High School Not A Dream For All

Tell your 5 friends to take a parental role and not allow their sons to be tortured by the high school experience.  If it is as bad as you suggest, those players can rest and relax while HS baseball is going on. 

@CoachB25 posted:

Tell your 5 friends to take a parental role and not allow their sons to be tortured by the high school experience.  If it is as bad as you suggest, those players can rest and relax while HS baseball is going on.

It was more torture for the dads. I think in many of the cases the kid was not thrilled but willing to wear it just to be part of the team.

I don't understand this post.  I can think of many reasons why kid's HS experience was "torture".  I can think of many more scenarios where the experience was magical.  In many season there are moments of both of these experiences... that's baseball.  What do the dad's have to do with it?

Torture for the fathers?!?!?!

That made me laugh, pretty hard.   What a strange , helicopter parent world we live in.

A high school kid today with the independence and mental toughness of a slightly below average 1970’s kid has almost superhero level mental strength compared to their peers.

I understand this post. I have seen and heard things you wouldn't believe.

I actually think some dads need to stay home, they just take it too seriously. 

@TPM posted:

I understand this post. I have seen and heard things you wouldn't believe.

I actually think some dads need to stay home, they just take it too seriously.

Sent my husband on a looong walk to the car yesterday.  Pretended I needed sunscreen even though I already had it on and knew it wasn't in the car.

FWIW, in many of the cases of what I am aware, objectively, the dads are 100% wrong and just don't get it. But, they are operating with dad goggles and not seeing what everyone else sees. But, even though the dads are in the wrong and twisted for no good reason, it doesn't change the fact that they are feeling miserable over their son's HS experience.

Then, in some other cases, they have a legitimate case where the coach is being abusive or vindictive. And, everyone sees it that way.

@TPM posted:

I understand this post. I have seen and heard things you wouldn't believe.

I actually think some dads need to stay home, they just take it too seriously.

Bingo.

Is it possible too many fathers revel in being in the spotlight with their son? Fathers have to remember they had their turn whether they made the team or not. Now it’s their son’s turn. Playing time and success are not about the father. It’s about the player.

After an all conference soph year my son had a spectacular (unconscious) junior year. When I arrived parents raved to me about my son. I would smile, quietly thank them and suggest they tell my son, not me. I told them I was just there to enjoy the game. I tended to cheer louder for other players than my son.

The point is too many father’s want to bask in the glory and see their son’s success as a reflection on them. I had already had my turn. I was there to enjoy my son’s turn.

Age by age travel has a lot of dads thinking their kids are studs through 14u. Then the kids get to high school. Varsity is essentially 18/19u ball. Not every 14u stud makes the next step. Many fathers can’t grasp it.

@TPM posted:

I understand this post. I have seen and heard things you wouldn't believe.

I actually think some dads need to stay home, they just take it too seriously.

I seen dads show up religiously and be ticked off for two and a half hours two, three times per week all season.

The one time I was ticked off I was fatigued by the time the game was over. I said some things I probably shouldn’t have said about the coach’s maturity and lack of ability to communicate with players. Fortunately it didn’t affect my son.

Come on franny spill it. Too vague, need more details on the issues from those dads.

@2022NYC posted:

Come on franny spill it. Too vague, need more details on the issues from those dads.

I don't want to out anyone.

But, at a high level it's things like a dad thinking his son should get playing time just because he's a senior, another dad thinking his son should have been playing a position regularly regardless of the fact that he's a defensive liability, stuff like that...

Booo, simple dad drama. Stay in the OF with me and avoid that non sense

I think it depends.  Some parents do look through rose colored glasses.  Some coaches make it miserable. Our son's sophomore year was very stressed filled and not fun. Our coach is old school.  Tended to be condescending. and had a lot of kids questioning themselves. Told one P5 kid that he didn't know what the school saw in him.  Told a future second rounder (out of hs) that he shouldn't be worried about the mlb. Threatened to cut kids after mistakes (in front of the team). Told my kid that college coaches wouldn't like his delivery and if he didn't change it, he would sit all year.  He sat all year.  Lots of college coaches called him to have my son call and we have NO idea what he said to them.  It was a confidence drain. He still committed to a P5 that summer. The next year he played, they needed him, but the conversations were the same.  He learned to let it roll off his back.  I will say we have heard now from a lot of guys that their college coaches are just as brutal in the things they say and how demeaning they can be.   I guess in most cases, it's just good training for what they will experience in the future.

