High School Team issues...What do I do?

Simmer down, he's just a freshman and he's made the JV team. It's a marathon not a sprint. If he is as good as you say, his talent will win out over politics.

He has a long career ahead. Have him outwork and outhustle everyone else and struve to be the best. Eventually, he'll rise above the bull****.

quote:

Originally posted by Proud Dad 24:
Simmer down, he's just a freshman and he's made the JV team. It's a marathon not a sprint. If he is as good as you say, his talent will win out over politics.

He has a long career ahead. Have him outwork and outhustle everyone else and struve to be the best. Eventually, he'll rise above the bull****.

Excellent advice.

Lose the drama queen stuff. The price of rice in China will not be affected most assuredly. Look, the only thing your son can control is his attitude and effort. I know you won't believe me, but setbacks are a good thing. They supply motivation. Tell him to take his frustrations out on the baseball. Go out and dive for a ball. Use the motivation to be the biggest hustle-guy on the field. If the opposite happened, where they brought the local paper in to do a story on how "gifted" the freshman prodigy was, you sure would feel a heck of a lot better but I assure you the motivation to prove something would not be there as the only motivation would be how many times to pat yourself on the back. Snubbing and politics are part of every level of baseball. You can use it to your advantage or you can pout and mope.

There's no such thing as a 16U showcase team. Showcase teams are 17/18U. If you expect your son to get college exposure playing 16U you're wasting your money. If you expect him to enjoy playing other quality 16U travel teams and develop into a potential 17/18U, that's what you will get.

Parents often don't see the baseball world the way coaches do. Settle down. Don't bring your son down mentally and emotionally. Tell him to ask the coach what he can improve and how to do it to make varsity in the future. On JV your son should approach every practice and game like it's the seventh game of the World Series. Someone will notice if he's as good as you claim.

Here's some advice: The worst thing you can do is say anything in public you've posted here. DO NOT pass judgement on other players. DO NOT pull for them to fail so your son can get called up. Encourage your son to earn his way while you stay quiet other than pulling for every player in the baseball program.

If yoru son thinks there are things happening that aren't fair, welcome to the real world. If the worst thing that happens to him is not making varsity freshman year he will have lived a charmed life. But don't make it worse by convincing him it's not fair. Convince him to practice and play hard.

Last year my son started the season playing JV, while a player who didn't seem as good started on varsity. I sat my son down and asked him if he was going to let this happen. I then said that he had to work so hard and play with such intensity that he would win that starting job.

It was painful. My son was starting on JV, but was rostered with the varsity and riding the pine behind this other player. Finally, the other player had a bad game, and the coach put my son in for the last couple of innings of a game. My son had fire in his eyes and did very well.

Well, you can guess how it ended. My son won the starting job about 2/3rds of the way through the season. Once he became the starter, the other player never saw another varsity inning in the season. Like my son, he was rostered on varsity, but rode the pine. My son started every post-season game.

When I spoke to my son about it, I told him that he left too much room for someone else to get his position. He should have been so far ahead of the other kid that it was obvious who should start.

These things have a way of working out. Sometimes what seems like a bad thing ends up being a valuable lesson.

This problem seems to surface every year. The best advice is to tell your son he has to play so well that the coaches have to put him on the field.

quote:

Originally posted by RJM:
There's no such thing as a 16U showcase team. Showcase teams are 17/18U. If you expect your son to get college exposure playing 16U you're wasting your money. If you expect him to enjoy playing other quality 16U travel teams and develop into a potential 17/18U, that's what you will get.

Parents often don't see the baseball world the way coaches do. Settle down. Don't bring your son down mentally and emotionally. Tell him to ask the coach what he can improve and how to do it to make varsity in the future. On JV your son should approach every practice and game like it's the seventh game of the World Series. Someone will notice if he's as good as you claim.

Here's some advice: The worst thing you can do is say anything in public you've posted here. DO NOT pass judgement on other players. DO NOT pull for them to fail so your son can get called up. Encourage your son to earn his way while you stay quiet other than pulling for every player in the baseball program.

If yoru son thinks there are things happening that aren't fair, welcome to the real world. If the worst thing that happens to him is not making varsity freshman year he will have lived a charmed life. But don't make it worse by convincing him it's not fair. Convince him to practice and play hard.

actually it is a showcase team...I can post the schedule if you would like...they will be playing up 17/18u in PG tourneys in Florida and several universities in the 3 state area...plus some big tourney in Jupiter Florida...anyway...

I appreciate all the advice...I don't say much to anyone except my closest friend who lives in another district...I have encouraged my son to work hard and to not worry about all the issues, to let me worry with that part of it...

I do wanna know if you feel it would be in his best interest to switch schools...I still maintain its daddy ball and he will never get a shot where he is at...He proved himself last year on JV over the ones that made Varsity...I am not trying to be a drama queen or pamper him but he has opportunities out there and I want to know if I should pursue them...

Here is how I know its daddy ball...His school coach was also the assistant coach on his travel team and his son and my son play the same position..1st, OF and P...well my son out performed his son on the travel team and the coach was unhappy and threatened to leave team etc etc...his son made varsity...so I think its some backlash from that

Transfering won't hurt his chances that much because he's only in a 2AA school now and I know from experience that most 2AA size school players get recruited out of select ball and showcases as both my sons were. If the private schools are within budget, why not switch if he's agreeable. I know there's people here who will say they don't advocate quitting the team or running from adversity, but I think each case merits its own solution. If both you and he are very unhapy and it poisons the atmosphere, it would be better to switch schools at this time. Do whatever you feel is best for his education and his baseball and don't worry about what others think. Good luck!

I wouldn't change high schools over baseball. To me it sends the message that he can't overcome obstacles, and that baseball is THE most important thing in the world.

What happens if he changes school then it doesn't work out there? Do you move him again?

The value in high school baseball is that it teaches important lessons that you don't get when you are picking your team and coaches. It does not replicate the travel ball experience. It is different.

You've had advice for him to work hard and hang in there. Eventually someone will post who will say that you should move him to another school. They will tell you that they moved their son and it worked out. This is a value-based decision, not a baseball decision.

As an employer I like to ask "what obstacles have you overcome to achieve your goals?" My son already has an answer to that question.

JMHO.

dolphindad1,

1. Please a little perspective. He's a freshmen. My two oldest sons made JV while in 8th grade too. They got moved around by the coach, and put in awkward situations that made them both much better players in the long run. Whatever you do, don't say anything to anyone.....it can and will be used against you later. I've seen this scenario many times over.

2. Twotex had a great story a few posts above. That is how you handle business IMHO!

3. You can transfer to a private school but do it for the right reasons.

4. Life sometimes throws curveballs, he has to learn to hit curveballs. BTW....I've seen Daddyball in college too, and I've heard Daddyball is alive and well in the MLB draft.


Best of luck!

quote:

Originally posted by dolphindan1:
Background...My son is a freshman...6'1...lefty...last year as an 8th grader he played JV...played 1st, LF and pitched and hit 3rd in lineup...He was #2 in innings pitched and did very well, he also had the 3rd highest batting average on team...He played 15u USSSA this fall and this spring has been asked to play on a 16u showcase team...

Well he went out for Varsity this year at his local AA public school...He wanted to tryout for first. well the first day the coach tells players to go to positions and as soon as my son goes to 1st the varsity coach sends him to RF...I thought OK no biggie he was great in the OF last year, thats where he has been all last week...he was asked to play in the varsity scrimmage, after only 1 day in a week of bullpen, other pitchers had 2 or 3. He pitched 1 inning..SO, SO, hit, walk, error on 2nd run scores,SO...He only got 1 inning in the field after that, LF...Well today they had cuts and he is told JV only...no real issue playing JV except 4 kids that played last year on JV were brought to Varsity and will play JV also...2 never pitched and 3 had the worst batting averages on the team. 2 kids are coaches sons. One is the AD's son who only made it to 2 days of workouts and not even to scrimmage...1 kid is in 8th grade and tried to go to another public school and was rejected but they are in love with this kid. He was bad last year on JV...I honestly think the dad made an ultimatum or the coaches are kissing his butt to keep this kid there, but I am just guessing...he is a lefty like my son, cant hit, but is a decent pitcher..Also watching the practices and the scrimmage the guys at 1st base cant even field a ground ball...Again coaches son and the 8th grader...he wont even get a shot at infield on JV with those kids playing both and since they are same grade or younger will never get a shot...like I said I have no issue with OF but shouldnt he get a shot to tryout for 1st?

What do I do? My son has been asked to play for 3 private schools and again will play on a 16U showcase team he has been begged to play for...My concern is he is never gonna get a shot at first and wanna know why he wasnt even allowed to tryout for 1st at his current school? It looks like he has been passed over altogether...not sure why...Do I ask the coach? Do I Have my son ask the coach? not sure? He came home very upset. I got several phone calls wondering why he wasnt on Varsity and several kids asked him the same thing...not trying to brag but its really small town BS and its very frustrating...

I have tried to explain to him that his opportunities will come from the PG tourney's and other showcase tourneys he will play this summer...also that where he goes to school will not really be the issue...He thinks he wont get looked at in a private school...I asked him How many signed from his current school the last 5 years...We could only name 2...

any advice?

I think you have a legitimate gripe. If two of the coach's and AD's son is on the team I would bet they wouldn't be benched. Your son will be playing on a ****** team because it will be apparent that it doesn't matter how hard you try.

My two older sons went through this in high school and I promise you that when my 13 yr old is ready for 9th grade I will have shopped around and talked to various schools to see how well they are coached.

I can handle my son being benched if the talent pool is deep. My son had to work his way to a starting position on a really good travel team last year.

I would start looking around at various schools. Don't let your son get stuck on a ****** baseball team as he may just give up baseball all together.
Good luck.

Roll with the punches. What is it teaching him if you just uproot to another school just because of this? I think it teaches him a poor way to handle it IMO. Parent him, teach him, guide him. I too have a Freshman this year and is riding the fence of possibly being asked to dress varsity. Frankly, not so sure I would be OK with it after seeing the very limited playing time the coach has given another Freshman in the past. I would just as soon have him play JV to get reps. He also plays on a highly competetive travel team and I would hate to see him go thru school ball with so few reps then go in to summer ball behind the 8-ball.

A tough decision. My 1st question, is the school you are thinking of transfering to a better Academic school. If not IMO I would not do it. My My Son is now a Sophmore at a Div 1 School. After 8th grade we made a decision to move from a School district that was Div 3. The Highschool was not strong Academically (I'm being kind) I have 4 kids & could not afford Private School so we moved. the risk was the new School had over 800 kids in the Freshman class. The competition for a spot on the team was going to be much more competitive. My Son played Freshman Ball last year because at his School thats what they do. Freshman play Freshman ball. He had a great year & will most likely play Varsity this Spring.

Bottom line is he may be better off at a private School. Just make sure you take in all the factors before you make the move. I would sit back and let this season play out. If he plays like you say he does he will get his chance.

If you believe the best lesson to teach your kid is that when he faces adversity to just hit the proverbial "reset" button and start over, then by all means switch schools.

Bad coaching isn't what's ruining this generation. But that's just my humble opinion.

I'm teaching my kid that if you find a team that pays more money (gets more playing time/position) then jump ASAP.

Your loyalty lies with the "paycheck." Life is unfair and favortism/politics are part of most jobs/occupations.

Might as well prepare him for the real world.

quote:

Originally posted by tradosaurus:
I'm teaching my kid that if you find a team that pays more money (gets more playing time/position) then jump ASAP.

Your loyalty lies with the "paycheck." Life is unfair and favortism/politics are part of most jobs/occupations.

Might as well prepare him for the real world.

Nice lesson. You're kid will be a pleasure to coach, I'm sure.

