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Ok here we go.... son did very well this past summer, played for a great travel team, went to big events and had fun. He’s a 2019 and finally hit the elusive 90mph mark and above. Many local jucos startec showing interest through the travel team and began contacting him, about 7 that wanted him to visit. So we began the visits, one coach really liked him and he asked about his grades and said he wanted to talk to his HS coach. No big deal we thought....Juco coach calls him back a few day later and says that after meeting my son and because of how well he knew the travel coach he was going to offer him a full ride, but he said your HS coach said really bad things abou you,, not a leader, can’t be counted on, lazy. We were shocked and I was PISSED, the coach NEVER spoke to my son about any of this negative stuff, he was the #2 pitcher his junior year and did well. He has 3.3 gpa and scored a 26 ACT. Talked to the coach who was very smug and said that was his opinion, I couldn’t believe it, never interacted with him, did a lot of extra work on fund raising and snack bar duty, and this guy almost cost us $11000 scholarship. Next step is district athletic director, we now only use the assistant baseball coach as reference and travel coach. What do you guys think? The few people I’ve told have never heard of this from a coach before unless the kid was a hug disciplinary problem. 

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If a college coach told me he’s contacting my high school I would tell the high school coach. I could tell by the conversation what to expect and plan on any potential damage control. 

I’m sure you’ve heard in this site to control what you can. While you can’t control exactly what the high school coach says you can be better prepared to control the aftermath. 

Had your son addressed his coach, told him this college is where he wants to play and please emphasize the positives the interaction between coaches might have gone differently. 

Part of Sales 101 is position your key influencers who have the ear of the decision maker.

Last edited by RJM

After my sons graduation, my wife and I had to swallow and leave behind a good deal of disgust with the High School Head Coach.

 

If it’s the fact that the guy almost cost your son a scholarship and your son is going to take that school up on their offer, as the song goes, “Let it Go.”  Bigger and brighter things are on the horizon and all the High School accolades and drama don’t mean squat once he’s graduated.

I'm not often on a the side of parents in argument with HS coaches (most of the time the parents are wrong - your kid is probably not sitting because the other parents are more influential) but in this case i hate what the coach did. 

A coach should stand in for his kids and help them play at the next level, i mean he has zero disadvantage if a player plays college ball.

I mean maybe there even is some truth to his assessment (i don't know) but even then i would expect him to sugarcoat it a little, he isn't owing the college anything.

If the coach had a problem with the kid then it should have been discussed with the kid previously. This was not the correct timing to decide and announce he had issues with the kid. 

I am glad it didn’t hurt the kids scholarship. All the coach accomplished was creating a conflict with one of his top pitchers, who I am sure will not want to battle it out for his coach now. Lose/ lose situation and no upside for coach or player. 

Tell your son to continue to work and play hard for his teammates. Control the things you can control, work through the next few months and move on to bigger things. 

I would use it as a learning opportunity.  Be honest with yourselves, is there a little bit of truth behind what the coach said, even if to a lesser degree?  If your coach thought your son was a leader of the team, coach would have been in contact with him the past several weeks to run the offseason workouts, reach out to the potential players to make sure they attend coach's offseason team meeting, have been named captain, etc. 

If there is some truth to the coach's words, or he hasn't been asked to lead these activities, I would sit down with my son and say "You can have all the baseball skill in the world, but being a leader, a good person, means so much more."  Unless there's some unknown vendetta, the coach probably has some examples why he thinks that way. 

Also, why run to the AD, to complain you received a bad recommendation?  What is the outcome you're looking for?  I can tell you of countless HS teammates of my son who went to our AD to complain about playing time, coach attitude, etc.  Nothing will come of it.  Ignoring the head coach, rather than trying to repair the situation may also not be the best thing to do.

If you address the situation properly, both with your son and the coach, you may find this is the best thing that happened to your son.

99% of the time I'm on the side of the coach but this is probably that 1% because there is no reason for this to happen.  A high school coach has to be honest with the college coach or he loses credibility - even if it's negative.  But the college coach has done his homework and talked to several people about your son.  He has a picture of who he is to be willing to take a chance on and this one negative report won't hold him back.  Your son may want to talk with the high school coach to clear the air and find out why he said what he said.

coach2709 posted:

99% of the time I'm on the side of the coach but this is probably that 1% because there is no reason for this to happen.  A high school coach has to be honest with the college coach or he loses credibility - even if it's negative.  But the college coach has done his homework and talked to several people about your son.  He has a picture of who he is to be willing to take a chance on and this one negative report won't hold him back.  Your son may want to talk with the high school coach to clear the air and find out why he said what he said.

This exactly.  Same thing with summer coaches.  They have to be thinking about the future kids.  If they "lie/fib" about a kids skills/attitude, then the next time that college coach is going to look elsewhere.  

Once you find a good car salesman and real estate agent, they are good to keep.

Show me one person in this world who doesn’t have an axe to grind with someone. Regardless of how nice or cool a person may think they are, there is at least one person they come into contact with on a daily basis who cannot stand them. It’s just life. It may be jealousy, they remind them of someone else who did them wrong, etc. 

asking a person to be “politically correct” and to put their personal feelings aside at a time that they have an opportunity to exact a little revenge is asking a lot. That is human nature too. So I guess you need to fill your world with more people who like you than who don’t in order to maintain forward progress.

When my son made varsity as a freshman we heard rumors about the coach, I told my wife it could just be disgruntled parents....ignore that chatter and see for ourselves. Almost all we heard was true, he didn’t care,disengaged, just a job, but our son got to play so we put up with it. The coach was also linebacker coach on the really good football team. Sophomore year he stopped coaching football altogether....we heard it was because the baseball parents complained about him not caring much about baseball.

I think a coach should be like a doctor....first order of business DO NO HARM.

Tough issue. With thousands of HS V coaches in the US, some (a very small percentage) are bound to be ignorant and opinionated tools. Sounds like that might be the case. Happy that exchange did not hurt your son's offer. As to taking it up with the HC or the AD, I guess you have to ask what you hope to gain? Perhaps if there is a track record of this type of thing, you might be doing a good thing. Or, more likely, nothing will change except a temporary increase in stress and blood pressure. Good luck going forward.

Last edited by Batty67

I’m pretty sure the HS coach never dreamed the Juco coach would tell us what he said. When I confronted him he was surprised for a minute before he started with the smug my opinion crap. Is my kid the next Stephen Hawkins no, has he turned in work late yes, but hr never missed a practice, improved every year and carries a nice GPA and ACT. 

How many other kids has he tried to hurt? When we meet with the district AD I’m going to insist that a record be established that all coaches must document every contact with college coaches. At least it will be above board.

As I said we have a good football team and I see one boy now playing on TV that was in trouble his entire HS career, never went to class, but Iguess his coach promoted his positive skills. 

I am parent of 2018 grad who is playing baseball in college and I am also a HS coach. I have been on both sides and can relate to your frustration, based on info you have shared. However, as coach2079 stated, a HS coach has to be honest with coaches at the next level, or he will most definitely lose credibility which could kill opportunities for future players. I think, and in my experience, coaches struggle with communication more then any other coaching skill set...especially in HS where there is so little competition for good players.

I am actually struggling with a situation right now, having returned to coaching baseball following my son's graduation. We have a good returning P/INF who is a likable kid with decent grades and scores. However, he is lazy, makes questionable decisions (no show for winter workouts last night), misses class frequently, etc. Knowing how important all aspects of character are to college coaches, I thought there is no way I would recommend this player to a coach without making note of those issues.

