formally apply to schools before commitment?

I thought all colleges were academic schools. (and they are). That said, if it were me I would apply now unless you think he needs a push from baseball to get admitted. If that is the case, I would wait (unless you are unsure a baseball opportunity will be forthcoming).

We always recommend to our players thzat they apply to the colleges of their choice as if there was no baseball in the picture--this does two things---it gets you into the admission process early and secondly shows the coach you have interest in their school

You're right. I meant top academic schools. Some of the schools son is interested in he, most likely can get in without a baseball "push". Others, probably not. On the latter schools, if the coach does express interest after he's already applied, does the coach then connect with the admissions office, preferably before Dec. 15 when they send out their responses. I figured that between now and the 2nd signing period, anything can happen; kids choose another school,get injured....etc. so it would be best to get the application in. How does it normally work with most schools? Does the coach give you an offer and then tell you to apply?

It depends on the school. The coach probably will not make any kind of a push unless an offer has been extended. And some schools -- particularly state schools -- don't want to know if there is an athletic connection, at least from the player. It's nearly always best if the player can get in on his own and if he already has applied.

I also was questioning this in another thread, so I'm glad you started a fresh thread.

2010's are approaching that time of year that they need to apply to colleges. Those players that have no baseball offers on the table need to cover themselves by applying to several colleges. My son will be choosing his top 5-6 colleges that he wants to attend if baseball were not involved.

I believe that if a baseball offer came from a college that he didn't apply to, that coach would then help guide him through the late application process. I would avoid early decision/early action applications. This is for students that, if accepted, know they would attend that school. It kind of limits your ability to entertain a baseball offer next spring.

I would appreciate it if others that have been down this road would comment on this. What I posted above is what I've decided to do strictly from researching it. Any actual experiences would be really helpful.

Yes they are all academic. Some have higher admittance requirements and that isn't always measured by GPA and test scores.
I have seen high GPA/Score guys not get into a college of their choice. It is advisable to get some early acceptances just in case. Maybe they got bumped by a BB guy who got preferential treatment ?? Who knows.
BB coaches can get you accepted even if it is after the cutoff dates. Just because you get accepted doesn't mean you are locked into that college. My son had his acceptance, student number and he turned it down after getting an offer he wanted. You should apply to several colleges and if you get a chance to get a BB offer, let the coach handle it. He will check out all sources of funding including academic money and put a package together for you.
You could actually have great academics and get turned down. I think the coach could get that reversed but I always think it is best to have the coachh handle it.

Seeing hsbbwebfan's post, are the Ivy League schools pretty much done with the 2010s or would there still be a few spots left?

My son just filled out a few DIII apps, and from what I read on the forms, the "early action" app does not require a commitment to attend, whereas the "early decision" does.

You are correct. ED is binding whereas EA is not. I don't think there is any advantage to ED or EA unless you have support from the coach. The admission statistics of ED and EA at these schools are skewed by athletic admits. If your ED or EA application is rejected and not deferred, I don't know if there is anyway to undo that if you later get support from the coach. My son applied RD to his safety schools, where baseball was not an option, and applied ED to his first choice baseball school with support from the coach. Feel free to PM me for any other info that you need. We just went through this process last year.

What if my son applies for EA and then contacts the interested coach during/after the fact? We thought by applying EA it showed a sincere interest in the school. Also, alot of these apps. for EA are free to process saving quite a bit of money if my son applies to 6 schools.The deadline is approaching and not sure exactly what to do now.

son's now been in contact with coaches. First choice Ivy league school,coach wants him on team, but he has to be admitted first. coach can help somewhat, but already used up his "slots" with admissions. Has to apply early decision won't know whether accepted until December 15. 2nd school, great academic D3, coach will push him through admissions but needs to apply early action. Third school, D1 offering a recruited walk on since no more baseball money left but can give academic money, have to apply early action. If he applies early decision to the Ivy league, than the coaches from the other 2 schools will know if he gets in, its binding. Will the other coaches wait for decision? Figure it's a 50/50 shot for admission to the Ivy. Even though, it's top choice, son doesn't want to lose the other options if he doesn't get in.