And I bet you'll be the first one want to meet with the coach when a soph. takes your son's spot when he's a senior. "He's earned it!" you'll say.

Again, coaches aren't the one's screwing up today's kids.

quote:

There's no such thing as a 16U showcase team. Showcase teams are 17/18U. If you expect your son to get college exposure playing 16U you're wasting your money. If you expect him to enjoy playing other quality 16U travel teams and develop into a potential 17/18U, that's what you will get.

Actually, there is quite a bit of exposure to be had on a top quality 16u showcase team at national events. There are many scouts at the 16u week in east cobb and other high profile events. Many contacts with players are made (through travel coaches) after/as a result of these events.

quote:

like I said I have no issue with OF but shouldnt he get a shot to tryout for 1st?

dolphindan1

Couple of things to consider. One if your son belongs on varsity then he will absolutely prove that as he begins to play JV. A true varsity player will dominate that division. So just have him play, support the idea that its not that big of a deal. The worst thing IMO is to let frustrations filter into your sons mind and thoughts about playing this year. The sooner you let it go, the sooner he will let it go...and then the sooner he could get back to just playing baseball. If he is good enough it will work itself out.

The second thing to understand is that HS and travel or showcase ball are 2 different animals for a coach. A HS has what they have for players. Travel you put together the team, choose players from a wider area to fit needs. In HS the coach has what he has. While your son might be the best first baseman, the team might need talented players in the OF. Coach might be short out there and wants your son to develop into a great outfielder. Either for this year or next. Best place maybe to learn how to play that position might be on JV until he could play it at a varsity level. Which might be sooner rather than later. If your son could play outfield, 1B and pitch he will be that much more valuable to him at the varsity level then just 1B and pitch.

Your attitude towards this will dictate his. Take a positive attitude, make it a challenge, look at it from a perspective that your son will be better for it as a player and a person if he just plays and produces. It will then all take care of itself.

In my best Allen Iverson voice... We're talkin about freshman? We're talkin about freshmen?

dolphindan1 - It many just be that your son is NEEDED in the OF and the varsity coach (that's who really runs the program) has other things in mind for your son in the future. Maybe the depth chart does not allow your son to be at 1st base this year. Maybe the varsity coach knows that your 6'1" lefty son will develop into a great CF and one more year at JV will be just what he needs. Just remember: Hit the ball and they will find a spot for you.

My advice is to get him to understand that this is a precursor for life. Buckle down, work harder and take your talent level to a point that it cannot be ignored. Use these challenges as logs on the fire to make him work harder. If you are the best it will always become evident. And most important of all, just let him have fun right now, it will become work soon enough.

Many players don't make the HS team as freshman... mine didn't
Right now you and your son are feeling slighted and his pride is hurt.But him playing JV as a freshman will not affect his baseball future,trust me.
Just continue to work on his game

I don't get what the issue is. Your kid plays where the coach tells him and he plays hard every play and be ready for practice. My kid didn't even get to sniff varsity until his junior year and he was a good ballplayer but he kept his mouth shut, played hard and prepared well in practice, paid his dues and got his innings on the freshman & JV teams and eventually got his shot to win a starting spot, but not before again having to prove himself yet again on the varsity level. He didn't get to play his best position when he first won the varsity spot but he just wanted on the field and quickly ended up in his best position on the field anyway. If he had any questions or concerns, he went to the coach. He was told by his coach to see him if he had any questions or issues so that was his responsibility to deal with it.

As a parent, it's your job to stay away from it and let the kid deal with it. Not once in my four years did I ever approach my sons coaches and discuss playing time or issues on the field. He did it from the 9th grade on. That's how you should handle it.

As for running away from the program to chase whatever it is he's chasing, or whatever it is you're chasing, it'll teach him nothing about learning to deal with the real world. This is the time to start thinking and doing for himself.

dolphindan1,

I understand your concerns and I don't disagree with your dislike for the situation.

You'll get good advice here about staying the course, toughing out adverse situations, finding a good summer program, work hard on personal fundamentals, etc.

I'll add this and I say this with all due respect...go back and read your post and I hope you'll see how bad you sound.

Trust me, I say this with experience. My first post was a doozy as well.

I think it might be a little much to have a HS freshman changing schools to play spring baseball.

JMO. Best of luck.

Lots of good advice going on here. Jus have him work his butt off and be the best JV player they have. If he is truly that good, player performance will get attention. It hard to argue when a kid can back it up with stats and results.

The transition from travel ball to HS ball is always difficult for Dad.

They are not the same. The quicker you learn, the more you will enjoy.

Ever think of moving to California where they have that new alternative league?

dolphindan1,

If I have learned anything from this board, it's to keep your son thinking positive, keep him working hard and it will pay off.

If the daddy ball is that bad move your son to another school.

Please listen to the folks on this board, and stop with all the showcase stuff , playing here playing there, 16u travel ball, do you really know who you are talking to on this board?

There is more help available to you and your son with your high school/ college journey than you can ever imagine, calm down....I'm sure your son is talented, most everyone on here has a talented son.

Play through it or move, but don't ruin this for your son with all the negative comments. He is just getting started ....stop whining.

"My first post was a doozy as well".

My first 10 posts were from a crazy man............

people do not realize that coches, hs, travel and college read this site----I
RUN A TRAVEL/SHOWCASE TEAM and after reading the op I would have reservations aboutinviting his son to play for our team---who needs this stuff lingering in the background--- been there done that

quote:

My son has been asked to play for 3 private schools

If I'm readint this correctly then it sounds like recruiting. While I don't know what state you live in I'm willing to bet there are rules against one school recruiting a player from another team. Is this truly the situation you want to get yourself in? Do you want your son to play for a coach who will totally ignore a rule? What if he does go to one of these schools and they recruit another player to replace him? It's not worth it just so you can have your ego stroked.

Like someone said - calm down and reread your post. It may shock you.

A couple of somewhat random observations:

-We are all confronted, at one point or another, by coaches, teachers, professors, and bosses who are not fair and open-minded. Okay, let’s call them for what they are… you know, morons. Dealing with them and nonetheless thriving is a life skill worth learning early on. I agree with many posters here that it is a little early to panic. All things being equal I would tell my son to buck up, kill 'em with kindness, and turn your haters into motivators (to quote Ellen DeGeneres). If, at the end of freshman year your son (not you) is disappointed and miserable, then you and your son can come up with plan “B.”

-I strongly second the recommendation that you must keep all of this very, very close to your vest. If you don't, the main collateral damage will be to your son.

--It's probably worth doing an inventory of how your presence, attitude, and behavior throughout this process might be one of the contributory factors in terms of why your son is, in your opinion, getting shafted. Maybe you've been an angel and haven't been overly involved with his baseball but, then again, maybe you've insinuated yourself into his baseball life a little too much. Please don't take offense at this line of thought—I only bring it up because I've seen (and feel free to chime in here, fellow HSBBW posters) sooo many parents of decent ballplayers who are a real turn--off (who are obnoxious know-it-alls, constantly displaying an undeserved sense of entitlement, always poking their nose into the coaches’ business and decisions, and generally screwing it up for their kid).

--Only switch schools if the (1) academics; (2) baseball; and (3) social scene are superior. All three areas--not just baseball. Don’t switch schools because your kid didn’t make the varsity as a freshman.

quote:

Originally posted by AntzDad:
Ever think of moving to California where they have that new alternative league?

Thanks for the laugh...

quote:

bacdorslider said....My first 10 posts were from a crazy man............

quote:

Originally posted by ironhorse:

quote:

Originally posted by tradosaurus:
I'm teaching my kid that if you find a team that pays more money (gets more playing time/position) then jump ASAP.

Your loyalty lies with the "paycheck." Life is unfair and favortism/politics are part of most jobs/occupations.

Might as well prepare him for the real world.

Nice lesson. You're kid will be a pleasure to coach, I'm sure.

And I bet you'll be the first one want to meet with the coach when a soph. takes your son's spot when he's a senior. "He's earned it!" you'll say.

Again, coaches aren't the one's screwing up today's kids.

You haven't been where I live evidently. Politics and favoritism are the norm.
I'm just trying to play the game and politic.

Oh and it works in real life too.

Well all I can tell you is every player I know has had issues with their high school situation. Whether it was playing time, coaches, or whatever you can think of. My best advice as a player who played JV from 9th-11th grade while dressing for Varsity as a junior, is the position you are playing doesn't matter too much. In high school I played every single position except CF, I may have caught a total of 10 games throughout my ENTIRE high school career. I was recruited as a catcher. Another thing as being a JV player who "thinks" and parents "think" he can play Varsity, hit the cover off of the ball on JV and eventually they will notice. My junior year it was a sophomore and I on JV and dressing for varsity. We hit 3 and 4 on JV and it didn't take long before our varsity coach really started paying some attention to the JV games. The next year the coach had us hitting 2 and 5 on Varsity and we did the same thing up there. The best thing about having the JV time is you have the need to prove what you are worth. I don't think there are going to be many times in your son's life where he is given the top job. Being able to earn it is what is going to matter.

Good luck to your son! I'm sure he will be playing at a high level on Varsity before you know it.

quote:

Originally posted by tradosaurus:
I'm teaching my kid that if you find a team that pays more money (gets more playing time/position) then jump ASAP.

Your loyalty lies with the "paycheck." Life is unfair and favortism/politics are part of most jobs/occupations.

Might as well prepare him for the real world.

Everything in life gets easier to do with more practice .... including complaining and quitting. Preparation for life incudes learning how to deal with tough situations and overcoming obstacles.

quote:

Originally posted by tradosaurus:
I'm teaching my kid that if you find a team that pays more money (gets more playing time/position) then jump ASAP.

Your loyalty lies with the "paycheck." Life is unfair and favortism/politics are part of most jobs/occupations.

Might as well prepare him for the real world.

Wow, I thought this was a joke the first time I read it.

Lots of great advice except maybe for one wacko. Wow.

Regarding your position of your son being slighted...

Please know that JV success, position in the line-up, BA, innings pitched, 15U stats, etc. have very little bearing on what the V coaches may see or be looking for. They also sometimes have little indication as to how much success he may have at higher levels. Some of the players with the best JV stats in our program have struggled considerably when brought up to the V level, even given every opportunity to perform. I'm not suggesting that your son will not have the success you think he will. Just don't expect those things to matter to V coaches.

Every level is starting over. Every level presents new challenges and obstacles. Have your son focus on being the best player he can be. Teach him to overcome those obstacles. The goal should be to “leave no doubt”. Create clear separation from his competitors.

Even if your scenario was true where two coaches and an AD have kids in the program, and you were truly being cheated with these kids having the leg up, that still leaves 6 spots to be earned. That is where the focus should be. Just another obstacle. Just another opportunity. Then, the next is to make sure you are being the best teammate to ALL of the other players on the team, including the aforementioned three.

My son started V as a freshman. He has turned out to be a very good V player but if anything is lacking, it is the fact that he hasn’t been pushed down often enough to make him even hungrier, more motivated and more mentally prepared to handle setbacks. Part of me wishes he had been sent down that year for those reasons.
Also, his soph year, he brought up the idea of transferring to a neighboring school so that he could play with a bigger, better program. He is very competitive and he also was concerned about exposure. There were way too many other good things about his current school and I wanted to instill that he should be the one to affect change in bad situations instead of running away until he found something better. The following year, we swept that bigger, better team. He was very instrumental... and very glad he didn’t change schools.
Besides, there are way more important reasons to consider when pondering a change of school. Does he have life long friends at his current school? Is it safe and academically sound? Is he well adjusted there?

