grades and SAT/ACT

an SAT in the 1100 to 1200 range seems to be the magic number for most schools---1200 and up can mean more academic money

I can give you a range of scores, however, getting in is only the first step. More important is being able to succeed and even compete in the classroom.

I would look at collegeboard.org. You can look at the middle 50% range (the 25-75th %entile) for SAT/ACT for last year.

Don't focus on what the minimum is, focus on where you are relative to the student population. It is tough enough being a student, but playing baseball with the time and travel commitment it is even tougher.

Find a school where you can succeed first in the classroom, because if you don't succeed there you won't have the opportunity on the field.

There is no easy answer to your question, because everyone's opinion of academics (that is to say what is considered "high" versus "average") is different - there is a range.

Probably the best way to find out your answer, given your particular "range" might be to log on to Peterson's or Princeton Review. Type in the schools you consider to be "high" or "average" (as you indicate you would exclude the Ivies and a few others such as MIT or maybe Stanford or the top public universities), and run a comparison of their average published GPAs and SAT/ACT scores.

Lastly, if it were me running the comparison, given the higher volume of applications colleges are receiving in the past few years (should start dropping off a little after this year, but it will be only a slow decrease every year, so my idea should still be considered), I would add 10-20% to their published rates. By doing so, you would probably get a pretty good "read" on where your student should be academically in order to achieve entrance to any particular college or university.

As a secondary note, you should probably also take a look at what portions of the standardized exams are of particular import to any given school. Do they require subject tests? If so, how many (most want 2), do they consider the writing section of the SAT (many do not), etc.

Hope this helps.

Oh, one other comment. My discussion is for non-athlete admission. If your athlete fits the parameters I describe, any coach looking at him for baseball would probably have a highly confident approach to his admission for athletics. Always a good place to be in when talking to a college coach.

Keep in mind that while academic success has always been important if you're going to play intercollegiate athletics, it is now more important than ever before. With the APR rules being what they are, many college baseball programs, at least out here in the west, are taking a much harder look at student-athlete's GPA and SAT scores than ever before. Just having good enough grades to be able to be admitted isn't good enough for most, you have to be able to be academically successful and not hurt their APR if you want to be attractive to them.

you can glean a lot of information by reading the "common data set" for the colleges that are of interest. google "common data set" once you are at at the college's website and also "freshman profile."

your son could possibly take the ACT also since the equivalent score (to SAT) may be higher.

also important ..........are class rank and gpa.

peterson's has a good search engine where you can run lists and see level of admissions selectivity.....most difficult, etc.

pick up a copy of Fiske Guide to Colleges at Barnes and Noble......and maybe Peterson's Competitive Colleges. Both have good information on a number of schools.

Who cares about the academic money, you cant combine it with the baseball money anyway at many schools. As long as your grades are close to getting you in, youre good. Thats for fully funded schools, because your academic $ counts. At least thats the just of the thread that I started a few days ago. It seems that your best bet is to be poor(and get need based $), or to be a stud, and get 100% baseball $. The ones in the middle get screwed, as usual.

High Cheese - That's not what I got out of the thread. I thought if your son meets one of the following: Top 10 % of class; GPA of 3.5; or, SAT of 1200 - that academic $ didn't count.

High Cheese,

"Who cares about academic money?" I guess I do because my son is getting the Presidents scholarship at a private college that when combined with his baseball scholarship is paying most of his college costs!

As stated if your son meets 1 of the criteria his academic money doesn't count against the 11.7 baseball scholarships. This enables coaches to stretch their money farther. That is why so many knowledgable posters on this site stress academics for athletes.

I re-read your original thread. You asked about need based aid. That's treated totally differently than academic aid.

High Cheese I guess you can't be faulted toooo much since you just recently joined the site. I think most people will tell you that in most cases the academic money offered was greater than the BB money. Full rides with BB money are a myth.

Bobblehead, you reminded me of my mantra for so many years leading up to college:

" You get more money for academics than for baseball". This was something I learned here many years ago and it was worth reminding my son periodically during high school to keep his grades up.

If you read/research this site you'll find many experienced posters that have been down this path. Their experience is invaluable to us all.