Why is the Ivy his top choice ?

because he knows he has more of a chance succeeding in life with an ivy league degree than from baseball and that he never would have even had that opportunity without baseball. Loves the school and the location

If he loves the school that is good. What does he love about the school ? How did he fall in love with this school ?
Getting an Lvy degree will open doors as do most college degrees but you have to keep the door open. Most Human Resource people have seen hundreds if not thousands of college grads. They know better than to just look at prestige school grads.

While this is the premier site for baseball issues – from t-ball all the way through pro-ball, it seems that several threads continually debate the academic/baseball equation. As several posters have pointed out “not one size fits all.” To me this means that whatever decision is made – jc, NAIA, div 1, 2, 3, high school straight to pro ball, that decision should be as well reasoned as a player and his family can make it. So many factors go into the decision mix that each decision is basically unique. These threads provoke debate and offer great insights from so many people (players, coaches and parents) with so many varied views. Without these varied points of view (often colored by our own, or our players experiences) I cannot imagine staggering through the process alone and unguided – and I am thankful that these people share their perspectives with me.

In this thread, the never ending (and unanswerable) question of “prestige” has raised its head. (I confess that I am a product of a very large state school and have never felt impeded in any way, shape or form in achieving my personal goals.)

I assume that everyone can agree that a student can learn -- and learn very very well --at every school in the USA. “Learning,” however, is only one measure of doors which will open future options. “Connections” are another measure – and the connections a player makes on his college team travel with him the rest of his life (of course all connections whether made in college or elsewhere do the same.). And there are many other attributes which can be the yardstick. If only it were so that the level of “learning” one achieved in college (any college) was the yardstick by which one was measured in the area outside of baseball (but, why should that be the sole yardstick; how about the ability to communicate; or the ability to invent things; or the ability to empathize with your fellow man; or the myriad of other attributes that make up a person?)

It is impossible to quantify what allows a person to succeed – in part because we all measure success differently (money, happiness, spirituality?) and in part because your actions today are affecting a future that is yet to unfold. Anecdotal evidence abounds; but each person and family ultimately walks down the road of life alone, choosing from options which appear uniquely for each person/family.

Sorry about this long sermon, but I leave you with this link from an old Wall Street Journal article about life outside of baseball and how the attendance at a “prestige” undergraduate institution does indeed impact the potential future choices of a student:
http://wsjclassroom.com/pdfs/wsj_college_092503.pdf
Anecdotal evidence aside, certain schools open more graduate school doors then other schools. This does not indicate success or failure in life – it just indicates the chances of getting into these grad schools. (Conversely, I doubt that most of these schools open as many baseball doors as schools not on the list. And, in the end, we are a baseball site!)

I am not debating that the Ivy league is the only road to success for college bound players. What I was trying to emphasize was that if your son was in a fortunate position to consider attending an Ivy League, a reality that would have only been possible with baseball, I think most parents would feel privileged that their son would have that opportunity. Ivy league presents the best of both worlds a D1 playing experience that is structured around academics and a diploma that indeed does open doors and not only for grad school admissions as the WSJ article indicates but also for future employment. In the end, according to this site, Less than eleven in 100, or about 10.5 percent, of NCAA senior male baseball players will get drafted by a Major League Baseball (MLB) team. That's not even the number that make it to the majors. Indeed this is a baseball site but why not make a decision that, probability-wise, will affect more than four years of your life. Not knocking other schools just trying to say if you have a chance through baseball to attend an ivy league that would not have been possible otherwise, to consider it a privilege. Also, for some parents depending on their income, it can actually cost less than other top academic schools because of their need-based policies in which the balance of what the school determines you cannot pay is picked up 100% by their endowments.

If you can get an Ivy needs based grant that makes your cost of attending and your son would enjoy the Ivy setting then go for it. If your son passes on the other schools because he is locked into the Ivy thought, and he doesn't get in, then it would be a shame.
I think thinking an Ivy grad is a lock when it comes to job opportunity can be a mistake.
About 6 years ago a Friend of mt son went to Harvard and it cost him 50 grand a year US. I have a friend who is at Harvard doing his PHD and they are paying him. They wooed him like a athletic star as did Princeton and Yale.
I have a friend who went to Penn State many years ago because he wanted a PHD in farming mushrooms. It was 5 times as expensive as a local college in Guelph Ontario. He lamented that he should have gone to Guelph and the to grad school at Penn State.