Please also know that your words, actions, attitude and body language will carry over to your son. Whether you are saying anything to him or not, I’m quite sure he is picking up on where you currently stand on this. Think through what the correct “bigger picture” lessons you want your son coming away with.

quote:

Originally posted by bacdorslider:
"My first post was a doozy as well".

My first 10 posts were from a crazy man............

We reeled you back in...



dolphindan1: Welcome! I went through the same thing with my son as a freshman. I couldn't understand why he wasn't already on varsity. Fortunately, I bit my tongue, and kept my mouth shut, and by the end of the year he was called up and playing varsity. Many coaches don't want any freshman on varsity. I just didn't realize it at the time.

Sit tight and encourage him to do everything he can to make them have to move him to varsity.

quote:

Originally posted by tradosaurus:
I'm teaching my kid that if you find a team that pays more money (gets more playing time/position) then jump ASAP.

Your loyalty lies with the "paycheck." Life is unfair and favortism/politics are part of most jobs/occupations.

Tradosaurus,

I'm close to figuring out who you are. I've got it narrowed down to two people. You are either Cam Newton's father or Lebron James mother.

When I see orignal posts like the one here I think back to a kid who played at our high school as a senior when my son was a soph. The kid was a stud starting in LL. In middle school and 16U ball he was somewhat dominant.

When the kid was a freshman the dad was ripped he didn't make varsity. He transferred the kid to another school soph year where he got hammered when he pitched and lost his spot in the rotation. The kid threw 85 with no movement. The ball tended to leave the infield a lot faster than it left the mound.

The dad groused about his kid getting screwed. Junior year the kid transferred to another school. The same thing occurred as the previous year. The dad continued to complain no one could see his kid was a stud.

The kid transferred back to our high school senior year. He got hammered in three outings and demoted from the rotation. The dad complained and complained. He claimed his son was getting looks from major conference D1's through camps and showcases. Even after NLI week came and went he was telling us about the offers.

Then the kid confronted the coach about mound time. It was not pretty. The coach is a bit intense. That night the #1 pitcher got in a car accident finishing his season. Rather than buck up and prove himself the kid quit the team leaving it short a pitcher to show the coach. The kid might have made a difference if he could keep the ball down. He was going to get another start. He quit on the team. The team dropped out of first.

Wherever this kid was trying to get to college ball the word got around the kid was a quitter and the father a nutcase. The kid walked on one year at a local JuCo. He was not asked back the second year. The word was the JuCo didn't need the drama.

quote:

Originally posted by RJM:
Everything in life gets easier to do with more practice .... including complaining and quitting. Preparation for life incudes learning how to deal with tough situations and overcoming obstacles.

Very true... quitting is not a quality that should be taught IMO, and it can turn into a nasty habit. Even worse... it could be contagious .

I would love to know what part of the country the OP is residing in... it may sum things up a bit. Did the school have a FROSH team? Also, the OP's son made the JV team as an eighth grader as well as his freshman year. Not a bad start to his "HS career" so far if you ask me.

FWIW - if you transfer for the purpose of athletics, most (almost all) school districts will consider you ineligible for the first year in the new school. Considering your son made the roster his 8th and 9th grade, you would be considered ineligible to play baseball for one year if you transferred schools where I am from. There are many other reasons that a student athlete becomes ineligible to play... but this reason may be the most relevant to the current situation. May want to re-think the JV gig he already has going for him.

quote:

Originally posted by biggerpapi:

quote:

Originally posted by tradosaurus:
I'm teaching my kid that if you find a team that pays more money (gets more playing time/position) then jump ASAP.

Your loyalty lies with the "paycheck." Life is unfair and favortism/politics are part of most jobs/occupations.

Might as well prepare him for the real world.

Wow, I thought this was a joke the first time I read it.

Wait. Let me get this straight.

A coach can seek better opportunities that pay more and gives him more exposures.

A supervisor/manager/CEO can jump ship for a higher paying opportunity.

But a player has to stick it out, gut it out, put up with an environment he is not comfortable with?

Believe me, my son understands that once he signs up for a season he will finish it out. My 2nd older son signed up to play JV football his junior yr in high school. He practiced just as hard and did just as good as any of the other receivers. But the recievers coach had a son who was a reciever and received all the playing time. My son stuck it out but since he only got in 2 plays each game he decided not to pursue football his senior yr because the message that was sent to him was no matter how hard you try you will not play. I will do whatever I can for my son not to play for that school.

I understand being a player in high school and college doesn't give one much flexibility in moving around but it doesn't mean I shouldn't do as much politicking as I can before my son reaches high school to get the best program so I don't have regrets later.

quote:

Originally posted by PGStaff:

quote:

Originally posted by tradosaurus:
I'm teaching my kid that if you find a team that pays more money (gets more playing time/position) then jump ASAP.

Your loyalty lies with the "paycheck." Life is unfair and favortism/politics are part of most jobs/occupations.

Tradosaurus,

I'm close to figuring out who you are. I've got it narrowed down to two people. You are either Cam Newton's father or Lebron James mother.

Ummmm not hardly.

You don't get a Mechanical Engineering degree for being stupid or lazy.

I just don't see things through rose colored glasses.

quote:

Originally posted by ironhorse:

quote:

Originally posted by tradosaurus:
I'm teaching my kid that if you find a team that pays more money (gets more playing time/position) then jump ASAP.

Your loyalty lies with the "paycheck." Life is unfair and favortism/politics are part of most jobs/occupations.

Might as well prepare him for the real world.

Nice lesson. You're kid will be a pleasure to coach, I'm sure.

And I bet you'll be the first one want to meet with the coach when a soph. takes your son's spot when he's a senior. "He's earned it!" you'll say.

Again, coaches aren't the one's screwing up today's kids.

Thank you. Actually my son is a pleasure to coach as can be attested by his hard nosed travel team coach. He is quiet in the dugout and is well-mannered. He doesn't throw tantrums like many kids.

If the sophomore is a better player I have no problem. If the sophomore is the coaches son or one of the school board administrators son I would find another school (in the same district and conference if possible) and hope my son would get an opportunity to prove himself.

Like I said before, favoritism in my area, is off the charts in some schools.

quote:

Originally posted by tradosaurus:
If the sophomore is a better player I have no problem. If the sophomore is the coach’s son or one of the school board administrators son I would find another school (in the same district and conference if possible) and hope my son would get an opportunity to prove himself.

What if the sophomore was better and was the child of a coach or administrator?

quote:

Originally posted by bballdad2016:
FWIW - if you transfer for the purpose of athletics, most (almost all) school districts will consider you ineligible for the first year in the new school. Considering your son made the roster his 8th and 9th grade, you would be considered ineligible to play baseball for one year if you transferred schools where I am from. There are many other reasons that a student athlete becomes ineligible to play... but this reason may be the most relevant to the current situation. May want to re-think the JV gig he already has going for him.

Transfer rules differ from state to state. In the state my kids played some of the privates were not part of the PIAA and therefore not subject to the rules. There are also ways around the transfer rules. The easiest is "I decided to live with my dad." Dad gets an apartment in the desired school district. There was one basketball power we used to joke they would pick up the boundary road and move it for the right recruit.

RJM - Yes they do differ from state to state, and there is always a loop hole . I am not sure where dolphindad1 is located geographically, so it will be up to him to do the research. And for his sons sake, I hope he research's it correctly. I have only dealt with NY, VA and CA.

Funny about your moving boundaries out there in New England, we have the same problem out here... lol. Darn roads need to be nailed down with RR Spikes I guess.

You know there are always those certain people who are always victimes no matter what goes on in their life. They fail because they don't get a fair shot or they don't know the right people or whatever. You always hear about their "limited" chances in games but you never hear about how they worked in practice.

I coach football and you have more than one receiver on the field at all times - even in a power run attack formation there will always be two TEs. So if the coaches son got one of the spots then there should be another one that other kids could compete for.

You do make a valid point in that in the real world people are allowed to go seek a better opportunity and therefore by de facto a kid should be as well. Only argument I can come up with against that is playing time on a HS team is not the same as being paid for doing a job. There is a huge difference between enjoying (or should enjoy) a sport and providing for a family or yourself.

quote:

Originally posted by tradosaurus:

Like I said before, favoritism in my area, is off the charts in some schools.

Really. What part of East Texas are you in?

To OP:

Last season my soph son watched as his freshman brother and another soph were "moved ahead of him to the varisty" He was a better pitcher, and I just could not figure out why HC would do this. I asked my son if this bothered him and he said, no it does not, but I'm sure it did a bit.

I asked HC one night about the moves....I'm sure at the time I tried to be smooth, but HC new what I was driving at.

HC coach asks me if the move bothered my soph boy or did it bother me?

He responds with, "as you know we have some pitchers dinged up on the varsity so I need a couple of arms (mops ups) so I don't have to keep burning through varsity pitching to complete games, until the dinged up varsity pitchers get back in time for the district games.

I said "ok" and he says I have plans for ( my soph son) and I want him pitching every 5 days on the JV team.

Well as the soph and the freshman brother were "sitting" and charting for the varsity, my soph was pitching JV...... every 5 days......

Fast foward to this year, the soph is now a jr, my soph is now a jr and my freshman is a soph..... out of the three guess who is pitching first on the varsity ...... leave the HS coaching to the HS coach...he knows more than you as the parent do.....I will never asks the HS coach another question about playing time or his intentions, and I wish I had not asked the first time.

Some of you may remember my posts last year, my son's junior year. Due to not playing on new high school coaches summer team my son was cut from Varsity. This board raised the possibility it wasn't the coach but his talent rightfully so as the situation seemed pretty far fetched.

My son sucked it up, played JV, really enjoyed the group of boys on the team, kept his nose down and focused on summer ball with his terrific club team. He was miserable to live with but we got through it.

The coach lasted one season....I never complained to either the coach or the school. I allowed my son some time to vent and joined him but then we moved forward. Coach got fired, my son is now deciding between 2 and potentially a 3d D1 offer and will have played varsity just one year.

To the OP, your son is a freshman, relax. High School isn't going to effect his future in baseball especially at a school where a freshman realistically expects to make varsity. That's not the level of competition college coaches make time to go see.

Don't teach you kid that you pack up your toys and go home when you don't like the way things go. That's not life. Although I would sincerely have preferred we not have to live through the example of life not always being fair that we did last year, this year now that things have worked out as he had hoped, he is much the better for it, and not on the baseball field he always had that covered, as a person and with life skills relating to not quitting and how to work through bad situations and still come out on top. How to deal with disappointment, etc. We never entertained leaving, we spent countless hours and sleepless nights discussing how the only way to prove how wrong it was is to overcome it.

I love to walk by the old coach in the hallway now. I just smile. My son is way ahead in the game of life too.

PGStaff,

Do you not understand that you are not capable of holding a conversation with a mechanical engineer?

When will you ever learn?

quote:

Originally posted by SultanofSwat:
In my best Allen Iverson voice... We're talkin about freshman? We're talkin about freshmen?

My sentiments exactly. I guess playing varsity baseball as a freshman in other parts of the country is more common than here? It takes a special player (OR...a school lacking talent!?) to get a shot at varsity in our area in 9th grade. The HS league's in our region generally have 1 or 2 frosh players on the rosters per league, not per team. The smaller schools tend to elevate younger players much faster than the large school divisions.

I understand your frustration regarding "Daddy-Ball". Are the sons of the Coach/AD also freshman? If that's the case, and your son is truly more talented, then I would think about other alternatives for my son. However, if these kids are older, I'd have to assume that they've already paid the price and served their time on the Frosh/JV team?

Lastly, if HS ball in your area doesn't fit your family's situation you can always move to Southern California and sign up for the ABCL Spring League. All joking aside, good luck to your son this year, I hope it all works out.

