Help on how to handle a situation

@SpeedDemon posted:

2021 End of Year Travel Team Rankings (2024 Grads)

https://www.perfectgame.org/Ra...m/Default.aspx?R=332

This is a good list but not THE only list. At least 1 really good team is not on the list of 100 but “honorable mention”. My kids club (different year than him) was invited to USA baseball national championship this year. Only 16 invites so USA baseball thought they were “top 50”. They beat the #1 team on that list.

Lots of good advice already mentioned. Play ball and concentrate on getting faster/stronger/better and make others around you better.

As a parent, I do not talk to the coaches.  Only one exception ... when there is an injury and I need to help my son manage expectations with regards to the return to play (return to pitching) timeline.  Our HS promotes "self advocacy" with the student-athletes ... I try to nurture that value and capacity within my son.

@used2lurk posted:

This is a good list but not THE only list. At least 1 really good team is not on the list of 100 but “honorable mention”. My kids club (different year than him) was invited to USA baseball national championship this year. Only 16 invites so USA baseball thought they were “top 50”. They beat the #1 team on that list.

Lots of good advice already mentioned. Play ball and concentrate on getting faster/stronger/better and make others around you better.

OK. But a better argument, rather than the results of one game / who got invited to one tournament, would be that the rankings are based on a PG-only data set, and therefore not reflective of the totality of national-level play.

Are there other rankings readily available? Would love a link if possible. Thanks.

Parents and players put way too much stock in PG rankings. To some extent rankings can be influenced by the amount of money a player pays to the “scouting service” in question. So they aren’t without bias and coaches know that. Team rankings are especially subjective and mean nothing to anyone other than the members of those teams. Most coaches aren’t offering a player without seeing him play. Usually multiple times. With a few exceptions (that are usually pitchers) offers aren’t typically issued from just reviewing video. And once you get to campus rankings mean absolutely nothing. Best player plays.

@adbono posted:

Parents and players put way too much stock in PG rankings. To some extent rankings can be influenced by the amount of money a player pays to the “scouting service” in question. So they aren’t without bias and coaches know that. Team rankings are especially subjective and mean nothing to anyone other than the members of those teams. Most coaches aren’t offering a player without seeing him play. Usually multiple times. With a few exceptions (that are usually pitchers) offers aren’t typically issued from just reviewing video. And once you get to campus rankings mean absolutely nothing. Best player plays.

Sure but what’s the alternative?

If tournament data is easily and readily available, why not use it?

@BB and BB posted:

He does not play football.  He runs sub 6.8.  Is a RH hitter.  Xavier and Michigan (that I know of) have seen him hit good pitching at scout tournaments and events this summer.  I have not placed my son in D1.  I just know he has the ability.  And I expect him to be offered next summer.  It is important to me because he is my son and I love him and want what is best for him.

Hi BB,

I haven't replied to one of these posts in a long time.  Almost every angle has been covered already - I hope you are picking up on some of the nuances of the replies.  Based on your last comment, it seems you are.

I want to focus on the last sentence of your quote above.  It seems your son has certainly been blessed with the talent and skill set to succeed at this game at a high level.  Check.  The next really important aspect is what type of teammate he is.  If you want what is best for him, it is really important to use this situation as a teaching/learning experience.  This works two ways.  What example are you setting by your words and behavior and what guidance are you giving him (how is he handling the situation)?  Ideally, with your encouragement, he is embracing the position change as another way he can help the team win with the assumption the move is made to put the best possible nine on the field for the team to succeed.  Just as important, he should be embracing the new CF, making him feel comfortable as an important contributor to the team and helping him in every possible way to succeed.  He should be doing all of this with a positive attitude.  That's what good team players do.  Those players are usually able to do so by seeing the example set and hearing that encouragement from their parents.  And, yes, even at 16, our sons and daughters are still being shaped in part by our words and actions.

It doesn't matter if your son is the better CF.  Maybe it's politics.  Maybe it is a move the coach is making to put out the best nine.  I could go into much greater detail with that aspect but it doesn't matter either way.  Be the best you can be.  Help the team be the best they can be.  Be a positive presence on the field and in the dugout... with EVERY player and coach on the TEAM.  Every day.  This, along with the talent and skill set will not only put him in the best place to advance in his career but it is the right thing to do.

