Looks like a Headfirst on 8/2-8/3 and a Showball on 8/4-8/5 that are practically right next to each other. For anyone who has done these events, is there any reason a player wouldn’t be able to do both?
Original Post
Replies sorted oldest to newest
Position player? No, it’s nothing more strenuous than a normal 4-day tourney.
PO, different story for obvious reasons.
My question would be, why do both?
Wait, there was a really good description of this a few years ago, probably by smokeminside. I found this, which is not what I was remembering:
@Senna posted:Position player? No, it’s nothing more strenuous than a normal 4-day tourney.
PO, different story for obvious reasons.
My question would be, why do both?
There are a couple different schools that will be at one but not the other.
@anotherparent posted:Wait, there was a really good description of this a few years ago, probably by smokeminside. I found this, which is not what I was remembering:
I can't find it either! But my guys thought it was pretty stressful to have them back to back. Maybe it was mostly a mental thing but they were tired at the second event. Or maybe they were spending too much time back home at the beach before we left....
Is there a headfirst that's a bit earlier, or a snowball that's a bit later? A few days off even for position players can't hurt.
@smokeminside posted:I can't find it either! But my guys thought it was pretty stressful to have them back to back. Maybe it was mostly a mental thing but they were tired at the second event. Or maybe they were spending too much time back home at the beach before we left....
Is there a headfirst that's a bit earlier, or a snowball that's a bit later? A few days off even for position players can't hurt.
Good to know. Basically what I was worried about.
Write to all coaches of interest now, express interest, given them your schedule, ask where they can see you. Some will be at big tournaments, some will be at HF/SB, all will also say "come to our camp". I don't think I'd pay $1000 on the off-chance that 1 or 2 more coaches might become interested; I would want to know ahead of time that this is where they wanted to see me.
@anotherparent posted:Write to all coaches of interest now, express interest, given them your schedule, ask where they can see you. Some will be at big tournaments, some will be at HF/SB, all will also say "come to our camp". I don't think I'd pay $1000 on the off-chance that 1 or 2 more coaches might become interested; I would want to know ahead of time that this is where they wanted to see me.
Good advice. TBPTson has been doing this. So far it is mostly come to our camps. Then again, since my son is a 2023, I think that is basically all they can say at this point. A few of the coaches have talked to my son's travel and HS coach and said they'd like to see him at a camp or HF/SB. Also hit them hard on academics.
What are everyone's thoughts on doing a HF, take two days off, then doing a SB? They are in NY so I thought we could take the 2 days off and possibly visit Columbia and NYU, then tour NYC.
@TerribleBPthrower posted:What are everyone's thoughts on doing a HF, take two days off, then doing a SB? They are in NY so I thought we could take the 2 days off and possibly visit Columbia and NYU, then tour NYC.
NYU is near Washington Square Park. There’s been a lot of violence there lately. Be careful. While the odds are with you a tourist was shot in Times Square this week. He probably thought the odds were with him.
All due respect ( a NY phrase if there ever was one), NYC is fine. Sure, don't go to Washington Sq Park at night if you're skiddish about news reports trying to make it out like NYC is on fire. Other than the weather, it's not. Crime up, for sure, but no where near the levels I grew up in during 70's/80's. Go visit Columbia and NYU and have fun. If you're in the area and want to take a look at a few other HA schools close to NYC check out Fordham, Marist and Stevens across the river.
Thanks guys. Here's another question... I just took a closer look and it looks like the only differences in schools attending are Princeton and Penn will be at SB and won't be at HF. Both of those schools will be at SB down in FL in October. Is it worth it to do both for 2 additional schools? I'm not as worried as much about the cost but really more about the time and coordination in doing both.
@TerribleBPthrower posted:Thanks guys. Here's another question... I just took a closer look and it looks like the only differences in schools attending are Princeton and Penn will be at SB and won't be at HF. Both of those schools will be at SB down in FL in October. Is it worth it to do both for 2 additional schools? I'm not as worried as much about the cost but really more about the time and coordination in doing both.