Papi, if the one thinks he can "work" PG into doing something advantageous for him they could talk! It would be rotten if the first thought as your feet hit he floor in the morning was what can I get for nothing today!

quote:

Originally posted by bballdad2016:

quote:

Originally posted by tradosaurus:
If the sophomore is a better player I have no problem. If the sophomore is the coach’s son or one of the school board administrators son I would find another school (in the same district and conference if possible) and hope my son would get an opportunity to prove himself.

What if the sophomore was better and was the child of a coach or administrator?

Still don't have a problem although that combination is very rare, IMO.

Of course, everybody knows that it's very rare for a sophomore to be a good player and a child of a coach.

I'm sorry, I guess I've had just about enough bull@@@t for today. I'd better go to another site for a while.

quote:

Originally posted by tradosaurus:
Wait. Let me get this straight.

A coach can seek better opportunities that pay more and gives him more exposures.

A supervisor/manager/CEO can jump ship for a higher paying opportunity.

But a player has to stick it out, gut it out, put up with an environment he is not comfortable with?

Quite the contrary.
The vast majority of the time, a coach, supervisor, manager or CEO will not get that higher pay opportunity UNTIL they have shown the ability to "stick it out, gut it out, put up with an environment they are not comfortable with" (among other things).

That's the whole point.

That said, I'm sure you'll argue otherwise as to what you see in your world.

quote:

Originally posted by biggerpapi:
Of course, everybody knows that it's very rare for a sophomore to be a good player and a child of a coach.

I'm sorry, I guess I've had just about enough bull@@@t for today. I'd better go to another site for a while.

Yeah, it's getting pretty deep in doodoo isn't it?

quote:

You don't get a Mechanical Engineering degree for being stupid or lazy.

I just don't see things through rose colored glasses.

Tradosaurus,

Are you saying Cam Newton's dad and Lebron James Mom, are stupid and lazy?

I have a degree too. I don't think I'm all that lazy, but it has been proven many times that I am stupid. We all have worn rose colors glasses at some point. IMO, Those that won't admit it are actually wearing "blinders"!

I'm positive you are extremely intelligent and hard working. Having a degree in Mechanical Engineering is a great accomplishment. However, does a Mechanical Engineering degree help someone become the worlds best parent or a more knowlegable baseball person? My comments about Cam Newton and Lebron James were an obvious joke referring to your comments.

quote:

I'm teaching my kid that if you find a team that pays more money (gets more playing time/position) then jump ASAP.

Your loyalty lies with the "paycheck." Life is unfair and favortism/politics are part of most jobs/occupations.

Might as well prepare him for the real world.

Believe me I didn't think you were really Cam Newton's dad or Lebron James mom. Sorry if that somehow offended you.

quote:

I'm teaching my kid that if you find a team that pays more money (gets more playing time/position) then jump ASAP.

Your loyalty lies with the "paycheck." Life is unfair and favortism/politics are part of most jobs/occupations.

Might as well prepare him for the real world.

Trade....you really don't make sense. If you are supposed to change situations to make it best for yourself rather then work it out, what will you tell your uneducated, stay at home to raise kids daughters when their husbands leave to chase a younger, prettier, richer woman and leave them wishing they could support themselves? It was his right to "upgrade" his life?

If you teach your kids to cut and run as a basic survival instinct, you must be prepared when it happens to you as well.

quote:

Originally posted by calisportsfan:

quote:

I'm teaching my kid that if you find a team that pays more money (gets more playing time/position) then jump ASAP.

Your loyalty lies with the "paycheck." Life is unfair and favortism/politics are part of most jobs/occupations.

Might as well prepare him for the real world.

Trade....you really don't make sense. If you are supposed to change situations to make it best for yourself rather then work it out, what will you tell your uneducated, stay at home to raise kids daughters when their husbands leave to chase a younger, prettier, richer woman and leave them wishing they could support themselves? It was his right to "upgrade" his life?

If you teach your kids to cut and run as a basic survival instinct, you must be prepared when it happens to you as well.

Methinks I struck a nerve with you somewhere in the past.

My daughters will be more "educated" than most girls I assure you.

And last time I checked Adultery is a "Thou shall not...." compared to jumping a sinking ship whether it be a job or a team.

My kids will go into marriage with the understanding that divorce is not an option so pick wisely (oops I meant me pick wisely for them.)

Um, where has the OP gone?

Vanished?

quote:

Originally posted by YoungGunDad:
Um, where has the OP gone?

Vanished?

Probably didn't get the response he/she wanted. The poster may have been looking for confirmation on bailing.

Wow, there is a lot of really good advice in this thread.

I am bothered by "Daddy Ball" and the OP presented a scenario where that might actually be happening to his son's detriment. That said, I couldn't agree more with the seemingly hundreds of posts urging head-down persistence and a "show 'em" attitude to the point where his player's abilities can no longer be ignored. I also think the advice NOT to jump ship unless there are many more reasons than just baseball (and especially after one setback, as a freshman) to move is really sage advice. Besides, if this coach is really as bad a "Daddy Ball" coach as he is being portrayed, he probably won't be around long.

I do empathize a bit with the OP if for no other reason than I am the father of a freshman, too (though at a 4A school). Last year I was asked to be a member of the coaching staff at his school, and have seen all of the players he will be competing with, and I have my opinions about where my son stands (probably formed while looking through somewhat rose-colored glasses), but I have tried hard to NOT discuss those opinions with any of the other coaches unless they ask me directly for my opinion about my son. And I have already had the talk with him about having to leave NO DOUBT about being better than an older player, as well as the idea that it is far better to play JV (or frosh ball) and play regularly than to play V and sit.

In the end, it doesn't matter that much in a player's freshman year. Give it time, have your son work hard, and re-assess if he does all the right things and it doesn't get better.

Edgar - Agree a good thread despite the digressions.

RJM has the Quote of the Thread, "Everything in life gets easier to do with more practice .... including complaining and quitting. Preparation for life incudes learning how to deal with tough situations and overcoming obstacles."

quote:

Originally posted by RJM:

quote:

Originally posted by YoungGunDad:
Um, where has the OP gone?

Vanished?

Probably didn't get the response he/she wanted. The poster may have been looking for confirmation on bailing.

Sorry...i havent left or bailed and i got plenty of good advice....i work nightshift so i have been asleep all day....i will post a response when i get to work....i appreciate all the great comments....and yes re-read my post and did not mean it as whining and moaning....sorry it came across that way...i am truly not that kind of person

Stick it out. HS baseball goes by so quickly. Trust me on that one. Better for your son to face this "HS politic adversity" with a supportive dad/mom as opposed to facing the politics in college - away from home and supportive family. Politics, thinking you are better than someone playing ahead of you happens to every player eventually and either as a player you will work harder and be motivated or give up. Baseball politics = a great training ground for life. Nothing motivates my son more than being told "not good enough" - he'll work his butt off to prove them wrong.

As a parent, I got pretty worked up over HS play time, and "is he on JV or varsity" and now looking back having a Soph in college(seeing how much time school takes compared to HS, the stresses he faces trying to balance school and ball and this is D3) I REALLY wish I would have taken a chill pill for HS ball.

I repeat - ENJOY every moment of HS ball - they grow up fast.

Ok...I am back...I have read and re-read every post on here several times...couple comments...I am not trying to be a victim nor am I trying to make my son a victim...not at all..also the fact that my parenting skills were called in to question is kinda hurtful...lastly I have not and will not complain, cry or moan at the field about playing time or about any other player...

Now back to the situation...I have talked to my son today and he told me he is fine with it now and he will just go dominate on JV...I told him that he needs to work hard and not let my feelings get involved in how he plays...let the situation drive you to be the best player on the field...If he does that then he wont have any regrets...

I posted on this site hoping to get advice on the situation...I did for the most part...I may have not been clear in my OP or was I trying to victimize myself and my son...we had a week of tryouts for Varsity, JV and Bteam all three together...My son was never allowed to tryout for any team for the position he is best at, even after the coach told them to go to the positions they wanted to tryout for...that was a red flag to me...and yes the coaches sons that are in his grade play that position...thats why I am considering moving him, he will never get a shot their no matter how well he does..Also both made V/JV and one will now play OF and one at first...So in reality as a Lefty he only has 2 more positions to win as these kids will sit on V and play on JV. He will win one with no problems...I guess its a pricipal type thing...

as far as the the Private school is concerned he will absolutely have a better shot at college there...the one I am considering has had 100% of their seniors the last 2 years go to college...that says alot to me...He understands that baseball will end at some point it does for every player to ever play the game so he knows grades and going to college are the 1st priority...

and yes its not a great baseball school...the young talent is solid though...You have 3 9th and 1 8th grader make V/JV this year...and 1 more that easily could of...Its not a baseball mecca thats for sure...LOL

The Bteam coach and JV pitching coach came and talked to me today and said they were shocked that my son wasnt on the list..said the same as yall dont let it affect me and to make sure my son continues to work hard and to be honest those kids probably wont see but an inning or 2 on varsity...

Like I said I am not a complainer. I understand how the system works but as a dad wanted to see if I was doing or could do something more to help my son...thats all nothing more...I coach high school basketball so I understand how parents are and I never nor will I ever be one of those parents publicly...

Again I appreciate all the comments...Thanks

dophindan1 I sent you a PM. In case you don't know where to check for PM's look at the toolbar at the top where it has "go, new, find, notify, tools, reply" and at the far right should be a blinking PM button. Click on it and it will take you to my message. I only put this because most new people don't know where to check.

Thanks

quote:

...and yes the coaches sons that are in his grade play that position

It doesn't matter what position your son plays in high school as long as he eventually works his way into the lineup and enjoys playing. There's a 95% chance if he eventually is recruited for college ball it will come from his travel team. Playing a second position is good for demonstrating versatility when getting recruited.

I've been thinking about this for a couple of days as I'm not too familiar with 8th graders playing JV or V baseball.

To me JV or V means 10-12 grade. Right?

So if there are so many 8th graders at this school that are Varsity quality, does that speak highly on the 8th graders or poorly on the 11-12 graders? Or even the program?

Just a question.

quote:

Originally posted by biggerpapi:
I've been thinking about this for a couple of days as I'm not too familiar with 8th graders playing JV or V baseball.

To me JV or V means 10-12 grade. Right?

So if there are so many 8th graders at this school that are Varsity quality, does that speak highly on the 8th graders or poorly on the 11-12 graders? Or even the program?

Just a question.

The varsity is pretty bad...The JV is pretty good...sad thing is 3 very good players left to go to rival public school...much better program...didnt move or anything but somehow woked the system to be able to transfer...My son as an 8th grader started every game on JV last year...like I said was #2 pitcher and hit 3rd in lineup...the entire JV last year was 7th and 8th graders and 1 or 2 9th that didnt play and they won a little over half their games too...honestly he could cut all but 4 of the Varsity and bring up all the younger kids and be more competitive but he wont. The coach will play by mostly senority...lot of seniors graduate. The Varsity will be alot of Juniors and Sophmores next year

I was gonna bring this up also but gotta a little nervous about doing so...not criticising at all...My sons 2 hour practices consist of standing in a line in LF as a coach in RF hits fly balls....thats it for 2 hours...once a week they do bullpen, sometimes twice. and once a week they do hitting stations with no coaches supervision (Cages, tee, soft toss, and one other station)...players throwing to players in a cage so you can imagine how that goes...My son may get 5 good cuts 1 day a week...thats the JV and Varsity practices as the coach runs both and they practice together...He is bored and frustrated

JV had different coaches last year but Varsity coach helped

After reading this thread and your comments I would suggest that you have your son transfer to another program. I think it would better for everyone if you did. Just make sure before you make a decision on where he is going to transfer that the new program fits your needs for your son.

quote:

Originally posted by Coach_May:
After reading this thread and your comments I would suggest that you have your son transfer to another program. I think it would better for everyone if you did. Just make sure before you make a decision on where he is going to transfer that the new program fits your needs for your son.