As a dad (or mom) setting the example, do the same.  Root for every player with the same team-minded mentality.  Be part of the group that douses or ignores negative parent chatter and, instead, is a positive supporter of the program (and I don't mean financially).   

Side note (secondary to my message above)... my fairly fast talented CF son started as a frosh in HS as well.  Throughout his HS career, he started at CF, then at various times, played both other OF positions, 1B and C.  For most of the time, he was the best CF but moves were necessary to put the best nine on the field, including putting my LH son behind the dish one season.  Later, his experience at those positions benefited him greatly through a five year college career during which he played all three OF spots.  Many other situations arose that I would never have thought of that brought about the position changes, whether for just a game or much longer.

Best to you..

Excellent post by @cabbagedad!

@BB and BB Moving from CF to RF isn't a "demotion," it says that your son has a great arm with accuracy and the coach values it!

On 2024's HS and summer teams, the best arms are in RF and they are very athletic.

When your boy gets to college, Mr. Coach may see him contributing somewhere else! Best wishes!

A lot of great advice here, but I guess I’m feeling a little salty today… I can think only 3 reason to start a conversation with a HC – abuse (physical or emotional), injury/illness or saying thank you – I believe everything else should be handled by the athlete.

The HS coach is our kids’ first experience in having a job and dealing with the dynamics of having a real boss. A boss that has complete control of something they value. There are great bosses and there are terrible bosses, but if you value your job you need to find a way to make it work…  IMO, nothing good comes from a parent getting involved in this lesson.

The best thing about baseball are the life lessons, everything else is bonus…

PG ratings don’t matter. Only the metrics matter. Then, how the player performs matters. The players are at the top of the ratings are known by the college coaches and pro scouts as top prospects. After these guys it doesn’t matter if you’re #250 or #700. It’s going to be about how you perform when you’re being watched. It doesn’t matter if you’re #1200 or #1800. It’s still about how you perform.

Chances are metrics are the dividing lines in the ratings. But once last the top pro prospects it’s about looking good when it counts. When does it it count? When a college coach shows up to watch because your travel coach presold you can play the game and are a good fit for their program.

Has the other CF performed well - hitting, defense and baserunning?  If so then what's the big deal?  You mentioned he had an error - it happens.  You son has or will make an error. 

The other CF did not perform well this season.  My issue is why don't you  promote and highlight  your premier top players.  If you had a 1st team all conference SS you wouldn't play him at 2B or 1B.  Not only would you be doing the team a disservice, you are doing the student athlete a disservice.  Give your best player the prestige position.  We have a catcher who was also 1st team all conference.  Why not play him at 3rd?  He can field ground balls and make the long throw.  We have another catcher.  It doesn't make sense. 

Two things  — if a player asks the coach why he moved him from CF to RF or any other position, my guess is the answer is "because that's where I need you."

And second, not talking to your son's high school coach is GREAT practice for not talking to your son's college coach. I literally had three conversations with the guy during my son's five years in college — once when he offered him, once when son got his first collegiate win, and last time, on the field when son was recognized for graduating.

It all worked out.

We have two simple rules:

1. Leave the coach alone unless u want to volunteer to coach.

2. Refer to rule 1!

There is not a single position on the bench that is better than any position on the field.  If you ask, you can alienate the coach.

Son started junior year as varsity catcher for an injured senior. Senior returns, he loses the job.  JETson talks to the coach about how can he get back on the field.  Hits a bases loaded pinch hit grand slam. He starts RF the rest of the year. No complaints.

Senior year, new coach, good senior player gets to prove himself as catcher for 4 weeks before state swim season is over.  JETson plays 7 positions before taking over third base, no SS or CF.  No complaints.

Voted Best Teammate by the players.

Recruited as a catcher from his travel team.  Specifically from a scout day they held where he kept hitting the wall with line drives.  A few made it out.

Nobody saw him play in HS.  I take that back, several pro scouts were at his games to watch the guys throwing low to mid 90's.  Doubt they knew he was in the game. So, nobody saw him play in HS.

It's up to your son to talk to the coach.  Time for him to start adulting.  Time for you to let him man up and ask what he can do to improve himself or what he can do to help the team win.  That's a question a coach can respect and that kind of attitude will get reported back to any coaches from D1 that might call.