Again, I get your frustration and do believe you have a legitimate beef with coach since he has never talked to your son about these issues. If he had done it the right way, he would have met with your son about baseball goals and discussed his concerns, giving your son an opportunity to work on and correct said issues. As others have recommended, I would move on. That coach is going to give the AD his side of story and good chance your complaints will fall on deaf ears. Sucks but I see it all the time! Best of luck to your son.

 

We played on a TT with a kid who's dad got in on the tournament basketball thing when it was just taking off. He made a very successful living at it and Drew became a gym rat and a very, very good player. Natural born leader, had a feel for the game, good work ethic, etc. About the only negative thing you could say about the kid was he knew how good he was. The only reason that kid isn't playing big time college basketball is his size. Anyway  I ran into his dad at a tournament what would have been his Jr year of HS. Asked about basketball and he said the kid wasn't playing. Stated the kid did not play much his sophomore year and sat down with the coach. Guy told him "I don't like you. You were born with a silver spoon in your mouth and you are not going to play for me". Coaches are people too, with the same flaws as the rest of us.

What I heard from a mentor important to me was that if there are 20 people asked directly about you, one will be your most ardent promoter + fight for you until their death.  One will be whole heartily against you with every fiber in their being + do anything within their power to see you fail.  It is all about the 18 in between, how you treat them, help them + see that they get their needs met.  You are never going to please some people no matter how hard you attempt to + are much better off having a positive experience with those who want to be in a relationship with you.  As others suggested, let it go + move along to the next level.  Congrats to the family on your son's success.  Keep his spirits up + moving in the proper direction!

This is really bad. My question is -  the high school coach has all of these concerns yet he pitches your son regularly for the high school squad? Sounds hypocritical on his part.

Congrats to your son and it's a great thing that the college coach is giving him the scholarship that he has earned through his grades and athletic performance. The great thing about this is that your son will be playing at the next level for a coach that believes in him!  

As far as contacting the AD or school board...I'd move along and put the focus on the fun years of watching your son play in college. Good luck and congrats to you and your family. 

coachld posted:

 

Again, I get your frustration and do believe you have a legitimate beef with coach since he has never talked to your son about these issues. If he had done it the right way, he would have met with your son about baseball goals and discussed his concerns, giving your son an opportunity to work on and correct said issues. As others have recommended, I would move on. That coach is going to give the AD his side of story and good chance your complaints will fall on deaf ears. Sucks but I see it all the time! Best of luck to your son.

 

The bolded line is the crux of the issue.  For the coach to harbor these views and never share them with the player, and then turn and share them with a college coach is just wrong.  It is immature and unprofessional.  It is like firing an employee for poor behavior or performance without ever having given that feedback in advance... it is just not done that way.  I don't think anyone would object at the HS coach his truthful opinion if he had been open about it with the player in advance.

Being a high school coach for several years, I see it both ways as a parent and a coach.  I had a player who played for me three years who had mediocre grades, missed as much school as he could and pass, was lazy at practice but the best third baseman we had, and could throw strikes.  Bad attitude, bad parental attitude but ran concession stand and top fundraisers, horrible teammate.  He started at third and batted fourth and was #3 pitcher.  But when he was talking to a juco I told him point blank, don't have them call me unless you want me to tell them good and bad.  We had numerous conversations about all of the above including parents for two years.  I told him I would be glad to say how good he could be but he did have a lot of luggage that he carried with him that was not so good.  If you were just looking for production it was there but he was horrible in every non stat area.   I was very proactive in getting kids to the next level and contacted coaches for players all the time.  But I also was obligated to be honest about them. 

Before you completely bash me, I was very helpful in working with him and his girlfriend who got pregnant his junior year and helping them with their baby.  I even let him skip some practices on Saturdays to work to help pay bills.  If he could have fixed his laziness and lack of drive he could have been a great player, but he got it honestly.

You talk about the grades and pitching ability but has the coach ever had to confront your son about his attitude or lack of hustle which he told the coach about? 

I know there are coaches who just don't like a player but if there has never been controversy until now that seems unlikely unless you just don't know about the controversy.

Out of curiosity, have any parents asked their hs coaches for a letter of recommendation that might be forwarded to potential college coaches?  The letter put the hs coach's opinion and reasoning in writing, locks them in to some degree, alerts the player/parents of any issues/concerns, gives the kid a chance to address those concerns, opens up an important talk, etc.  If the letter is positive, the hs coach's subsequent negative call, if any, with the college coach would be inconsistent, taken with a grain of salt, and more easily dismissed by the college coach.  A positive letter would, of course, give the family a bit of confidence about a call with a possible college coach.

I would be leery of any hs coach, who would be unwilling to prepare a letter of recommendation or at least give a sound basis why they would be unwilling or why it might be negative and not useful.  Plus, hs teacher prepare college letters all of the time for college applicants, which are shared with the students; so this seems to be within the purview of a reasonable ask.   

Any thoughts on this suggestion?  I'm very curious what the hs coaches out there would think about this.           

jbench posted:

Out of curiosity, have any parents asked their hs coaches for a letter of recommendation that might be forwarded to potential college coaches?  The letter put the hs coach's opinion and reasoning in writing, locks them in to some degree, alerts the player/parents of any issues/concerns, gives the kid a chance to address those concerns, opens up an important talk, etc.  If the letter is positive, the hs coach's subsequent negative call, if any, with the college coach would be inconsistent, taken with a grain of salt, and more easily dismissed by the college coach.  A positive letter would, of course, give the family a bit of confidence about a call with a possible college coach.

I would be leery of any hs coach, who would be unwilling to prepare a letter of recommendation or at least give a sound basis why they would be unwilling or why it might be negative and not useful.  Plus, hs teacher prepare college letters all of the time for college applicants, which are shared with the students; so this seems to be within the purview of a reasonable ask.   

Any thoughts on this suggestion?  I'm very curious what the hs coaches out there would think about this.           

It's not that deep. If a college coach is interested in a player they'll call the HS/travel coach to get their thoughts. 10 minute conversation. I don't think a college coach would even be willing to accept a letter of recommendation. It seems kind of corny and desperate. Either way, HS coaches typically aren't all that involved with recruitment process. 

PABaseball posted:
jbench posted:

Out of curiosity, have any parents asked their hs coaches for a letter of recommendation that might be forwarded to potential college coaches?  The letter put the hs coach's opinion and reasoning in writing, locks them in to some degree, alerts the player/parents of any issues/concerns, gives the kid a chance to address those concerns, opens up an important talk, etc.  If the letter is positive, the hs coach's subsequent negative call, if any, with the college coach would be inconsistent, taken with a grain of salt, and more easily dismissed by the college coach.  A positive letter would, of course, give the family a bit of confidence about a call with a possible college coach.

I would be leery of any hs coach, who would be unwilling to prepare a letter of recommendation or at least give a sound basis why they would be unwilling or why it might be negative and not useful.  Plus, hs teacher prepare college letters all of the time for college applicants, which are shared with the students; so this seems to be within the purview of a reasonable ask.   

Any thoughts on this suggestion?  I'm very curious what the hs coaches out there would think about this.           

It's not that deep. If a college coach is interested in a player they'll call the HS/travel coach to get their thoughts. 10 minute conversation. I don't think a college coach would even be willing to accept a letter of recommendation. It seems kind of corny and desperate. Either way, HS coaches typically aren't all that involved with recruitment process. 

In my son's situation, HS HC offered to call and/or email any coaches at schools of interest and did so on multiple occasions. He also wrote a letter of recommendation for the common app but as a teacher evaluation or optional recommender only. Not in reference to baseball. These are not viewable by the student in the common app portal. Not sure if there is a setting that the recommender can select to open this up but none of the ones for my son were available to him.

