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There are a number of threads running right now about the Stanford Camp, AZ Junior/Senior Fall Classic (and academic games), etc.

For posters who have sons who (a) were interested in high academic schools, and (b) attended Stanford or HeadFirst the summer after sophomore year (and/or the academic game at the Junior Fall Classic in October of junior year), did your son:

(1) Take the SAT or ACT as a sophomore?

(2) Rely on the PSAT (taken sophomore fall) when coaches asked about test scores?

(3) Something else? 

Thanks in advance.

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2017 took ACT in June after soph. year. Combination of athletic ability and that ACT score was too low to matter until son took the SAT during January of his junior year (after several months of tutoring). I'm not sure if that January SAT score was what made his athletic ability relevant at many high academics, or if it was just a coincidence.  I do know that SATs/ACTs of 2100/33 or higher, help EVERYONE relax. 

smokeminside posted:

2017 took ACT in June after soph. year. Combination of athletic ability and that ACT score was too low to matter until son took the SAT during January of his junior year (after several months of tutoring). I'm not sure if that January SAT score was what made his athletic ability relevant at many high academics, or if it was just a coincidence.  I do know that SATs/ACTs of 2100/33 or higher, help EVERYONE relax. 

Thanks. Your story illustrates the quandary -- most kids will do significantly better on the standardized tests later (spring of junior year? fall of senior year?) than they will sophomore year.  Particularly if they prep for the test. Similar situation, I guess, to the advice with respect to baseball skills, "don't showcase until you have something to show" . . .

And it's sort of interesting what the College Board has done with the new PSAT/NMSQT test (well, maybe it's not all that new, but they definitely didn't do it when I was in high school) -- the scores are on the same scale as the SAT, and, according to the College Board "shows you how you would have scored that day on the SAT."

So I was thinking a kid could use his PSAT/NMSQT as a proxy -- without having taken the actual SAT or ACT -- and maybe get some credit from the coaches for "projectability"!! LOL  But of course, it would be great to hear if any HSBBW folks used that approach  . . .

Last edited by 2019Dad

With the changes to SAT looming, 2017 focused on the old SAT first and took it November of Junior year, then retook it in January (final version of old test format, which he wanted because he scored 98th percentile in Writing, which was being phased out because apparently nobody cares about writing anymore). After taking a six-week prep course, he scored 200 points higher, so money well spent. 

Then he shifted his attention to ACT and took it in April so that he had both SAT and ACT scores prior to HF in June.  When we figured out that getting just a little bit higher ACT might mean more academic money at the D3's where there is no athletic money, he retook the ACT in September of his Senior and scored 2 points higher.  And sure enough the Net Price Calculators on some college sites are showing more merit money with the higher score.  So again, well worth it to retake it.

I don't think PSAT counts for much other than the chance at National Merit Scholar.  But some of the high academic coaches will start looking at kids based on the high PSAT as a Sophomore and then wait to see the results of the SAT/ACT when they are juniors.  My recommendation is if your son got a strong PSAT score, take the SAT first, and do it early in Junior year.  Leave a few months for a retest, then shift to ACT and get both done before the Summer leading into Senior year.  Several coaches at the academic schools told us they value the test scores much more than GPA.  One told us "GPA will get our attention, but SAT/ACT determines if we stay interested."

Several coaches at the academic schools told us they value the test scores much more than GPA.  One told us "GPA will get our attention, but SAT/ACT determines if we stay interested.

THIS, plus I would add, the full Junior year transcript matters, both for rigor and gpa.  Transcript through sophomore year doesn't seem to provide enough info for the highest academic schools.

Son took SAT during fall of Junior year and score was said to be good enough for target Academic Index.It used to be easy to measure SAT based on PSAT..now things have changed. Spoke to head of guidance last weekend who said new SAT scored are inflated. Students getting into HIGH academics with certain score previously are falling in lower percentiles. If my son were going through now I would probably encourage him to take ACT.

One thing to consider as plans are made: I strongly recommend AGAINST taking the ACT and SAT on back to back weekends.  It wasn't helpful in our experience.  Just to amplify my comments above:  Son took ACT "cold" in June before Jr. year.  Score: 27  Took weekly  hour long lessons with an SAT/ACT prep tutor from Sept through end of November in fall of Jr. year.  Focused primarily on ACT structure, but took SAT first weekend in December 2015. Score: about 1910, for three sections.  Then he took ACT on the very next weekend, the second weekend in December.  Score: a disappointing  28.  He was very frustrated after having spent so much time preparing and having his score go up only one point.

Decided to take the very last offering of the old SAT in late January, 2016.  Figured he didn't have anything to lose since he knew it was highly likely he'd have to take it AGAIN, and the format would change the next time.  Did NOT study at all in the intervening month.  Raised his total SAT to 2140.  Retired from SAT/ACT testing.

