For which pitcher do we count this run?

2nd pitcher. Guy hit the double off the 2nd pitcher and wound up scoring.

Bazeballgirl,

 

I know this won’t help you directly, but you might be able to incorporate it somehow. What my scoring program does, is puts the pitcher’s ID# right in the batting, pitching, defensive, and scoresheet records. That way there’s never any doubt about which pitcher any given run is charged to. I assume you’re using a traditional scorebook, but you can do much the same thing pretty easily using the technique I did when I was still using paper and pencil to score games.

 

Somewhere in the little box for the hitter, put the pitcher’s number, name, or anything else that will identify the pitcher on the mound when he reached base. Then when you go over the book to see who to charge runs too, all you have to do is look at that identifier. Its really a pretty simple fix.

 

Good luck.

2nd pitcher.  Pitcher 1's guy is out at home if I read this correctly meaning the only run that could count toward him did not score.

Bottom line is, a runner that scores is the responsibility of the pitcher that allowed him to get on base. It doesn't matter who was pitching when he actually scored.

bballman: thanks for your explanation. But what would you do in the following situation. Runner on first. Pitcher change. Next batter reaches first on fielders choice as first runner is out 64. Third batter hits a double and the runner from first scorers. I was always tought that this run counts for the first pitcher.

No.  2nd pitcher.  The first runner if he scored would have been charged to the 1st pitcher, but he was out on the FC.  The batter reached on the FC after the pitching change and eventually scored so that run would be charged to the 2nd pitcher.   Had the batter been out on the FC, the 1st runner if he scores on the next hit, would be charged to the 1st pitcher.

 

Remember, as bballman correctly stated, the run is charged to the pitcher who was on the mound when the batter got on base whether it be by a hit, error, walk, or HBP.  

If you are really bored you can pull out the Rules of Baseball and go to Rule 10.18 and this exact scenario is in Example 2:

 

Player A walks.  P2 relieves P1.  Player B forces A at 2nd.  C grounds out Sending B to 2nd, D singles scoring B.  Run is charged to P1.

 

Bazeballgirl your instincts on this one are correct based on the OBR.

Wow, learn something new every day.  I don't recall ever seeing this scored this way.  My son is a pitcher and I always follow how things are scored and I've never seen it.  I don't remember it being scored that way in an MLB game either.  Maybe I've just never noticed it, but really don't recall seeing it.

It seems strange but...

 

Rule 10.16(g) Comment: It is the intent of Rule 10.16(g) to charge each pitcher with the
number of runners he put on base, rather than with the individual runners.

 

P1 had a runner on when he left.  The fact that the specific runner he put on was out on the FC does not remove his responsibility for a runner.  However if the runner that he left on was picked off or caught stealing, then he would no longer be responsible for a runner.

 

I'll agree, you learn something new every day.  I would have charged the run to the pitcher that let him on. Lesson learned.

 

Rob, have you ever seen it scored that way?

Curious to see if Stats has scored it this way, or if it kind of an obscure rule that is not commonly used?

I was curious and had to look it up.  I would have scored it they way you described....until now.  I was actually a little surprised myself but if you think about it, it makes sense in its way. 

 

P1 put the guy on, if he wasn't there, P2 would not have surrendered that run.  So P1 takes the weight of him being there so the scoring becomes the same as any other inherited runner that comes around and scores.

I don't really recall ever seeing it scored that way.  I don't do a ton of scorekeeping, but I still try to keep all of the rules in mind when I do so.

 

It has always been my belief that the pitcher who allows a runner to reach base is responsible for that runner, but apparently this is an exception to that concept.

 

I guess it would be interesting to see how an official scorer in the MLB would handle it, but I have no idea how you could search to find a game where such a scenario played out.

I am thinking the logic is that P2 didn't put the runner there.  He recorded an out and the base runners "swapped out" but it is still a runner in the position he inherited him. 

 

I have been watching and talking about baseball for 45 years and never had this specific question come up before and never thought about it while watching a game to notice it.  But I'll bet I have seen force plays at 2nd hundreds of times over the years after relievers entered. 

 

 

Yeah, I'm sure it's happened.  I'm going to watch for this in upcoming games and see if I can see if there is a book, or at least see who the run was allocated to.  ESPN ScoreCenter will show play by play and then show a pitcher's line, so I may be able to figure it out from there.  I guess it makes sense, but I'm a little surprised so many baseball people were unaware of this scoring.  Especially me!!  

It’s amazing how strong the innate response of fighting change, which includes admitting when one was wrong about something, is. Even when faced with the black and white proof that there was something about scoring that I hadn’t interpreted correctly or even considered, the 1^st thing I did was try to find out where what I was shown was wrong. But I finally had to admit to myself that another epiphany had made its way into my little world.

 

As many times as I’ve read through 10.16, and it’s been a lot, I can’t remember ever reading each example in the 10.16(g) comment in depth. Granted, many of the comments in OBR haven’t been around as long as I have, but that’s no excuse. I’ve always just done it wrong. Actually, though, I don’t know that I’ve ever done it wrong, but my suspicion is that somewhere along the line, I’ve screwed this one up. Something this points out is, runs allowed are much different than earned runs allowed.

 

This is something that will likely become much more of an “issue” than in years past, especially in the ML, because I believe managers are using more relief pitchers than ever before. Here’s an example. Even though in last night’s Twins/Indians game each starter went 5 full, the Tribe used 4 more pitchers in 3 innings, and the Twinkies used 4 in 4 more innings, and I suspect that’s becoming more common all the time.

 

In just yesterday’s 12 games there were of course 24 starting pitchers, but there were 72 other pitchers, and I can guarantee that not all of them threw from the begging of an inning to the end, so there were plenty of opportunities for this anomaly to take place. I don’t know if it did or not, but I’m saying its more likely in MLB today than in years past when starting pitchers threw longer and reliever were expected to throw to more than 1 batter.

 

Oh well. This isn’t the 1^st time I’ve made a mistake, and it certainly won’t be the last either! Sometimes learning can be a humbling event.

 

 

Glad to see I wasn't the only one Stats!!  Haha.  Like I said before, I don't remember ever seeing this applied even in the ML.  I know they haven't scored it this way in my son's college games for sure.  Now I have a mission to see if they are scoring it correctly in the MLB.  I'm REALLY curious.

You can't penalize the relief pitcher for getting a ground ball out that would've kept his batter from reaching base should he not have inherited a baserunner. 10.18 ensures this doesn't happen.