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9 replies

Help with unruly coach - Coach out of dugout

P PeteAustinMember
I apologize in advance for the length, but I really need some help here.

I umpire in both Maryland and Texas. (I fly back and forth each week for work). In Maryland we enforce and abide by the rule of the game. The league that I am umpiring in in Texas is far more relaxed.

The rule that is a problem is, the coaches must not be on the field of play. I've heard of a case where a coach, out of the box, was hit by a ball. He suedthe umpires personally. (and everyone else also, but I'm most concerned with being personally sued) The issue was that the rule says, 'must be in box', and the umpire did not enforce the rule.

Here in Texas, they allow the coaches to walk around all around the dugout, and in foul territory. Not the first/third base coach - the dugout coaches. The league has told the coaches that they are allowed to be on the field. I don't allow it. The rule is the rule, and they have not provided me with any rule-override.

The coaches have not been thrilled with this, but have been willing to go along. Tonight's coach was far far less accomodating, raising a stink. I was base, and plate was unsupportive. After the game I called the UIC of the league and he suggested that I relax. Frankly, if the league would just send me an email telling me that the rule is over-ridden, and they ARE permitted, I'd be fine. I could just follow *that* rule.

Lets set aside the whole issue of who is right here. Frankly I don't care. And lets set aside the issue of whether I should have tossed her. Don't care.

The Question is, if, at the coach's meeting, I tell them that they must stay in the dugout, does THAT ALONE let me off the hook? One coach said that it did. "Judge, I told 'em, then they didn't follow the rules." I am not so sure. If the rule says that the catcher must be properly equipped, and I tell them that in the meeting, then I let him play without a helmet, I think I'd be liable.

I really need some help here. Cause if I can just say it in the coach's meeting and be done with it, I will just relax. If not, then I gotta back out of the league.

I love umpiring. Not enough to be sued.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.
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B baseballmom
Or, have coaches sign in for the meeting & put a check by each name that received the written rules you talk about. You have your rear covered with their sig. Then in your report to UIL & Umpires assoc, you mention those that broke UIL rules.
Last edited by baseballmom
BS Brian Shanberg100+ posts
Not sure I can help with your particular situation, but as a coach, I actually like when an ump asserts himself right at the beginning of the game and makes the 'coaches on the field' ruling very clear.

Some parks are now using heavy duty fencing that is really difficult to see through and therefore allow the coaches to be on the field. That might be the case with your field??? At any rate, if the park allows it, make them stand deeper than first base on their side of the field. It keeps them out of plays and provides alot more reaction time to errant foul balls.
rz1rz15,000+ posts
State the rules before the game and then ask

Do you understand and agree with OUR rules?
Do you understand that I will follow OUR rules?
Do you understand the ramifications of not following OUR rules?

One thing a coach hates is when he is upstaged by an ump. If rules are verbally agreed upon pre-game, the coach is taking partial ownership of those game rules. The next thing that a coach hates is when someone breaks one of his own rules. Put him on the spot to accept the responsibility for his actions. IMHO, it's all about clear, and verified communication. Not only is everyone on the same page, the ump sets a tone of who is in charge before the first pitch is thrown. If an umpire is only explaining field rules in the pre-game coaches meeting and passing by issues that are "assumed", IMO, he is not doing his job.
Last edited by rz1
wraggArmwraggArm500+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by CollegeParent:
I am no attorney, but you could ask the disagreeable coaches to sign a waiver holding you harmless before the game....

I'm not one, either, but I spend a lot of time with them at work and love trying to tell them how to do their jobs. I'm convinced I'm better.

Anyway, what if you just brought one of those little digital personal recording devices to the pregame meeting, told them you're recording, then give rz1's recommended speech (above)? Then let them know that if they get hurt violating their rules, you are not liable.

That way you have your evidence of the fact without making them do the paper work.
trojan-skippertrojan-skipper1,000+ posts
Any reasonable person knows you can get injured at a ballpark. Quit worrying about liability.. if the hitter hits a foul ball that breaks a windshield no one is at fault... it just happens. A coach or player can get injured in or out of the dugout. If you want the coach in the dugout tell him to get in the dugout.. if he doesn't throw him out of the game.
wraggArmwraggArm500+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by trojan-skipper:
Any reasonable person knows you can get injured at a ballpark. Quit worrying about liability.. if the hitter hits a foul ball that breaks a windshield no one is at fault... it just happens.

Well, there you have it, PeteAustin. TrojanMan, in writing, has indemnified you of all liability by applying the "reasonable man" argument, right out here in front of God and everybody. That is awesome.
Hey Trojan, you got anything for product liability? I could use your magic wand next...then maybe we can send you over to the bat companies. Those guys are really hanging out on risk.

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