At what point ( or round ) does being drafted in the late rounds cease to be a better alternative than going to college?
Original Post
Replies sorted oldest to newest
RR Dad --
You'll get a lot of different opinions on this board with that question! My personal opinion is that, assuming the player has good college options, make sure the drafting team really regards the player as a true "prospect." If not, they will not give him the time and opportunities to develop. He's then better off developing in the college setting. Our experience is that this is usually at about the 5th round, but others could provide more feedback on this. What do the rest of you think?
You'll get a lot of different opinions on this board with that question! My personal opinion is that, assuming the player has good college options, make sure the drafting team really regards the player as a true "prospect." If not, they will not give him the time and opportunities to develop. He's then better off developing in the college setting. Our experience is that this is usually at about the 5th round, but others could provide more feedback on this. What do the rest of you think?
To me the bonus has to be life altering. Once you take money you are no longer eligible to play college ball which to most players is a huge event in your life. Play college ball and come out of college witha degree and be a more mature player and worth more to a pro team.
However you run the risk of injury and not getting a shot.
However you run the risk of injury and not getting a shot.
To me, this is such an individual decision that no one but the people involved can answer that question.
If anyone remembers far enough back besides Ole Shep, Kevin Brown was a prime example of what a good education can do for leverage at the negotiation table. Wow! He may have been the catalyst for all these over-inflated contracts, in a sense.
If my memory serves, believe he held out after junior year at Georgia Tech. He was drafted in first round by Texas??? Correct me if I'm wrong, anybody.
JD Drew is another one that comes to mind.
Shep
If my memory serves, believe he held out after junior year at Georgia Tech. He was drafted in first round by Texas??? Correct me if I'm wrong, anybody.
JD Drew is another one that comes to mind.
Shep
Thanks everyone for your response. One big factor that I should have stated is that school is a very low priorty is this students life. Does not have much interest in high school, can't see that changing at the next level but anything is possible.
Unless you are going in the top 5-10 rounds; or, unless you have "cut a deal" with an organization who feels that your talents warrant bigger money but you fell into the lower rounds, you are likely to get a nominal bonus and $1100.00 per month for 3 months in a short-season league; and, then you have to find a real job during the off season.
If you have no academic option, i.e., don't have the grades, then you should sign and "give it a shot"!
Too, if you want your body to physically mature, you might try the junior college route and see what happens.
Generally, though (although there are exceptions) very little money in the later rounds.
Usually no bonus save $10 in McDonald's coupons and the "chance of a lifetime".
If you have no academic option, i.e., don't have the grades, then you should sign and "give it a shot"!
Too, if you want your body to physically mature, you might try the junior college route and see what happens.
Generally, though (although there are exceptions) very little money in the later rounds.
Usually no bonus save $10 in McDonald's coupons and the "chance of a lifetime".
Ryan Raider Dad,
Welcome to the HSBBW. I see this is your first post and your first question is the toughest you will ever ask. You literally have to ask yourself that question and answer it yourself .... SERIOUSLY!
Having been through this a couple of times here is my advice. The family needs to sit down prior to any of this happening and determine how much money it would take for YOUR son to forgo college and play professionally. Listen to your son! I know players that have passed on college for a coke and a hot dog just to get the opportunity to play pro ball. I know others that have passed on over a million dollars to go to college.
If the family sits down and comes up with a dollar amount can you stick with that dollar amount? What they said I would put a “full ride” college scholarship aside for your son so his college would be paid in full after he gets out of professional baseball …. Would you change your dollar amount? What if I said you son may ONLY get one chance to play professional baseball and that chance is NOW would you make an exceptions? Is this REALLY about money or is this about your son’s dream that he’s had since he was in “T” ball? These are questions that will be put to you.
After you do all that soul searching, then you have to decide how you want to “negotiate”. Scouts want you to tell them your dollar amount so they can move on. I personally didn’t do it this way out of high school. I kept that dollar amount to myself. This is not the easy way and I would not recommend it unless a player is in the top rounds. This is tough on scouts, parents, and players. The easiest way is to announce to the scouts what it will TAKE to sign your son. If you put a unrealistic $$ amount on your son they will move on. Quickly!