Wow, that's a tough one.  I guess my biggest issue is that it's never been brought up before.  The coach had to know that your son was looking to play college baseball and I'd think at some point he'd have told your son "hey, if a coach calls, here's what I'm going to say".  To just do what he did with your son having no knowledge of what he thought about him is brutal. 

With regard to the AD, at this point I think I'd skip it.  No reason to drag this out any further...and potentially hurt your son with regard to PT this spring.  I think I'd just let it go, give the coach a crappy "hello" every time he walks by and get out of the situation without making it any worse.   I wouldn't hesitate to tell your story to any other parents....just so they would have some idea what is possible before they let a potential college coach call the HS coach.

I guess I will say this....in my experience, at least around here, the travel coach's opinion pulls a lot more weight than the HS coach...adn it seems like in your case that's also what happened.  Typically the travel coach sees kids playing better competition than they do in HS...and also spends 4-5 days at a time with the kids...in hotels, in cars, etc.  Typically they can tell the "good" kids from the "bad" ones based on what they see over the course of a summer.

Congrats to your son!

PitchingFan posted:

Being a high school coach for several years, I see it both ways as a parent and a coach.  I had a player who played for me three years who had mediocre grades, missed as much school as he could and pass, was lazy at practice but the best third baseman we had, and could throw strikes.  Bad attitude, bad parental attitude but ran concession stand and top fundraisers, horrible teammate.  He started at third and batted fourth and was #3 pitcher.  But when he was talking to a juco I told him point blank, don't have them call me unless you want me to tell them good and bad.  We had numerous conversations about all of the above including parents for two years.  I told him I would be glad to say how good he could be but he did have a lot of luggage that he carried with him that was not so good.  If you were just looking for production it was there but he was horrible in every non stat area.   I was very proactive in getting kids to the next level and contacted coaches for players all the time.  But I also was obligated to be honest about them. 

Before you completely bash me, I was very helpful in working with him and his girlfriend who got pregnant his junior year and helping them with their baby.  I even let him skip some practices on Saturdays to work to help pay bills.  If he could have fixed his laziness and lack of drive he could have been a great player, but he got it honestly.

You talk about the grades and pitching ability but has the coach ever had to confront your son about his attitude or lack of hustle which he told the coach about? 

I know there are coaches who just don't like a player but if there has never been controversy until now that seems unlikely unless you just don't know about the controversy.

Finally!  I was beginning to think I was alone in some of these thoughts.

As a former HS coach, I, too, have had my share of good players who had attitude issues, laziness or other.  And, yes, sometimes it was my better players.  It doesn't mean I benched them.  But they had to uphold all of the team standards or they would see the bench and we would certainly be communicating.  But that communication would be between me and the player - not the parent (unless things were particularly bad).  I considered it part of my job to help them improve both their game and their "citizenship".  This is real life.  And sometimes, the bumpy road didn't end at the rainbow. 

Coaches have integrity and relationship concerns to protect with both sides - their players and the college coaches who may confide in them.  I took pride in helping players make it to the next level and in promoting them when deserved.  But I also owed it to the college coaches to give them an accurate assessment - both performance and behavior.  If I were to blow smoke at the local college coach about a kid, that would be the last chance I ever had to help other kids looking at that school and probably any other school within the region.  College coaches are a small, tight knit group.  They talk among each other, particularly regionally.

Nonamedad, I don't know nearly enough about your specific situation to know if any of this applies at all or maybe just a little or ???.  Maybe the coach is just a jerk like so many others here are suggesting and he got screwed.  But there are some things that just don't fit.  Your son is a good prospect skill-wise.  It just seems very strange to me.  Why has he not had a conversation with his HS coach previously about his recruiting efforts?  Some here say it's the coach' fault.  It falls just as much on the player (and maybe somewhat on the parent) in his recruiting efforts to make sure he is properly taking care of all his potential references.    What would the motivation of the coach be to speak poorly of your son to a recruiting college coach?  It would only benefit him to have his players advance unless there are legitimate concerns.  And, sorry, this is nitpicking, but what the heck does helping with snack bar and fundraisers have to do with it? 

As HS coach, I didn't always get called - as others have stated, it's usually travel coach that gets the call.  But it certainly happens.  And when it does, the recruiter's questions are usually fairly extensive and definitely include reference to things like attitude, effort, coachability, respect, sense of team, leadership, grades, etc.

You may be way ahead of things and have already fully explored with your son what may be behind the coach' opinion, but if not, I would certainly fully vet that out before looking outside for blame.  If there's something there, maybe this can be a huge opportunity to focus on it and make it right.  And this could help him going forward.

Last edited by cabbagedad

IMO it starts at the top, the HS coach was disengaged, did the minimum, lazy call it what you want. And the WHOLE team showed that attitude. I thought we all understood that he was just killing time. I knew interest would come through the travel team, and my son played HS because that’s what you do. Now, HS coach suddenly decides I have an obligation to give a negative report on a real good kid because I have a reputation to protect. Sad... IMO he should have the attitude of DO NO HARM to the kid. He has had zero to due with the development of the kid anyway.

Nonamedad posted:

IMO it starts at the top, the HS coach was disengaged, did the minimum, lazy call it what you want. And the WHOLE team showed that attitude. I thought we all understood that he was just killing time. I knew interest would come through the travel team, and my son played HS because that’s what you do. Now, HS coach suddenly decides I have an obligation to give a negative report on a real good kid because I have a reputation to protect. Sad... IMO he should have the attitude of DO NO HARM to the kid. He has had zero to due with the development of the kid anyway.

This paragraph is a little bit different than what you originally stated.  Now you're saying that the coach is lazy, doesn't care, etc.  Does your son have this same attitude?  If so, and it has showed up at practices (when you're not there) or in your son's discussions with other players, etc then maybe the coach told the college coach what he sees.  If that's the case, then I'm starting to lean toward the coach....though as others have said, there is always more to any story.  Your statement "he should have the attitude of DO NO HARM to the kid" is completely off base in my opinion if he is being honest with what he tells a coach.  If he says "oh Joey is a great kid" then the college coach finds out he isn't, the chances of any other kids from your HS getting to play for that college just went to ZERO!   Again, I don't know the coach....I don't know your son, but your first post basically said "we had no issues with the coach, I helped out in any way I can"...making it sound like you were at least cordial to him.  Your last paragrah went to "disengaged, did the minimum, lazy call it what you want".  Coach's are smart....I'll guarantee you that the coach knew that this is what you thought of him.  As much as I hate to say it, if the coach knew that's what you think about him, he may have used that against your son when the college guy called him.  Deserved....no, possible....absolutely!

Last edited by Buckeye 2015

Not jumping on because I don't know your kid but I do know this.  Now the college coach has at least heard it whether it is truth or a lie.  He will be watching for it when your son arrives on campus.  I would be in my son's ear and make sure that this spring, because there is a chance they come watch him or have somebody watch him, that he is a leader on the field, in the dugout, and that he hustles everywhere he goes including practice.

I know there are bad coaches but that should never play into a team's ability or especially a kid's ability or attitude.  My kid hears from me all the time because his coaches attitude played over into his during a high school season, not baseball.  The coach treated them like buddies rather than his players and they felt they could talk to him like a buddy.  I heard and saw it from the stands and had a tough talk that night that the coach's attitude should not change his.  He would respect him as an adult in authority and treat him like that.  I even happened to be near one of their practices the next few days to see if it was better in practice. 

I will say I think your son needs to have a conversation with the coach, not you because he is a senior in high school, and ask what specific areas he needs to improve or specific things he has done in the past to warrant that recommendation if it has not happened in the past.  I'm still feeling that your son knows more than you are hearing.  I've never seen a coach go to that level of giving a bad report unless there was something in the past between them.  Coaches get brownie points from kids going on to the next level.  I had a lot of talks with players that I'm sure they never shared with their parents.  I refused to talk to parents about their children unless I had talked to kid and there was a school employee present. 