Is the SB Oct date going to cover all your other coach attendance needs (not just Princeton and Penn)? If so, I'd only do that one and save $. Assuming you have a busy summer schedule, he'll be more rested for that event in Oct as well. You have a 2023, and you're relatively ok on time for the east coast HA programs.
@TerribleBPthrower posted:Thanks guys. Here's another question... I just took a closer look and it looks like the only differences in schools attending are Princeton and Penn will be at SB and won't be at HF. Both of those schools will be at SB down in FL in October. Is it worth it to do both for 2 additional schools? I'm not as worried as much about the cost but really more about the time and coordination in doing both.
If Penn and Princeton are seriously recruiting your son I would get out in front of it now and not wait until October. Again, if they are interested they will provide dates to see your son way before October.
Personally, I think Ivy recruitment in October is way too late these days. Ten years ago, my son was offered by two Ivys in August and he was one of the last recruits for each school. I would do your HF event (get some momentum and interest) then figure out the rest.
JMO.
@fenwaysouth posted:If Penn and Princeton are seriously recruiting your son I would get out in front of it now and not wait until October. Again, if they are interested they will provide dates to see your son way before October.
Personally, I think Ivy recruitment in October is way too late these days. Ten years ago, my son was offered by two Ivys in August and he was one of the last recruits for each school. I would do your HF event (get some momentum and interest) then figure out the rest.
JMO.
Particularly Penn. That HC signs his main recruits very early. Columbia probably second most aggressive. You’ll see on PG they have a big class of 2022’s already locked. Will probably have a few 2023’s soon. Princeton may be last as they’re the most stringent but agree Oct probably too late.
@fenwaysouth posted:If Penn and Princeton are seriously recruiting your son I would get out in front of it now and not wait until October. Again, if they are interested they will provide dates to see your son way before October.
Personally, I think Ivy recruitment in October is way too late these days. Ten years ago, my son was offered by two Ivys in August and he was one of the last recruits for each school. I would do your HF event (get some momentum and interest) then figure out the rest.
JMO.
Is it late for a 2022 or a 2023? My son is a 2023. I’ve been told by a bunch of people that HA recruiting doesn’t really pick up until fall of junior year but my son should start early because he has a pretty high PSAT and the travel coaches think he’s ready to show. You’ve obviously been through it so I value your opinion.
Pre-pandemic, Ivies went to big tournaments like WWBA, Cincy Flames, etc. (to name a few) to watch players. Have your son's travel coaches contact those schools to gauge their interest.
@Senna posted:Is the SB Oct date going to cover all your other coach attendance needs (not just Princeton and Penn)? If so, I'd only do that one and save $. Assuming you have a busy summer schedule, he'll be more rested for that event in Oct as well. You have a 2023, and you're relatively ok on time for the east coast HA programs.
Thanks Senna. The October SB does have a lot of the same coaches as the August event. The SB events do not have 2 other programs that he’s really interested in.
@anotherparent posted:Pre-pandemic, Ivies went to big tournaments like WWBA, Cincy Flames, etc. (to name a few) to watch players. Have your son's travel coaches contact those schools to gauge their interest.
Thanks. I was surprised to see a bunch of them at the Palm Beach Classic a few weeks ago.
Coaches have already talked to a few of the schools. A couple watched him at the PBC. His travel coaches told us to go to camps if we can and not worry about the team if they overlap. I was hoping to do HF/SB instead of camps to get seen by more coaches.
@TerribleBPthrower posted:Is it late for a 2022 or a 2023? My son is a 2023. I’ve been told by a bunch of people that HA recruiting doesn’t really pick up until fall of junior year but my son should start early because he has a pretty high PSAT and the travel coaches think he’s ready to show. You’ve obviously been through it so I value your opinion.
IMHO a 2022 will need to get "off the schneid" right now and get noticed through baseball and necessary SAT/ACT scores or whatever the particular school is using post-Covid academic measurement.