Fungo
Welcome to the HSBBW. I see this is your first post and your first question is the toughest you will ever ask. You literally have to ask yourself that question and answer it yourself .... SERIOUSLY!
Having been through this a couple of times here is my advice. The family needs to sit down prior to any of this happening and determine how much money it would take for YOUR son to forgo college and play professionally. Listen to your son! I know players that have passed on college for a coke and a hot dog just to get the opportunity to play pro ball. I know others that have passed on over a million dollars to go to college.
If the family sits down and comes up with a dollar amount can you stick with that dollar amount? What they said I would put a “full ride” college scholarship aside for your son so his college would be paid in full after he gets out of professional baseball …. Would you change your dollar amount? What if I said you son may ONLY get one chance to play professional baseball and that chance is NOW would you make an exceptions? Is this REALLY about money or is this about your son’s dream that he’s had since he was in “T” ball? These are questions that will be put to you.
After you do all that soul searching, then you have to decide how you want to “negotiate”. Scouts want you to tell them your dollar amount so they can move on. I personally didn’t do it this way out of high school. I kept that dollar amount to myself. This is not the easy way and I would not recommend it unless a player is in the top rounds. This is tough on scouts, parents, and players. The easiest way is to announce to the scouts what it will TAKE to sign your son. If you put a unrealistic $$ amount on your son they will move on. Quickly!
Fungo
Ryan Raider Dad,
This is one of the most heavily debated topics we have on these forums. Below is a recent thread that has both sides of the issue and discusses the pros and cons of turning down first round money. I have changed my tune on this isssue. The correct answer IMHO is that it is a personal decision by the family. There is no one size fits all answer to this. Maybe some of the pros and cons raised in this thread can help people make a more informed decision.
So your kid just turned down first round money
This is one of the most heavily debated topics we have on these forums. Below is a recent thread that has both sides of the issue and discusses the pros and cons of turning down first round money. I have changed my tune on this isssue. The correct answer IMHO is that it is a personal decision by the family. There is no one size fits all answer to this. Maybe some of the pros and cons raised in this thread can help people make a more informed decision.
So your kid just turned down first round money
RR Dad -
Great topic.
If your goal is to play baseball, you have to ask, where will I have the best chance to develop? The bottom line is - you have to play.
So the next logical question is, what round does it take to be considered a "prospect" in the draft? Will I play (in the minors) if drafted in the 6th or 9th or 25th round? If a team makes an investment, you should get more of a chance to develop. (I don't know the answer to this round question)
Will I play in college? (I think this one is harder to answer)
And remember college coaches are paid to win.
Just my humble opinion.
Great topic.
If your goal is to play baseball, you have to ask, where will I have the best chance to develop? The bottom line is - you have to play.
So the next logical question is, what round does it take to be considered a "prospect" in the draft? Will I play (in the minors) if drafted in the 6th or 9th or 25th round? If a team makes an investment, you should get more of a chance to develop. (I don't know the answer to this round question)
Will I play in college? (I think this one is harder to answer)
And remember college coaches are paid to win.
Just my humble opinion.
Ryan Raider Dad
I recently posted on another forum about my sons experience with just this. Rather than post again I will PM it to you.
quote:At what point ( or round ) does being drafted in the late rounds cease to be a better alternative than going to college?
quote:One big factor that I should have stated is that school is a very low priorty is this students life. Does not have much interest in high school, can't see that changing at the next level but anything is possible.
I recently posted on another forum about my sons experience with just this. Rather than post again I will PM it to you.
RR Dad, I would agree that every situation is different and very personal. It needs to be based on lots of factors including an understanding that there are variations in this answer which depends on the MLB organization that might draft you.
I can give you an illustration of a top 10 pick out of high school from a draft 3-4 years ago who never made it out of short season and was just released. May catch on, may be out of baseball at age 21.Other results are much more promising.
