids' HS teammates and they've been pretty fortunate: none of them have been cut or quit before the clock ran out, although Covid and lily-livered college admin decisions cut two years from four kids' playing careers. Thank you, Vassar, Bowdoin, Bates and Amherst.
A few started every year they could play, the rest hung in there as subs and backups, and a couple played club ball for UCSB and UCSD. The UCSD kid has the distinction of both being the starting pitcher in the HS state championship game, which his team won AND pitching a perfect game for the UCSC club team.
Smoke, how some schools and conferences responded (no... reacted) to COVID completely changed the way my son looked at them. This board was a wealth of information in learning where 2023 fit. Thanks to all; especially adbono and tbpt.
A college playing career rarely goes as planned. My son's didn't either, but he stuck it out for four years, had highs and lows, and graduated with a 3.75 GPA. He was on a 40 year plan, not a 4 year plan. He had the option to come back for a 5th year (covid) and most likely be big contributor, but chose to hang up the spikes. It was time to move on with life.
You have to remember, as a Freshman, you're the young buck. You're competing with guys that have been there done that, they have experience. They also have "money in the bank" with coaches, their trust. You have none of that, you have to prove it. It's a tough thing for a Freshman to deal with and realize. But if you stick it out for a year or two (again, the big picture, using baseball to get a quality education, 40 year plan), you're now the guy that has been there done that and has money in the bank, you're the guy that the coach turns to when it's on the line.
Two words of advice for a college Freshman...patience grasshopper.
A lot of college baseball players grew up dominating the game in their town. People have known who they are since Little League. They were labeled “heir apparent” before getting to high school. They were the big fish in the pond.
Even playing in a competitive travel environment they’re still the cream of the crop in the big picture. Then, they get to college ball. It’s 22u ball (in the moment it’s 24u). Now, with the exception of a handful of top pro prospect exceptions they’re just another fish in a big ocean.
Even some of the big fish (top prospects) fail at the big time college level. I met (more know of than know) a kid who went off to a top ranked program as a top prospect. He got homesick. Everything about being away from home crashed down on him. He hit about .120 before getting buried on the bench. He 4-2-4’ed within 150 miles of home, resumed being a stud and was drafted.
Played a little
Learned to work harder than ever
Discovered what being a college athlete means in the weight room
Made adjustments in swing to fit the college game
Developed incredible bonds with teammates. Deep friendships
Found a way to make an impact on the field by the end of the season
Really enjoyed some of the classes
In the mix for a bigger role for Sophomore year
so I would say:False
I feel like this question has come up before but here’s my experience.
In juco almost half the kids on the fall team get cut when they bring the roster down to 30 something for the season. The story from the parents runs the gamut, but I’ve never heard “My son was cut”. Of the kids that made the cut, most all made it the full two years unless something very serious happened, like criminal charges or a death of a parent. Grades were never an issue, if your grades started to slip, you spent your evenings studying with the others in your position with an assistant coach and nobody wanted that…
Arkansas was a little different, although they closely monitor grades and class attendance too. (Sidetrack: coming from 2 years of juco to a program like Arkansas, my son was incredibly thankful for all aspects of the differences – food quality, facilities and technology – many that start in P5 D1’s are oblivious to the advantages). At Arkansas, if you don’t perform or progress, you don’t stay on the team. If you or your parents butt heads with the coaching staff you won’t play and you’ll eventually leave (saw this a couple times, including a freshman that was a juco first rounder the following year).
This was 2015 – 2017 and I’m sure the portal has changed the dynamics, but this is what I experienced.
As usual @JucoDad was spot on in his description of the JuCo experience. But as for the OP, there are an infinite number of things that impact the outcome of a player’s freshman year. Some kids have good to great outcomes. My son’s freshman year couldn’t have gone any better. Literally. Part of the reason why is that we really did our homework. The culture of any program begins and ends with the HC. We knew the HC was a good man - well respected and treated his kids fairly. Area MLB scouts told me that. We knew that the school had a winning culture. We knew they recruited good kids from good families. We knew that they didn’t over recruit. We knew the academics were very good by Juco standards - which are better than many people think. We took the HC at his word when he told my son if he committed that he wouldn’t bring in another recruit at the 3B position. And he was true to his word. So we knew that there would be immediate opportunity for playing time. We knew that players liked it there. We asked them and they told us. We knew this JuCo had a good history of advancing their players to good 4 year programs. We knew that there wasn’t a lot of roster turnover. And on and on. I really believe that if people did a better job of fact finding up front they would make better choices and would have better outcomes
^^^^^^
This, at ALL levels.
