Help with HS Freshman Swing

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powertoallfields? Now your saying that you want to chicken wing the high pitch?

Maybe anything above the hands? But why would you swing at that pitch, unless it the hanger that just stays there.

Mike Epstein calls it weather vaneing. You just keep the front elbow at ball heighth throughout the swing and finish. 2 strikes would be the time to swing at this pitch if it's a borderline strike. Actually, a very easy pitch to go oppo for a line drive over the infielders. Wade Boggs was very good at this skill.

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The idea is to strike between the thin seams at a ever so slight downward angle go thru the baseball

OldSchool- so if I gave you a fungo bat at home plate and said drive this ball to the gap or drop a bomb, you would throw the ball up and swing down on it?

Better yet, if the ball was sitting on a tee and I asked you to hit a gap shot or drop a bomb, you would swing down on it?

Why not hit it on a slight upslope and try and it the baseball (sphere) in the middle? If you miss hit it (which you will) from dead center, it will have either backspin or topspin... but why not try and transfer ALL momentum into baseball instead of trying to clip the ball to give it more spin?

Notice the barrell slightly up.......The ability for Pujols to get the back shoulder thru the ball from this point. To keep palm up/palm down, until arms fully extend. It is said that the great hitters have the ability to keep the barrell on the ball from contact thru extension.

Although, his weight has already transfered to the outside of his front foot a little early for what you like to see in young hitters. He's still able to stay behind the ball and, hit against a firm front side, after all he is one of the greatest hitters to ever play the game.

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OldSchool- so if I gave you a fungo bat at home plate and said drive this ball to the gap or drop a bomb, you would throw the ball up and swing down on it?

Better yet, if the ball was sitting on a tee and I asked you to hit a gap shot or drop a bomb, you would swing down on it?

Why not hit it on a slight upslope and try and it the baseball (sphere) in the middle? If you miss hit it (which you will) from dead center, it will have either backspin or topspin... but why not try and transfer ALL momentum into baseball instead of trying to clip the ball to give it more spin?

Fungo or tee, I try to hit the ball as Tommy showed us in the drill. I'm not trying to clip it, I'm basically try to keep the barrell up until after contact, the barrell will stay on line, and be under the ball at extension as the back shoulder comes thru the ball. Now if I was trying to jack a home run in either situation, I'm not real big. I would try to hit the bottom of the ball from a tee or tossing the ball up. Now remember we were talking fastballs up. The pitchers velocity will help you elevate the ball, along with proper swing mechanics.

Teaching young hitters to hit the bottom of the ball at contact point is not condusive to creating a good swing on most pitches. Now will some of them develop it as they get older and mature, without a doubt, and many will be successful. It just not what we teach

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Originally posted by Old School79:
Notice the barrell slightly up.......The ability for Pujols to get the back shoulder thru the ball from this point. To keep palm up/palm down, until arms fully extend. It is said that the great hitters have the ability to keep the barrell on the ball from contact thru extension.

Old School, I'm trying to stay with you here. You see the barrel "slightly up" and do you see full arm extension?

BTW, many are familiar with this pic. It is a home run to straight away left center field.

Edited to add:

I've looked all around and I can't seem to find a gramelin of a shark. However, I have a sense of fresh chum in the water. In the old days...

I agree again. The barrel above the ball or hands is going to create ground balls or line drives depending on the pitch if struck solid.

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Old School, I'm trying to stay with you here. You see the barrel "slightly up" and do you see full arm extension?

Full arm extension, not yet. However, you do see very good connection with his back elbow and his hip at contact, seeing this would lead me to believe that the swing will finish with full extension.


powertoallfields

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I agree again. The barrel above the ball or hands is going to create ground balls or line drives depending on the pitch if struck solid.

Is this not what you want to teach hitters to do?
Hard ground balls and line drives. As they get older the line drives seem to have a better chance of getting into the gaps and over the fence

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Originally posted by Old School79:

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Old School, I'm trying to stay with you here. You see the barrel "slightly up" and do you see full arm extension?

