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Just out of curiosity, how do you get a baseball team "safely" to an away game?  O.k., I know you'll all throw that one out.  But, it's the same as an orchestra or choir rehearsal.  If you don't have one, you can't have the others.

And fwiw, I think that testing, isolating, etc. were the way to go for all colleges, but I do question the huge sums being spent to allow D1 (non-revenue) teams to play "safely", when the rest of the students don't get their activities.   They are not spending thousands so that the orchestra can play, even if it's a top-ranked orchestra.  They could have scrapped conference play altogether, and had D1 teams play locally, but they did not do that.  Now their athletics budgets are way in the red.

Just out of curiosity, how do you get a baseball team "safely" to an away game?  O.k., I know you'll all throw that one out.  But, it's the same as an orchestra or choir rehearsal.  If you don't have one, you can't have the others.

And fwiw, I think that testing, isolating, etc. were the way to go for all colleges, but I do question the huge sums being spent to allow D1 (non-revenue) teams to play "safely", when the rest of the students don't get their activities.   They are not spending thousands so that the orchestra can play, even if it's a top-ranked orchestra.  They could have scrapped conference play altogether, and had D1 teams play locally, but they did not do that.  Now their athletics budgets are way in the red.

Ask Hopkins

WITH ALL DUE RESPECT TO FDR and the Greatest Generation, I offer this humble missive:

Mr. President, Ms. Vice President, Ms.  Speaker, Members of the Senate, and of the House of Representatives, and my good friends, the High School Baseball Websters:

On Tuesday, October 13, 2020, and Wednesday, February 17th, 2021, and Wednesday, March 3, 2021  --- dates which will live in infamy -- our Spring Sports, with their airs of sunny and warmer days, with their greening of trees and grass, with their joyful fans shouting "Hey batter, batter! Scha-wing, batter, batter!" and "Run, Forrest, Run!," --- were cancelled.

No longer are the  players happily harkening to the leather snap of ball against mitt and the ping of bat against ball, the starter pistol's sharp crack or the sweet thud of shot puts.  No, THOSE spring sports were suddenly and deliberately cancelled by the presidents and provosts, the emperors and queens, the Cartel of Evil Umpires of High Academic Schools.

Spring Sports could have been at peace with those schools and were still in conversation with their so-called leaders looking toward the maintenance of every spring's splendor, of peace on the ballfields and tracks of America, from the Central Pacific to the Mid-Atlantic.

For weeks and months before the Garnets, the Fords, the Quakers, the Bulldogs, the Crimson, the Big Red and the Big Green, the Lions and Tigers and Bears (Oh, my!) had their hopes and dreams for a perfect new spring mothballed, the despots of the High Academic Schools fretted and dithered and spoke of the uselessness of continuing to play during the COVID occupation, yet still they noticed no threat or hint of war against or of armed attack.

(Well, they did, but it doesn't fit this narrative).

Always remember the character of the onslaught against us.  No matter how long it may take us, with our righteous might we will win through to absolute victory. We will make it very certain that this form of treachery shall never again endanger us.

With confidence in our virtuosity, with the unbounding determination of our people, we will gain the inevitable triumph -- so help us God.

PLAY BALL!

Last edited by smokeminside

Let’s get back to basics. Baseball is still America’s Pastime and this is a baseball message board. Other activities are important but last time I checked choir, orchestra & debate have never been referred to as America’s Pastime. I, for one don’t subscribe to arguments that these activities are as important as baseball. To me they are not. If you want to make that argument this is not the right audience. May I suggest High School Orchestra Web for those opinions. Also life is not fair and never has been. To try and “make it fair” by not allowing activities that can safely be conducted because some others can’t is representative of the misguided delusions of our academic and political leaders.

Sucks that these schools are not playing sports this Spring, but let's remember that at these schools sports are an adjunct to the classroom. Kids use Baseball as a means to get into these prestigous schools. Sports is always secondary. If Baseball was the primary reason to have selected a school, you would never have picked these schools.

@tzer posted:

I commend your achievements.   However I differ from you in my belief that if an activity can be done safely, it should not be prohibited because ALL activities cannot  be done safely.   I don’t think “fairness” is an appropriate reason to prohibit all activity.

Here we go again:  At no point did I argue activities that can be done safely shouldn’t be. i said that it may be the case (depending on a given school’s rules) that spring sports can’t be conducted in compliance with the same rules that apply to other activities. For example (again): my daughters college prohibits students from traveling and returning to campus—but the athletics teams will be able to do so. I also said I’m not sure whether I agree or not, but can understand why a school would decide not to treat athletes differently from all other students.

My achievements, of course, are not the point. Although you keep making dismissive, bad faith arguments about the issue, the point is that athletes are not people whose accomplishments set them apart from all other humans. I admire great athletes. But they aren’t inherently better than musicians, mathematicians or or others who try to attain excellence. If my son had been a cellist, I’d probably be posting now on HSOrchestraWeb—and folks there would be just as passionate about music (and probably dismissive about sports).  