What purpose would going over the coach’s head to the AD serve? Payback? AD’s typically think it’s the parents who are the problem when they run to him. Besides, the AD and the coach have a relationship. You don’t. 

Your son hasn’t signed an NLI yet. He hasn’t played his senior year yet. He got what he wants in terms of college ball. I would move on. I wouldn’t create more problems. You may not get satisfaction. Your son could have an unhappy senior season due to the coach.

Nonamedad posted:

IMO it starts at the top, the HS coach was disengaged, did the minimum, lazy call it what you want. And the WHOLE team showed that attitude. I thought we all understood that he was just killing time. I knew interest would come through the travel team, and my son played HS because that’s what you do. Now, HS coach suddenly decides I have an obligation to give a negative report on a real good kid because I have a reputation to protect. Sad... IMO he should have the attitude of DO NO HARM to the kid. He has had zero to due with the development of the kid anyway.

Well, again, just on the surface...  

"...disengaged, did the minimum, lazy call it what you want. And the WHOLE team showed that attitude. "

... with reason or not, that's not a good thing.  And I'm not just talking about the coach.

And...

"...IMO he should have the attitude of DO NO HARM to the kid. "

With regard to a coach giving feedback to an inquiring RC, that's not the way it works (I'd say regardless of how good or bad the HS coach may be).  Priority is to give a positive (where earned) endorsement and promote the player but there will almost always be an honest exchange of strengths and weaknesses.  If a coach feels there is a particular attitude concern that may show itself when the player shows up on the college campus, he will more than likely feel compelled to share that.

I can pretty much guarantee that things won't be all sunshine and roses in college ball either.  Among players, there will be those in the negative camp and the positive camp.  Your son will face plenty that will tempt him to lean toward negative.  It will be his choice.

I'll be straight up.  This is an example of someone being more direct somewhat because they can "hide behind the keyboard" (me).  If it can help somebody (after they are done cussing me out), I'm more than willing to take that hit.

Last edited by cabbagedad
RJM posted:

What purpose would going over the coach’s head to the AD serve? Payback? AD’s typically think it’s the parents who are the problem when they run to him. Besides, the AD and the coach have a relationship. You don’t. 

Your son hasn’t signed an NLI yet. He hasn’t played his senior year yet. He got what he wants in terms of college ball. I would move on. I wouldn’t create more problems. You may not get satisfaction. Your son could have an unhappy senior season due to the coach.

I want the coach held accountable period. He NEVER expected the Juco coach would tell us what he said, he assumed the Juco coach would just tell my kid sorry not interested. I want the dist AD to make all coaches  log when contacted by a college and what was said. Then they will have to justify there comments

I agree that for now you need to encourage your son to put this behind him and focus on being a good teammate and player his senior year.  He needs to be the better man, as it were.

However, if it is true that this coach's criticisms of your son are totally out of the blue and he has never had a conversation with your son about them, then AFTER the spring season is over, I would lodge a complaint with the appropriate school administrator.  Not for your son's sake, but for all the other players coming up through that program behind him.  It is not acceptable for the high school coach to complain about a player to a college coach if he has never had the decency to talk to your son about those problems directly.  A kid needs that kind of feedback and a chance to change his behavior.  The kid needs to know that if he doesn't change, that information will be relayed to any college coaches that call.

A coach has an obligation to talk honestly with a kid with a behavior/attitude problem, not just for the sake of the kid, but also for the sake of the team, which may have been enduring his bad behavior for years.  A coach who ignores these problems and keeps putting the kid in the line-up is part of the problem and the whole team suffers for it.

Nonamedad posted:
RJM posted:

What purpose would going over the coach’s head to the AD serve? Payback? AD’s typically think it’s the parents who are the problem when they run to him. Besides, the AD and the coach have a relationship. You don’t. 

Your son hasn’t signed an NLI yet. He hasn’t played his senior year yet. He got what he wants in terms of college ball. I would move on. I wouldn’t create more problems. You may not get satisfaction. Your son could have an unhappy senior season due to the coach.

I want the coach held accountable period. He NEVER expected the Juco coach would tell us what he said, he assumed the Juco coach would just tell my kid sorry not interested. I want the dist AD to make all coaches  log when contacted by a college and what was said. Then they will have to justify there comments

Don't get me wrong but this sounds like you are a guy looking for trouble. I don't  like what the coach did but he doesn't owe you a testimony. You have nothing to win here and you only hurt your kid if you pick a fight now.

Have you been confrontational before? Maybe that even was the issue the coach had?

I would definitely not complain to the AD about this Coach.  He has every right to his opinion when asked.  You have every right to have your child not play for him.   When I choose to have my kid take part in playing for a team, it is 100% the Coach's right to play him, bench him, yell at him, teach him, and give whatever negative  or positive feedback about him when asked.

The only time I would step in is to communicate about injury concerns. 

Nonamedad posted:
RJM posted:

What purpose would going over the coach’s head to the AD serve? Payback? AD’s typically think it’s the parents who are the problem when they run to him. Besides, the AD and the coach have a relationship. You don’t. 

Your son hasn’t signed an NLI yet. He hasn’t played his senior year yet. He got what he wants in terms of college ball. I would move on. I wouldn’t create more problems. You may not get satisfaction. Your son could have an unhappy senior season due to the coach.

I want the coach held accountable period. He NEVER expected the Juco coach would tell us what he said, he assumed the Juco coach would just tell my kid sorry not interested. I want the dist AD to make all coaches  log when contacted by a college and what was said. Then they will have to justify there comments

You already know what was said.  If you truly believe that what he said was so out of line that it warrants contact with the AD, then fine, go ahead.   But your "wanting the AD to make all coaches log contacts" is a bit far fetched....and it's going to make you known throughout the school system as "that parent".   Your problem is with the baseball coach.  Why do you feel like you need to drag the girls' swimming coach into your argument.  If you feel the need to talk to the AD it should be something along the lines of "we'd like to know why the coach told the JUCO coach what he did".  If the AD can't get an answer, then that's his problem...and you know the coach was the problem.  If he stands by what he said, then maybe there are issues that you don't know about....on one or both sides of the argument.

3and2Fastball posted:

I would definitely not complain to the AD about this Coach.  He has every right to his opinion when asked.  You have every right to have your child not play for him.   When I choose to have my kid take part in playing for a team, it is 100% the Coach's right to play him, bench him, yell at him, teach him, and give whatever negative  or positive feedback about him when asked.

The only time I would step in is to communicate about injury concerns. 

This is HS we have no choice about who the coach is....,I think he understands that better than anyone 

Nonamedad posted:
3and2Fastball posted:

I would definitely not complain to the AD about this Coach.  He has every right to his opinion when asked.  You have every right to have your child not play for him.   When I choose to have my kid take part in playing for a team, it is 100% the Coach's right to play him, bench him, yell at him, teach him, and give whatever negative  or positive feedback about him when asked.

The only time I would step in is to communicate about injury concerns. 

This is HS we have no choice about who the coach is....,I think he understands that better than anyone 

More and more these days, Kids are choosing to not play high school Baseball and only play summer ball, or (in some parts of the country) play in a Spring Travel League.  Nobody forced you to have your kid play for his high school team.  It was a choice.

If a Coach said my kid was "not a leader, couldn't be counted on & was lazy" I'd tell my Kid to work harder and be a better leader.  Work so hard that nobody would say anything negative about him.  If my son insisted that he was never lazy in practice & actually was a fantastic leader, I'd say "hey, let this be a lesson for you, life ain't fair."