You and your family are making a very important decision. Get as much information as you can on professional baseball. A third round pick last summer signed for $450,000. Showed up and found out minor league baseball was not to his liking. Others absolutely love it and end up with organizations who are patient and deal with high school graduates extremely well. Might I suggest you are too early to make any decisions but are doing exactly the right thing by asking this and other questions. You need to do a lot more research and may still not have an answer until you know which organizations are really interested in drafting your son, if any. At that point, you will begin to have some solid information to compare and analyze. Good luck and hope you have lots more questions to ask.
I can give you an illustration of a top 10 pick out of high school from a draft 3-4 years ago who never made it out of short season and was just released. May catch on, may be out of baseball at age 21.Other results are much more promising.
You and your family are making a very important decision. Get as much information as you can on professional baseball. A third round pick last summer signed for $450,000. Showed up and found out minor league baseball was not to his liking. Others absolutely love it and end up with organizations who are patient and deal with high school graduates extremely well. Might I suggest you are too early to make any decisions but are doing exactly the right thing by asking this and other questions. You need to do a lot more research and may still not have an answer until you know which organizations are really interested in drafting your son, if any. At that point, you will begin to have some solid information to compare and analyze. Good luck and hope you have lots more questions to ask.
quote:Posted by infielddad: A third round pick last summer signed for $450,000. Showed up and found out minor league baseball was not to his liking.
Was that the kid, whose name escapes me, who signed and quit after a week or two without taking the field, petitioning the NCAA for his eligibility back? Wonder if he's gunna play this year?
At the other end of the draft, son's summer teammate was drafted very late, got his contract in the mail, signed it and showed up for summer rookie camp only to be sent home, blowing his D1 eligibility because he turned pro and got cut the same day.
Make sure you know what you are doing either way and listen to a grown-up who knows.
quote:...blowing his D1 eligibility because he turned pro and got cut the same day.
Dad04, what a sad story!
With every horror story I read, I add another gray hair (or two).
I guess the bottom line is that you make the best decision for yourself and make the most of the route you've chosen.
There doesn't seem to be a "right or wrong" answer and sometimes your chosen "right" answer turns out all wrong.
I guess the bottom line is that you make the best decision for yourself and make the most of the route you've chosen.
There doesn't seem to be a "right or wrong" answer and sometimes your chosen "right" answer turns out all wrong.
Dad04 that is great info.
I know a guy who signed for $125,000 and for him it was a good decision because he was not a student. He has been in A ball for 3 years and probably will never make the grade. For him he has a future in baseball as an instructor or playing in an alternative pro league. This guy probably wpuld never succeed at college.. He had a scholarship from Oklahoma State and I even question how he would ever survive that.
Another poor student LHP was drafted and the MLB team sent him to Chipola and he bombed out in his 1st few months.
If you are a good student the problem is quite simple. Unless the bonus after tax is enough to secure your future when invested properly , school is probably the best route. It is my opinion that you will be worth more at the end of school provided you stay healthy. I have seen lots of guys turn down pro offers twice. One of them is a teammate of Cleveland's son at Coatal Carolina. He will get other chances at higher money.
I alsp feel the chance of making it is slim unless you are a high draft pick. The money has to be worth it to give up your eligibility. If you get cut and go back to college it will be awful tough walking by the ball diamond and not being able to play for your school.
I know a guy who signed for $125,000 and for him it was a good decision because he was not a student. He has been in A ball for 3 years and probably will never make the grade. For him he has a future in baseball as an instructor or playing in an alternative pro league. This guy probably wpuld never succeed at college.. He had a scholarship from Oklahoma State and I even question how he would ever survive that.
Another poor student LHP was drafted and the MLB team sent him to Chipola and he bombed out in his 1st few months.
If you are a good student the problem is quite simple. Unless the bonus after tax is enough to secure your future when invested properly , school is probably the best route. It is my opinion that you will be worth more at the end of school provided you stay healthy. I have seen lots of guys turn down pro offers twice. One of them is a teammate of Cleveland's son at Coatal Carolina. He will get other chances at higher money.
I alsp feel the chance of making it is slim unless you are a high draft pick. The money has to be worth it to give up your eligibility. If you get cut and go back to college it will be awful tough walking by the ball diamond and not being able to play for your school.
Dad 04, we are talking about the same situation.
