newagent,
Where did you get the idea I was a recruiter? Did I say that?
I am a parent of a former college Clemson player that was drafted who went through the process twice. I am in no way connected in the business of college or probaseball other than knowing people in that profession. I have no agenda here but as a parent to TRY to help others in the college process and maybe understanding all the pro stuff from a parents point of view. Everyone here knows who I am, including swingbuilder.
I have been registered with the HSBBW since 2003 and if you have been reading for a while, my name is a shortened version of my original name, and my profile says just what I am, a baseball mom.
If you do wish to help parents, a good suggestion is trying to read before you jump in to feel out this site, It is unlike most you may have ever followed.
I apologize, I thought I misread one of your postings. I just thought with all of your anti-agent (except for the one who represents your son) and NCAA sympathizer stance, I just thought you were either a recruiter or booster. I guess we both have a lot to learn about prejuding people.
quote:Originally posted by newagent:
I apologize, I thought I misread one of your postings. I just thought with all of your anti-agent (except for the one who represents your son) and NCAA sympathizer stance, I just thought you were either a recruiter or booster. I guess we both have a lot to learn about prejuding people.
I accept that apolgy. I also want you to know that having an agent was my son's choice. Our only advice was that he choose one that was recognized though MLB.
Those that know me, know as a parent I am a go to college first supporter. But I do beleive that everyone's situation and desires (not a parent plane ticket or own room) is different and is very important in the final decison of pro vs. college.
Choosing an advisor/agent is not important in most cases unless that is important to the player.
quote:
I just want them to adequately compensate those that contribute to their success. While full tuition is great, I think they can do more. By more I mean pay more.
With that said, I just want to learn. And therefore, that is my agenda.
I am not sure of the above statement but the NCAA does NOT fund scholarships. The schools do, the NCAA only mandates how much for each sport, etc., etc. etc. I have my own opinions on the NCAA, but I can't complain. They gave son a nice stage to play on that was worth it's weight in gold.
Oh yeah, they did give him a gift certificate to go shop at Circuit City.
So if you didn't know and you want to learn, than we both learned something, right, I about negotiating parent plane tickets and own rooms and you about the above.
Getting back to the original question:
As a rough estimate, plan on pocketing about 5/8 of the bonus money after state and federal income taxes. This will vary depending on how big the bonus is (and therefore, what your tax bracket will be), but surprisingly, not by that much.
Talk to an investment advisor about how much annual income you could expect that remaining principal to throw off. Then figure out how much you'll need to live on. Bear in mind that in rookie ball, the pay is about $1,200/month gross, and you only get paid during the months you're in uniform. You'll probably earn $7,200/year, and with taxes and a housing/food allowance taken out, you'll not have enough cash to make ends meet. That means either you continue to live off your parents (as you would if you went to college, most likely), or you work in the offseason, or you start eating into that bonus money.
If you asked 1,000 people how much it would take to get them to go pro out of HS, you'd get 1,000 different answers. It does depend on how much you value a college education and the life experience of college (which, let's face it, is one of the most fun times of your life). It will most likely also depend on your background. If you come from money, a low six-figure bonus may not turn your head; you probably look at yourself as someone who can pull that down in the future anyway. If you come from a modest background, where retirement is often equated with trying to live off Social Security alone, low six figures sounds like an unimaginable amount of money, instant riches.
Most HS draft signees get 5-figure bonuses, and their money is gone within a few years. And most don't make it to MLB. So they can end up 25, broke, uneducated and unemployed. It's a cautionary tale, but it gets repeated all the time. On the other hand, there are plenty of young adults with no college and no savings, and lots of them start new careers and do just fine. It's just a lot harder to pull off than is life with a college degree on your resume.
A low six-figures bonus can also evaporate much more quickly than many think. Especially if you're the type who pays cash for a new car the moment the check is in your bank account.
Most kids would find mid-six figures hard to pass up, but every year there are many who do, and this year will be no exception. That's a tough call, because if you are in that bracket, you have to face the proverbial "bird in the hand/two in the bush" dilemma.
I can't imagine anyone turning down 7 figures, though I suppose someone somewhere would. But then, only about 15 high school kids per year even get that option. Not exactly a statistically significant percentage of the kids out there dreaming the big league dream, eh?
For most of these kids, the difference between what they can get out of HS, and what they would get if they waited until after college, ain't all that much. Often you can even improve your stock and do better in the draft after college. The mistake so many kids make is in thinking that it's an either/or -- either pro or college. The reality is, you can have college now and pro later, and not that much later at that. (Ask TPM how quickly it goes by!)
IMHO, a lot of these kids taking checks at age 18 would have been well advised to get college done and come back to their pro dreams at age 21 or 22. If they truly have the talent and the drive to make it in the pros, the option will still be there at that age. And if the option is gone due to injury or failure, then better to have found that out while getting a degree than not.