@BB and BB posted:

The other CF did not perform well this season.  My issue is why don't you  promote and highlight  your premier top players.  If you had a 1st team all conference SS you wouldn't play him at 2B or 1B.  Not only would you be doing the team a disservice, you are doing the student athlete a disservice.  Give your best player the prestige position.  We have a catcher who was also 1st team all conference.  Why not play him at 3rd?  He can field ground balls and make the long throw.  We have another catcher.  It doesn't make sense.

What does not perform well exactly mean?  End of the day there are two types of players on a team during a game.  Those in the lineup playing somewhere that get to hit or guys on the bench.  I would rather start at a secondary position then be back up at my primary position.  Why is your son playing HS baseball?  Does he want to help his team win or does he want to be seen to go to college?  If it's the first then go out and play.  If it's the second he (or probably you) need to re-evaluate your priorities.

@BB and BB posted:

The other CF did not perform well this season.  My issue is why don't you  promote and highlight  your premier top players.  If you had a 1st team all conference SS you wouldn't play him at 2B or 1B.  Not only would you be doing the team a disservice, you are doing the student athlete a disservice.  Give your best player the prestige position.  We have a catcher who was also 1st team all conference.  Why not play him at 3rd?  He can field ground balls and make the long throw.  We have another catcher.  It doesn't make sense.

My son was a first team all conference shortstop soph year. His junior year two players were competing for the one starting spot. One was a shortstop. One was an outfielder. My son was told if the shortstop won the job he would be moved to center. He was. He became a first team all conference outfielder. The shortstop didn’t make all conference at any level that year. The new shortstop made more errors than my son would have made in his nightmares.

The team won its first conference title in twenty years, made it through districts and went to states for the first time in thirty years. They repeated winning the conference the next year. It was the first time they ever won back to back. You do what is best for the team.

Wait until college ball if you want to play a serious game of “what is that guy doing there?” After a solid freshman year, making the All Freshman team and hitting .300 he returned in the fall to find a junior JuCo All American at his position. My son was moved to another position. He was moved to another position the following year. None of it had anything to do with his ability or lack of it. It was about his versatility and what was best for the team.

Is the real issue your right to pound your chest and brag your son plays an elite position?  My son’s high school team had three travel ball center fielders. They ran 6.5, 6,6 and 6.8 sixties. Only one could play center on the high school team except when the #1 center fielder pitched.

Sounds like you see playing RF as the LL mentality.  When you reach HS, RF should not be worst player in the OF.  My son who is now at a P5 school played RF most the time when he was not pitching.  He threw 8-10 hitters out at 1st from RF and there is no one else on the field who can do that.  If your son is truly that much better than the other OF's then everyone will see it, not just his dad.  We never saw it as a disservice but a chance to use his arm where it best fit the team.  Remember, no one recruits HS players, especially Outfielders in HS.  That is why they play travel ball.

Question: When we conducted ML tryouts, the pro scouts had all the OF's throw from RF. When Cal Ripken played SS with the Orioles the CF was a average arm. Cal would go deep on cutoffs as his arm was stronger than the CF.

Morale of the story "baseball teaches adjustments". For players, for parents and definitely for the Coach.

Bob

My kid loved RF this summer, he has decent speed but the coach loved his arm as it got out a lot of greedy runners and saved several runs.

Have watched a ton of high level HS baseball and paid close attention to the OF because thats where my guys played.  In a HS hitting lineup 1-4 follow the typical hit chart distribution.  5-9 skew to RF...so a RFer with a strong arm to stop the automatic 1st to 3rd and  can go get it.... is more valuable than a CF that can go get it...in the HS game....food for thought...

@LaunchAngle posted:

Have watched a ton of high level HS baseball and paid close attention to the OF because thats where my guys played.  In a HS hitting lineup 1-4 follow the typical hit chart distribution.  5-9 skew to RF...so a RFer with a strong arm to stop the automatic 1st to 3rd and  can go get it.... is more valuable than a CF that can go get it...in the HS game....food for thought...

The best defensive OF will play center in HS. It isn't until you start getting to the higher levels where things like arm matters. A RF with a stronger arm is not more valuable than a strong defensive CF.

The best defender on the oldest's HS team was the CF. He had a D1 glove and D3 bat. He started every game for 4 years. The future D1 All American played RF. The CF went to an Ivy and gave up baseball.

@BB and BB posted:

...My issue is why don't you  promote and highlight  your premier top players.  ...Give your best player the prestige position.  We have a catcher who was also 1st team all conference.  Why not play him at 3rd?  He can field ground balls and make the long throw.  We have another catcher.  It doesn't make sense.