KC, I don't want to create an overreaction. Things can go plenty sour on the college side also for a lot of different reasons. The difference up to now is that a player could transfer colleges and try to overcome the issues. Signing a professional contract removed college baseball as an additional option.
I am currently trying to confirm a professional signing that ended up, apparently, with a different result. BA had it's DIII projections over the weekend. Their projected 2006 player of the year was drafted last year and signed. BA confirmed the signing and the signing bonus. My son knows the player and many of his teammates and also confirmed the signing.
That would usually make him ineligible to return and play in college; but BA has him the best in all of DIII... for 2006. His college hasn't posted the 2006 roster yet
but it would be quite a precedent for the future if the BA implication that somehow he got his college eligibility restored is correct. Wouldn't think BA would make a mistake of that type, would you? 
If this turns out to be true, hopefully the facts can be better understood so that others may have a way to protect their college eligibility while exploring professional options.
KC, I don't want to create an overreaction. Things can go plenty sour on the college side also for a lot of different reasons. The difference up to now is that a player could transfer colleges and try to overcome the issues. Signing a professional contract removed college baseball as an additional option.
I am currently trying to confirm a professional signing that ended up, apparently, with a different result. BA had it's DIII projections over the weekend. Their projected 2006 player of the year was drafted last year and signed. BA confirmed the signing and the signing bonus. My son knows the player and many of his teammates and also confirmed the signing.
That would usually make him ineligible to return and play in college; but BA has him the best in all of DIII... for 2006. His college hasn't posted the 2006 roster yet
but it would be quite a precedent for the future if the BA implication that somehow he got his college eligibility restored is correct. Wouldn't think BA would make a mistake of that type, would you? If this turns out to be true, hopefully the facts can be better understood so that others may have a way to protect their college eligibility while exploring professional options.
BobbleHead
You bring up some good examples. I remember the LHP at Chipola. Also so very interesting story about DIII player and BA. WOW!!!! Dad04, infielddad and other...have witnessed this sad story o' so many times.
About Gary Gilmore and Coastal Carolina>
The Head Coach at Coastal Carolina, Gary Gilmore, Pitched in Phillie organization and believe me when I say this, "is well-connected with professional baseball". Has numerous contacts that no man can number-LOL
When Coach Gilmore was Assistant at USC-Aiken> Never forget Gary G. throwing my wood bat out of the bat-rack in between innings while playing Limestone College after I lined out to deep right in conference game with M110-LOL Was just trying to show what I could do with wood- Can't fault me for that...Probably would have been HR with aluminum though and reflecting back, Gary was right.
RS
Shep Cares
You bring up some good examples. I remember the LHP at Chipola. Also so very interesting story about DIII player and BA. WOW!!!! Dad04, infielddad and other...have witnessed this sad story o' so many times.
About Gary Gilmore and Coastal Carolina>
The Head Coach at Coastal Carolina, Gary Gilmore, Pitched in Phillie organization and believe me when I say this, "is well-connected with professional baseball". Has numerous contacts that no man can number-LOL
When Coach Gilmore was Assistant at USC-Aiken> Never forget Gary G. throwing my wood bat out of the bat-rack in between innings while playing Limestone College after I lined out to deep right in conference game with M110-LOL Was just trying to show what I could do with wood- Can't fault me for that...Probably would have been HR with aluminum though and reflecting back, Gary was right.
RS
Shep Cares
fyi,
former pro can play DIII if he has (college) eligibility left - 4 seasons of his sport
ie: a pro season counts as a college season, so if he played 2 yrs pro he could play 2 yrs DIII
.
former pro can play DIII if he has (college) eligibility left - 4 seasons of his sport
ie: a pro season counts as a college season, so if he played 2 yrs pro he could play 2 yrs DIII
.
Bee--
My understanding is that returning to college ball could only happen in NAIA, not in any of the NCAA divisions. I could be wrong, though. Anyone know for sure?
My understanding is that returning to college ball could only happen in NAIA, not in any of the NCAA divisions. I could be wrong, though. Anyone know for sure?
lhpx2,
The only one I know about for sure is DII. Every year you play pro baseball counts AGAINST your elgibility.