I have a simple rule. I shut up unless I want to coach!

No matter how much I disagree.

@baseballhs posted:

I will say we have heard now from a lot of guys that their college coaches are just as brutal in the things they say and how demeaning they can be.   I guess in most cases, it's just good training for what they will experience in the future.

THIS.

I've heard people who are afraid to say something to their kid because they don't want to get into their head, upset them, cause doubt, derail conference, etc.

And, I get it. No one should say to a kid that they suck, should quit, etc.

But, that said, in college, coaches aren't going to pull any punches or sugarcoat stuff. They will call you out and be blunt on weaknesses and shortcomings, areas for improvement, etc.

And, if stuff like that is going to cause a kid to have a hissy fit then they aren't going to last long in college.

There are terrible HS coaches but I would rather have my kid learn how to deal with it by not letting them change who he is and use the time on the team build friendships and support his "brothers".  Balance will eventually happen and bad coaches do leave or get removed. Ultimately the kid determines what kind of HS baseball experience he will have, if playing time is the fun metric...that should be reevaluated, just sayin

Soph year my son thought his high school coach didn’t like him. It turned out a young, rising star, first time head coach held the old school approach his much older mentor had towards rookies.

The guy was really rough on my son even though he was starting and had a real good season. He even showed him up in front of the varsity and JV team on the bus one day, After the last game soph year the coach told my son he expects him to put the team on his back next year.

Their relationship completely changed his junior year. My son relaxed enough to start seeing his coach’s sense of humor.

I saw the only recruited player to a mid D1 sit all senior year in HS. I thought it was odd and showed poor judgment by the HS coach. So, the college coach was wrong recruiting that player? And the HS coach was right about his abilities?
Please explain. I’m not as well versed in baseball as you guys.

@RHPitcherparent posted:

I saw the only recruited player to a mid D1 sit all senior year in HS. I thought it was odd and showed poor judgment by the HS coach. So, the college coach was wrong recruiting that player? And the HS coach was right about his abilities?
Please explain. I’m not as well versed in baseball as you guys.

So this player went on to have a great career at a DI school?  I recall a softball player whose dad told everyone that would listen that his daughter had committed to Alabama as a freshman.  He continued that story despite the fact that it was obvious that this young lady was not a DI player.  In fact, she sat on the bench and he railed that she was going to Alabama anyway.  LOL  She didn't even play DIII.  She wasn't good enough.  The last time he told the story, she had changed her mind and was going to Texas.  That is why she didn't sign NLI day. 

The player you speak of did sign a NLI on that date?  Correct? 

Yes coachB25. He’s playing at a mid-D1 as a freshman next year. All signed. Sat on the bench his entire senior year in HS and didn’t play one inning. I thought maybe since he was already recruited, the HS was giving other kids playing time to be seen? Not sure. Team only won half their games.

RHPitcherparent, my son is also a D1 commit to a top 15 program and has been treated the same way you speak of since his freshman year. He got committed from his travel team and never played a varsity game. His travel teammates pick at him that he can commit to a D1, but can't make varsity. He was the only D1 kid on the team. Some coaches are just idiots. Most of the kids that play varsity on my son's team kiss the coaches ass, parents kiss his ass,  families sponsor the team or give money to the booster's. My son will not do any of that and has earned everything on his own without any Highschool help. A good showcase team is well worth the price. The D1 coaches put more stock in travel coaches than Hs coaches now due to issues like this. I hoped HS would be a good experience, but it sucks. Kids with good HS coaches and teams are very lucky. My son just sits out and deals with it, knowing that college is the only thing that matters and is right around the corner next year!

There is a kid pitching at this moment in the NCAA vs South Carolina who hardly pitched in HS. I mean like 12 innings or so SR season coaches choice.

Pdogg1 yes, I’m sure the player didn’t do the right political stuff to butter up the coach. Or fund the coach’s feeble attempt to make a living with side lessons. Good practice for office politics though if the kids ends up in the business world

@old_school posted:

There is a kid pitching at this moment in the NCAA vs South Carolina who hardly pitched in HS. I mean like 12 innings or so SR season coaches choice.

Best game of the weekend so far! 

@RHPitcherparent posted:

I saw the only recruited player to a mid D1 sit all senior year in HS. I thought it was odd and showed poor judgment by the HS coach. So, the college coach was wrong recruiting that player? And the HS coach was right about his abilities?
Please explain. I’m not as well versed in baseball as you guys.