A 2023 has time. A high PSAT has to be converted into a meaningful SAT, and he'll need to demonstrate D1 level talent if he is targeting Ivys. A good rule of thumb for a possible Ivy recruit is that he is being pursued and offered by other D1s. If that is happening and he's got the necessary SATs/ACTs then he's got a shot. Ivys are recruiting much earlier these days than when my son was being recruited.
Your quote about "HA recruiting not picking up until fall of junior year" applies to HA D3s...not Ivys.
For what it's worth Showball had a recruiter that they've "partnered" with do a presentation to the parents and he said that Covid has somehow moved the Ivy's up a bit and they are pretty much done with 2022's at this point. Get your 2023 in front of them!
I am not sure if there is value to attend both showcases. I agree with what Wechson posted about Wash Sq Park, it is fine during the day early evening. Not sure why you would want to go there after midnight unless you are walking out of a bar/club and since you are with your kid it is a moot point. Regarding Ivies, the COA is a real knife twister in my savings and I am very happy for those with the means, but given the more lucrative career paths require graduate degrees, I would rather he wait for grad school or if his ed terminates with an undergrad degree divert some of the funds for helping the kid like a down payment on a co op. My kid is okay with giving up on Ivies. I have no direct experience the HF or Showball, but the school camps he attended did provide a lot of interaction with the HC and RC and so far a lot of post camp communications. It is about 4-5 school camps for the cost of the HF SB supercamp. Luckily most of the kid's desired schools are regional so I am thinking of going that route.
@LousyLefty posted:For what it's worth Showball had a recruiter that they've "partnered" with do a presentation to the parents and he said that Covid has somehow moved the Ivy's up a bit and they are pretty much done with 2022's at this point. Get your 2023 in front of them!
Only a couple of Ivies are done or almost done with '22. Rest are between 2/3 and 1/4 full. Not too early for '23s to get on the radar.
To echo the above, the bulk of the Ivies are right in the heart of recruiting season for '22's right now
@LousyLefty posted:For what it's worth Showball had a recruiter that they've "partnered" with do a presentation to the parents and he said that Covid has somehow moved the Ivy's up a bit and they are pretty much done with 2022's at this point. Get your 2023 in front of them!
I'm sure there is some movement with the timeline, but I'd have to question the source a little bit. Showball clearly has something to gain by getting more kids to their showcases earlier. The Ivies my son's travel coach talked to told him to get to their camps if he can (another money maker), but their 2023 recruiting won't start in full gear until the fall. They told him they wanted to see my son early because of his GPA, academic rigor of his prep school, and his PSAT. Either way, we are planning to have him go to at least one of the showcases.
For a 2023, this summer is about D1 (including Ivies). Why are you obsessed about being seen by all the Ivies? They are very different schools. If some of them, that your son likes, have asked your travel coach for you to go to their camps, then do that. If Ivy doesn't pan out this summer/fall, then next summer will be the time for HA D3 recruitment, when HF/SB will be worth the money.
@anotherparent posted:For a 2023, this summer is about D1 (including Ivies). Why are you obsessed about being seen by all the Ivies? They are very different schools. If some of them, that your son likes, have asked your travel coach for you to go to their camps, then do that. If Ivy doesn't pan out this summer/fall, then next summer will be the time for HA D3 recruitment, when HF/SB will be worth the money.
I'm not obsessed about being seen by all the Ivies. He has zero interest in half of them. His number one factor in his list of schools is how strong their physics departments(also interested in math and CS) are. It just happens that Harvard, Yale, Princeton, and Brown are very strong in these areas. So are CalTech, MIT, Johns Hopkins, U of Chicago, and Berkeley.
I was hoping for him to be seen by his top choices in one place to see who has interest and then spend the time/money on campus visits from there. When the travel coach talked to the college coaches it was late May and a couple schools have since said there will be no camps. There are a couple we are trying to squeeze into in August.