Thanks....sarcasm is pretty subtle....but to respond to ur statement.....u are right i will make **** sure its the best choice for my son....cause the choice he was given by the school district sucks

quote:

Originally posted by dolphindan1:

quote:

Originally posted by Coach_May:
After reading this thread and your comments I would suggest that you have your son transfer to another program. I think it would better for everyone if you did. Just make sure before you make a decision on where he is going to transfer that the new program fits your needs for your son.

Thanks....sarcasm is pretty subtle....but to respond to ur statement.....u are right i will make **** sure its the best choice for my son....cause the choice he was given by the school district sucks

I admire your courage. This is not about us but you and your child baseball experience. It's a painful lesson why we should do our due diligence before high school to minimize issues such as what you (and others) are going through.

quote:

Originally posted by dolphindan1:

Thanks....sarcasm is pretty subtle....but to respond to ur statement.....u are right i will make **** sure its the best choice for my son....cause the choice he was given by the school district sucks

Colt McCoy's dad, a high school coach here in Texas, came and spoke at my church and said something that struck a nerve with me. His advice for fathers was:

"Prepare your child for the path, not the path for your child."

Kinda seems to me like it addresses one of the main reasons this country is heading off course.

quote:

Originally posted by RJM:

quote:

...and yes the coaches sons that are in his grade play that position

It doesn't matter what position your son plays in high school as long as he eventually works his way into the lineup and enjoys playing. There's a 95% chance if he eventually is recruited for college ball it will come from his travel team. Playing a second position is good for demonstrating versatility when getting recruited.

I agree with RJM on this one. Seems the focus should be getting on the field somewhere at this age vs. where do I want to play.

Maybe since my son's primary position is catcher it is me, but I actually enjoy watching my son play some OF or 1B. Nice little break and I can tell you my son would say he enjoys the break as well.

True story that I am sure many of the regulars on this board are familiar with. Kid from Corpus Christi area. Word is never caught a single inning at his HS one of the top 4As in the state (course he is such a stud he played SS and pitched) but he is a top 20 draft eligible catcher and going to Texas to catch.

Next year if my then freshman son has the opportunity to get on V he won't care what position it is. He wants to catch but understands his summer team is what is important there.

dolphin, don't let these old farts here get to you. Many, maybe most, frosh Dads have the same questions as you. I think it's a natural process that will sort itself out.

Good luck. Relax.

quote:

Originally posted by biggerpapi:
I've been thinking about this for a couple of days as I'm not too familiar with 8th graders playing JV or V baseball.

To me JV or V means 10-12 grade. Right?

So if there are so many 8th graders at this school that are Varsity quality, does that speak highly on the 8th graders or poorly on the 11-12 graders? Or even the program?

Just a question.

Understand the thought here but sometimes money matters!

In our city there is no middle school baseball so the 8th graders have to try out for JV at the High Schools. My son's school graduated two players that were Major league Allstars last year (the only high school in the country that can make that claim), won the State Championship in the largest class, finished in the top 30 in 3-4 National polls.

They usually take anywhere 5-7 players per year and it is considered to be a huge honer to make the club. The JV is something like 64-7 over the past 4 years and these 8th graders get to be absorbed into the program by practicing and watching games from the bench. Only the very best will actually start or make significant contributions.

About half of those kids would be 3 or 4 year starters in about 2/3 of the area schools and most won't nail down varsity positions until their Jr. year. That assume's they don't get passed out by some younger hotshot by then. When that happens they have to decide if they will ride the bench, transfer or quit.

Short of abuse, I really don't think transferring solves anything at all. It doesn't provide the life skills most of us need to succeed in life. You usually can't quit a job when the boss passes you up for a promotion but must work through it as just one example but staying, putting your head down and working applies in all area's of life every day.

Nothing is better then my son now, having landed on top and proved doubters wrong beyond any doubt after being cut from varsity as a junior and now headed to a D1 of his choosing. Like a previous poster mentioned, teach your son to let adversity **** him off so that he is completely dedicated to proving people wrong. Make it work for him! The tools you will provide in the long run exceed anything manipulating a better HIGH SCHOOL baseball experience can provide.

Regarding position, I doubt many people's kids play their "best" or projected position in high school. The best kids are fit onto the field and my son plays short stop in high school when he has never seen an inning there on his club team! Why? Not because he can't field the position but because another is better but on hs team that isn't the case. He won't see short stop in college either but honestly, his ability to play where they need him is nothing but helpful as colleges wonder how a player fits their program.

Good Luck and don't obsess over this...honestly, sit back and enjoy it and understand he is too young for you to lose any sleep over but not too long for you to teach.

Serious question about middle schoolers that play high school ball, since it doesnt happen here in St Louis.

Dont you guys have 13 U or 14 U ball that they can be playing instead? Kids around here play select ball or whatever you want to call it instead. I mean some of the boys were probably good enough to play on the freshmen or JV team, but they just didnt do it here. The summer teams started playing leagues or tournemants in late March.

Also, of these boys play high school ball, where do they play when the season ends in mid May? Again, all the teams here start way earlier and it would be too late to get on one of those teams.

Dolphin-
Ignore the smart *** comments by some. you will get to know a little about personalities here soon enough. Lots of people are well intended but remember we don't know you, your son or high school at all. We've been given a couple of one sided paragraphs to go by and no one here is an expert on your situation so take all comments accordingly. You've been told to make lemonade out of lemons by some and embrace the adversity learn that life is not fair don't cut and run, work hard and prove yourself and they will have no choice but to play him. BULL!!! NICE FANTASY!!! Let's get to the real world. Focus on summer ball. that is where the real opportunities will come. If the coach is unethical and wants his kid to play no effort by your son will change that. Some poor coaches remain for years or at least long enough to outlast a kids two or three year high school career. Staying the course and beating your head against a brick wall to prove you can survive adversity. How noble. Would you stay in a job with poor management little to no chance for advancement to prove you can take it and become a so called stronger person if you had other opportunities and options. Yes sometimes you have to fight through stay the course and it does make you stronger and more prepared and sometimes your just a martyr taking a bullet for nothing. Make a calm unemotional well thought out decision. Enlist the advice of those who know better than we do and know more about your situation. Scout the private schools for a good baseball fit. Coaching character players winning and advancement. Remember you son will spend 99 percent of his high school days off the field. it must be a good fit socially or he will hate it. Last, it must be his decision alone and academics must come first and be most important because statistics tell us that I can bet my house no one is going to pay your son the play baseball in the end. Let us know how it works and best of luck

Speaking of smart*** comments:

I get the feeling some of these people go to the barbershop after games and harrangue the coach when he comes in for coffee.

quote:

Originally posted by Mizzoubaseball:
Serious question about middle schoolers that play high school ball, since it doesnt happen here in St Louis.

Dont you guys have 13 U or 14 U ball that they can be playing instead? Kids around here play select ball or whatever you want to call it instead. I mean some of the boys were probably good enough to play on the freshmen or JV team, but they just didnt do it here. The summer teams started playing leagues or tournemants in late March.

Also, of these boys play high school ball, where do they play when the season ends in mid May? Again, all the teams here start way earlier and it would be too late to get on one of those teams.

Yep we have it. But they won't join until after the school season is over. Pretty competitive too.

During the summer a lot of schools will enter Legion Ball with 20 man rosters and players will play on both the travel team and the Legion games when they can. Sometimes the Legion game has 17 kids and others 11. They play about 20 games from the 2nd half of June through early August mostly during the week. If your kid is maxing out they can play 40+ games in the 7-8 weeks after school ends. Almost everyone takes 3+ weeks off in August until after labor Day. Fall Ball is about 6 weeks until late October with about 10-12 games.

Isn't coffee kinda gross at a barbershop?

quote:

Originally posted by ironhorse:

quote:

Originally posted by dolphindan1:

Thanks....sarcasm is pretty subtle....but to respond to ur statement.....u are right i will make **** sure its the best choice for my son....cause the choice he was given by the school district sucks

Colt McCoy's dad, a high school coach here in Texas, came and spoke at my church and said something that struck a nerve with me. His advice for fathers was:

"Prepare your child for the path, not the path for your child."

Kinda seems to me like it addresses one of the main reasons this country is heading off course.

Easy words for a High school coach whose son was very good.

If I was Colt McCoy's Dad I would have tried to prepare him for any path other than the Cleveland Browns.

Parents can manipulate their children's situation but ultimately not their talent. High School is the time to let them stand on their own feet.

The words of Colt McCoy's father aren't really easy as I've lived them. It's a brutal path but my son and I are proof it works out without parent meddling if it's meant to be. This time last year I thought his dreams were ending but by letting it play out, he ends with the last laugh and a great lesson.

Bottom line, get on the best club team you can with a coach who knows how to help his team be seen and be placed on college teams, that's all you need beyond talent and effort.

Last thing, although as a high school freshman I think it's way too soon to worry about high school ball, it's not too early to get on the right club team. Spend your time and energy doing that.

I was not being sarcastic. I was giving my advice just like everyone else is giving you advice. That is why you posted right? You wanted to hear what others thought right? So why did I say I think you should transfer your son?

You believe the coaches are playing Daddy Ball. You don't think they gave you son a fair shake. You don't believe he can get a fair shake at this program. That is what I got out of your posts. So why would you leave him there?

Now if I was his coach and you felt that way I would want you to transfer your son. I wouldn't want you in my program. And I wouldn't want a kid who was getting that stuff poured down his throat at home from the person he trusts the most. Is that wrong of a coach to feel that way?

If the coach could come on here and give his side of the story and the team mates of your son both JV and Varsity maybe we would have both sides of this story. Maybe it would all check out just as you say. But really for your own peace of mind just transfer him out of this BS program and give him a fresh start and you as well. Is that being sarcastic?

I have been around this block more than one time in the last 25 years. Your doing the coach right, your son and yourself by leaving. Now if you can go to the AD and get the coached fired, get the HC position and make all the decisions you believe should be made by all means stick around. Otherwise do everyone a good one and transfer. A little sarcasm there. A whole lot of straight truth. Wether you like it or not.

quote:

Originally posted by tradosaurus:

quote:

Originally posted by ironhorse:

Colt McCoy's dad, a high school coach here in Texas, came and spoke at my church and said something that struck a nerve with me. His advice for fathers was:

"Prepare your child for the path, not the path for your child."

Kinda seems to me like it addresses one of the main reasons this country is heading off course.

Easy words for a High school coach whose son was very good.

So principles change based on your kid's athletic ability?

Thou shalt not covet is easier if you're wife is hot? What if your neighbors wife is hotter?

Principles should stay the same.

This has been a very interesting post to say the least. I believe you honestly want to do what is best for your son. That is admirable. I will give you an honest take from both a coach and a father.
First,I do not believe that honesty builds character..it reveals it. It sounds like your son has enjoyed great success and was thought highly enough of by a coaching staff to keep him as an 8th grader. Something I would think does not happen much. Now, faced with adversity, you are telling your son to blame it on the coaches. Even if you are not telling him directly, he will know how you feel. You are now telling him to run from this adversity and take the easy way out.
Second, you said that the JV program is good but you criticize the way the team practices. Maybe they are learning more than you give them credit for. Maybe the staff wanted to see how your son dealt with some adversity to see if he had the makeup to be a varsity player.
Third, why are you at every practice? Drop him off and go home. He is at practice so he can become a better ball player. It is not for you, it is not about you. It is about your son becoming a young man. If he is bothered by something, let him tell you. You appear to enjoy your son's summer team, let him work through this a little and then have a nice summer.
My first year as a varsity assistant, my younger brother was on the JV team. I felt he was pretty darn good but he wasn't starting or playing that much. I did not say a word. My advice to him, play as hard as you can, practice harder than everyone else and be ready when you get your chance. He got his shot and never left the field. He went on to play pro ball. He learned that things will not always go your way and you have to work hard and be patient. I will tell you as a high school coach I do not pay much attention to summer stats. I follow my boys but I judge them by what I see. What are you showing these high school coaches? Are they seeing a dad judging them and undermining anything they do? Are they seeing a hard working kid that wants to be better? I am not trying to judge because I am not there, but again I would say drop him off and stay home and see how he handles it. If you are not capable of doing that then I would listen to Coach May's sound advice and move on. It would be best for everyone at that point.