Some of you will cringe on this but 2020 was a great year for youngest son. He had broken his ankle day after last practice of 2019 fall so he needed to heal and develop a trust in the healed ankle. He got enough innings to understand the difference between HS ball and P5 ball or D1 ball. He had earned a right in the fall to be seen as a two way guy and time on the mound and I think he would have gotten time at bat. He used the Covid time to do everything he was supposed to do. He came home and worked out every day, threw and hit like he was asked to. Went back fall 2021 a better player. Most guys hated Covid but it may have been the difference for my son to compete. Sad part is I think 2020 UT team was better than this year's team. As I have preached on here, we did our homework after the first experience below. We interviewed the coaching staff as much as they interviewed us.
Middle son went to The Citadel so his freshman year was a trainwreck off the field. Getting used to knob life and the stuff they make you do. His time on the field was good as he was the Saturday starter and got freshman all conference. It went downhill from there on the field as the team could not close out games so he got bounced from starting to bullpen and his velo went down with PC at the time not wanting to long toss or throw bullpens between starts.
@Francis7 posted:Didn't play.
Got cut.
Failed out of school.
Placed on JV or development roster.
Got injured.
Stopped loving the game.
Redshirted.
Partied too much.
Left because homesick.
Played very subpar.
Banged heads with coaching staff.
Too much stress and anxiety.
Hated the campus life.
Got in trouble with the law.
I think I've heard at least one example of each of these from dads of kids who recently went off to play college baseball. Clearly not what people expected when they went off to play college ball.
Francis,
My kids went off to college a while ago but I can tell you that the above list is pretty accurate as to things that can occur while college students are away from home...then and now.
My daughter started and ended college at 2 years of Juco. More school wasn't for her. She did however find her passion and was very successful.
The best part of playing a sport in college is having a support system with people who want to see you succeed. They have seen it all and are prepared. Getting kids passed freshman year is a big challenge for coaches.
So I am in agreement that who will be your son's or daughters coaches will make a huge positive impact on their lives. The coaching staff should be a very important part of the decision. The in state program that was highest on sons list was a big party school. He felt it wasn't a good fit and really disliked the HC. So he chose another party school but loved the coaching staff. We did as well. Felt that they would keep him out of trouble in and out of the classroom.
But kids are kids. A lot of "stuff" happens that parents aren't often aware of. College for many is first time away from home.
I am not sure of your statement that things clearly not what was expected but I can say that probably more than likely would be true for the examples that you gave.
@Francis7 posted:Banged heads with coaching staff.
That's the kid. One of the assistance coaches was a Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. Super nice recruiting, absolute dick once on campus. When a kid is his own worst critic there's a big difference between "you can play better" and "you suck". You know you are in the wrong place when you have to tell a coach he better think long and hard about the next words that come out of his mouth. Kid ended up at a school with a coach that was known to be "old school" and is back to his old self.
@baseballmom01 posted:False. Control what you can control. My son is on a great scholarship so he looks at playing baseball as his "job". The amount of money he is getting in scholarships is what he would have to make if he was working an actual job to pay for school. Study hard, keep your head down and do what you are there to do, and get your "job" done and the rest will fall into place.
I just want to say that the quote above is not always100% true. My son just went through 3 years at a school where he studied hard, did what he was there to do, got his job done, and the rest did NOT fall into place. We have NO IDEA why things didn't work. Lost his scholarship after 2 years because he wasn't pitching enough. Was told if he came back, worked hard he would get more innings, just on dad's dime the next year. 3rd year, same stuff, different year. Late in the year made it known he was headed to the portal, all of a sudden innings happened, son performed as expected, strong last month to season...entered the portal and was picked up 3 days later. Sometimes things just don't go as per your plans no matter how hard you work. College baseball has way more factors to it than that!
@2019Lefty21 posted:I just want to say that the quote above is not alwats100% true. My son just went through 3 years at a school where he studied hard, did what he was there to do, got his job done, and the rest did NOT fall into place. We have NO IDEA why things didn't work. Lost his scholarship after 2 years because he wasn't pitching enough. Was told if he came back, worked hard he would get more innings, just on dad's dime the next year. 3rd year, same stuff, different year. Late in the year made it known he was headed to the portal, all of a sudden innings happened, son performed as expected, strong last month to season...entered the portal and was picked up 3 days later. Sometimes things just don't go as per your plans no matter how hard you work. College baseball has way more factors to it than that!