As a rough estimate, plan on pocketing about 5/8 of the bonus money after state and federal income taxes. This will vary depending on how big the bonus is (and therefore, what your tax bracket will be), but surprisingly, not by that much.
Talk to an investment advisor about how much annual income you could expect that remaining principal to throw off. Then figure out how much you'll need to live on. Bear in mind that in rookie ball, the pay is about $1,200/month gross, and you only get paid during the months you're in uniform. You'll probably earn $7,200/year, and with taxes and a housing/food allowance taken out, you'll not have enough cash to make ends meet. That means either you continue to live off your parents (as you would if you went to college, most likely), or you work in the offseason, or you start eating into that bonus money.
If you asked 1,000 people how much it would take to get them to go pro out of HS, you'd get 1,000 different answers. It does depend on how much you value a college education and the life experience of college (which, let's face it, is one of the most fun times of your life). It will most likely also depend on your background. If you come from money, a low six-figure bonus may not turn your head; you probably look at yourself as someone who can pull that down in the future anyway. If you come from a modest background, where retirement is often equated with trying to live off Social Security alone, low six figures sounds like an unimaginable amount of money, instant riches.
Most HS draft signees get 5-figure bonuses, and their money is gone within a few years. And most don't make it to MLB. So they can end up 25, broke, uneducated and unemployed. It's a cautionary tale, but it gets repeated all the time. On the other hand, there are plenty of young adults with no college and no savings, and lots of them start new careers and do just fine. It's just a lot harder to pull off than is life with a college degree on your resume.
A low six-figures bonus can also evaporate much more quickly than many think. Especially if you're the type who pays cash for a new car the moment the check is in your bank account.
Most kids would find mid-six figures hard to pass up, but every year there are many who do, and this year will be no exception. That's a tough call, because if you are in that bracket, you have to face the proverbial "bird in the hand/two in the bush" dilemma.
I can't imagine anyone turning down 7 figures, though I suppose someone somewhere would. But then, only about 15 high school kids per year even get that option. Not exactly a statistically significant percentage of the kids out there dreaming the big league dream, eh?
For most of these kids, the difference between what they can get out of HS, and what they would get if they waited until after college, ain't all that much. Often you can even improve your stock and do better in the draft after college. The mistake so many kids make is in thinking that it's an either/or -- either pro or college. The reality is, you can have college now and pro later, and not that much later at that. (Ask TPM how quickly it goes by!)
IMHO, a lot of these kids taking checks at age 18 would have been well advised to get college done and come back to their pro dreams at age 21 or 22. If they truly have the talent and the drive to make it in the pros, the option will still be there at that age. And if the option is gone due to injury or failure, then better to have found that out while getting a degree than not.
Very insightful post MD.
Can you say Luke Hochevar?
A scout once asked me regarding my son, "Do you think he's ready for pro ball?"
The summary of my answer was that he was a typical 18 year old kid, and although physically able to handle the job, I had reservations about how well he would do with the daily grind of life in the minors.
The scout response was, "... most 18 year olds weren't ready for pro ball, but we draft them anyway"
Can you say Luke Hochevar?
A scout once asked me regarding my son, "Do you think he's ready for pro ball?"
The summary of my answer was that he was a typical 18 year old kid, and although physically able to handle the job, I had reservations about how well he would do with the daily grind of life in the minors.
The scout response was, "... most 18 year olds weren't ready for pro ball, but we draft them anyway"
Midlodad,
That was pretty good and know that you have done some homework.
I still believe in the college experience, but I have changed my ways a bit. I used to think that was a given, but that is not always the case. Lots of factors you mention do come into play. We all know that talent and signability drive the draft (IMO anyway). And we know some teams prefer college over HS and vice versa. I just read somewhere in 2005 or 2006 the Cards drafted all college guys. This is not like college recruiting, you have some control to go after the schools you are intrested in, you have no say in this matter what so ever!
Funny, most of the kids I know that signed out of HS did so because they really wanted to play pro ball. On the whole, most are doing well, some moving a bit faster than others, and I think that has a lot to do with the organization. Will they make it to MLB? Some have, some might, some won't. Most of these were high picks, not later picks. The money they received (ranged from 7 figures to 100K) really had very little to do with the equation in deciding, what did factor in was their desire not to go to college but become a pro out of hS and work hard to make it happen, not plane tickets or their own rooms (I can't help it, that just cracks me up
).
That was pretty good and know that you have done some homework.
