First, I’m not pointing the finger at a couple of recent posts. The posts just made me think about scenarios posted in the past and scenarios I know to be real from being local to me. 

Let’s say a parent helicopters and snow plows their kid’s way in life through senior year of high school. If the kid can’t get it done the parent does it for them or grabs them by the collar and drags them through the process. Problem with a grade or teacher? The parent takes care of it. Problem with a coach? The parent takes care of it. And the kid never has a part time job even if it’s just mowing a few lawns or shoveling some driveways. 

Now the kid goes off to college. Professors don’t care if you don’t show up for class. You flunk and get sent home. Next student up! The coach expects the kid to be responsible and carry himself as an 18yo adult. But the kid had never had to be a young adult. 

For the first time the freshman ball player is in a competitive situation. Other than a handful of studs thirty players are vying for about fifteen playing time spots. The coach has rules. There are no excuses. 

Then when the kid starts complaining things aren’t right at college the parent automatically believes their kid and wonders what went wrong. The problem is the professors and the coach. At least it’s what the parents want to believe. The kid would never stretch the truth to protect himself.

The reality is the parent never allowed the kid any responsibility and the opportunity to grow up. The second the parent’s car pulls away from campus freshman year the kid is expected to be a responsible, functioning adult. Go figure, it doesn’t always work out. 

** The dream is free. Work ethic sold separately. **

Original Post

Good post. My son is an only child and has somewhat been eased along. He's a really good student so we've never had to complain about grades or to coaches about playing time. However, high school has proven to be a little more of a challenge and my wife and I are trying to stand back and let him "advocate for himself". It is tough to watch him struggle, but whether he succeeds in baseball or he's done after high school, he will need to know how to deal with adversity and solve problems on his own. 

My son had a teammate his freshman year who had the worst helicopter dad of all time.  Sad thing is, 4 years later and his kid is a senior at another school and he's still doing it.  Posting videos of the kid throwing bullpens (my son would have killed me if I did that) and taking shots at the former program/coach in social media any chance he gets.   It's become quite comical for some of us former parents to follow his antics. 

I dont care how much money you make, if you want your kid to be a functional adult they should hold down a job in High School.  Teach the kid the value of interaction, earned money, and personal agency.  Agreed about going to teachers about grades. Can't do it.  And certainly never interfere with coaches.  When they go off to college, do you think a coach is going to give a lick about what you have to say?  

I don’t necessarily agree that a high school kid needs to have a job in order to mature, especially as an athlete. If your athlete is aspiring to play ball at the D-1 or a competitive program at any college level, they are going to have to work far more (and harder) than a 2-hr practice after school when out of season. Oh...taking AP courses? Tack on time for that too. Look, I get it, everyone on this board walked 7 miles in the snow to school, barefoot no less, and that is what made them adults.  But let’s face it, and this is for the parents of 2022-2023+ kids who aspire to play competitive HS and/or collegiate baseball: If they aren’t working hard on their game or grades, don’t gripe to anyone but yourselves that they didn’t have time to get extra practice in because they were bagging groceries. It’s a different world, and while I know there are always one-off exceptions, you are really kidding yourselves if you think any parent is getting their kid a roster spot because of the work ethic they showed by having a part time job.

That's one of the reason my son has, throughout high school, always played on travel teams that were perhaps just a bit of a reach for him.   He's the kid who had to battle for a spot on the A Team and either ended up on the B Team or batted 10th.  Adversity is nothing new for him.  He's learned from it and it has forced him to make adjustments and work.

There are dozens of travel teams within a 3 hour radius of where we live, he could easily be batting 3rd and playing Shortstop on many of them.  Instead he's told he's too slow to be a middle and instead he plays 1B/3B and is working hard on improving his speed.  He also now has plenty of experience competing against future D1 players and future draft picks.  He knows what it takes.  He's faced 92 mph fastballs and wicked sliders at the age of 16.