Bingo!
@2019Lefty21 posted:I just want to say that the quote above is not alwats100% true. My son just went through 3 years at a school where he studied hard, did what he was there to do, got his job done, and the rest did NOT fall into place. We have NO IDEA why things didn't work. Lost his scholarship after 2 years because he wasn't pitching enough. Was told if he came back, worked hard he would get more innings, just on dad's dime the next year. 3rd year, same stuff, different year. Late in the year made it known he was headed to the portal, all of a sudden innings happened, son performed as expected, strong last month to season...entered the portal and was picked up 3 days later. Sometimes things just don't go as per your plans no matter how hard you work. College baseball has way more factors to it than that!
So it ended up working out for him? Sounds like his "job" wasn't at that school and it ended up falling into place where he actually belonged.
Once entering college the player will have the demands of 1. academics, 2. sport and 3. social life. There is only time for two of them. Choose wisely!
@baseballmom01 posted:So it ended up working out for him? Sounds like his "job" wasn't at that school and it ended up falling into place where he actually belonged.
Agreed! But it was like wasting 3 years earning minimum wage when you have a masters degree!lol. Just want people to understand that there are lots of things in college baseball that putting in the work and being committed to academics, athletics and team may still not be enough to make things happen when you think it should
There seems to be a misconception that it has to work out for everyone the first time around.
How many people change jobs or even their profession until they find the right fit? Or marry and find out it wasn't the right match in the first place?
A player can work his butt off to be ready, do everything right, but unfortunately there might be 34 others doing the same thing.
There are coaches that don't give players a chance. There are players that get lots of attention and playing time but feel they could do even better somewhere else.
Some are just realistic and decide to move on while coaches are continually working hard so they can move up. That's the way it is in most professions.
2019Lefty21 glad to hear things worked out for your son.
@2019Lefty21 "Agreed! But it was like wasting 3 years earning minimum wage when you have a masters degree!lol."
Ha!! Very true! 
@TPM posted:There seems to be a misconception that it has to work out for everyone the first time around.
How many people change jobs or even their profession until they find the right fit? Or marry and find out it wasn't the right match in the first place?
A player can work his butt off to be ready, do everything right, but unfortunately there might be 34 others doing the same thing.
There are coaches that don't give players a chance. There are players that get lots of attention and playing time but feel they could do even better somewhere else.
Some are just realistic and decide to move on while coaches are continually working hard so they can move up. That's the way it is in most professions.
2019Lefty21 glad to hear things worked out for your son.
TPM: Thank you I appreciate that, and you are 100% correct, and for the benefit of the rest of you, she tried to warn me about all this when my son was a freshman but things like that happen to other peoples kids not mine....yeah right! So I guess more than anything else, we as parents need to know, they happen to our kids too no matter how good a kid you have or how hard they work! Thanks again TPM
@baseballmom01 posted:So it ended up working out for him? Sounds like his "job" wasn't at that school and it ended up falling into place where he actually belonged.
But this is in contrast to the negative posts regarding the transfer portal. Those posts implies that as long as the player works hard, is coachable, patient, willing to wait his turn, etc, they should stick it out and no reason for the transfer portal (this is assuming that the player has the skillset appropriate for the level he is at).
@2019Lefty21 posted:TPM: Thank you I appreciate that, and you are 100% correct, and for the benefit of the rest of you, she tried to warn me about all this when my son was a freshman but things like that happen to other peoples kids not mine....yeah right! So I guess more than anything else, we as parents need to know, they happen to our kids too no matter how good a kid you have or how hard they work! Thanks again TPM
You are welcome.
Yup, things don't always work out. You can do everything to succeed, but stuff happens. It took son a while to realize the struggle was real as a professional.
So although some think I don't get it, I do. What happened to your son will make him a better adult.
As I always taught my kids.... if you fall flat on your face, get up, wipe off the dirt and change direction!
@Francis7 posted:Your kid goes off to college for his freshman year of college baseball.
There's at least a half dozen possible outcomes to how the experience might go for him and around 85% of them are results that don't align with dreams, hopes or expectations.
True or false?
False. Son worked hard his freshman year, passed all his classes and after the fall season his coaches told him he was a "pleasant surprise."