I want my son to grow up to be tough, & resilient, and prepared to outwork everyone.   I don't want my son thinking that when life ain't fair well then Mommy & Daddy are gonna complain to the Athletic Director, or his future supervisor's boss etc etc.... 

3and2, while I see your point, and would probably tell my son something along the lines of what you propose because I also want him to be resilient and motivated instead of resentful or petulant.  What I say to my son, and what I way to the athletic director (or whoever) would be different things. 

I'm not a big proponent of the "Life isn't fair" excuse for not doing anything about something that isn't fair.  If we all just shrug our shoulders and say nothing, it never gets any fairer.  

I wouldn't be complaining as "Mommy and Daddy" for my son, but for all the other sons who will have to play for that coach.

Regardless of what we say, he wants his pound of flesh. It won’t end as he hopes, and maybe we just need to let it play out and see how things progress in 6 mo the with an update, ok no name?

When you are looking for a job and they call an old employer, there are certain things you can’t say about someone legally. This is not the same, and if he wanted to torpedo your kid he is within his scope to do so. They called him, remember? He didn’t reach out to them. 

I have a feeling the fruit didn’t fall far from the tree here, and dad doesn’t have all the facts and is flying off the handle. This is a hot mess.

hand me the popcorn, this is better than watching the Bachelor

3and2Fastball posted:

If a Coach said my kid was "not a leader, couldn't be counted on & was lazy" I'd tell my Kid to work harder and be a better leader.  Work so hard that nobody would say anything negative about him.  If my son insisted that he was never lazy in practice & actually was a fantastic leader, I'd say "hey, let this be a lesson for you, life ain't fair."

I want my son to grow up to be tough, & resilient, and prepared to outwork everyone.   I don't want my son thinking that when life ain't fair well then Mommy & Daddy are gonna complain to the Athletic Director, or his future supervisor's boss etc etc.... 

Been over this with my son at great length. Work harder, life’s not fair. But it just irks me this guy is out there with malice potentially hurting other kids

2022OFDad posted:

Regardless of what we say, he wants his pound of flesh. It won’t end as he hopes, and maybe we just need to let it play out and see how things progress in 6 mo the with an update, ok no name?

When you are looking for a job and they call an old employer, there are certain things you can’t say about someone legally. This is not the same, and if he wanted to torpedo your kid he is within his scope to do so. They called him, remember? He didn’t reach out to them. 

I have a feeling the fruit didn’t fall far from the tree here, and dad doesn’t have all the facts and is flying off the handle. This is a hot mess.

hand me the popcorn, this is better than watching the Bachelor

Ok think what you will, but I compare this coach to a dangerous situation..,, if you knew the ice was thin wouldn’t you want others to know. 

Let the HS season play out and see how the coach treats your son before contacting AD. Let your son have the opportunity to take the high road and try to resolve it on his own terms. You still can have that conversation with AD after the season to protect the others. In fact I believe it will be received better then as it shows you were not reactionary about it. This does not have an expiration date.

Let’s be honest, it’s not about the others because you had a good idea what this clown was like before you started playing for him I believe. It’s revenge, and it WILL backfire. You are getting a lot of experienced people telling you to take the high road....you would be well served to listen. Only bad things will come from a confrontation.

WestCoastPapa posted:

This is really bad. My question is -  the high school coach has all of these concerns yet he pitches your son regularly for the high school squad? Sounds hypocritical on his part.

It is hypocritical but happens all the time, at every level. Definitely occurs more often at the youth-HS levels because of the lack of competition. In talking with my son during fall, I asked if he could help me understand why he and so many other HS athletes have to be pressed to put in the time. Simple answer was lack of competition. As adults, we know how important a solid work ethic is because we are constantly competing, whether it's for a job, promotion, pay raise, etc. 

Coaches, unless at a perennial losing program, are fighting to win and keep their jobs. You cannot afford to bench players who are committed to program, have good grades/test scores, etc., because they are not good leaders and choose to cut corners. Coaches who argue this, tend to have a lot of depth, and can afford to sit a #2 pitcher because the next guy up is almost as good. In our program, there is a pretty drastic drop off after the first 2-3 guys.

Last edited by coachld

anecdotal story...

The last two years, we had a P who was back and forth between our #1 and #2 (for a league championship team in a competitive California HS league).  He was that guy.  He wasn't a bad kid but drank way too much koolaid from Mom and Dad over the years that he was better than what he actually was.  He was spoiled and not mentally strong.  He had very inconsistent work ethic.  It would be great for two weeks and then he would revert.  He would make excuses all day when he wanted to get out of something.  He had times when he would pout, he was oblivious to the fact that his actions often had negative impact on the team and his teammates.  He was a constant project from a citizenship standpoint.  He usually managed to do just enough to keep from getting benched but there were times when he was left out of the rotation or knocked down a peg.  Just when we thought we were getting through to him and setting him on the right track, he would revert.  We have been successful with getting many other kids like this on the right track.  That is part of why we don't give up on a kid like this.  It isn't hypocritical.  It was right to stick by him and make every effort.  There was much more to the equation, as there always is.  He happened to be an effective P on a team with a staff that was getting hit by the injury bug.  And, like I said, he always did just enough to stay in consideration to play. 

Also, he knew how to turn on the "model citizen" button in front of his parents.  During his junior year, the dad decided to call me out on why his kid wasn't a 2-way.  We had a long talk.  It became painfully obvious that he had no idea of SO much that was going on with his son.  Son was a model citizen when the parents were looking. 

This same kid played soccer also.  His sophomore and junior year soccer coach went thru exactly what we went thru with him.  The kid quit soccer, blaming the coach.  His senior year, there was a new soccer coach so he decided to go out again.  Same thing happened.  To listen to the parents, you would be convinced that these coaches totally screwed their kid.   I know the coaches... couldn't be more upstanding and fair.

We were able to guide him enough that he had a successful HS career on the field.  Then, recruitment time came.  The local JC coach had seen enough of his character traits that he wasn't interested.  A JC down the road only saw the numbers and the physical tools.  He recruited him without calling us.  I knew what would happen and it did.  After impressing on the mound, the kid quit a month into Fall.  Later, I was scouting some kids for a 4-yr college down at that JC.  The coach asked me what the heck was up with that kid.  "You should have called me".

Sometimes good players are the problem kids.  Sometimes the problems aren't so bad that they don't play but they are still problem kids to the extent that a HS coach would most certainly feel compelled to be up front with any inquiring RC's.  Sometimes the parents don't know what they are sure they know about their kid.

Last edited by cabbagedad
57special posted:

 I'm  most surprised that the JUCO coach outed the HS coach. Unprofessional as hell. Good luck getting an honest appraisal from him, and anyone that he talks to, in the future.

 

 

Two very good points, 57.  I could see the JC coach loving the 90 and thinking that if he told the kid he is concerned because of what the HS coach said, the kid would be more likely to show up and prove not to be that problem kid.  I've done that with kids being considered for the move from JV to V.  "You're talented but I'm told you aren't always a team guy.  Convince me I should give you a shot and that I won't have that issue".

As an athletic director myself I want to know about this because if this is a recurring trend then it doesn't look well on my school's baseball and athletic program overall.  Now sometimes this is a one off thing and it is what it is but how can we improve as an athletic program if we don't look to address problems / issues as they come up.  That being said going to the AD should not be the first step.