Sometimes there are discipline, attitude and/or academic issues parents and fans aren’t made aware. Sometimes the story the player and parent tells is a cover rather than the truth.

1. @CoachB25 posted:

So this player went on to have a great career at a DI school?  I recall a softball player whose dad told everyone that would listen that his daughter had committed to Alabama as a freshman.  He continued that story despite the fact that it was obvious that this young lady was not a DI player.  In fact, she sat on the bench and he railed that she was going to Alabama anyway.  LOL  She didn't even play DIII.  She wasn't good enough.  The last time he told the story, she had changed her mind and was going to Texas.  That is why she didn't sign NLI day.

The player you speak of did sign a NLI on that date?  Correct?

There was a father like this with a kid on our high school team. The trouble was high school coaches were constantly screwing the kid. He went to three high schools in four years. He didn’t get on the field often. The number of major conference offers flowing in was incredible. Except signing day came and went. The kid proceeded to get screwed walking on in college. In three years he attended a D2, a JuCo and a D3. In total he had a 7+ ERA in about 10 innings.

The reality was the kid was a dominant LL stud on the mound and at the plate.  Dad never accepted the kid wasn’t a stud in the following years. He got to varsity. But pitchers don’t have much success throwing 83-85 down Main Street. The kid had no command at all. 5’9” pitchers aren’t the first ones coaches look for.

RJM, I am sure that is the case for some. Mine has straight A's with a 4.5 Gpa and ranks 3rd in his class. Not to mention he sits 88-89 and tops out in the 92 range. He has never had any attitude issues with any coaches he has ever played for. Plain and simple, my son has and never will kiss any coaches ass or have me pay his way to play. He just sits back and watches his team lose almost all of their games and keeps working on his time to be ready for showcase, where he plays on one of the top teams in the country.

TPM, I've missed all the conversations we had in years past.  I hope all is well with son.  My son ended up a lawyer (yuck!)  

@TPM posted:

I understand this post. I have seen and heard things you wouldn't believe.

I actually think some dads need to stay home, they just take it too seriously.

@pdogg1 posted:

RJM, I am sure that is the case for some. Mine has straight A's with a 4.5 Gpa and ranks 3rd in his class. Not to mention he sits 88-89 and tops out in the 92 range. He has never had any attitude issues with any coaches he has ever played for. Plain and simple, my son has and never will kiss any coaches ass or have me pay his way to play. He just sits back and watches his team lose almost all of their games and keeps working on his time to be ready for showcase, where he plays on one of the top teams in the country.

I didn’t post there aren’t any kids who get screwed. But I’d guess 95% of those complaining their kid got screwed didn’t. If it wasn’t about the parent seeing their kid’s talent level differently than the coach as parents/fans we’re often not privy to what occurs in practice and sometimes in school (behavior).

Here's the thing about baseball.  At each level, it less about the kids separating themselves from the competition than the parents separating the kids from the competition.  Once you get to the top - the parents are cool.  Baseball is fundamentally mental.

@pdogg1 posted:

Some coaches are just idiots.

Yep.

There is something oddly comforting about signs of things returning to normal...

   ... a HSBBW thread turning into a coach bashing thread

Amen. Coach bashing in a environment with empathetic and sympathetic parents is therapeutic. Luckily the HS coaches in here have thick skin and seem to understand the value of a parent venting. Hopefully this rant will release some stress and they can move on. Here is my selfish rant: I hope the kid does well in his playoff game this week. My work week sucks and I am moving a lot around to attend the game and I will be somewhat annoyed if my kid sits, but I will eventually and hopefully quickly get over it as 1. I am not at work 2. Watching a HS baseball game where a year ago not having that opportunity. 3. The weather will feel like summer baseball 4. There will certainly be "that parent" in the backstop area and will remind me how much worse I could be.

@Bum posted:

TPM, I've missed all the conversations we had in years past.  I hope all is well with son.  My son ended up a lawyer (yuck!)  

Wow Bum, unbelievable you joined in. Often wonder about how things turned out. Good for your son! Mine still in baseball, coaching. It's his passion and he loves it, even though there it's not an easy job.