High Cheese, with all due respect, I'll tell you exactly WHO CARES about academic money. Mom and Dad care, A LOT. In this day and age of 25% athletic aid for most baseball players, academic money is more important than ever for most families. As someone who's seen about 40 of his current and former players go on to college baseball opportunities, I can guarantee you that financial aid other than athletic money is critical to many of these student-athletes. There are students on my 2008/2009 teams who have received very generous athletic aid offers at private universities, but where the parents still can't bridge the gap required....and the student doesn't have good enough grades for academic aid. That hurts a lot for all concerned. We've also had some players who were excellent students, and they obtained substantial academic aid on top of their athletic aid, and that got them into some of the top academic universities in the country, with Mom and Dad paying little to nothing for their son's education. Academic aid matters a lot.

GOOD GRADES MATTER, MORE THAN EVER BEFORE.

quote:

Originally posted by 06catcherdad:
High Cheese, with all due respect, I'll tell you exactly WHO CARES about academic money. Mom and Dad care, A LOT. In this day and age of 25% athletic aid for most baseball players, academic money is more important than ever for most families. As someone who's seen about 40 of his current and former players go on to college baseball opportunities, I can guarantee you that financial aid other than athletic money is critical to many of these student-athletes. There are students on my 2008/2009 teams who have received very generous athletic aid offers at private universities, but where the parents still can't bridge the gap required....and the student doesn't have good enough grades for academic aid. That hurts a lot for all concerned. We've also had some players who were excellent students, and they obtained substantial academic aid on top of their athletic aid, and that got them into some of the top academic universities in the country, with Mom and Dad paying little to nothing for their son's education. Academic aid matters a lot.

GOOD GRADES MATTER, MORE THAN EVER BEFORE.

The point that I was making is that at many bigger, fully funded programs, including ALL ACC/SEC schools, there can be no combining of baseball money with any need based. That was told to me by an ACC recruiting coach. After reading more closely, I misunderstood some of what I thought that I knew. However, at many schools, to the best of my knowledge, which I admit is limited (but growing) stacking money is still not allowed at some schools because it counts towards the 11.7/27 rules. For example, if you have a good sutdent, lets say they get 50% academic money. Now the baseball team wants to give him 25% Now he is a counter as 75% against the 11.7 Much of my first hand experience comes from just a couple of schools, so I can only go by what Ive been told by them, however, I do realize that there are as many different situations out there as there are schools. Apologies to all.

To follow up, I guess that my view was a bit skewed because one of the schools that my son is very interested in does not offer any academic money--all aid is need based or athletic based.

The only time academic money is counted is when it isn't warranted by the atheletes GPA and SATs /Act scores. The reason they do that is to stop colleges for bumping up their scholarships by using academic money where it isn't warranted. In essence academic money has nothing to do with BB.

Gotcha--thanks for the clarification. Like I said, still learning. So it seems that at many, but not all schools, academic money is not counted, but need-based money is. Like I said, I was told that need based money is counted at the ACC/SEC schools.

quote:

Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
The only time academic money is counted is when it isn't warranted by the atheletes GPA and SATs /Act scores. The reason they do that is to stop colleges for bumping up their scholarships by using academic money where it isn't warranted. In essence academic money has nothing to do with BB.

BHD,
Here in FL with our bright futures progam (paid tuition at state schools earned through test scores and GPA), it can be blended with baseball. I was under the impression that in states where they have hope scholarship type money, that is allowed.
So if you earn 100% state paid tuition, all the coach has to do is give you room and board and book money and that's a free ride, in a sense, but pretty sure that is not counted as a full in the 11.7.

Yes I know in our case the coaches estimated what we would get as academic money and it was part of the offer but it was not taken away from the 11.7. To me a full ride is BB money that pays the total cost of attending a college. The combined money may equal the full cost of attendance but it is not a full ride even though it is equal to one.
Instate tuition is about half of what an out of state player would pay as I understand it. My son is a very expensive kid to a college ball team. Up until last year his academic money was slightly larger than the BB money but they gave him an increase last year. The dollar exchange took most of it away.
Every offer we had the academic money was greater than the BB money. He got max academic money from every college that gave him an offer. That is w2hy academic money is so impotyant. No academic money = no college ball for us.

quote:

Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
Every offer we had the academic money was greater than the BB money. He got max academic money from every college that gave him an offer. That is w2hy academic money is so impotyant. No academic money = no college ball for us.

BHD: No need to answer if this is considered being nosey, but was curious how your son's grades, test scores rated. Was he in the Top 10 or 20% in the class or...?

Just trying to get a feel for what some here may be up against in the future.