I still believe in the college experience, but I have changed my ways a bit. I used to think that was a given, but that is not always the case. Lots of factors you mention do come into play. We all know that talent and signability drive the draft (IMO anyway). And we know some teams prefer college over HS and vice versa. I just read somewhere in 2005 or 2006 the Cards drafted all college guys. This is not like college recruiting, you have some control to go after the schools you are intrested in, you have no say in this matter what so ever!
Funny, most of the kids I know that signed out of HS did so because they really wanted to play pro ball. On the whole, most are doing well, some moving a bit faster than others, and I think that has a lot to do with the organization. Will they make it to MLB? Some have, some might, some won't. Most of these were high picks, not later picks. The money they received (ranged from 7 figures to 100K) really had very little to do with the equation in deciding, what did factor in was their desire not to go to college but become a pro out of hS and work hard to make it happen, not plane tickets or their own rooms (I can't help it, that just cracks me up
I think Midlo Dad has a great explanation of how things work. You will get many different answers from many different people why they sign.
Money is not always the determining factor and I believe each family has a different economic situation. Scouts are aware too.
If you are thinking there is an easy way to the top, there is no easy way. I know have stated this before on other posts - not everyone is college material. 20% of the 8th graders in our State (IL) will eventually end up with a 4 year degree down the road. It is a great thing to get but we are all born with different "skills."
Money is not always the determining factor and I believe each family has a different economic situation. Scouts are aware too.
If you are thinking there is an easy way to the top, there is no easy way. I know have stated this before on other posts - not everyone is college material. 20% of the 8th graders in our State (IL) will eventually end up with a 4 year degree down the road. It is a great thing to get but we are all born with different "skills."
In 2006 the Cardinals first 11 picks attended college: Adam Ottavino, Chris Perez, Brad Furnish,John Jay, Mark Hamilton, Gary Daley, Eddie Degerman, Shane Robinson, Tyler Norrick, Luke Gorsett, and Allen Craig (my personal favorite due to his work ethic). However, according to Baseball America, 5 out of the top 10 cardinals prospects were drafted out of high school. Out of the five, three of the players Colby Rasmus, Bryan Anderson and Jaime Garcia are in the top 5, with Rasmus at #1.
As for finding humor in negotiating a plane ticket please consider the following true story:
I represented a player who defected from the Cuban National team in 1993. He actually climbed out of his hotel room in Buffalo (site of the tournament), he proceeded to open his hotel window, climb down the roof, jump over a fence and into an awaiting car. Oh, did I mention that he lefy a wife with unborn child behind in Cuba. Only one agent greeted this man, the same one who assisted or knew of his defection. They trusted this Agent of cuban heritge. However this agent of trust who shall remain nameless and incarcerated in a Federal Prison for the next five years due to his conviction for alien smuggling promised this man the world. Said agent made off with a lot of this player's money. In exchange for the world, this agent requested unconditional surrender of any economic gain. This revered picther from Cuba, has pitched for over 15 and only managed to appear in a little over 120 Major League games. Some of these appearance occurred in 2004. You remember 2004, the year that the players wen on strike. Well someone "advised" him to cross the line in 2004 not knowing what a union was and why players need it. With no signing bonus, no family and no one to trust he had no choice. Today he is 36 and out of options, but not a mortgage. He bounced around from independent league to independent league until he wound up playing pro ball in the Netherlands. And Pro Ball can not be that good over there. If it was we would never have seen Andruw Jones.
Anyway, fast forward to today. No "experienced" agent wants to put forth the effort needed to sign this guy. All the teams say he is too old. So I being "new" decide to help. I manage to arrange a closed and free bullpen session (rare now adays from what I here). He impressed management so they offered him $1,200 a months. If you ever want to see the purest description of a "disappointed look on someone's face," you tell a former major leaguer that your club is pleased to offer a contract for $1,200 a month; $18.00 per diem and a shared room at a California Comfort Inn with a guy in his late 20's who just got released from some other independent team that folded due to bankruptcy.
California is far from his home in Miami. As a result, he will again leave his wife and now three kids in order to pursue his American Dream which looks more like an american nightmare. I truly believe he might just be the first Cuban defector to actually regret his decision. So yes, I tried to negotiate the family's flight to California in the contract. When we last left off, we agreed to one ticket. A generous compromise, yet I felt like a failure (yes agents do have feelings, at least those who are too new to know any better). While some may crack up that an agent would negotiate a plane ticket into I fail to see the humor in this situation. But then again, one person keeps laughing.