I'm convinced that taking the SAT and ACT on back to back weekends was a mistake for my son. He was mentally fatigued after the first test.   One month later, away from the test taking stuff. was a great decision for him. 

I don't want anyone to disagree with me, because I want to be right about something, anything, any one thing in this cray cray process.

Last edited by smokeminside

My son is a 2018 and has been getting recruited by the high academic schools. We were told by coaches that while his grades were very good they needed to see the standardized test scores. We were also told to take them ASAP (this was in September of this year) so that if the first time the scores were not good he could take the test again. 2018 took the test in October and did well. The response from the schools has been noticeable --  there is an increased intensity now that they are certain he can make it thru admissions.

b i g m a c posted:

I'd take the tests early enough such that you have time to study some more and potentially take them again and improve.

Absolutely. The only caveat is that if a kid is on a slow track in math, he may struggle with the ACT, in particular, as it tends to have more Trig and Algebra 2 questions than  the SAT or PSAT.   (according to my kids' prep tutor )  So taking the test in Sophomore year may not be helpful except as practice.

d-mac posted:

My son just took the ACT as a Freshman this past weekend with no prep.  Is there a ballpark average of how much an ACT score improves from Freshman to Junior year? 

D-Mac,

No idea on data other than my own.  First time he took ACT was spring of sophomore year.  DID NOT STUDY AT ALL.  Took it cold.

Score was not horrible (north of 25), but not what he needed for high academic consideration.  He had two HA- HCs scold him for a less than glowing score.  One even said, "I don't care if you took it cold.......you're a smart kid, I can tell it by looking at you.  I know you can do better."  Priceless!!

Son studied an online ACT program 2nd half of summer.  Took Sept. 10 ACT  earlier this fall.  Added 5-pts and was committed to HA 30-days later.  

d-mac posted:

My son just took the ACT as a Freshman this past weekend with no prep.  Is there a ballpark average of how much an ACT score improves from Freshman to Junior year? 

d-mac, I found this: http://blog.prepscholar.com/wh...rade-act-/-sat-score

It says about 200 points for the SAT and about 5 points for the ACT is an average increase between 9th and 11th grade, so it's pretty significant.

 

 

2019Dad posted:
d-mac posted:

My son just took the ACT as a Freshman this past weekend with no prep.  Is there a ballpark average of how much an ACT score improves from Freshman to Junior year? 

d-mac, I found this: http://blog.prepscholar.com/wh...rade-act-/-sat-score

It says about 200 points for the SAT and about 5 points for the ACT is an average increase between 9th and 11th grade, so it's pretty significant.

 

 

Interesting.  5 points could mean very different things to different students.

16  improves to 21.  From possible JC student to possible State U student.

26 improves to 31.  From possible U of State student to possible U of State or good private scholly student.

31 improves to 36. Full ride wherever you wanna go, baby!

Goosegg posted:

Schools say they will either take the highest single score or some even superscore by taking the best section scores and adding.

S was told by Ivy coaches before Junior year, which scores would clear the bar. (30 ACT min.)

Goose, that's a good rule of thumb. Someone -- I don't remember who -- on this Board said that for a RHP, if your top velocity and ACT added up to 120, you were in good shape at an Ivy (e.g., 30 ACT and 90 mph).

The Ivys use something called the Academic Index (AI), which weights standardized test scores and GPA and comes up with a number. The lower the AI, the better you need to be at baseball. Good analysis of it at Tier 1: www.tier1athletics.org/2012/11...ademic-index-number/

And they have a good calculator: www.tier1athletics.org/2012/10...dex-calculator-2016/

Just by way of example, a kid with an ACT of 30, an unweighted GPA of 3.6, and 680 apiece on two SAT subject tests would have an AI of 210, and would be in good shape.

One thing I didn't see in the Tier 1 materials is that each coach needs to deliver a team AI, in addition to the minimum threshold for each individual athlete. What this means is that if a coach wants a stud player with, say, a 180 AI, the coach will likely need to balance that with a recruit with a really, really high AI. Net, net, the higher your AI, the better off you are.

So, back to the original question.....High Academic -- SAT/ACT and Timing?

My two cents and experience....the higher the baseball level the recruit is being considered for high academic schools, the sooner he needs to have his academic house in order.  Some D1 recruits are being genuinely considered for Stanford, Ivys, others and it is a great idea to have those ACT/SAT ready to compare offers that can be coming in from other power conference D1s.  In addition, the more traditional power D1 academic schools are recruiting earlier and earlier.  I'd suggest late soph year or early junior year IF the recruit is ready.  We are talking about a small number of recruits nationally.   

Other recruits that are not getting that genuine level of D1 power conference interest can wait until early junior year or whenever they are ready to take the SAT for high academic schools.  These recruits will be in communication with some D1 mid-majors, Ivys, Patriot and D3.

JMO and experience.

Last edited by fenwaysouth

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