My advice is have your son go to the HC and ask him why he said what he said.  There needs to be a lot of clarification going on here between these two because they are not on the same page.  The coach may be a worthless jerk and that needs to be brought to the AD attention. But, and I'm not trying to be a jerk, your son might be the problem and you or he may not realize it.  That doesn't need to be brought up to the AD.  This isn't an easy situation and it needs to be handled carefully but it needs to be taken care of.  You may want to wait until after the season so the HC can't hold it against your son if that's a possibility.

But all issues and lines of communication need to start with the HC first before being brought to the AD and then principal.  Our policy is first step is HC the next day.  We do not allow parents to bring up issues after games or practice.  Set up an appointment and we will meet at school because cooler heads tend to prevail with this protocol.  If you are not satisfied with that meeting then you can schedule an appointment with the AD but I will never discuss playing time nor position.

coach2709 posted:

As an athletic director myself I want to know about this because if this is a recurring trend then it doesn't look well on my school's baseball and athletic program overall.  Now sometimes this is a one off thing and it is what it is but how can we improve as an athletic program if we don't look to address problems / issues as they come up.  That being said going to the AD should not be the first step.

My advice is have your son go to the HC and ask him why he said what he said.  There needs to be a lot of clarification going on here between these two because they are not on the same page.  The coach may be a worthless jerk and that needs to be brought to the AD attention. But, and I'm not trying to be a jerk, your son might be the problem and you or he may not realize it.  That doesn't need to be brought up to the AD.  This isn't an easy situation and it needs to be handled carefully but it needs to be taken care of.  You may want to wait until after the season so the HC can't hold it against your son if that's a possibility.

But all issues and lines of communication need to start with the HC first before being brought to the AD and then principal.  Our policy is first step is HC the next day.  We do not allow parents to bring up issues after games or practice.  Set up an appointment and we will meet at school because cooler heads tend to prevail with this protocol.  If you are not satisfied with that meeting then you can schedule an appointment with the AD but I will never discuss playing time nor position.

Thx for replying, what is your opinion of getting a log for coaches to complete when contacted by RCs to keep all conversations above board and transparent?

Nonamedad posted:
RJM posted:

What purpose would going over the coach’s head to the AD serve? Payback? AD’s typically think it’s the parents who are the problem when they run to him. Besides, the AD and the coach have a relationship. You don’t. 

Your son hasn’t signed an NLI yet. He hasn’t played his senior year yet. He got what he wants in terms of college ball. I would move on. I wouldn’t create more problems. You may not get satisfaction. Your son could have an unhappy senior season due to the coach.

I want the coach held accountable period. He NEVER expected the Juco coach would tell us what he said, he assumed the Juco coach would just tell my kid sorry not interested. I want the dist AD to make all coaches  log when contacted by a college and what was said. Then they will have to justify there comments

If you want the coach held accountable, then demand a meeting with yourself and that coach.  Do it face to face.  I've coached at the HS for 33+ years now.  There are things here that are not measuring up.  I don't know the coach but I would say this, be prepared to air it out and to hear straight forward what the coach thinks.  I don't have a problem with this and have been there and done that.  Most of the time, the parent doesn't like what they hear.  Then again, when that meeting is done, both you and your son can make other choices if you want.  

Coach2709 and I most often agree but, as a HC, I never talked to parents without the AD present.  I wanted a witness to exactly what was said.  

Last edited by CoachB25
Nonamedad posted:
coach2709 posted:

As an athletic director myself I want to know about this because if this is a recurring trend then it doesn't look well on my school's baseball and athletic program overall.  Now sometimes this is a one off thing and it is what it is but how can we improve as an athletic program if we don't look to address problems / issues as they come up.  That being said going to the AD should not be the first step.

My advice is have your son go to the HC and ask him why he said what he said.  There needs to be a lot of clarification going on here between these two because they are not on the same page.  The coach may be a worthless jerk and that needs to be brought to the AD attention. But, and I'm not trying to be a jerk, your son might be the problem and you or he may not realize it.  That doesn't need to be brought up to the AD.  This isn't an easy situation and it needs to be handled carefully but it needs to be taken care of.  You may want to wait until after the season so the HC can't hold it against your son if that's a possibility.

But all issues and lines of communication need to start with the HC first before being brought to the AD and then principal.  Our policy is first step is HC the next day.  We do not allow parents to bring up issues after games or practice.  Set up an appointment and we will meet at school because cooler heads tend to prevail with this protocol.  If you are not satisfied with that meeting then you can schedule an appointment with the AD but I will never discuss playing time nor position.

Thx for replying, what is your opinion of getting a log for coaches to complete when contacted by RCs to keep all conversations above board and transparent?

Honestly, I am not in favor of it and would never recommend it.  The extreme vast majority of time this is never an issue because as others have said the coach will speak highly of the player or let them know ahead of time what they are going to say.  If it gets to the point where we have to log what our coaches say to RCs then I'm going to the principal and let them know it's probably time to look at making a change.  We aren't doing what's in the best interests of the player and school so it would be time to find someone who would do the right thing.

CoachB25 - the vast majority of the time I am present at that meeting because of what you said.  I go into those meetings looking to protect my coaches and if something needs to be done then it will be done behind closed doors with just me and the coach.  It will never happen in front of a parent or player.  What I've seen is that the parent just wants to vent and once they do it's over.  I had a parent approach me after a game and they went on a small tirade about the coach.  Once they were done I looked at them and asked if they felt better.  They laughed and said they did then walked away. It was over.

One year I had  a very talented class of players and we were talking about plans after high school.  I told them to get me a list of 5 or so schools they would like to go where they could realistically play and have what they may want to major it.  None of these guys were DI but they could play somewhere.  All but one guy gave me a realistic list - he put Kentucky, Tennessee, Florida State and another big school.  I looked at his list, laughed and threw it away.  It wasn't the first time we didn't see eye to eye on his talent and I told him several times if those schools were to call me for some reason I was going to be honest and say I did not believe he could play there.  We didn't have a good relationship but I was honest with him and that's all you can ask.

What is the end goal here - Get the coach fired? Make sure it doesn't happen again? I'm not sure what a call log is going to do. The AD is not going to call the HC of a college and ask what was said on a private phone call just to make sure they're saying nice things. Not that a college coach would ever respond to a request like that. 

I'm all for standing up for yourself and holding people accountable but there is no sense in fighting a battle you can't win. The AD and the HS coach have a relationship, you're just another parent that was there for 4 years. Either way its he said she said. 

Have your son play for himself and his teammates, wait until this year is over and then feel free to let him know what a piece of ____ he is and let it all out. Then next spring send him a signed team poster for his office. Joking... (maybe)

Last edited by PABaseball

There are some great responses here in this thread.  I can't speak for all school districts but can speak for where I coach.  The various coaching staffs have to be evaluated every year now.  They have to be rehired every year now.  We no longer have a system where you keep your job because you were the HC last year.  I have had one losing season ever.  Still, I knew that from that losing season, I stood a chance of not being retained.   I have been the HC in 4 sports and some have overlapped.  Coaching has changed so much.  HS coaches are not as important in recruitment now.  Still, some get after it and have contacts.  I still have contacts and I think my recommendations go a long way.  That won't last much longer in most cases.  For the second time in my coaching career, and the other one in basketball, a father/mother tried to get me fired last spring.  When all was said and done, they didn't get the job done and had no idea that I actually had asked both the AD and the Principal to attend several games to see their behavior.  They won't be attending any more games at our school since the meeting didn't go as they wanted and I'll leave it at that.  Still, I think parents should go to the AD if they are upset.  I also think that most of the time, parents are misled by their child and are shocked at what is said in those meetings about their offspring.  