1 yr in pro ball ---- Can play 3 Years DII
2 yr in pro ball ---- Can play 2 Years DII
Hope this helps.
O42
The only one I know about for sure is DII. Every year you play pro baseball counts AGAINST your elgibility.
1 yr in pro ball ---- Can play 3 Years DII
2 yr in pro ball ---- Can play 2 Years DII
Hope this helps.
O42
lph, I'll stand 1/2 corrected,
good job orioles, I had to go back & take a peek as my memory is sometimes - - - - - -
uh, forgot what I was gonna say
ncaa amaturism overview
.
good job orioles, I had to go back & take a peek as my memory is sometimes - - - - - -
uh, forgot what I was gonna say
ncaa amaturism overview
.
RRDad,
I JUST have to comment in this thread since my son's last HS "W" came against Denton Ryan in 2001. Ryan put a freshman on the mound for that game and the pressure of the situation contributed to my son's team winning.
My son was drafted in the 20th round and signed for less $ than his Dad wanted him to.... but ultimately, his decision was the one that mattered and he has made a fairly good progression in his first 4 years of professional ball.
Oh... that freshman that Denton Ryan had on the mound back in 2001 was drafted VERY high his SR year(1st round I believe) and got way more $ than my son did when he signed. I hope he reaches his goals and meets his timetable in professional baseball.
Each player's goals for education and professional baseball are unique to that player and there is no ONE right answer to what anyone should do. Best of luck!
OPP
p.s. My son's HS team won that series 2 games to 1. Zach picked up his only SAVE of his HS career in the 3rd game and also hit a grand slam.
I JUST have to comment in this thread since my son's last HS "W" came against Denton Ryan in 2001. Ryan put a freshman on the mound for that game and the pressure of the situation contributed to my son's team winning.
My son was drafted in the 20th round and signed for less $ than his Dad wanted him to.... but ultimately, his decision was the one that mattered and he has made a fairly good progression in his first 4 years of professional ball.
Oh... that freshman that Denton Ryan had on the mound back in 2001 was drafted VERY high his SR year(1st round I believe) and got way more $ than my son did when he signed. I hope he reaches his goals and meets his timetable in professional baseball.
Each player's goals for education and professional baseball are unique to that player and there is no ONE right answer to what anyone should do. Best of luck!
OPP
p.s. My son's HS team won that series 2 games to 1. Zach picked up his only SAVE of his HS career in the 3rd game and also hit a grand slam.
Of course most of our members know who OnePlayer'sPop's son is, but I just had to comment for the benefit of newer members, since RR Dad who started this thread is new.
OPP's son Zach Duke indeed "has made a fairly good progression in his first 4 years of professional ball" after being drafted in the 20th round out of high school! (If you don't know who Zach is, you don't watch much ESPN.)
OPP's son Zach Duke indeed "has made a fairly good progression in his first 4 years of professional ball" after being drafted in the 20th round out of high school! (If you don't know who Zach is, you don't watch much ESPN.)
MN...OPP's son has had A SPECTACULAR rise in professional baseball.
Not many 20th rounders are left in baseball for 4 or 5 seasons, yet Zach was in the big leagues and posted terrific numbers last summer!
Congrats to Zach and OPP this spring and into the summer.
Not many 20th rounders are left in baseball for 4 or 5 seasons, yet Zach was in the big leagues and posted terrific numbers last summer!
Congrats to Zach and OPP this spring and into the summer.
OPP can correct me if I'm wrong, but if I remember right one of the reasons Zach went in the 20th round was his committment to school. Otherwise he would have gone much higher and did in fact receive a bonus of a much higher draft pick.
Definitely still kudo's to Zach and his rise to stardom! I know I'm rooting for him (and waiting for an updated autographed card, hint, hint
) !!
Definitely still kudo's to Zach and his rise to stardom! I know I'm rooting for him (and waiting for an updated autographed card, hint, hint
) !!
Denton Ryan had more kids drafted last year than any other Texas school, if memory serves correctly. Maybe I need to move back to Denton.
KellerDad,
You know your 60 yard time is too slow to get drafted!
OPP
You know your 60 yard time is too slow to get drafted!
OPP