@TerribleBPthrower posted:I'm sure there is some movement with the timeline, but I'd have to question the source a little bit. Showball clearly has something to gain by getting more kids to their showcases earlier. The Ivies my son's travel coach talked to told him to get to their camps if he can (another money maker), but their 2023 recruiting won't start in full gear until the fall. They told him they wanted to see my son early because of his GPA, academic rigor of his prep school, and his PSAT. Either way, we are planning to have him go to at least one of the showcases.
For sure, but he was speaking in the context of "adjusting your expectations" and "adapting to the new reality of post Covid recruiting". And I know he's somewhat wrong because an Ivy was at Lefty's game in AZ two days later and watched the entire game Leftyson was in. You don't watch 7 innings of the same game in 100plus heat (no shade unless you pack it in) if you aren't serious about a kid on the field. They were all 2022s. (*not there to watch my kid)
When one says "Ivies are recruiting me" what does the mean post-Covid? When my 2015 was being recruited a couple of schools during fall semester of his Jr yr invited him to a camp (Junior Day) where they had drills and then a tour of the campus and facilities. Prior to the invite, however, the did request his SAT/ACT and transcripts for a pre-read. They typically had all their offers out by end of the fall.
So back to the original question with some updated info and research. Is it worth it to do HF for 2 days, take 2 days off and tour a couple schools and NYC (and possibly get mugged, stabbed or shot, jk, sorta), then do SB for 2 days? Most of the schools my son is interested will be at both showcases. There are two D3’s at HF that won’t be at SB and two Ivies at SB that won’t be at HF.
Based on the feedback, it seems it would be more important from a timing perspective to make sure he is seen by the Ivies.
The timelines for Ivys aren't set in stone. My son has a summer teammate (2022) that's been committed to Harvard for well over a year.
@TerribleBPthrower posted:So back to the original question with some updated info and research. Is it worth it to do HF for 2 days, take 2 days off and tour a couple schools and NYC (and possibly get mugged, stabbed or shot, jk, sorta), then do SB for 2 days? Most of the schools my son is interested will be at both showcases. There are two D3’s at HF that won’t be at SB and two Ivies at SB that won’t be at HF.
Based on the feedback, it seems it would be more important from a timing perspective to make sure he is seen by the Ivies.
Seems like an awful lot of time and $ just to get seen by the two additional Ivy or HA D3s? I have no idea what I'm doing
but I would go with just SB and send video to the two D3's. It's just short of a couple grand by time you add in hotel, food, entertainment. all for 2 schools...not to mention your time.
Fwiw my p/of just finished HF/Stanford w a two day break in between and he’s beat. I think they’re high stress events. Velo down a bit at second event. He did well but not awesome. I’m not sure if that’s fatigue related.
We don’t have the tournament experience others have so I can’t compare.
I am not sure about your kid but the hotel beds are uncomfortable and my kid does not sleep well on them and given the stress the super camps cause and almost every kid I know went balls out, I too would be concerned about recovery and getting peak performance out of the 2nd showcase
What is a good approach for booking flights for the event? I’m planning on arriving middle of the day before to settle in. How about the return flight? Is it a good idea to book a later flight on the last day of the event or should we just fly out the next morning?
Where are you flying in? Calculate NYC traffic, rush hour, etc.
I’ve been told to fly into JFK. I think we’re just going to fly out the next morning. The latest flight for us would be 6:45 and I’d have a smelly/dirty 16 y/o kid racing around to eat and catch a flight
JFK is a good call. I will also echo the warning of traffic
@2022NYC posted:JFK is a good call. I will also echo the warning of traffic
We’re staying in Medford. What time do we need to head to JFK to make an 8am flight?
100% JFK, it’s the only real option for the island. My advice… dont race to the airport for the return flight. If anything I’d stay an extra night and when the camp breaks, head to a local beach (eg Robert Moses or Jones) to decompress. Book an early flight and leave at the crack of dawn to get to JFK. All much less stress.