Well, it seems I hit a hornets nest with a bat here. Yes, good for us to all vent like old times. The kid I mentioned used baseball to get into a top ten ranked HA school. So he’ll probably be laughing all the way to the bank in a few years. I do feel for coaches. I tried it once and it was like trying to heard cats. It’s a tough job navigating so many players, personalities, and being under constant pressure to win or be fired. Thanks coaches for all you do out there!

“Herd” cats. State college grad here.

There are a lot of variables here. Coaches want to win. But depending on the team, HS baseball is a game where you can win the majority without always putting your best players on the field. In all of youth sports, there is often a gap between reality and the parents’ perceptions of their kids’ abilities/work ethic/contributions to the team. There are also coaches who prefer certain types of players in certain positions. Finally, there are a lot of amazing coaches with both a love of their players and a deep knowledge of the game; there are coaches who are well-intentioned but are learning as they go along and make mistakes that don’t make sense from the outside but are not malicious; and there are coaches whose egos are bigger than their concern for their players or who truly have a blind spot for certain players. We have been lucky enough to live in the first two places the majority of our sons career but we have experienced the later.  There is value in playing through all types of coaches as there are lessons in each situation but there are times where change may be warranted.

At the first high school I attended I played for head coaches in football, basketball and baseball who had been around so long they were assistants when my father played. They had old school ideas about how to play the game and motivation. All three were anti Semites. One of them actually said out loud, “I can’t believe EWM married a Jew and had a little Jew boy” to my face. I spent that year mumbling FU to myself a lot. But I didn’t let it get in my way of enjoying each sport and being successful. It just made me tougher. I didn’t quit. By chance I moved.

It made my first job out of college a lot easier when I went to work for a manager who didn’t realize it was 1978 and not 1945. I was so excited to receive an offer from the (then) #1 corporation in the world I didn’t notice my final interview was with a complete arsehole (the guy I would be reporting to).

When I started an MBA program at night he threatened me not to get smart and quit on him. I did. I didn’t need an MBA to be smart enough to decide I had enough of drill instructor style verbal abuse. A few years later he was offered early retirement when it was discovered his last six successful hires all left the company within three years of starting. The world had changed on this guy. He didn’t. He was a hire the vet, post WWII hire without a college degree forced to hire all college graduates with at least a 3.2 gpa.

One of the great responses to this arse came from a friend. After making a mistake the manager asked him how long he had worked here. His response, “Too effing long!” He scaled his notebook at his desk and kept going. He went home, typed his resignation and returned in the morning.

After this big time corporation purchased two companies I went to work for (It was like the Twilight Zone. I couldn’t escape.) and injecting the same corporate mentality ** I started my own company with two partners. Sometimes being uncomfortable can push you in the direction of the best decision you can make in your life.

** Imagine working for a Silicon Valley startup that had keggers Friday afternoon and you’re purchased by the stiffest corporation in the world. They come in and changes all the rules. Imagine going from Friday afternoon keggers to faux champagne at Christmas parties.

Hit’s school sports is just training for future realities. But if you want a real wake up call join the military.

RJM I did not have to "join". They drafted my ass before I was done with college. Brought a bus to Iowa City over Easter Break so we could get our physicals. The antiwar riots were on in IC and building burned and recruiters car blown up. They loved seeing us in the ARMY>

A very different atmosphere than college. And they could hit you then!

Venting is a good thing! I just wanted to make a few points to others on here that may fall into a situation like ours. #1, You do not need to play varsity or have any involvement from HS coaches to get committed. #2, There are plenty of good HS coaches out there that do right by players, but just as many that do not need to coach. #3, A good legit showcase team is well worth the money. #4, Hs is no where as important as college baseball. #5, Learn that life is not fair all the time and just work hard doing the right things.

The draft ended when I entered my senior year of high school. I missed out on all the fun. One of my friend’s older brother returned really messed up. He was in a forward position. He came home throwing rocks thinking they were hand grenades.

We all want life to be fair all the time. But, a kid coming home from war effed up makes whining about high school sports seem trite.

When I see a kid in a wheelchair I think of whining sports parents and think, “This is what’s not fair.”

@pdogg1 posted:

Venting is a good thing! I just wanted to make a few points to others on here that may fall into a situation like ours. #1, You do not need to play varsity or have any involvement from HS coaches to get committed. #2, There are plenty of good HS coaches out there that do right by players, but just as many that do not need to coach. #3, A good legit showcase team is well worth the money. #4, Hs is no where as important as college baseball. #5, Learn that life is not fair all the time and just work hard doing the right things.