I'll try one more time.  We are not talking about travel or showcase ball.  We're talking about HS where it is a team sport and the primary objective is to play and win as a team.  Not promotion of premier players.  Not giving players a position because it is considered "prestige".  Whether the coach is doing this effectively or not, whether there are also politically motivated decisions being made, not the point.

Regarding your all conference catcher scenario -

If, for example, you have another strong catcher that has a great bat but isn't as capable of playing another position as your #1 catcher, a good coach may just do that change if the pluses outweigh the minuses in the "best nine" equation.  I've done just that.  Yes, moving a good C out of the position will typically have far more impact than swapping OF positions but the concept still stands. 

BB, it's not too late but I sense it's getting close.

@BB and BB posted:

The other CF did not perform well this season.  My issue is why don't you  promote and highlight  your premier top players.  If you had a 1st team all conference SS you wouldn't play him at 2B or 1B.  Not only would you be doing the team a disservice, you are doing the student athlete a disservice.  Give your best player the prestige position.  We have a catcher who was also 1st team all conference.  Why not play him at 3rd?  He can field ground balls and make the long throw.  We have another catcher.  It doesn't make sense.

High school ball is an extension of the local rec league. Nothing more.

*********

Here's an exercise for you to help the coaches:

- fill a Big Gulp cup halfway with ice

- open a beer and put it on the ice

- fill the remaining space with more ice

- put the lid on

- insert a straw

- go down the RF line, set up your chair

- score the game using pencil and paper

- enjoy and be sure to thank everyone on the way out

BB;

Does your team's scorebook tracks  "LOB" and wins and loss?

Bob

My input would be to control what you can control.  If your player is in the lineup, no matter what positions and no matter what slot in the batting order, he will have opportunity to perform.  Sometimes these situations aren't the most clear to all involved for whatever reason.  Players,  and certainly not parent, should not say anything to the coach and play hard when asked.

Happened to my 2015...HS SR had to play 2nd (6'4-225lb) to only stick out like a sore thumb even though recruited C...Recruited by D1 and was told due to flexibility (C,DH & 3) even though waiting for answer on another C recruit extended and offer which if not playing 2 SR year maybe doesn't happen and lastly in College 2015 had to DH sometime even though he felt he was the best C option.

Baseball has afforded my D1 2015 an abundant of life lessons.  He has learned these lessons that are helping him in the corporate world....1. not always does the best person get the job or get the deserved promotion 2. It doesn't really matter what the employee thinks and doing the task asked to the best of their ability is expected and 3. Challenging the superiors is not typically a wise decision because after all your player will be looked upon to be a "Team Player".

The above are attributes experienced by players and are probably the reason they will be successful when their time comes.  Just my opinion.  Hope all goes well.

@SpeedDemon posted:

High school ball is an extension of the local rec league. Nothing more.

*********

Here's an exercise for you to help the coaches:

- fill a Big Gulp cup halfway with ice

- open a beer and put it on the ice

- fill the remaining space with more ice

- put the lid on

- insert a straw

- go down the RF line, set up your chair

- score the game using pencil and paper

- enjoy and be sure to thank everyone on the way out

High school ball is an extension of rec ball, nothing more. What a condescending, snobbish travel ball parent remark.You must be real popular at the high school games.

I’ll bet most of the poster’s kids in this site were proud to represent their high school, prepared and competed as hard as any team and never thought of it as rec ball. Many of them played second and some third sports in high school they took seriously.

We have a conference all star tournament sponsored by the local MLB team. It’s an earned honor to be named to one of the teams. It’s so rec ball colleges from a hundred miles in each direction show up to scout players.

Wow! High school is rec ball. Peeee Uuuuuu.

@RJM posted:

High school ball is an extension of rec ball. What a condescending, snobbish travel ball parent remark.

I’ll bet most of the poster’s kids in this site were proud to represent their high school, prepared and competed as hard as any team and never thought of it as rec ball.

We have a conference all star tournament sponsored by the local MLB team. It’s an earned honor to be named to one of the teams. It’s so rec ball colleges from a hundred miles in each direction show up to scout players.

Wow! High school is rec ball. Peeee Uuuuuu.

Your response is not the putdown you intended it to be. Far from it.

By saying that

- "HS ball is an extension of rec" is a condescending, snobbish travel ball parent remark shows that you respect neither HS nor rec.