I don't understand the mentality of making things easy for kids.  It hurts them in the end.  Maybe my kid will never play above low level JUCO or D3, but he will certainly be prepared to deal with adversity.

collegebaseballrecruitingguide posted:

I don’t necessarily agree that a high school kid needs to have a job in order to mature, especially as an athlete. If your athlete is aspiring to play ball at the D-1 or a competitive program at any college level, they are going to have to work far more (and harder) than a 2-hr practice after school when out of season. Oh...taking AP courses? Tack on time for that too. Look, I get it, everyone on this board walked 7 miles in the snow to school, barefoot no less, and that is what made them adults.  But let’s face it, and this is for the parents of 2022-2023+ kids who aspire to play competitive HS and/or collegiate baseball: If they aren’t working hard on their game or grades, don’t gripe to anyone but yourselves that they didn’t have time to get extra practice in because they were bagging groceries. It’s a different world, and while I know there are always one-off exceptions, you are really kidding yourselves if you think any parent is getting their kid a roster spot because of the work ethic they showed by having a part time job.

Not sure these things have to be mutually exclusive.  My son is training his ass off 3-4 days a week.  Takes demanding courses, including 2 AP's. He has been working with a tutor since July to prep for the ACT.  My point was about forging an appreciation of money and agency w/personal time management.  Not really about the "uphill both ways" trope, but more about understanding that those tutors, travel teams, camps, hotels...all come at a cost. And if they work on their own, they realize and appreciate it.  'Hey, I just worked a whole day as a counselor and made 80 bucks..that wouldn't even pay for a personal training session, or a hotel room".  It's good for kids to understand this, not just theoretically.  And they have to be on time, deal with a hard boss, not slack off, etc etc.  I am not arguing against any of your points about the hard work required...I'm saying to really grasp the college experience (including the exorbitant costs of it), and fully prepare for it, having a job at some point before they ship off is invaluable IMO 

Both of my kids worked in high school. Neither worked their freshman year of college. Now my daughter is working in a graduate assistantship in her field, my son is playing baseball. She gets paid, he gets tuition help. I consider both of them investing in their chosen careers.

We raised them both to be very independent. They don't call for things like "i have a problem with this teacher or this coach." But they do call. They ask things like "what should I do with my kitten when I'm having a party this weekend?"  "My wallet was just stolen, what do I do?"

Parent always will have a role in raising their kids. I still call my dad for advice and I'm 50-plus. The trick is to find the appropriate role at each stage of their lives.

Solid content again, RJM.... i'd like to think we made our kids take responsibility through HS for grades etc as wife is an AP in Cobb County but still have life lessons along the way for them to learn. Son is doing well outside the house and daughter is in failure to launch mode. We have set a deadline and she is saving $$ to be out by spring and transfer to KSU. I'can't imagine what the parents go through who have kids who havent been given the reigns and equipped to be independent.

collegebaseballrecruitingguide posted:

I don’t necessarily agree that a high school kid needs to have a job in order to mature, especially as an athlete. If your athlete is aspiring to play ball at the D-1 or a competitive program at any college level, they are going to have to work far more (and harder) than a 2-hr practice after school when out of season. Oh...taking AP courses? Tack on time for that too. Look, I get it, everyone on this board walked 7 miles in the snow to school, barefoot no less, and that is what made them adults.  But let’s face it, and this is for the parents of 2022-2023+ kids who aspire to play competitive HS and/or collegiate baseball: If they aren’t working hard on their game or grades, don’t gripe to anyone but yourselves that they didn’t have time to get extra practice in because they were bagging groceries. It’s a different world, and while I know there are always one-off exceptions, you are really kidding yourselves if you think any parent is getting their kid a roster spot because of the work ethic they showed by having a part time job.

...watched NFL Gametime or whatever it was a couple weeks ago.  James Lofton was one of the studio hosts.  In one segment, they flashed all time receiving yards on the graphics behind him.  It showed "James Lofton 14,xxx yds", about 12th all time and also showed the couple guys above him in yards.  He circles his yards and says "What you need to know about these receiving yards is that they were all up hill...."