Last edited by CoachB25

I’m not the crazy parent in the stands, my wife and I spent most of the season working the snack bar. This thread has kind of gotten off track, I’m not complaining about the big bad coach who is treating my precious little angel unfairly. I’ve barely interacted with the coach, we heard some bad stuff about him and it turned out to be true. He can run his program however he wants, but when he (out of nowhere) makes comments to a Juco coach that could cost me thousands of dollars I GOT A HUGE PROBLEM. I did talk to him as many have stated and after his initial surprise he very smugly stated that was his opinion and that was that. He could have ruined my kids future, I think the Juco coach was a stand up guy for telling us. I bet many here are now wondering, did a coach secretly hurt my kids chances. Luckily he’s not very highly thought of and the Juco coach said what the HS coach said was so different from what the travel coach said and what he saw on the transcripts he ignored him. Still scary to have a person without accountability make judgements on 17-18 yo kids. Crazy to me

This is like calling the police for a car accident that didn’t happen. Someone cut you off and you’re ticked. When you get home you say to your wife, “You wouldn’t believe what some jerk did to me on the road on the way home.”

You're ticked because someone tried to harm your son. But he didn’t. You can only make his senior year difficult by making this an issue with the coach and the athletic department.

The AD is not going to let you tell him how to run his department and what coaches should do with recruiting. He might politely tell you he will give it some consideration. Then everyone will get a good laugh at your suggestion at the next AD and coaches meeting.  

Relax and enjoy your son’s senior year. Move on. There’s no sense watching your son’s senior year with your butt cheeks clenched all season.

Nonamedad posted:
RJM posted:

What purpose would going over the coach’s head to the AD serve? Payback? AD’s typically think it’s the parents who are the problem when they run to him. Besides, the AD and the coach have a relationship. You don’t. 

Your son hasn’t signed an NLI yet. He hasn’t played his senior year yet. He got what he wants in terms of college ball. I would move on. I wouldn’t create more problems. You may not get satisfaction. Your son could have an unhappy senior season due to the coach.

I want the coach held accountable period. He NEVER expected the Juco coach would tell us what he said, he assumed the Juco coach would just tell my kid sorry not interested. I want the dist AD to make all coaches  log when contacted by a college and what was said. Then they will have to justify there comments

I'm curious what "Plan B" is if the AD sides with the coach and does not hold him accountable? 

Also, earlier you said the coach was lazy, etc. and the entire team reflected this attitude.  If your son was on the team, and the entire team reflected this attitude, does that mean your son also reflected this attitude or was he the one player that didn't?

I'm not trying to bash you or your son here, but it sounds like you are hell bent on some type of revenge that may end up backfiring on you.  What happens if you try to get the coach in trouble (or  maybe you do succeed and do get the coach in trouble) and then that coach calls your sons JUCO coach back and tells him what kind of problems you caused because you didn't agree with his assessment of your son.  That JUCO coach could very well decide he doesn't want this potential headache and decide to rescind his offer.

I would be mad at the HS HC, cuss him under your breath...and move on.  You guys already won.  Your son got a full ride with the potential of an even brighter future down the road.  Don't end up being "That Dad" and screwing over your son to prove your point.

PABaseball posted:

What is the end goal here - Get the coach fired? Make sure it doesn't happen again? I'm not sure what a call log is going to do. The AD is not going to call the HC of a college and ask what was said on a private phone call just to make sure they're saying nice things. Not that a college coach would ever respond to a request like that. 

I'm all for standing up for yourself and holding people accountable but there is no sense in fighting a battle you can't win. The AD and the HS coach have a relationship, you're just another parent that was there for 4 years. Either way its he said she said. 

Have your son play for himself and his teammates, wait until this year is over and then feel free to let him know what a piece of ____ he is and let it all out. Then next spring send him a signed team poster for his office. Joking... (maybe)

I agree.   There is no way any parent would "win" this battle.  And what would a parent "win" anyway?  Getting the coach fired?   Is that what you truly want in your son's senior year?  Better to deal with the devil you know and not a devil you don't.  A new coach would bring a whole new set of possible issues.  Some battles are not worth fighting.

I don't see what the purpose of a call log would serve.  It doesn't do squat for anyone at the moment.

NoNameDad - As previously posted, control what you and your son can control - academics, hustle during practice and games, improving his skill set, leadership on and off the field.  Enjoy his senior year.   Trust me - it goes by fast.   Faster than you can imagine.  If you spend that time fretting over something you have no control over, you'll be miserable.  If you still feel the need to meet with the AD, I suggest doing so after your son graduates - that way they have nothing to hold against you or your son.  At that point you are a concerned taxpayer/citizen expressing your concerns.  However, I would strongly suggest letting it go.   After HS, getting prepared for college (Juco or whatever) is going to keep you and your son quite busy.

I don't think this has been mentioned, but maybe, just maybe, it was a way the coach thought he could motivate your son.  Yes, the proper or preferred way would have been for him to talk to your son.  He should be praised for his honesty to some degree though it was not a good way to go about it.  Keep in mind he was asked his opinion of your son by the JuCo coach and he gave it.  Fortunately, the JuCo coach did not give it much weight.

Good luck to your son in his senior year.   Enjoy it!

NoNameDad, you started this post asking for our advise.  I don't think there's one person that has recommended you speak with the AD before/during the season.  Since then, you've been responding back, justifying your stance.  Now it's you against the world.  Either take the advise you solicited or don't. 

One thing I haven't seen mentioned, and probably the most important, what does your son want you to do?  Regardless of the outcome, good or bad, he will be the one most impacted.

Yes, and I found this board when I was mad at my son's coach for over using him and I wanted a place to vent.  I know my first few posts I came across as a pissy prick.  The moms and dads here woke me up and now I'm a happy fool.

Special thanks to RJM, Cabbage, TPM (I think...the guy with "I'm still trying to figure out a clever handle) and countless others...

Nonamedad posted:

I’m not the crazy parent in the stands, my wife and I spent most of the season working the snack bar. This thread has kind of gotten off track, I’m not complaining about the big bad coach who is treating my precious little angel unfairly. I’ve barely interacted with the coach, we heard some bad stuff about him and it turned out to be true. He can run his program however he wants, but when he (out of nowhere) makes comments to a Juco coach that could cost me thousands of dollars I GOT A HUGE PROBLEM. I did talk to him as many have stated and after his initial surprise he very smugly stated that was his opinion and that was that. He could have ruined my kids future, I think the Juco coach was a stand up guy for telling us. I bet many here are now wondering, did a coach secretly hurt my kids chances. Luckily he’s not very highly thought of and the Juco coach said what the HS coach said was so different from what the travel coach said and what he saw on the transcripts he ignored him. Still scary to have a person without accountability make judgements on 17-18 yo kids. Crazy to me

FWIW the most ballistic I have ever seen a parent go off on a coach was a mom who ran the snack bar Jr. year but her son was cut as a senior. Volunteer work doesn't provide some kind of vaccine against being _that_ parent. 

I hope your son gets to enjoy his senior season without this stuff intruding.

SomeBaseballDad posted:
FriarFred posted:

but I would strongly suggest not going to the AD as it wont end well.

I agree with those who have stated this. Kind of like going to traffic court. Who do you think the judge is going to believe, you or the officer. 

Yeah, but in some situations a parent absolutely has to ask for that meeting.  This is not one of them.

BTW a good friend is AD at a HS one of our kid's attended.  There's very little that goes on in his dept and school that he doesn't know about without being told by a parent.