You also imply that

- HS players are not proud to represent their school

- HS players are not prepared

- HS players are not competing hard

I wrote none of those things; you did.

You might want to google "self-awareness" and brush up on "dissonance". Because only someone who is dimly aware of themselves, and has a very low opinion of HS ball and rec ball would write what you wrote.

@SpeedDemon posted:

Your response is not the putdown you intended it to be. Far from it.

By saying that

- "HS ball is an extension of rec" is a condescending, snobbish travel ball parent remark shows that you respect neither HS nor rec.

You also imply that

- HS players are not proud to represent their school

- HS players are not prepared

- HS players are not competing hard

I wrote none of those things; you did.

You might want to google "self-awareness" and brush up on "dissonance". Because only someone who is dimly aware of themselves, and has a very low opinion of HS ball and rec ball would write what you wrote.

Don’t twist my words. Don’t attempt to speak for me.

Please let me be more succinct. I’ve been on this board since 2007. Your previous post is right up there at or near the top of the most arrogant, offensive, condescending posts ever made on this board.

Is there a way to get out of a thread once u are in it??!?

This one is sucking the IQ right out of me!

@RJM posted:

Don’t twist my words. Don’t attempt to speak for me.

Please let me be more succinct. I’ve been on this board since 2007. Your previous post is right up there at or near the top of the most arrogant, offensive, condescending posts ever made on this board.

You are attempting to project your flaws onto me.

But you can't hide from what you wrote.

And you know that.

So instead of engaging in self-reflection you lash out, again.

I'll reiterate:

--> Only someone who has an extremely low opinion of rec ball and HS ball would think that "HS is an extension of rec" is "the most arrogant, offensive, condescending posts ever made on this board".

You have hubris where you should have self-reflection.

@SpeedDemon posted:

You are attempting to project your flaws onto me.

But you can't hide from what you wrote.

And you know that.

So instead of engaging in self-reflection you lash out, again.

I'll reiterate:

--> Only someone who has an extremely low opinion of rec ball and HS ball would think that "HS is an extension of rec" is "the most arrogant, offensive, condescending posts ever made on this board".

You have hubris where you should have self-reflection.

The problem is your ego won’t allow you to admit you initial statement trashing high school baseball by calling it “rec ball” was obnoxious, offensive and condescending to all those who have played and coached high school baseball. It was such an arrogant travel ball parent statement.

A person with any class would back off their insult rather than doubling and tripling down.

Do you all remember the Southern California travel team group that tried to replace HS baseball with a Spring travel league. What happen? Always follow the money.
Bob

There are some academies in FL replacing regular HS baseball. Most are like a cheap knock off of IMG. Some advertise to the kids that don’t make the HS teams.

@RJM posted:

The problem is your ego won’t allow you to admit you initial statement trashing high school baseball by calling it “rec ball” was obnoxious, offensive and condescending to all those who have played and coached high school baseball. It was such an arrogant travel ball parent statement.

A person with any class would back off their insult rather than doubling and tripling down.

Once again....

Only someone who has a low opinion of rec ball and high school ball would take "HS is an extension of rec" as an insult.

It was not meant that way, but YOU took it that way.

Because YOU have a problem with equating high school baseball with recreational baseball.

Because YOU coach high school baseball, and played high school baseball, and consider rec beneath you.

Your responses say a lot more about you than about me.

@TerribleBPthrower posted:

There are some academies in FL replacing regular HS baseball. Most are like a cheap knock off of IMG. Some advertise to the kids that don’t make the HS teams.

Where I live in CA, it is harder to make a HS team than pay to be on a travel club. Much harder.

And yes, there are clubs that accept players who got cut from HS so they can play in the spring. I'm a fan of that.

@Consultant posted:

Do you all remember the Southern California travel team group that tried to replace HS baseball with a Spring travel league. What happen? Always follow the money.
Bob

What happened?

Never met the promoters. Are you from the Valley?

ABCL, discussed in this topic from 2012?

https://community.hsbaseballwe...486#2982475077664486

A good thread altogether.  A related one, on "Individual or team?", here:

https://community.hsbaseballwe...421#2982475077669421

@anotherparent posted:

ABCL, discussed in this topic from 2012?

https://community.hsbaseballwe...486#2982475077664486

A good thread altogether.  A related one, on "Individual or team?", here:

https://community.hsbaseballwe...421#2982475077669421

Thanks.