As I start my due diligence this year and next scoping out high school baseball programs in preparation for my son's entrance into high school I will look at how the coaching staff teaches the kids.
The advantage parents who desire to understand baseball mechanics have today are the multitude of youtube videos and books by the professionals that illustrate proper fundementals of batting and pitching.
One poster in another forum said his son's high school coaches were taking video of each kid batting and then making the same undeducated comments to each kid on how to "fix" the swing.
Just because you are a high school baseball coach doesn't mean you know anything about how to play the game.
Due diligence before hand will help a parent find the program that will develop a kid and prepare him for the next level.
I already know for certain where I will not send my son to play high school baseball in our area.
Right now I am fortunate to have a travel ball coach with 15 yrs experience who understands the game more than most small town high school baseball coaches.

If you're gonna go watch every practice why not bring the coaches some snacks for after? They have to be hungry after all those fungoes.

quote:

Originally posted by tradosaurus:
As I start my due diligence this year and next scoping out high school baseball programs in preparation for my son's entrance into high school I will look at how the coaching staff teaches the kids.
The advantage parents who desire to understand baseball mechanics have today are the multitude of youtube videos and books by the professionals that illustrate proper fundementals of batting and pitching.
One poster in another forum said his son's high school coaches were taking video of each kid batting and then making the same undeducated comments to each kid on how to "fix" the swing.
Just because you are a high school baseball coach doesn't mean you know anything about how to play the game.
Due diligence before hand will help a parent find the program that will develop a kid and prepare him for the next level.
I already know for certain where I will not send my son to play high school baseball in our area.
Right now I am fortunate to have a travel ball coach with 15 yrs experience who understands the game more than most small town high school baseball coaches.

I have not lived in Texas since the early 90's so maybe I am just out of date, but how do you choose your kid's high school, assuming it is public? Even in metropolitan areas aren't you zoned for a particular high school? (My choice was San Saba or San Saba.)

"As I start my due diligence this year and next scoping out high school baseball programs in preparation for my son's entrance into high school I will look at how the coaching staff teaches the kids."


Interesting that you are looking at schools for their baseball programs. Not once did I read anything about educational programs. Don't take this the wrong way, but you might have your priorities out of whack. What will you do if your son decides not to play, or is injured and his career is over? It ends for everyone at some time. Maybe look for the best education and then look for strong baseball opportunities.

you can move or get a sham apt.

some growing school districts allow open enrollment to new schools.

quote:

Originally posted by tradosaurus:
As I start my due diligence this year and next scoping out high school baseball programs ... The advantage parents who desire to understand baseball mechanics have today are the multitude of youtube videos and books by the professionals that illustrate proper...

Just because you are a high school baseball coach doesn't mean you know anything about how to play the game.

Yeah TOTALLY, I can see where a parent searching through youtube videos would be way better than trusting a HS baseball coach.

Do you have any idea how many different "expert" hitting philosophies are floating around the internet? Of course if there's actually a youtube video, I'm sure that makes it legit.

quote:

Originally posted by tradosaurus:
As I start my due diligence this year and next scoping out high school baseball programs in preparation for my son's entrance into high school I will look at how the coaching staff teaches the kids.
The advantage parents who desire to understand baseball mechanics have today are the multitude of youtube videos and books by the professionals that illustrate proper fundementals of batting and pitching.
One poster in another forum said his son's high school coaches were taking video of each kid batting and then making the same undeducated comments to each kid on how to "fix" the swing.
Just because you are a high school baseball coach doesn't mean you know anything about how to play the game.
Due diligence before hand will help a parent find the program that will develop a kid and prepare him for the next level.
I already know for certain where I will not send my son to play high school baseball in our area.
Right now I am fortunate to have a travel ball coach with 15 yrs experience who understands the game more than most small town high school baseball coaches.

I bet all the coaches are just hoping that you pick them. The winner gets the son of the crazy dude sitting behind the backstop at practice. They probably see you there and text their buddies that it's their lucky day.

Where do these people come from.......

quote:

Originally posted by ironhorse:

quote:

Originally posted by dolphindan1:

Thanks....sarcasm is pretty subtle....but to respond to ur statement.....u are right i will make **** sure its the best choice for my son....cause the choice he was given by the school district sucks

Colt McCoy's dad, a high school coach here in Texas, came and spoke at my church and said something that struck a nerve with me. His advice for fathers was:

"Prepare your child for the path, not the path for your child."

Kinda seems to me like it addresses one of the main reasons this country is heading off course.

Awesome!

quote:

"Prepare your child for the path, not the path for your child."

You can do both and we all do.

quote:

Due diligence before hand will help a parent find the program that will develop a kid and prepare him for the next level.

We did our due diligence when we moved into the area. We looked for homes in the top rated academic school districts. Everything else was gravy. My kids managed to maneuver through any obstacles and excel on the sporting side.

Their school coaches abilities ranged from excellent to questionable. My kids thrived in every one of the circumstances. One time my son got really screwed I asked him, "What is your solution to the problem?" rather than make excuses and find a clearer path for him.

Humorous note: You should have seen the look on my son's face (at 12yo) when I told him we moved from the LL that was the Western representative to the LLWS and was outbid on a house within the boundaries of the Mid-Atlantic representative.

quote:

Originally posted by RJM:

quote:

Due diligence before hand will help a parent find the program that will develop a kid and prepare him for the next level.

We did our due diligence when we moved into the area. We looked for homes in the top rated academic school districts. Everything else was gravy. My kids managed to maneuver through any obstacles and excel on the sporting side.

Their school coaches abilities ranged from excellent to questionable. My kids thrived in every one of the circumstances. One time my son got really screwed I asked him, "What is your solution to the problem?" rather than make excuses and find a clearer path for him.

+1, or THIS, or whatever it is to show total agreement for this post.

We did the same thing. We live where my wife and I would be comfortable with our kids going to school. And actually, we did it long before then as my wife got a teaching gig at the elementary school. So, when our son hit 8th grade, we didnt have to do any "due diligence" on finding the right high school for my son's baseball talents. Now that my daughter is a freshmen, it's probably a good thing we didnt pick a school for baseball. She sucks at baseball.

Colt McCoy's dad, a high school coach here in Texas, came and spoke at my church and said something that struck a nerve with me. His advice for fathers was:

"Prepare your child for the path, not the path for your child."

Was that the same dad who was on the sideline telling the Texas coaches his son would not go back in the game against Alabama, cause he had a pro future?

quote:

Originally posted by GapFinder:
Colt McCoy's dad, a high school coach here in Texas, came and spoke at my church and said something that struck a nerve with me. His advice for fathers was:

"Prepare your child for the path, not the path for your child."

Was that the same dad who was on the sideline telling the Texas coaches his son would not go back in the game against Alabama, cause he had a pro future?

Here is another article illustrating his hypocrisy
McCoy's Dad on Browns

quote:

Originally posted by cabbagedad:

quote:

Originally posted by tradosaurus:
As I start my due diligence this year and next scoping out high school baseball programs ... The advantage parents who desire to understand baseball mechanics have today are the multitude of youtube videos and books by the professionals that illustrate proper...

Just because you are a high school baseball coach doesn't mean you know anything about how to play the game.

Yeah TOTALLY, I can see where a parent searching through youtube videos would be way better than trusting a HS baseball coach.

Do you have any idea how many different "expert" hitting philosophies are floating around the internet? Of course if there's actually a youtube video, I'm sure that makes it legit.

My son gets private lessons from Ted Williams. Just read his book "Science of Hitting". If a coach can't understand basic concepts of hitting I won't let him screw up my son!

This thread would make a much better movie than money ball was ... YouTube coaching? If you have to look at you tube to tell if your coach can coach then you can't tell... I don't know anything about building bridges, no you tube is going to change that.

quote:

Originally posted by Mizzoubaseball:

quote:

Originally posted by tradosaurus:
As I start my due diligence this year and next scoping out high school baseball programs in preparation for my son's entrance into high school I will look at how the coaching staff teaches the kids.
The advantage parents who desire to understand baseball mechanics have today are the multitude of youtube videos and books by the professionals that illustrate proper fundementals of batting and pitching.
One poster in another forum said his son's high school coaches were taking video of each kid batting and then making the same undeducated comments to each kid on how to "fix" the swing.
Just because you are a high school baseball coach doesn't mean you know anything about how to play the game.
Due diligence before hand will help a parent find the program that will develop a kid and prepare him for the next level.
I already know for certain where I will not send my son to play high school baseball in our area.
Right now I am fortunate to have a travel ball coach with 15 yrs experience who understands the game more than most small town high school baseball coaches.

I bet all the coaches are just hoping that you pick them. The winner gets the son of the crazy dude sitting behind the backstop at practice. They probably see you there and text their buddies that it's their lucky day.

Where do these people come from.......

I call it the lotto! I will probably sell raffle tickets to all coaches within a 100 mile radius that make the grade so as to make money on the side and at minimum demand a fully stocked and paid apartment so my son won't have to travel very far to school.
In fact I'm already soliciting interests from MLB clubs so that the bidding war can begin early.

quote:

Originally posted by GapFinder:
Was that the same dad who was on the sideline telling the Texas coaches his son would not go back in the game against Alabama, cause he had a pro future?

Haha, no. That definitely didn't happen. Completely fabricated.

quote:

Originally posted by tradosaurus:

Here is another article illustrating his hypocrisy
McCoy's Dad on Browns

Yup, he pointed out something that happened to his son so egregious the NFL is implemented immediate rules changes because of it.

Obviously that shows he is a hypocrite and an overbearing father.

Good luck shopping your son. And realize that no HS coach can "screw up" your son if he isn't already in the right path. But I'm sure you'll figure that out with YouTube.

Where in East Texas again?

Well said - thank you

quote:

Originally posted by ironhorse:

quote:

Originally posted by tradosaurus:

Here is another article illustrating his hypocrisy
McCoy's Dad on Browns

Yup, he pointed out something that happened to his son so egregious the NFL is implemented immediate rules changes because of it.

Obviously that shows he is a hypocrite and an overbearing father.

Good luck shopping your son. And realize that no HS coach can "screw up" your son if he isn't already in the right path. But I'm sure you'll figure that out with YouTube.

Where in East Texas again?

Don't shoot the messenger.
I agree with Colt's father just wonder if he is taking his own advice.
This is an interesting article about Brad McCoy NFL Parenting skills

I don't have too much to add to all of this but do have a problem with the comments about watching practice.

If the coach allows it, there is nothing wrong with watching practice. As a matter of fact, my son's HS coach strongly encourages every parent to come and watch their son's practice. For one, they will know full well why their son is or is not playing. For another, it gives us a chance to see and understand what is expected for the team to do in the games. This makes the games more enjoyable as we understand better when good plays happen as well as when the not so good ones happen.

Our coach makes it very clear that we are welcome to "watch" but it is his team and his rules. They get their butts chewed no matter who is watching and we, the parents, all know this.

