As I was reading one of the responses to an OPP this morning, it reminded me of a great article I read recently. I am a long-time HS teacher/coach so blessed to work with teenagers most days of the year. Despite having the greatest job in the world, I sometimes find myself falling into a funk after dealing with some of the obvious challenges that come with my job. I would venture to say that most parents probably have experienced some of these same challenges but with a much smaller sample size .

I have favorited this link so that I can refer back to it when I find myself getting frustrated with students/players. Think it also a great read for those of us who are college baseball parents (note the age of full development in article). Hope some of you will find it useful as well.

https://www.empoweringparents....hey-know-everything/

"Baseball is more then a game. It's like life played out on a field." - Juliana Hatfield

Original Post

Yet, many teen to twenty-five year olds make reasonably responsible decisions. Maybe it’s because their parents encouraged them to be problem solvers rather than being snow plow parents. 

I don’t know how any parent can plow every issue out of their child’s way through graduation of high school and expect them to be responsible on their own in college.

RJM posted:

I don’t know how any parent can plow every issue out of their child’s way through graduation of high school and expect them to be responsible on their own in college.

They don't expect them to be responsible on their own in college. They assume the colleges will let them continue to plow every issue out of the way. Imagine the surprise when the college doesn't play along.

Iowamom23 posted:
RJM posted:

I don’t know how any parent can plow every issue out of their child’s way through graduation of high school and expect them to be responsible on their own in college.

They don't expect them to be responsible on their own in college. They assume the colleges will let them continue to plow every issue out of the way. Imagine the surprise when the college doesn't play along.

You are absolutely right Iowamom23, but times have changed a lot even so.  I teach part-time at a local state U, and I have been surprised how much the school does coddle the young adults enrolled there.  For instance, profs are supposed to fill out online notices about a third of the way through each semester indicating which students in their classes are earning a D or an F, so that the college can contact them and provide counseling about how to improve their grades.  I don't want to see anyone fail, but I don't know why college students need this kind of hand-holding.  Any student who asks me for help or advice gets whatever assistance I can reasonably offer.  But it's not my job to tap an 19- to 25-year old on the shoulder and say "since you failed the mid-term, you need to make some changes in how you approach this class."  And I could give many other examples...  

I always loved this line from Mark Twain (although I think 21 years old is very optimistic):  “When I was a boy of 14, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be 21, I was astonished at how much the old man had learned in seven years.”

Chico Escuela posted:

I teach part-time at a local state U, and I have been surprised how much the school does coddle the young adults enrolled there.  For instance, profs are supposed to fill out online notices about a third of the way through each semester indicating which students in their classes are earning a D or an F, so that the college can contact them and provide counseling about how to improve their grades. 

At many universities, the Athletic Department requests professors to submit grades 3 or 4 times per semester for athletes.  Not to mention providing tutors, study halls, tracking whether they go to class (even electronically), etc.  So, who is really being coddled?  Why can't the athlete-students keep track of their own grades?   That is a question that many non-athlete students ask.  

anotherparent posted:
Chico Escuela posted:

I teach part-time at a local state U, and I have been surprised how much the school does coddle the young adults enrolled there.  For instance, profs are supposed to fill out online notices about a third of the way through each semester indicating which students in their classes are earning a D or an F, so that the college can contact them and provide counseling about how to improve their grades. 

At many universities, the Athletic Department requests professors to submit grades 3 or 4 times per semester for athletes.  Not to mention providing tutors, study halls, tracking whether they go to class (even electronically), etc.  So, who is really being coddled?  Why can't the athlete-students keep track of their own grades?   That is a question that many non-athlete students ask.  

Yep, there is a separate, even more detailed reporting scheme for athletes at my school. 

Some of this is deeply practical. A kid who is flunking out is less likely to come back to school — or pay tuition next semester. My parents both worked at a four-year, liberal arts college in our town when I was growing up and retention was a big topic of conversation. So I get that.