@tzer posted:

Ask Hopkins

In August when Hopkins announced that students wouldn’t be permitted to come to campus and all activities would be shut down for fall, there was a thread here in which many folks attacked that decision.  At the time I argued that just maybe we ought to give JHU the benefit of the doubt, given the medical expertise therein.  What a difference six months makes...

Empirical evidence proves it’s possible to play baseball fairly safely—MLB did it. We also know it was expensive and difficult. Which is why I think the schools canceling spring sports are acting less out of public health concerns than other reasons.  

Last edited by Chico Escuela

Here we go again:  At no point did I argue activities that can be done safely shouldn’t be. i said that it may be the case (depending on a given school’s rules) that spring sports can’t be conducted in compliance with the same rules that apply to other activities. For example (again): my daughters college prohibits students from traveling and returning to campus—but the athletics teams will be able to do so. I also said I’m not sure whether I agree or not, but can understand why a school would decide not to treat athletes differently from all other students.

My achievements, of course, are not the point. Although you keep making dismissive, bad faith arguments about the issue, the point is that athletes are not people whose accomplishments set them apart from all other humans. I admire great athletes. But they aren’t inherently better than musicians, mathematicians or or others who try to attain excellence. If my son had been a cellist, I’d probably be posting now on HSOrchestraWeb—and folks there would be just as passionate about music (and probably dismissive about sports

and a stimulating conversation that would be...you argue for days over scales...and the fact that they should have been allowed to play as well.

Funny thing, around many people I know, I am the one person arguing that sports are just as good as music, theater, debate, etc...  I'm an orchestra parent as well as a baseball parent (try wondering why your child didn't get into the highest performance group - but I never found a discussion board for that).  In fact, I think students should be able to major in their sport, just like musicians can.

If there weren't so many cases where academic requirements were bent for athletes (yes, including at HAs), this wouldn't be a question.  I don't know if they bend those academic requirements for musicians.

Last edited by anotherparent

Funny thing, around many people I know, I am the one person arguing that sports are just as good as music, theater, debate, etc...  I'm an orchestra parent as well as a baseball parent (try wondering why your child didn't get into the highest performance group - but I never found a discussion board for that).  In fact, I think students should be able to major in their sport, just like musicians can.

If there weren't so many cases where academic requirements were bent for athletes (yes, including at HAs), this wouldn't be a question.  I don't know if they bend those academic requirements for musicians.

They can assist with admissions for music.  I am 95% sure my good friends daughter got this chit for Clemson.   She was in the ranges and may have gotten in regardless but a call was made.  I just texted him for confirmation and will update once confirmed.  

Confirmed: "It’s the same recruiting as sports.. each department gets a certain amount of scholarship spots.. music dept at Clemson has 3 scholarship students per year".  She got a ton of money too.  For Chorus.  She sings at Dabo's Christmas party!

Last edited by Gunner Mack Jr.

Funny thing, around many people I know, I am the one person arguing that sports are just as good as music, theater, debate, etc...  I'm an orchestra parent as well as a baseball parent (try wondering why your child didn't get into the highest performance group - but I never found a discussion board for that).  In fact, I think students should be able to major in their sport, just like musicians can.

If there weren't so many cases where academic requirements were bent for athletes (yes, including at HAs), this wouldn't be a question.  I don't know if they bend those academic requirements for musicians.

Lol, I don't want to sidetrack the conversation too much, but as a person who was into the music world myself at a young age (considered a career in it until I took calculus and realized my abilities there were more marketable), many of the things they discuss here definitely translates.  I know of situations where kids were able to get a leg up on admissions due to their musical abilities, and had a few of them as friends in college.  Our Jazz band concerts had greater attendance than our football team, and the top band travelled a fair amount.  Also, a lot of the character skills I see in sports we had to deal with, including a lot of individual practice, working in smaller groups, and dealing with different personalities.... Just didn't think about it, as it seems like a lifetime ago (not so much focus on music in our community compared to where I grew up).

No, intercollegiate sports are not incomparable (and I say that as the father of an athlete). And I assure you most HA schools don’t view their sports teams as more important than the arts, the science students competing for prestigious international prizes, etc.  Various universities’ glossy alumni mags come to my household—sports do not get outsized mention in the ones from the Ivies and similar institutions  

I did debate in college and HS. (My baseball career ended when I was 15.  Loved the game, but wasn’t good enough.)  Debate involved national competition (including flying to tournaments in some cases), quite a few all-nighters researching and preparing, and was very important to those of us engaged in it (even though, like baseball, it was just a game). I won a state championship, was offered a debate scholarship (yeah, they exist), and ultimately the activity was important in getting me into college. I know many friends who also were passionate about their own extracurriculars, sacrificed for them, and used them to support their college applications.  Frankly, my time might have been better spent on charitable activities or music or science.  But, like trying to master throwing a ball 60’6”, sometimes a particular pursuit just captures a person’s attention even though it has little extrinsic value.