I think it depends where you are from. In Florida, where I live,  a red flag may go up if the player is strongly committed to a top program and never played varsity.  And yes, a good legit tournament/showcase team is a plus.

And correct, life isn't always fair.

Great for D, TPM.  R gave me a grandson now so I've gotta get plugged in here to ready for T-ball.

Ahhh.. The best years of T-ball, LL, and travel. Miss that the most.

@TPM posted:

I think it depends where you are from. In Florida, where I live,  a red flag may go up if the player is strongly committed to a top program and never played varsity.  And yes, a good legit tournament/showcase team is a plus.

And correct, life isn't always fair.

Curious: is the red flag for the player, or for the HS team/coach? Around here, it would be unfathomable for that sort of player to not be V (and often from 9th grade).

@Senna posted:

Curious: is the red flag for the player, or for the HS team/coach? Around here, it would be unfathomable for that sort of player to not be V (and often from 9th grade).

The player.

JMO

Even being a D1 commit can't beat out money and donations to the booster's. In some towns, its's about your last name and standing in the community. It hurts some parents and players alike when a kid that does not come from money and does not have a community family comes up and makes a names for himself without the HS coach ever being involved. They all ask why a kid that never got to play varsity at all, can commit before their kid that has been the coaches and community's favorite for years. There are alot of hurt ego's in HS for parents and players. Just have the kids keep working and doing their thing, not worrying about everyone else. Good things come to the one's that deserve it.

The HS coach wanted to be the judge and jury as to who get recruited on his team. When a HS player commits thru his club and leaves the HS coach off the contact info, the player will pay dearly for bruising the HS coach’s precious ego. That’s reality. The only college recruit on a HS team isn’t benched for his ability. It goes far deeper than that. It’s personal.

The season was torture for me and my wife, but it had nothing to do with what goes on inside the fence. We have 2 or 3 of the worst examples of human beings you could ever imagine as parents. On several occasions we were embarrassed to be sitting by them. On several occasions they tried to fight other parents.... ON OUR TEAM! On several occasions one tried to fight umpires walking to their cars.

I’m not sure why one of them is even allowed to attend games at this point. A few other parents want to talk with the head of school and AD before the next season.

I was chatting with a couple of high school umpires in the parking lot as they prepared for the game. One said coaches don’t control parents anymore. He believes it’s because the parents might try to get them fired if they’re banned.

Just curious, anyone notice a bad level of competition this year?  Not sure if I got spoiled by varsity hs baseball but 16u teams we faced this year aren’t good..,,

We have a stacked team. No sophomores played that much if at all, but I’m convinced they will be better than our current seniors when it is their turn! We have about 6-8 quality players per class year which makes it tough for underclass. You can’t underestimate practice and competing with Varsity. Keep grinding!

@RJM posted:

I was chatting with a couple of high school umpires in the parking lot as they prepared for the game. One said coaches don’t control parents anymore. He believes it’s because the parents might try to get them fired if they’re banned.

That, and they rely on parents for fundraising.

As with most things on Earth: follow the money

@Dadof3 posted:

Just curious, anyone notice a bad level of competition this year?  Not sure if I got spoiled by varsity hs baseball but 16u teams we faced this year aren’t good..,,

The 16u team I coached (with all 15u and 14u players) would have beat a majority of high school varsity teams. The teams they wouldn’t have beaten were teams with junior and senior pitchers headed for D1 programs.** Five players ultimately played D1. All the rest except one played college ball at D2 or D3s. He could have played college ball. He chose to play college basketball.

** In the fall after 14u I had them play in a local 17u tournament. We split four games. We got no hit in one. I remember laughing when our lead off kid returned to the dugout mumbling, “That’s some nasty shite.” We got no hit that game.

@Dadof3 posted:

Just curious, anyone notice a bad level of competition this year?  Not sure if I got spoiled by varsity hs baseball but 16u teams we faced this year aren’t good..,,

Related...or maybe not related...by us, what I noticed a lot was kids who aren't committed, probably never going to play in college, and who either don't play travel baseball or play only on a local and not strong travel team, having good high school seasons or some really big games. Not sure if that's because the competition is watered down or if it is something else? But I have lost count on how many times this year I have thought things like "How come no one has ever heard of this kid?" or "He went 4 for 4?" or stuff like that...