My two older boys are in the 15% group of kids where things worked out, though, as for everyone, Covid had its bully say, too. All are D3, so there's that.
Oldest beat out the senior heir apparent and started in CF all freshman and sophomore years. Jr. yr. Covid hit, career over due to admin decisions (as you all have heard from me ad nauseam). But he LOVED freshman year: the school, his teammates, his coaches, the academics, the other extracurriculars (use your imagination), the whole nine innings of his experience.
Middle boy also beat out heir apparent but it didn't matter until Jr. year because his frosh/soph years the school chose not to field teams in any sport due to Covid (as you all have heard from me ad nauseam). I went to Florida to watch him play on their 2020 spring break trip and ended up bringing him home halfway through it. He loved the baseball stuff, but was very unhappy otherwise. Did well academically but wished the school had legit helmet sports like hockey or football. Says those teams provide "seasoning" for the student body. In his view, they tend to be "better" partiers, don't give two cents about political stuff, they like to fish and can appreciate a good tattoo, or two. He's not seeing that with that with the fencing or squash teams. Hasn't met any equestrians yet, so maybe that will change, since they do wear helmets. The good news is he was very happy being there this year, which was a huge relief to his mom and me. I was a military brat so I moved a lot and liked it. He had lived in the same house his whole life and he really hated being so far away from home.
Youngest is heading off to the Great White North in about a month for his first year of college. His school did try to play through COVID in 2021. Not a full slate of games but at least they got on the field. He's going somewhere where he knows NO ONE, so the baseball group will be really important to him. We got lucky and had dinner here with his coach who is visiting the islands for his tenth wedding anniversary. Son got to sit next to the coach, who is 40-ish and a very cordial, kinda with-it guy. Son did great and rest of us just tried to not embarrass ourselves. So, I'm cautiously optimistic about his first year. We'll see.
Realisitcally there is no limit to what can happen....each year/day. Sometimes what initally looks like a bad result turns out great and vice versa, however its up to each player to make the most of his or her journey/struggle. You have to believe he'll learn something for life that will helpful. and not dwell on the negatives or what could have been. You should go where you will play or move on with life with no regrets. its pretty much guranteed to not happen how you think it wll.
Son's D1 coach didn't believe in him, probley would have cut him year 1 except he caught bullpens. Coach didn't get him on a summer team, had to have a scout help him find a summer team. Very disappointing and concerning Coach then told him his junior year he would be a backup, Did he double down to show the coach he was wrong?
No, he left for a JC. It worked out pretty good. Just the same he is still good friends with players from his intial school, not a complete loss! Goes fishing with the scout who found him a summer team. You still need to socialize a bit, it can't be 100% work, there is more to the school experience.
It really is like a job. Find a place you like to work.
I think everything depends on the student. I know many students who managed to combine sports and studies. And succeeded in both
Eight Players from our Santa Rosa, California Summer "19u" team, immediately played at the local JC during their Freshman year.
The Big 8 League is one of the strongest JC baseball League's in USA.
The SRJC team finished 3rd in the State.
"Pre College Competition is the key to success"! If a player desires to play 1st or 2nd year please consider the "stepping stone of a JC.
Bob
Just like every course of life, there will be curve balls (pun intended) freshman year. Mine dealt with a shoulder injury and the death of his brother right before his freshman year. Luckily, he was with a coach that cared about him and helped him cope with both. Going, literally, where they love you is the best advice you can get with a player going into freshman year.
So glad to hear that your son is coping as best as he can and has a coach that is helping in the process.
Too many people here complain about coaches. It's a really tough gig and some are better at it than others.
Wishing your son lots of success going forward.
@edcoach I cannot imagine the pain...I am so very sorry for your loss. I think it is easy to forget just how many wonderful human beings there are out there and I am so glad that your son's coach is one of them! Hopefully he has an amazing sophomore year.
@Consultant posted:Eight Players from our Santa Rosa, California Summer "19u" team, immediately played at the local JC during their Freshman year.
The Big 8 League is one of the strongest JC baseball League's in USA.
The SRJC team finished 3rd in the State.
"Pre College Competition is the key to success"! If a player desires to play 1st or 2nd year please consider the "stepping stone of a JC.
Bob
THE GROWING INFLUENCE OF THE JUCO PIPELINE by Keep Playing Baseball
thanks guys. Sometimes life has a tendency to show us what is really important and what is not as important.