On the flip side, my mother ran the switchboard at the college. Every year we heard about the work study student whose mom called to say he wasn't really good at 8 a.m. and could she switch his shift to later in the day? Or the freshman who called to say she'd been on campus for two weeks and the maid hadn't stopped by to make her bed ONCE and when would she?

I do have to admit that I've kind of loved all the athletic apparatus making sure my son is doing what he needs to be doing — I have largely ceded his academics as well as his athletics to the university, while my friends whose kids have less academic support, or aren't in athletics, are calling to check on the status of Tuesday's paper and to remind their kid that finals are coming up.

I have no clue about those things and I love it.

 

Iowamom23 posted:

Some of this is deeply practical. A kid who is flunking out is less likely to come back to school — or pay tuition next semester. My parents both worked at a four-year, liberal arts college in our town when I was growing up and retention was a big topic of conversation. So I get that.

On the flip side, my mother ran the switchboard at the college. Every year we heard about the work study student whose mom called to say he wasn't really good at 8 a.m. and could she switch his shift to later in the day? Or the freshman who called to say she'd been on campus for two weeks and the maid hadn't stopped by to make her bed ONCE and when would she?

I do have to admit that I've kind of loved all the athletic apparatus making sure my son is doing what he needs to be doing — I have largely ceded his academics as well as his athletics to the university, while my friends whose kids have less academic support, or aren't in athletics, are calling to check on the status of Tuesday's paper and to remind their kid that finals are coming up.

I have no clue about those things and I love it.

 

There definitely is a practical interest for schools to keep students from failing out. Also a “humanitarian” interest—a lot of today’s students never learned to study or to juggle multiple challenging tasks (because their high school experience didn’t require them to).  And for $50k or more per year in tuition, maybe it’s fair to expect colleges to provide some support services that they didn’t offer when tuition was much lower. 


As for the special treatment some athletes get: They do have to deal with time pressures most students don’t face. On the other hand, too much tutoring and monitoring could be seen as coddling them. Taking off my grumpy old man hat for a moment, I do think today’s college students are less self reliant in many ways than in decades past; but they also face some pressures and challenges my fellow Gen Xers and I did not. Most 21st Century college grads do manage to become fully functioning adults. 

anotherparent posted:
Chico Escuela posted:

I teach part-time at a local state U, and I have been surprised how much the school does coddle the young adults enrolled there.  For instance, profs are supposed to fill out online notices about a third of the way through each semester indicating which students in their classes are earning a D or an F, so that the college can contact them and provide counseling about how to improve their grades. 

At many universities, the Athletic Department requests professors to submit grades 3 or 4 times per semester for athletes.  Not to mention providing tutors, study halls, tracking whether they go to class (even electronically), etc.  So, who is really being coddled?  Why can't the athlete-students keep track of their own grades?   That is a question that many non-athlete students ask.  

My son (D1 ballplayer) currently has a class in which the instructor has not posted any grades so far this term. While my son feels he is doing fine in the class, he has turned in several grades assignments and has no idea on grade and no feedback at all. So, while I know some people look at the communication as “coddling,” I believe it’s kind of important to have an idea along the way of how you are meeting requirements. We get that in our professional lives (or at least we should) so why should college courses be any different?

collegebaseballrecruitingguide posted:
anotherparent posted:
Chico Escuela posted:
 

My son (D1 ballplayer) currently has a class in which the instructor has not posted any grades so far this term. While my son feels he is doing fine in the class, he has turned in several grades assignments and has no idea on grade and no feedback at all. So, while I know some people look at the communication as “coddling,” I believe it’s kind of important to have an idea along the way of how you are meeting requirements. We get that in our professional lives (or at least we should) so why should college courses be any different?

What you describe is a prof who is just not doing his/her job.  Sadly, that's not uncommon.  Students have every right to expect that they will get grades on their work in a timely manner.