Thanks in advance! MoFire

No problem. He had a GPA of 3.8 on a 4.0 scale from a tough academic HS Apparently they rate them. His SAT was in the top 5% in math but only in the top 50% in English. He isn't a reader and had a limited vocabulary. College has actually motivated him academically and he reads a fair amount. Mostly business stuff. He could have raised his Sat marks in English but he was too busy to take the time. I'm not sure of his class standing but it would be in the top 5% i'm sure. The Sats are kind of foreign to us since you don't need them to get into college here.
I do know that every coach we talked to except the BB factory types asked about marks right off the top.

quote:

Origianally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
To me a full ride is BB money that pays the total cost of attending a college. The combined money may equal the full cost of attendance but it is not a full ride even though it is equal to one.

In this day and age, virtually NO player gets 100% baseball money. A couple of my former players are receiving 100% money from a very top notch private university where total attendance cost is close to $50K per year. Neither of them has purely athletic money, though in both cases baseball money is part of the equation. A substantial portion of the aid is academic aid. Parents don't care what kind of aid the money is, as long as it is credited against their bill. What they do care about is where it says "student's responsibility", that is says "0.00"

BTW Bobblehead, as a Canuck, you'd be proud to know that one of those boys was on your Canadian National team last summer. After completing an outstanding season pitching in the WCC, he was playing in the Alaska League when the Canadian team plucked him away to play for Team Canada.

coming into this thread late. But besides the fact that you get money for good grades, These players need decent grades to play baseball in college period. Its a grind, day in and day out and if your a weak student it will be tough for you to play at the next level.

I agree with 06, parents don't care as long as it reduces their college costs.
And every program is different, at the school my son went to, he received all baseball money being from out of state, at another school it would have been mostly academic money. At another private school, it would have been needs based due to 50K a year and that discussion took place before an offer came in.
Just do well both in teh classroom and on teh field and everything will take care of itself, however, if you think that son will get enough bb money to offset your investment, highly unlikely. Those days are gone with the new rules.

just a question that comes to mind....so being that it is harder and harder by new rules to get significant baseball dollars would you say more kids are signing pro contracts out of high school or not

I don't think the amount of athletic money that most baseball players get has anything to do with the numbers signing out of high school. First of all, the MLB clubs decide who is going to get drafted, and the truth is that VERY FEW high school players are ready to move directly to pro baseball without going through college first. The MLB clubs know this, and they don't knowingly throw their money away by signing players they don't think have the ability and makeup to play pro ball. The overwhelming majority of student athletes graduating from high school need to go to college and prove they can succeed at that level, while also growing up as well as becoming more mature and responsible. For most who actually have the ability, only after they've proved it in college, are they ready to try pro ball.

06

Do not try to tell that to the kids coming out of HS who sign for 6 plus million

06 I agree with everything you have posted.

However, I do not think that the amount of scholarship will help a drafted player decide, but rising college costs and tough economic times that will.

JMO.

TR and TPM, I agree with both of you, but there are certainly exception for both of your examples. TPM, I know a kid who is a very high draft prospect for next June, and his university has already upped his athletic aid twice in an effort to help him decide to go to college rather than sign if drafted highly. He has a legitimate chance to go first round out of HS, so I don't think the college money will be a factor in his decision if he goes that early.

TR, you're comment is right, but you and I both know that the number of HS players who are READY for pro ball out of HS is an infinitesimally (sp?) small percentage of the total, even of the pool who'll be playing in college. Very few american kids out of HS are ready. Just don't tell that to every dominican who the clubs are signing before they're even in high school!

06,
I was talking about the player who may be a second day pick and family is now facing job loss. Those players may sign.
Getting off track, a story comes to mind about a player mnay years ago given an opportunity to go play at a top college program. Unexpectedly he was drafted and offered 500K. That was a lot of money back then, and the family needed money, living in a trailer the mother (no dad) worked hard to give the player opportunities to get seen even back then. However, this was the first memeber of an extended family who had worked hard in HS and gotten a chance to get a college degree. He chose to go to college. The coaches couldn't even talk him out of it!

The chances of a second day draft pick getting enough money to be meaningful are very unlikely. Many HS players drafted on the second day are drafted as much to honor the player as it is for any real and immediate interest on the part of the MLB club. If a kid wants to sign for little money, and some do, then a second day HS pick might go, but still the overhwhelming majority should be going to college, at least jr. college for a year or two.