I spent the better part of four years watching my son's HS practices with a good number of other parents and wouldn't have traded the opputunity for anything. When I was the parent of a freshman, it was very helpful to have the guidence and advise of the parents of the juniors and seniors. If you think this site is great because of all the experienced people who have been there and done that, we have the same thing in a smaller way with our team. I think the coach allowing and encouraging us to be there has help greatly.

Also, it is a great way for all the parents to get to know each other and we have/had a good time hanging out. While this is a rare situation and may not be the case with the OP, to make blanket statments that watching you son's practices is wrong really bothers me.

quote:

Originally posted by ironhorse:

quote:

Originally posted by dolphindan1:

Thanks....sarcasm is pretty subtle....but to respond to ur statement.....u are right i will make **** sure its the best choice for my son....cause the choice he was given by the school district sucks

Colt McCoy's dad, a high school coach here in Texas, came and spoke at my church and said something that struck a nerve with me. His advice for fathers was:

"Prepare your child for the path, not the path for your child."

Kinda seems to me like it addresses one of the main reasons this country is heading off course.

So basically you are saying I need to find a head coaching job as baseball coach and just coach my on son?...Shouldnt have turned that job down last summer...Yeah Colts dad had his path prepared for him...

quote:

Due diligence before hand will help a parent find the program that will develop a kid and prepare him for the next level.

I did mine before my kids were born by settling in a good neighborhood with a top school system. Sports are secondary, which is something over-the-top parents seem to forget. Relying on a school system solely because of a baseball coach is extremely shortsighted instead of looking for a school for the reasons schools exists..An education. As for sports or any after school activity, those were optional to my kids assuming they maintained their grades and earned the privledge to participate in after school sports/activities.

Even though we live in a top school district where they have a very good education system and ok sports programs, the baseball program had a lot to be desired but it never detered my kid from it. He just kept plugging thru the program where many players quit and he got his shot because his talent could no longer go ignored. Only he dealt with it and didn't run to mom and dad.

As for practices go, the last place my son or any of the players wanted parent was hanging around the field watching them. My son told me not to come to his practices until about 15 minutes before to pick him up until he got his license when he could take himself to and from school. Practice was their time, not the parents. It was their time to focus on working on their baseball skills, not parents hovering around to see who's kid getting the star treatment or getting the shaft. I dunno. Maybe I still have a little old school in me. Not competely but I knew where to let my kids breathe.

Colt McCoy's dad? LOL..He's the poster boy for helicopter parenting.

quote:

Originally posted by Mizzoubaseball:

quote:

Originally posted by tradosaurus:
As I start my due diligence this year and next scoping out high school baseball programs in preparation for my son's entrance into high school I will look at how the coaching staff teaches the kids.
The advantage parents who desire to understand baseball mechanics have today are the multitude of youtube videos and books by the professionals that illustrate proper fundementals of batting and pitching.
One poster in another forum said his son's high school coaches were taking video of each kid batting and then making the same undeducated comments to each kid on how to "fix" the swing.
Just because you are a high school baseball coach doesn't mean you know anything about how to play the game.
Due diligence before hand will help a parent find the program that will develop a kid and prepare him for the next level.
I already know for certain where I will not send my son to play high school baseball in our area.
Right now I am fortunate to have a travel ball coach with 15 yrs experience who understands the game more than most small town high school baseball coaches.

I bet all the coaches are just hoping that you pick them. The winner gets the son of the crazy dude sitting behind the backstop at practice. They probably see you there and text their buddies that it's their lucky day.

Where do these people come from.......

Trad is funny, he's gonna do his due diligence looking for the right HS coach who teaches good mechanics but would allow his kid to pitch on consecutive days in a tournament?

You are right, where do these folks come from?

What if my kid closes out a game and only pitches 20 pitches. Should he be able to pitch the next day O Wise One? If so what should be his pitch count?

quote:

Originally posted by tradosaurus:
What if my kid closes out a game and only pitches 20 pitches. Should he be able to pitch the next day O Wise One? If so what should be his pitch count?

Your first question asked was 50 pitches on one day and 50 on another, now it's changed.
You seem to know so much why not do your own research. If you need to ask me, that means you have been negligent in your research if you want your son to play past HS.
Ask, what if he threw 20 pitches in one inning, the weather, what type of pitches, that should be a consideration, and YOU as the parent should be armed with that knowledge, after all you have told us that you do know who your son would not play for in HS, but IMO, travel coaches probably add just as much harm to youth pitchers as any HS coach.

20 game pitches. How many in the bull pen before he took the mound? How many between innings? How many before this game and when was it? What other positions did he play prior to this game and when? Will he play the field after this appearance? How old is he? What kind of shape is he in? There are many questions.

Your first post about 50 pitches on Saturday and then 50 pitches on Sunday caught my attention to be honest with you. That is simply ridiculous. A 50 pitch outing is a complete start. That equates to around 100 pitches. Taking into account the bull pen before the game and the pitches between innings. And then your wondering if he can come back out for another 50 on Sunday?

Kids should not be pitching on less that four days rest. They should not be brought back on consecutive days regardless of how many pitches they threw. And many cases the pitchers on these youth teams are also the better position players. SS to pitcher to SS. Pitcher to SS to pitcher. It amazes me that more kids arms are not toast before HS. But the fact is many of the best young arms never see the mound in HS. And many of the best HS arms never make it out of college.

Heating up a arm and pitching in a game and then playing the field only to heat that arm back up the next day for I dont care how many pitches is simply ridiculous. But it happens all the time. And the damage many times does not show up to later in the career.

Thank you Coach May.

Well TPM and Coach May make my point. There is no exact answer.
What if my son pitched 10 pitches to close out a game? Are you saying he needs 4 days rest after that outing?
I do agree there are other factors to take into account such as weather, other positions the kid plays (such as catcher), physical well being.
But in the end there is not a one size fits all. That is just common sense.

One last thing; these discussion would go a lot smoother if you just assume I'm right since I've probably watched more youtube videos than anyone else.

with Coach May.

*edit* Trad, we posted at the same time. I agree with you that there is no "one size fits all" and everything should be taken into consideration. your question about 10 pitches and does that require four days of rest... well, i guess you have to make that decision yourself. With that being said, Coach May provided great advise. FWIW - I ended up having my shoulder (rotator cuff) surgery in June of my Senior year... JUNE OF MY SENIOR YEAR. Think about it. Be careful and not just you and your son but everyone who pitches or has a son that pitchs, that's all.

Another factor is his mechanics...
My son is not a pitcher but his arm use to be dead at the end of the season, It wasn't until he went pro did he learn the proper way to throw a baseball. He's never had a problem since (knock wood).

quote:

Originally posted by TPM:
You are right, where do these folks come from?

I know who runs them off.

quote:

Originally posted by tradosaurus:
What if my kid closes out a game and only pitches 20 pitches. Should he be able to pitch the next day O Wise One? If so what should be his pitch count?

Why would you want your kid to pitch ANY amount on consecutive days? What could possibly be gained by letting that happen? Sometimes I am not sure what goes thru the minds of coaches and parents that would let or do something like that.

quote:

Originally posted by tradosaurus:

One last thing; these discussion would go a lot smoother if you just assume I'm right since I've probably watched more youtube videos than anyone else.

Sultan,
You've got to be kidding me, with posts such as the above, he will run himself off.

Trad, are you suggesting that you have seen more than anyone here?

quote:

Originally posted by Coach_May:
20 game pitches. How many in the bull pen before he took the mound? How many between innings? How many before this game and when was it? What other positions did he play prior to this game and when? Will he play the field after this appearance? How old is he? What kind of shape is he in? There are many questions.

Your first post about 50 pitches on Saturday and then 50 pitches on Sunday caught my attention to be honest with you. That is simply ridiculous. A 50 pitch outing is a complete start. That equates to around 100 pitches. Taking into account the bull pen before the game and the pitches between innings. And then your wondering if he can come back out for another 50 on Sunday?

Kids should not be pitching on less that four days rest. They should not be brought back on consecutive days regardless of how many pitches they threw. And many cases the pitchers on these youth teams are also the better position players. SS to pitcher to SS. Pitcher to SS to pitcher. It amazes me that more kids arms are not toast before HS. But the fact is many of the best young arms never see the mound in HS. And many of the best HS arms never make it out of college.

Heating up a arm and pitching in a game and then playing the field only to heat that arm back up the next day for I dont care how many pitches is simply ridiculous. But it happens all the time. And the damage many times does not show up to later in the career.

I'll add a little science to this post. Pitching is an unnatrual physical motion. With every pitch come micro tears in the arm and shoulder. These tears are measured in thousanths of milimeters. With proper rest between appearances they heal. Without proper rest they become cummulative damage you won't know about until the kid is sitting on the table in an orthopedic surgeon's office being asked, "Does this hurt?"

quote:

Originally posted by tradosaurus:
Well TPM and Coach May make my point. There is no exact answer.

And what exactly was your point to begin with?

It's about common sense, all of the factors that Coach May gave would make the final termination, are you unable to figure that out?

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Originally posted by lefthookdad:

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Originally posted by tradosaurus:
What if my kid closes out a game and only pitches 20 pitches. Should he be able to pitch the next day O Wise One? If so what should be his pitch count?

Why would you want your kid to pitch ANY amount on consecutive days? What could possibly be gained by letting that happen? Sometimes I am not sure what goes thru the minds of coaches and parents that would let or do something like that.

If my son is used as a closer, say last inning of a game. Like I said each kid is different and there are lots of variables.

There is not a "one size fits all" answer to fit all kids in all situations.

TRAD--- what exactly is your baseball background?

When my youngest was 11-13 I coached his AAU team in the summers. It was a blast. But I was simply shocked at what some of these coaches would do. And many times like me the coaches were Dads. The typical tourney would be one game on Friday, two games on Saturday and the pool winners would play it out on Sunday. So you would have another 2 games on Sunday if you won the first game on Sunday morning. That would be 5 games in 3 days. Like almost every team we carried around 13-15 players. We would rotate position players a lot. And just about every kid was an option on the mound. They had to be. Of course some were better than others. And we would have a rotation set up based on who we would play in pool play. Many times our best arms would not be slated to pitch until Sunday. And sometimes we would have to come out of the gate with our best arms to make it to Sunday.

Here is what I saw over and over again. Top arm on many of these teams would start game 1 on Friday. He would then be used in a closing role sometime on Saturday. And then he would either pitch the first game on Sunday or the Championship game on Sunday. I saw this many times. And many times it was the HC son or an assistants son. Many of these teams would only have four or five guys that would pitch on a weekend. And they would "bounce" them back up there from one day to the next. One game to the next. It was not uncommon to see a kid pitch a complete game and close the next game and play SS in the same day as well.

The best youth pitcher I ever saw was during the summer when my youngest son was 13. He could throw straight cheese with a hammer and change up. He was legit. He also would throw at least two complete games a weekend. When my son reached HS I checked around to see what this kid was doing in HS. He was playing 1st base and not pitching. Labrum issues. He later went to a local JC as a hitter and 1st baseman. And stopped playing after his first year.

I had 3 guys on that team that were drafted. Several others still playing college baseball. And maybe some more draft picks to come. I had a dream that we would help them be the best they could be when it mattered the most. And not do anything to hurt their chances down the road just for a plastic trophy on Sunday. We won a lot. We developed a lot of arms. And most importantly I have never had to wonder if what I did was the reason they couldn't reach their potential as players.