As for finding humor in negotiating a plane ticket please consider the following true story:
I represented a player who defected from the Cuban National team in 1993. He actually climbed out of his hotel room in Buffalo (site of the tournament), he proceeded to open his hotel window, climb down the roof, jump over a fence and into an awaiting car. Oh, did I mention that he lefy a wife with unborn child behind in Cuba. Only one agent greeted this man, the same one who assisted or knew of his defection. They trusted this Agent of cuban heritge. However this agent of trust who shall remain nameless and incarcerated in a Federal Prison for the next five years due to his conviction for alien smuggling promised this man the world. Said agent made off with a lot of this player's money. In exchange for the world, this agent requested unconditional surrender of any economic gain. This revered picther from Cuba, has pitched for over 15 and only managed to appear in a little over 120 Major League games. Some of these appearance occurred in 2004. You remember 2004, the year that the players wen on strike. Well someone "advised" him to cross the line in 2004 not knowing what a union was and why players need it. With no signing bonus, no family and no one to trust he had no choice. Today he is 36 and out of options, but not a mortgage. He bounced around from independent league to independent league until he wound up playing pro ball in the Netherlands. And Pro Ball can not be that good over there. If it was we would never have seen Andruw Jones.
Anyway, fast forward to today. No "experienced" agent wants to put forth the effort needed to sign this guy. All the teams say he is too old. So I being "new" decide to help. I manage to arrange a closed and free bullpen session (rare now adays from what I here). He impressed management so they offered him $1,200 a months. If you ever want to see the purest description of a "disappointed look on someone's face," you tell a former major leaguer that your club is pleased to offer a contract for $1,200 a month; $18.00 per diem and a shared room at a California Comfort Inn with a guy in his late 20's who just got released from some other independent team that folded due to bankruptcy.
California is far from his home in Miami. As a result, he will again leave his wife and now three kids in order to pursue his American Dream which looks more like an american nightmare. I truly believe he might just be the first Cuban defector to actually regret his decision. So yes, I tried to negotiate the family's flight to California in the contract. When we last left off, we agreed to one ticket. A generous compromise, yet I felt like a failure (yes agents do have feelings, at least those who are too new to know any better). While some may crack up that an agent would negotiate a plane ticket into I fail to see the humor in this situation. But then again, one person keeps laughing.
quote:In 2006 the Cardinals first 11 picks attended college: Adam Ottavino, Chris Perez, Brad Furnish,John Jay, Mark Hamilton, Gary Daley, Eddie Degerman, Shane Robinson, Tyler Norrick, Luke Gorsett, and Allen Craig (my personal favorite due to his work ethic). However, according to Baseball America, 5 out of the top 10 cardinals prospects were drafted out of high school. Out of the five, three of the players Colby Rasmus, Bryan Anderson and Jaime Garcia are in the top 5, with Rasmus at #1.
Jaime Garcia was not a pick out of HS. He was picked out of the Mexican Baseball league by the same scout that picked him the year before in 2005 when he was with the Orioles out of a HS in south south Texas. He did not sign and he did not graduate from HS in south Texas. I will not reveal what he signed for. He was a 22nd round pick.
You newagent would never get a room or a plane ticket from a club for a player in the states that was drafted out of HS or college. That foreign player and his experience lend to a totatl different set of rules.
We are talking about players who have options to go to college vs. playing proball and being careful about the NCAA rules. Not cuban defects.
In regards to the plane ticket there is no argument that made sense.
You should adjust your advice to your audience.
JMO.
In regards to the plane ticket there is no argument that made sense.
You should adjust your advice to your audience.
JMO.
First: the defector went to college, the advisor sent him there. I have a different perspective than you. Again, we disagree on certain issues, you have your position and I have mine. What makes sense to me may not make sense to you. The blog dictates what we talk about. After all this is a community. And as you seem to demonstarte some members are more welcome than others. Maybe one day you will warm up, but until then I will accept your coldness towards me as skepticism. So from one skeptic to another, I understand. With that said, I would like to believe that my audience encompasses more than the community skeptic.
newagent,
your advice is welcome, but you got to put it in some order that makes sense.
For example, you give the impression that one may need an agent to negotiate plane fair and own hotel rooms which most likely may occur under special circumatances (the one you gave). So you went into that scenerio but never mentioned he went to college. We both know that teams don't do this.
On this site, what's important is the process and understanding for many player going off to college in one form or another or the college player. However, a good lesson that ALL circumstances are different and that is what people have to keep in mind.
You did come on here knocking the NCAA, then you changed your tune. You give a situation leave half of it out.
You are confusing.
your advice is welcome, but you got to put it in some order that makes sense.
For example, you give the impression that one may need an agent to negotiate plane fair and own hotel rooms which most likely may occur under special circumatances (the one you gave). So you went into that scenerio but never mentioned he went to college. We both know that teams don't do this.
On this site, what's important is the process and understanding for many player going off to college in one form or another or the college player. However, a good lesson that ALL circumstances are different and that is what people have to keep in mind.
You did come on here knocking the NCAA, then you changed your tune. You give a situation leave half of it out.
You are confusing.