Wechson posted:
collegebaseballrecruitingguide posted:

I don’t necessarily agree that a high school kid needs to have a job in order to mature, especially as an athlete. If your athlete is aspiring to play ball at the D-1 or a competitive program at any college level, they are going to have to work far more (and harder) than a 2-hr practice after school when out of season. Oh...taking AP courses? Tack on time for that too. Look, I get it, everyone on this board walked 7 miles in the snow to school, barefoot no less, and that is what made them adults.  But let’s face it, and this is for the parents of 2022-2023+ kids who aspire to play competitive HS and/or collegiate baseball: If they aren’t working hard on their game or grades, don’t gripe to anyone but yourselves that they didn’t have time to get extra practice in because they were bagging groceries. It’s a different world, and while I know there are always one-off exceptions, you are really kidding yourselves if you think any parent is getting their kid a roster spot because of the work ethic they showed by having a part time job.

Not sure these things have to be mutually exclusive.  My son is training his ass off 3-4 days a week.  Takes demanding courses, including 2 AP's. He has been working with a tutor since July to prep for the ACT.  My point was about forging an appreciation of money and agency w/personal time management.  Not really about the "uphill both ways" trope, but more about understanding that those tutors, travel teams, camps, hotels...all come at a cost. And if they work on their own, they realize and appreciate it.  'Hey, I just worked a whole day as a counselor and made 80 bucks..that wouldn't even pay for a personal training session, or a hotel room".  It's good for kids to understand this, not just theoretically.  And they have to be on time, deal with a hard boss, not slack off, etc etc.  I am not arguing against any of your points about the hard work required...I'm saying to really grasp the college experience (including the exorbitant costs of it), and fully prepare for it, having a job at some point before they ship off is invaluable IMO 

I'm very much with Wech on this one.  Even when the baseball work becomes extensive, to many kids, it is not perceived as "real work" and there isn't the direct correlation of "earn this to pay for that".  Also, with baseball work, there is (or better be) a passion attached.  We will all face situations in "regular life" when we have to work in an environment where there is no such associated passion, even if for short periods of time.  Definitely a lesson better learned at an early age.  It's not about getting a roster spot because of work ethic.  It's about being prepared for life outside of baseball.  In fact, most of the many teammates son has had during his college career have had to balance some amount of "regular work" in with their significant baseball and academic time demands while in college.  

I’m just wondering how/when things changed. When I was a kid, lo, those many moons ago, there didn’t seem to be helicopter parents. Mine never asked about anything and I never complained to them. But they were practically at every game I and my brothers played in. 

My son didn’t work in college. He didn’t have time. In the summer he was busy taking classes online when he wasn’t playing ball. He got his undergrad degree in three years. Going in with five to play four due to injury he had his sights on two degrees in five years. 

But from thirteen to eighteen he hustled for work. My daughter (played college softball) also worked in summers in high school and college. 

My kids grew up in a town where I had to teach them they could have everything they need and some of what they want. The rest they had to work for. They had friends who got everything they wanted. Friends were getting mommy’s Mercedes, Beemers, Lexus’, etc. coming off lease in high school. My kids got six year old Honda Civics senior year as early graduation presents. But they had to pay one-third. 

We lived on a golf course. Starting at thirteen my son caddied. His friends asked why he didn’t just ask his parents for the money. In high school he bussed tables during Christmas dinner party season and made $100 bucks a night. His friends teased the hell out of him calling him Hispanic names and asked if he was in the country legally. He just rubbed his fingers at them (the money signal). In the summer a couple of friends and he banged on doors to mow lawns. It worked out so well one of the kids skipped college and now has a successful landscaping business.

My daughter worked as a nanny in the summer during the week in high school. In college she had 22u for six weekends. Other than those weekends she continued to be a nanny. One year in August the family took her to Europe for three weeks.