Full arm extension, not yet. However, you do see very good connection with his back elbow and his hip at contact, seeing this would lead me to believe that the swing will finish with full extension.


powertoallfields

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I agree again. The barrel above the ball or hands is going to create ground balls or line drives depending on the pitch if struck solid.

Is this not what you want to teach hitters to do?
Hard ground balls and line drives. As they get older the line drives seem to have a better chance of getting into the gaps and over the fence

No, I don't teach kids to hit ground balls. I teach to swing on the plane of the pitch and hopefully to hit with power to all fields. If later in their careers they aren't big enough or strong enough to hit the ball out of the park, then they can learn to level off the swing and keep their hands high. The later is a much easier change, IMO.

I would never teach a kid to swing down, because if he had good eye/hand coordination and hit the ball solid every time (right in the middle of ball) he would hit ground ball, after ground ball, after ground ball..... as kids get older defenders get better... stronger arms, more accurate throws, better lateral movement... which means more outs...

you don't have to be a "HR King" to swing in a rotational fashion... or to match planes... its about matching planes and hitting line drives... hitting the ball with consistent hard contact...

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It is said that the great hitters have the ability to keep the barrell on the ball from contact thru extension.

what the heck??? we are not playing lacrosse.. the ball is probably in contact with the bat for about 1/30 of a second...

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what the heck??? we are not playing lacrosse.. the ball is probably in contact with the bat for about 1/30 of a second...

About the same amount of time it takes a great hitter to go from contact point to full extension.

Edited; mistake in posting clip.

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Originally posted by Diablo con Huevos:

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It is said that the great hitters have the ability to keep the barrell on the ball from contact thru extension.

what the heck??? we are not playing lacrosse.. the ball is probably in contact with the bat for about 1/30 of a second...

There is no arguement in my mind, that the bat can impart spin on the ball and that the bat being swung in a certain way can enhance the odds of creating that spin. The problem I have with the concept is that it would be more consistent than trying to match the plane and hitting the ball solidly. It is also inconceiveable to think that it could be even remotely successful in hitting a pitch that was moving downward.

QUOTE] There is no arguement in my mind, that the bat can impart spin on the ball and that the bat being swung in a certain way can enhance the odds of creating that spin. The problem I have with the concept is that it would be more consistent than trying to match the plane and hitting the ball solidly. It is also inconceiveable to think that it could be even remotely successful in hitting a pitch that was moving downward[ [/QUOTE]

powertoallfields, I disagree. Just last night, during hitting lessons. One of my 12 year olds was struggling with the concept. Big, burly kid. He had been previously taught to hit the bottom of the ball. Long loopey swing. This is the second week that he had come in for instruction.

Last week he struggled quit abit, when he had finished his session,,,he did not have a smile on his face. This week there were two of my 15 year olds there. These guys have been drilled in the concept for 2 years. In other words: They have a pretty good idea......The big 12 yr old, felt like he did not have any power with the change in hand path. My older boys told him to stick with it, the feel of power will come, as you learn the muscle memory of the hand path. These statement alone did as much good as any drill that could have been implemented at the time.

Why is this? Mental feedback is my only explanation.
He had the benefit of watching the two older boys work. Line drive after line drive, yes there was the occasional hard ground ball, but what he saw was consistancy in both of their swings. That he could not come close to matching. He hunkered down and started doing the contact shoth extension drill correctly. In the matteer of the last 30 minutes of the workout, he learned to keep the barrell up, (or on plane, if you prefer). The back hip was "driving down instead of up" with his newfound swing, and most importantly the ball was jumping off his bat to all fields.

Afterwards, with the biggest smile that a 12 year old could muster. He said, Thanks, coach. When asking what he learned, He told me that he could hit the ball all over the field with power, when he focused on keeping the barrell above the ball until contact.