If you want to argue spring sports are uniquely safe, have at it.  (I’m not interested in joining that discussion, but others may be).  As I said earlier, I think permitting sports is inevitably going to mean allowing athletes privileges not granted to other students and other student activities.  I can see why schools might not want to do that.  (Didn’t say I agree—honestly I am not sure what I think.)  But if your position is that Haverford, Yale, et al. ought to regard sports as more important than the other things their students pursue outside class, then I think those university’s faculties and administrations would disagree  

Well, i'm sure as hell not going to argue with a debate champion!

I'm still trying to digest the statement that Bryn Mawr is not participating in baseball this spring.

Last edited by 57special

Yep. Settled for a full-tuition ride to a school in USNews’ top 10 and then an Ivy professional degree. I don’t think my life woils have been better if I had managed to eke out a spot on the HS Varsity baseball bench instead of pursuing something I was better suited for. My son, on the other hand, gravitated to baseball early and was much better at it than his old man.  So he pursued his own passions.  Nothing wrong with that.  But I don’t think my son being a pitcher is inherently superior to other kids who may be dancers or musicians or science prize winners.

I have not uttered an unkind word to you; you, however, certainly cant say the same.  

(For the record,  I fought forest fires to earn money during college summers. So despite my lack of baseball skills, I was not (though may today be) a completely pencil-necked geek.)

Poor bugger. Just imagine, if you coulda thrown a FB and an off speed pitch you coulda been somebody, instead of a bum...

@Smitty28 posted:

Covid isn't dangerous to young people.  There is no logical reason that any college activity should be shut down.  Old people, overweight people and otherwise unhealthy should self-quarantine and let the rest of the world carry on.

Two members of the local NHL team were found to have cases of Myocarditis as a result of their Covid infection, and were shut down for 6 weeks. One player was 19, and in phenomenal shape, even for a world class athlete.

@AD2018 posted:

Sucks that these schools are not playing sports this Spring, but let's remember that at these schools sports are an adjunct to the classroom. Kids use Baseball as a means to get into these prestigous schools. Sports is always secondary. If Baseball was the primary reason to have selected a school, you would never have picked these schools.

This statement implies that the only HA opportunity that an athlete obtains is due to the bending of the rules to “get in”. While that may be true for 2 or 3 players a year, the vast majority of these students are able obtain admission into many HA schools and the opportunity to play a sport is what sways that applicant’s decision to attend that specific school.   That is the case for my son, who attended a HS that was more selective, and higher ranked nationally for academics than Haverford College.   If it wasn’t for baseball, they wouldn’t have had a shot at getting my son to attend there.

The point is that for many of these “little ivy’s”, sports are far more important to their existence and ability to attract students (and future alums that give back) than most people realize.   Incredibly, the sitting president at HC doesn’t seem to understand that this decision may have far reaching effects in the future in many areas (recruiting of rounded students, alumni giving, etc.).

Not saying that bending the rules is how all the rosters are formed at a HA.  Agree, it's maybe 2-3 at most.  These rosters are built from kids who have the ability to play a sport, have the academic skills, and the financial wherewithal.  However, because the size of these schools are so small (typically less than 2,000 students), if you are not an athlete or are not a family legacy, it can be near impossible to get into these schools no matter what SAT and grade combination you have.  Hence, a sport like Baseball is the ticket to getting in.  Yes, you still need the same academic chops as everyone else in the student body...but you can get admitted.  My point...Baseball is used as a vehicle to get into these schools, which in many cases can be a life long 'golden ticket'.

I

@AD2018 posted:

Not saying that bending the rules is how all the rosters are formed at a HA.  Agree, it's maybe 2-3 at most.  These rosters are built from kids who have the ability to play a sport, have the academic skills, and the financial wherewithal.  However, because the size of these schools are so small (typically less than 2,000 students), if you are not an athlete or are not a family legacy, it can be near impossible to get into these schools no matter what SAT and grade combination you have.  Hence, a sport like Baseball is the ticket to getting in.  Yes, you still need the same academic chops as everyone else in the student body...but you can get admitted.  My point...Baseball is used as a vehicle to get into these schools, which in many cases can be a life long 'golden ticket'.

That may be true for some, but I tend to believe that the school stands to benefit more in the long run for having these type students.  

I doubt there will be any long-term impacts to the schools not playing sports in the spring. Because of these schools' long history of academic excellence, demand to attend will continue to be high, they will continue to attract high academic kids who play sports and will continue to get support from alumni.  The administrators hold all the cards.

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