Neither kid sacrificed what they needed to do to get to college ball and stay there. They worked around it. If anything suffered it might have been their social life.

Why did my kids work? To earn the money for some of what they wanted. In LL my son used a $29  Jeter style Rawlings glove. In middle school I got him a $90 Muzano glove. He wanted an A2000. I told him when he’s in high school and proves he’s on track for varsity I’ll buy him any baseball equipment he wants. I did the same for his (older) sister with softball. He wanted the A2000 so badly he caddied until he had the money to buy it himself for 8th grade. And had it monogrammed.

Baseball playing son and his older brother both worked in HS.  Time management  served them well, and the extra cash helped put gas in the car and Chick-fil-a  with the gf.

To give you an idea, let me list some of the jobs:  golf cart attendant, which included tips; trampoline facility assistant; umpiring the local little league games; assistant to the facilities guy at our church (help painting, projects, etc); baseball camps; baby sitting; snow shoveling for the elderly couple across the street.  Although not straight A students, both were in the honor and beta societies which required volunteer hours.

They both worked around their HS sports.  Neither worked in fast food, which required more regular/scheduled hours. All jobs were very part time, but taught them so many lessons, like money doesn't always need to come from the BOD (Bank of Dad).   

They were also expected to do chores around the house/yard AND their own laundry. I washed the uniforms.

Like Iowamom, in college, the baseball son's scholarship helped with tuition and the older son worked (and traveled) as a basketball manager at an ACC school, which also helped a bit with the tuition.  They did this while still taking a full load each semester.

Call me old fashioned.  Their wives will thank me one day.

Between coaching HS ball for several years and some travel, I was front row to many players who were recruited to varying degrees to play in college.  From that group, I was able to predict with very high success who would make it through year one in the college baseball program and who wouldn't.  It was almost always a direct reflection on which kids had to earn their way and which were particularly hand held through HS by the parents.   

Dear hand holder parents - in the moment, it is easy to think you are helping assure they are put in the best position to succeed but, in fact, you are doing the opposite.

3and2Fastball posted:

That's one of the reason my son has, throughout high school, always played on travel teams that were perhaps just a bit of a reach for him.   He's the kid who had to battle for a spot on the A Team and either ended up on the B Team or batted 10th.  Adversity is nothing new for him.  He's learned from it and it has forced him to make adjustments and work.

There are dozens of travel teams within a 3 hour radius of where we live, he could easily be batting 3rd and playing Shortstop on many of them.  Instead he's told he's too slow to be a middle and instead he plays 1B/3B and is working hard on improving his speed.  He also now has plenty of experience competing against future D1 players and future draft picks.  He knows what it takes.  He's faced 92 mph fastballs and wicked sliders at the age of 16.

I don't understand the mentality of making things easy for kids.  It hurts them in the end.  Maybe my kid will never play above low level JUCO or D3, but he will certainly be prepared to deal with adversity.

My son was exactly like your son. But those lessons learned made him a better player and now is a D1 commit. The "stars" of those elite travel teams that once were getting all the playing time are now average at best and are begging for attention from D3 schools. Hard work and determination pays off!

My son works 30 hours a week plays baseball and takes 2 college courses while in HS. Those courses aren’t at our local CC they are at a HA D3 school. Not one for really smart kids who work hard like mine but ok for a HS student. He has already notified the schools he is willing to interview and is scheduling them for a home visit. 

I just hope he decides where he is going to be a 2 way star before thanksgiving. 

Qhead posted:
adbono posted:

A friend is a recruiter for a Fortune 500 company. He told me that on a number of occasions mom has showed up along with the applicant on the initial job interview. 

Please tell me this is a joke ad man!

 I’ve read article about this in business journals. Parents have also called or shown up at their adult children’s office to discuss raises and promotions. 

There are companies sending hires to etiquette school. The hires don’t know how to properly hold a knife and a fork to cut meat or know the difference between a salad fork and a dinner fork.

If work involves taking clients to dinner it’s relevant.

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