I have been the coach in one of those bad meetings.  A parent heard someone say something to her son and thought it was me.  She came in furious the next morning to a meeting with me and the AD dragging her son along.  I had gotten a heads up from a mutual friend that she was wanting to meet with me and what it was about.  She started the meeting with calling me every name under the sun and saying how bad of a coach I was and how bad the AD and the sports program in general was while her son sat there with his head down the whole time muttering please be quiet.  When she finally got to the incident, I whipped out my phone and pulled up the facebook live that a lady had done of the game. and had it to the exact spot in the game.  I played it for her and she realized I was talking to the referee at the time and it was the lady videoing the game's husband that shouted at their son and not her son.  She had just misunderstood.  I will admit that he did not get as much playing time the rest of the season and had been a starter.  I felt sorry for the kid but sometimes our kids get the blunt of our mistakes.  The kid got cut the next year because the high school coaches did not want to deal with the mom. 

Just a real life incident where the meeting did not go as planned.  Might want to think about it before you open that can.  I know coaches who would take losses rather than reward a kid they don't like or a kid of a parent they don't like.  I still hold there is something in the past you don't know about between your son and the coach.

BTW, 2 families I know of met with the coach and AD last year, sons were both juniors.  One will not be trying out this year and the other is undecided. 

They won't admit it, but I bet they regret having that meeting and know they adversely impacted their son, either with the coach or just emotionally for the kid (tough to play when you know your parents had a rough meeting)

PitchingFan posted:

I have been the coach in one of those bad meetings.  A parent heard someone say something to her son and thought it was me.  She came in furious the next morning to a meeting with me and the AD dragging her son along.  I had gotten a heads up from a mutual friend that she was wanting to meet with me and what it was about.  She started the meeting with calling me every name under the sun and saying how bad of a coach I was and how bad the AD and the sports program in general was while her son sat there with his head down the whole time muttering please be quiet.  When she finally got to the incident, I whipped out my phone and pulled up the facebook live that a lady had done of the game. and had it to the exact spot in the game.  I played it for her and she realized I was talking to the referee at the time and it was the lady videoing the game's husband that shouted at their son and not her son.  She had just misunderstood.  I will admit that he did not get as much playing time the rest of the season and had been a starter.  I felt sorry for the kid but sometimes our kids get the blunt of our mistakes.  The kid got cut the next year because the high school coaches did not want to deal with the mom. 

Just a real life incident where the meeting did not go as planned.  Might want to think about it before you open that can.  I know coaches who would take losses rather than reward a kid they don't like or a kid of a parent they don't like.  I still hold there is something in the past you don't know about between your son and the coach.

“Our kid gets the blunt of our mistakes “coaches taking losses rather than reward a kid” so powerful.

This humbled me so much. I am glad I am in this site so early! Learning so much from everyone experience!

 

“she has broken him” ok in my time zone it’s 9:30 late Arrival today I am sipping on coffee and freaking crying. Stop it. I am crying 😭! 

Last edited by NY

My youngest son is blessed to have two older brothers who paved the way of my stupidity so that he has it better.  My two older sons were adults by the time my youngest was in middle school so they had already told me how bad I acted and how I embarrassed them at times.  Thank God for children who will be honest.  My youngest does not know how much he should thank his older two brothers.  I just wonder how many athletes have been broken by their parents over the years by their behavior. 

We run a church children's basketball league and had two coaches get nose to nose the other night.  I had to sit both of them and would have sent them to the parking lot if I thought they would not have fought.  One said it was not that big of a deal.  I answered if you could have seen your 7 year old crying because of how you were acting you would think differently, but maybe not.  I was reminded, it is just a game for kids to play whether it is baseball or basketball or football or soccer or fill in the blank. 

I am honest. If a college coach, or scout ask me for my opinion they are going to get my honest opinion. Building relationships on trust get's guys way more opportunities than it causes guys to lose opportunities. I wont be saying anything I haven't already said to the player and the parents I can guarantee you that. 

Now having said that I have serious issues with any college coach who bases his decision solely on the opinion of one person. Unless he has a long time relationship with that coach and he has proven to be trustworthy over a long period of time. So if a college coach simply took the word of a HS coach to base his decision on then in my opinion that's a poor reflection on the coach not the player.

If a college coach got a negative report like this on a player from his HS coach it should only be one piece of the puzzle. What do his summer coaches say? What do his former team mates say? What do the players say who have competed with him and against him? What have your eyes told you when you observed him during games interacting with his team mates? What have other coaches heard and who did they hear it from? What have your interactions with the player told you? And what do the assistant coaches of his HS program say?

If this HS coach told you he said these things to the college coach and: He has never brought this to the players attention and assisted him with changing the behavior. If he has never brought it to the parents attention and asked for assistance in changing this behavior. Then the HS coach is a total clown and has failed miserably and doesn't need to be coaching. 

I have heard of HS coaches trashing players before. I personally know of a couple of instances where a HS coach trashed a player because he simply didn't like the player. In both instances the information from other sources proved to be in such direct variance from the HS coaches comments it was discounted. I can tell you it's not an easy thing to tell a college coach the truth sometimes. But it is imperative if you want to be trusted to provide the truth on a player that is deserving of an opportunity. 

If what your saying is indeed true that is very sad and a total failure from the HS coach AND the college coach as well. 

 

Nonamedad posted:

Ok here we go.... son did very well this past summer, played for a great travel team, went to big events and had fun. He’s a 2019 and finally hit the elusive 90mph mark and above. Many local jucos startec showing interest through the travel team and began contacting him, about 7 that wanted him to visit. So we began the visits, one coach really liked him and he asked about his grades and said he wanted to talk to his HS coach. No big deal we thought....Juco coach calls him back a few day later and says that after meeting my son and because of how well he knew the travel coach he was going to offer him a full ride, but he said your HS coach said really bad things abou you,, not a leader, can’t be counted on, lazy. We were shocked and I was PISSED, the coach NEVER spoke to my son about any of this negative stuff, he was the #2 pitcher his junior year and did well. He has 3.3 gpa and scored a 26 ACT. Talked to the coach who was very smug and said that was his opinion, I couldn’t believe it, never interacted with him, did a lot of extra work on fund raising and snack bar duty, and this guy almost cost us $11000 scholarship. Next step is district athletic director, we now only use the assistant baseball coach as reference and travel coach. What do you guys think? The few people I’ve told have never heard of this from a coach before unless the kid was a hug disciplinary problem. 

Out of curiosity, what was the HS record last year?  

I am not stating this is the case with your kid. However I have known coaches who keep the bar higher for the exceptional players as it would help them transition to "next level". They would be very disappointed in the better players not meeting the standards and would still play them (the team still needed to win). While having great metrics is a good indicator of an players individual personal work ethic, it does not tell him what kind of teammate he was

Echoing what some others have said, college coaches call to find out about a player's character, not their skill.
 
You want to say positive things.  With most players, it's easy to do that.
 
But you also want to maintain your long-term credibility.  So, in the occasional event that  a player has character issues, you damn them with faint praise.
 
There are rare instances where a player's character issues are such that you have to actively bring them up with the college coach.  It's not enjoyable.  You hope that  you can conclude the conversation by mentioning that the player is redeemable.  
Dominik85 posted:

I mean maybe there even is some truth to his assessment (i don't know) but even then i would expect him to sugarcoat it a little, he isn't owing the college anything.

I am not commenting on this specific situation, but in general, I think you are wrong — the coach may not owe the college anything, but he has to be honest for the sake of every kid he may (or may not) recommend.

Baseball is a really small world and if a HS coach is less than honest about a kid, it will get around. College coaches of all levels will figure out he can't be trusted, and eventually he will say nice things about a kid, but no one will believe him.

 

There’s usually a “Paul Harvey” aspect to these stories. They usually don’t occur until the parent demands a meeting with the coach. The coach demands the player attends. Then the parent is made aware of parts of the story the kid omitted. As Paul Harvey says, “We’ll be right back with the rest of the story.”

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