As explained in an earlier post concerning the backspin concept...Tommy Hernandez showed me the technique back in the mid 90's. His Dallas Tigers program was rated just a couple of weeks ago as............One of the top five college development programs in the country (CDP). I think we would both agree that Tommy has a pretty good idea on how to teach hitters...?

Old School79, are you familiar with Dr. Adair's stuff as well as the research on backspin and the criteria for effective backspin? Also, are you familiar with the concept that eyes can't track a ball until contact? I believe the word most use is that the brain "extrapolates" the flight of the ball for the last few feet. I know that Bluedog has some interesting information on this subject. I'm not familiar with Mr. Hernandez but I'm certain he's a great coach. I've read the website prior to this response.

Point being we all have beliefs we've obtained. Few posting here are the arm chair type. Many posters here, including myself have coached more than a handful of players that have played professionally and a few that have made it to the bigs.

Ok, so follow along with me, I am familiar with Mr. Adair, the study of Mr. Sawicki and Mr. Hubbarda and a few practical experiences. For example, I know that to create optimum backspin on a ball, one has to undercut the ball by EXACTLY 2.65 cm on an upward angle of 0.1594 rad. What the heck that means is ever so slightly below center. ;-) I know Mr. Adair discussed:



I know that it is impossible for the eye to track the ball during the entire flight of the ball. Many, if not most also state that it is impossible to actually see the ball at contact. I think some posters once cited a study to that effect along with the famous picture of Bonds mashing a baseball while his eyes were elsewhere. So, in the milliseconds of reaction time once a hitter has committed to the swing (25 milliseconds) you're stating that you are training players as young as 12 to be able to hit that 2.65 cm on an upward angle of 0.1594 rad. Ted Williams said, "I think without question the hardest single thing to do in sport is to hit a baseball." So, I find that teaching any other concept but hitting the ball square results in negative outcomes for hitters. I'd love to see one of your hitting lessons.

Old School, you might wanna go to a new school....

CoachB25, Never at any time was not hitting the ball square discussed, when you execute the tee drill as discussed, and you take the barrel thru the center of the ball from contact thru extension, HOW IS THAT NOT SQUARE?

The bat upward angle on the illustration is created by the pitch being DOWN. Please remember this conversation started out on a fastball up in the zone, not a pitch that you have to drop the barrel on as in the illustration.

Your more than welcome to come to one of our sessions. It might help you get the concept. One of my coaches was a JUCO All American and played at NW LA for current Alabama head coach Jim Wells. Before being drafted, and coaching at D1 UTA for 8 years. He said he'd be more than happy to demonstrate how easy it is to backspin a ball with the barrel up for you.

I not sure what the: Englishbey or Richard methoid is in the other thread, where YHF is hammering you. Nor do I care.

I've seen Englishbey website. Looks like his barrel is up at contact, along with his top hand, if it was attached to the bat.
I teach the same mechanics that Dave Hudgins teaches. He's the hitting coach of the Indians....What current MLB team is Englishbey hitting instructor at, or has ever been?



Blue,
Out of all the posts of yours that I have read. I don't remember anything ever been said that I would choose to remember, enough said.

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Blue,
Out of all the posts of yours that I have read. I don't remember anything ever been said that I would choose to remember, enough said.

Thank you so much for saying that....

CoachB25, what's amazing is that me and you have differing views on what great hitters do, then, you got this guy Old School with an even different view....Ya gotta love it....

Your welcome.

Could it be that we are, All Right to a degree, every hitter is different to a certain extent. Agreed?

Why should it be so hard to comprehend that training techniques would differ, from instructor to instructor, and region to region, The end barometer is the success of the player, we currently have 26 players playing college ball, 9 at D1, , 4 others on current MLB or Minor league rosters, at least 2 or 3 more if all goes well and they stay healthy will be drafted in 09.

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Could it be that we are, All Right to a degree, every hitter is different to a certain extent. Agreed?

Nah...Somebody is wrong.....