hsbbwebfan,
Actually this site was designed to help HS players in the recruiting process. The whole concept of it is that simple.
Yes, this is a bb site, but the ultimate intended goal is to obtain a college scholarship. If baseball helps you to achieve that goal, that's a plus!
I feel that many of your comments are appropriate, and I am not going to debate them. My son had a lot of good opportunities and there were many different types of schools and programs he considered, some from very fine academic institutions. We have had some hsbbwebsters sons attend some very prestigious academic schools, and some have gone onto play baseball after they earned their degree, so not sure it is appropriate to talk down that IVY league undergraduate degree.
As far as obtaining a degree, yes, one can do that anywhere, but I do agree that for graduate school entry consideration, it does make a difference in where you attended. That's not something we discuss here much (graduate school), not sure if many of our sons have gone on to graduate school, but as many college graduates are finding out (with or without baseball) 4 years of college may not cut it in some professions. As goosegg (good post by the way) has mentioned, our children are moving forward into very unchartered water for financial opportunities and I know that I would want mine to have the best choices available, with or without that baseball experience.
This is a personal decision which has been and will be debated forever. You are correct about most not ever making it to MLB, some do, but for a brief period, not too many get chances at those million dollar contracts or bonus dollars. My son plays professional ball, but has no degree, that has been a recurring discussion in our home, he has some money put away and college paid for, but it's going to be difficult to go back to South Carolina to finish his degree.
No matter how many stories you hear about those that attended Ivy League schools and it was a bust, there are plenty that have and it has been profitable as well as rewarding.

quote:

Originally posted by TPM:
hsbbwebfan,
As far as obtaining a degree, yes, one can do that anywhere, but I do agree that for graduate school entry consideration, it does make a difference in where you attended. That's not something we discuss here much (graduate school), not sure if many of our sons have gone on to graduate school, but as many college graduates are finding out (with or without baseball) 4 years of college may not cut it in some professions.

FWIW: I had this conversation this past year with with a Professor who heads up a dept at UCSD who sits on a board that decides, who's admitted to grad school an who's not. Question. Stanford grad with a 3.2 gpa and State U grad with a 3.5. Both have similiar test scores , who gets the green light for grad school? State U. "Professors are Professors"

quote:

Originally posted by dswann:

quote:

Originally posted by TPM:
hsbbwebfan,
As far as obtaining a degree, yes, one can do that anywhere, but I do agree that for graduate school entry consideration, it does make a difference in where you attended. That's not something we discuss here much (graduate school), not sure if many of our sons have gone on to graduate school, but as many college graduates are finding out (with or without baseball) 4 years of college may not cut it in some professions.

FWIW: I had this conversation this past year with with a Professor who heads up a dept at UCSD who sits on a board that decides, who's admitted to grad school an who's not. Question. Stanford grad with a 3.2 gpa and State U grad with a 3.5. Both have similiar test scores , who gets the green light for grad school? State U. "Professors are Professors"

Did he tell you why?

Yes he did. " Prof are Profs"
Over 4 years at any accredited college you will get some great Profs and some not so great. It all averages out.

A Professor is a Professor. The only other factor in the selection process is work experience. The individual with a lower gpa and a year or 2 of practical experience in the field will trump the higher gpa.

I know, I know, it doesn't make much sense. However my niece 09 graduate, who majored in physics, attended a small private liberal arts school which closed it's physics program in her last year. She was accepted into a grad program at Berkeley.

It's probably a California thing.

My son was offered a roster spot with no scholarship money to a school and BB program he really wants. He's a 2010 graduate. Does he sign any type of commitment letter? Any suggestions on how best to proceed would be greatly appreciated.

On questionnaires. Is it alright to leave stuff blank. Also, what should i do if i don't know what summer or fall team i am going to play on yet.

Thunder

Simply note that the team has not been determined at this point in time

quote:

Originally posted by Thunder11:
On questionnaires. Is it alright to leave stuff blank. Also, what should i do if i don't know what summer or fall team i am going to play on yet.

As for the team, you can indicate last year's summer team and indicate 2010 tbd and can be a talking point for you to conatct the school to let them know where you are playing when determined.

As for leaving information blank, I would not, especially GPA and SAT unless he has not taken it at which point put when he is scheduled. Leaving GPA blank is a red flag.