What I meant was that students in my class (for example) will have turned in two graded assignments by the time I have to report failing marks.  Each of those assignments will have been returned to them with comments, and they also can see their grades for each assignment online at any time.  They know (or ought to) if they have a D or F.  To me, it seems kind of silly that someone from the administration has to email them to remind them of this fact, and to suggest that they need to pull up their grade.  (Btw, these are upperclassmen, not freshmen.)

coachld posted:

As I was reading one of the responses to an OPP this morning, it reminded me of a great article I read recently. I am a long-time HS teacher/coach so blessed to work with teenagers most days of the year. Despite having the greatest job in the world, I sometimes find myself falling into a funk after dealing with some of the obvious challenges that come with my job. I would venture to say that most parents probably have experienced some of these same challenges but with a much smaller sample size .

I have favorited this link so that I can refer back to it when I find myself getting frustrated with students/players. Think it also a great read for those of us who are college baseball parents (note the age of full development in article). Hope some of you will find it useful as well.

https://www.empoweringparents....hey-know-everything/

Terrific read. Also, I'm assuming your tag quote is from the musician Juliana Hatfield and my 23-year old pre-marriage crush on her just deepened.

collegebaseballrecruitingguide posted:
anotherparent posted:
Chico Escuela posted:

I teach part-time at a local state U, and I have been surprised how much the school does coddle the young adults enrolled there.  For instance, profs are supposed to fill out online notices about a third of the way through each semester indicating which students in their classes are earning a D or an F, so that the college can contact them and provide counseling about how to improve their grades. 

At many universities, the Athletic Department requests professors to submit grades 3 or 4 times per semester for athletes.  Not to mention providing tutors, study halls, tracking whether they go to class (even electronically), etc.  So, who is really being coddled?  Why can't the athlete-students keep track of their own grades?   That is a question that many non-athlete students ask.  

My son (D1 ballplayer) currently has a class in which the instructor has not posted any grades so far this term. While my son feels he is doing fine in the class, he has turned in several grades assignments and has no idea on grade and no feedback at all. So, while I know some people look at the communication as “coddling,” I believe it’s kind of important to have an idea along the way of how you are meeting requirements. We get that in our professional lives (or at least we should) so why should college courses be any different?

I teach masters students and can concur that a lack of timely feedback is completely unprofessional. I get grades and commentary back to students in one week max. This guy might be a professor, but he isn't much of an educator. 

My son was listening to me talk about his younger sister, her plight working and trying to make money while in school, bills and her plans to live on her own.(Lord knows, not with us Curmudgeons)  along with a bunch of conditions (no roommate, with her dog, nice gated complex, pool, clubhouse, exercise equipment....etc) and actually said "Dad, i went to Clemson and was ready to get out of the house. I had to live with guys who i didn't know and found out i don't like roommates either but it is what you have to put up with to be out and on your own initially.) I just quit talking and asked him to call him sister sometime and share some knowledge with her.

Some of you may have misunderstood my OP. I don't think for a minute that parents need to coddle their college-age children. However, in my opinion, it is a mistake to think that their brain operates in the same way as their middle-age parents. Taking that into consideration, I believe that providing good counsel or guiding them thru some of their more difficult challenges is the furthest thing from coddling.

Growing up in a military family, I was never coddled and believe that there was a significant benefit in figuring things out on my own. However, in looking back now, I would have appreciated having someone to lean on in certain situations simply because I was obviously thinking/acting like someone who was not operating at full capacity. 

Having four children of my own while also having a career in education, I can attest to the importance of providing opportunities to develop the skills needed to succeed as an adult. If you were to survey my children, students, and players, I think most would say that self-advocacy is part of my regular vocabulary. That does not mean that I don't make myself available should they find themselves in need. Many of those conversations end up with me advising them to self advocate but there are others where I have felt the need to get involved.  I just don't personally think it makes much sense to have a hard, fast rule in place that college students should never have help along the way.

Choosing to highlight extremes avoids the reality that most college students are still developing the capacity to make the same decisions that they would at an older age.  As always, just my 2 cents but 2 cents based on a lot of experience working with young people, having 2 college-age kids, and talking with many of my former students and players who are 25+.

 

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