Is it worth it? Do you know? When you run him out there on back to back days do you know? Or are you just hoping its Ok? You see I don't know. So I don't take any chances. When I had a great young LHP in my HS program a few years ago I pulled him when he hit 65 pitches early in the year. No hitter or not. Later in the year when he hit 85 pitches I pulled him no hitter or not. When he was a senior I didn't care how many scouts were at the game or if the GM of Atlanta was in the stands. When he hit his pitch count he came out. I limited his breaking stuff. I looked after him the best I knew how and if I had a doubt I erred on the side of caution. But I didn't know. And I still don't know. But if I am going to have to make a call you can bet its going to be on the safe side. He pitched game 7 of the WS this year. I didnt make him the pitcher he is. But I sure didn't stop him from being that pitcher either.

I had a stud 14 year old freshman you hit 88 on the gun his freshman year. 6'3 175 pure stud of a player. The most talented player I have ever coached. His Dad got a call from a program in ***X wanting him to come play for them that summer. I told him not to do it. Stay here and work out, long toss and get better. Play on a local showcase team for some coaches I know will look after you. "You don't know those guys. He is just another arm to them and they might throw him in the ground because he is going to be really good for them." Dad got the big head and wanted his son to be the star. And yes they threw him into the ground. Came back his soph year with shoulder problems. He didn't pitch for us again until the playoffs his Jr year when he was finally healthy. He had a great Sr year and was drafted. But he sat 91-92 and never really had that electric smooth arm where the ball just explodes out of it with no visible effort, like he had before. Still good enough to get drafted but what would have been?

So to all of you who don't know like I don't know why take a chance? Why roll the dice? When they are 28 and pitching in the WS is they want to push it and roll the dice of course your a man roll the freaking dice. Your not going to play this game forever go for it. But otherwise whats the point?

Since when did they begin using pitchers specifically as closers in youth baseball?

This is the problem why so many kids have arm, elbow issues, weekend tournaments with not enough pitching.

At the youth level there should be a one size fits all, to adjust as the pitcher matures and enters HS.

I don't ever remember son pitching anymore than his 3 or 4 innings in a weekend tournament at the youth level.

Most if not all of my son's coaches had the same philosophy as Coach May, surprisingly enough we seemed to get by and win a lot of games without running anyone into the ground. Until HS everyone pitched, that was just the way it was.

Thank goodness.

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Originally posted by TPM:
Since when did they begin using pitchers specifically as closers in youth baseball?

This is the problem why so many kids have arm, elbow issues, weekend tournaments with not enough pitching.

At the youth level there should be a one size fits all, to adjust as the pitcher matures and enters HS.

I don't ever remember son pitching anymore than his 3 or 4 innings in a weekend tournament at the youth level.

My son closed, if necessary from 9U through 16U. Once in showcase ball it was just getting his couple of innings reagardless of where it was in the game. He never pitched twice in the same day. If he threw two innings he got a days rest. The only time he started was 12yo LL and a couple of high school games during heavy schedule weeks.

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Originally posted by RJM:

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Originally posted by TPM:
Since when did they begin using pitchers specifically as closers in youth baseball?

This is the problem why so many kids have arm, elbow issues, weekend tournaments with not enough pitching.

At the youth level there should be a one size fits all, to adjust as the pitcher matures and enters HS.

I don't ever remember son pitching anymore than his 3 or 4 innings in a weekend tournament at the youth level.

My son closed, if necessary from 9U through 16U. Once in showcase ball it was just getting his couple of innings reagardless of where it was in the game. He never pitched twice in the same day. If he threw two innings he got a days rest. The only time he started was 12yo LL and a couple of high school games during heavy schedule weeks.

I understand what you were saying, he just got in his time at the end of the game, not specifically he came into close out a game every game or everyday.

He did say what if his son were the closer, just sayin......

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Originally posted by TRhit:
TRAD--- what exactly is your baseball background?

I have a PhD in youtube videos and I have read some how to books. What is yours?

Sometimes it's OK to say "I don't know". That's why I'm asking questions about pitcher innings.

I need to approach the Head Coach of our travel team with some knowledge of when to pull my son. Last year was his first year in travel ball and fortunately he wasn't the primary pitcher. This year I think he will see more pitching time as he had the lowest ERA on the team last year.

And if my son were the closer it probably wouldn't be every game, only the close ones (but I don't know for sure).

This is humorous. Trade is challenging high school coaches, showcase coaches, pro scouts, parents of pro players and parents of college players, all of whom have been through the journey.

Do what we did. My son had labrum surgery and we got a prescription form from the doctor telling our HS coach that he was not allowed to pitch...doctor's orders!

At least there was one benefit to the surgery.

The first time I let my son play travel ball was when he was 12. We had plenty of kids on the team because, as it turns out, they let anyone who could pay the fee play on the team. I helped coach and was always watchful of pitching kids too much, especially my son. I did not let me son play travel ball again until this last fall when a team called and wanted him and a couple of other of his HS team mates to come out and help the team. I made it clear to the coach up front, he was only going to be able to be used once during a weekend.....so, it was throw him 50-60 pitches of throw him 10, did not matter. I am not a big fan of travel ball at young ages, just too much ball.

We will be on a showcase team this upcoming summer but the coaches philosophy is on track with my philosophy and the team will carry 5-6 pitcher only spots.

I think too many people (parents) get caught up in the winning or my kids needs to be the best NOW. I have preached too all my players and my kids that at the younger level it is all just practice for HS or College.

Trade, why do you ask questions when you know so much already (u tube) and will already do whatever you plan on doing? It sure doesn't seem like you ask your questions to learn rather simply to be provocative.

I really don't think this is the site for you. People here are sincere and honestly, your attempts to rile everyone up take away from the content on this site.

Perhaps you could go back under your prehistoric rock?

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Originally posted by calisportsfan:
Trade, why do you ask questions when you know so much already (u tube) and will already do whatever you plan on doing? It sure doesn't seem like you ask your questions to learn rather simply to be provocative.

I really don't think this is the site for you. People here are sincere and honestly, your attempts to rile everyone up take away from the content on this site.

Perhaps you could go back under your prehistoric rock?

Obviously the tongue-in-cheek comments went over your head.

Why don't you just relax or just ignore?

Coach May liked your recap of your 11-13 team and your approach, my son played for a a team with the same kind of weekend tournaments when he was age 13-15. The coaches took the same approach, and it did cost them some wins. In fact 8 of the players in their senior year made the all area team. I joked with the coaches that with all of that talent that they should have won more, must have been the coaching!

The team was put together to prepare the kids to compete for their high school team. Like you saw many teams that were going for the win. What concerns me now it seems that kids are starting even younger with this kind of approach with their players

This sport is a marathon not a sprint.

Tongue in cheek...ok try this one. Yeah, I am the only reader here annoyed by you.

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High School Team issues...What do I do?

dolphindan1, did you get your answer?

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Originally posted by dolphindan1:
So basically you are saying I need to find a head coaching job as baseball coach and just coach my on son?...Shouldnt have turned that job down last summer...Yeah Colts dad had his path prepared for him...

I think you missed the point, not that that is shocking.

Keep finding someone to blame until one day reality kicks you in the balls.

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Originally posted by 13LHPdad:

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High School Team issues...What do I do?

dolphindan1, did you get your answer?

Yeah....lol....been good reading and again i appreciate everyones feedback....i dont wanna comment anymore because i dont wanna be called a ****** dad or whatever....

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Originally posted by ironhorse:

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Originally posted by dolphindan1:
So basically you are saying I need to find a head coaching job as baseball coach and just coach my on son?...Shouldnt have turned that job down last summer...Yeah Colts dad had his path prepared for him...

I think you missed the point, not that that is shocking.

Keep finding someone to blame until one day reality kicks you in the balls.

That is the point....isnt it...

And i havent blamed anyone about anything.....just trying to see if i should pursue other options....thats all....too bad u cant understand that.....

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Originally posted by dolphindan1:

And i havent blamed anyone about anything.....

Really...

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Originally posted by dolphindan1:

I honestly think the dad made an ultimatum or the coaches are kissing his butt to keep this kid there,

Let your kid face adversity now or call his boss the first time he gets passed over for a promotion. You're choice.

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Originally posted by ironhorse:

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Originally posted by dolphindan1:

And i havent blamed anyone about anything.....

Really...

Yes really...i have only stated what i saw....no blames at all....

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Originally posted by dolphindan1:

I honestly think the dad made an ultimatum or the coaches are kissing his butt to keep this kid there,

Let your kid face adversity now or call his boss the first time he gets passed over for a promotion. You're choice.

I agree letting him face adversity but i also agree just like a promotion if u arent happy u go somewhere else....the whole situation is a life lesson....not just half of it

Dolphindan, you can't spend life running or fixing. I think the thing is that your son is a freshman and you must realize that freshman are not a given on varsity.

Look at it this way, let him hang out with kids closer to his own age....less exposure to things older kids are more likely to do while he is quite a bit younger is a very good thing! He isn't going to play baseball in college because of his high school team so this probably in the scheme of life isn't something worth a bunch of upheaval for. Let him work harder and over come it. That alone will give him great confidence for other things.

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Originally posted by dolphindan1:

I agree letting him face adversity but i also agree just like a promotion if u arent happy u go somewhere else....the whole situation is a life lesson....not just half of it

Well the other half should be that he was "the third best hitter" on a 15u team, which is the age of a freshman team. And your upset he didn't make JV against 16 & 17 year olds?

I hope you do transfer. Preferably to the East Texas powerhouse where trad's YouTube created prodigy will be playing.

Geez, when does the clock run out on this thread?

As a lurker I've been following this thread with interest. I think out of consistency we must understand that the coach's perogative is true however as parents we must do what we feel is necessary to help our kids. I think everyone is right here and we must let go of our ego.

Doing what we feel is best for our kids.

Thats the whole issue here. Do you step in and try and manipulate the situation to "help them?" Or you do you get out of the way and allow them to make their way in order to "help them?"

At some point and time if they play long enough you will be TOTALLY out of the loop. 100% out of it. It will be their gig. There will nothing you can do other than show up at the games if you can. They will either sink or swim.

Now what better prepares them for that time?

Isn't that the same situation in life? One day you will no longer be in a position to "help them." Now for those that say "I will always help my kids.'" You will? From the grave? The only things they will take with them are the things you have taught them. So if you have always been there to bail them out, fix everything for them, manipulate situations for them, be a crutch for them, what are they going to do when you are no longer in a position to "help them?"

What happens when you fix this situation for them and they find themselves in another jam? Do they look for you to step up for them? Or do they look inside themselves and find a way to overcome whatever obstacles are in front of them?

My advice to the OP was to simply transfer his son. Why? He is convinced his son is not going to get a fair shake with these coaches in the program. So why stay and become a negative for his son and the program? Now if he can step out of the way and allow his son's talent, work ethic and toughness to overcome whatever obstacles are put in front of him leave him be and let him deal with it.

If you think not making the varisty as a freshman is a baseball obstacle you aint seen nothin yet. And you never will if you don't learn to "help" your son in the right way. But thats just my opinion. Just one persons opinion.

Boy, this is a rough place for newcomers. I hope they all make it through the hazing.

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Doing what we feel is best for our kids.

Thats the whole issue here. Do you step in and try and manipulate the situation to "help them?" Or you do you get out of the way and allow them to make their way in order to "help them?"

At some point and time if they play long enough you will be TOTALLY out of the loop. 100% out of it. It will be their gig. There will nothing you can do other than show up at the games if you can. They will either sink or swim.

Another perspective - I think what many of you are proposing should also apply to those daddy coaches. Let your kid earn it himself like all the other players have to. Dads should not coach their sons in high school. I have first hand experience and it's a nightmare. If you have other options, dolphindan1, you might want to consider them. At this point in the game, all you want for your kid is a level playing field. There will always be other politics at play, but backing off and letting your kid prove himself is easy, once the daddy coaches are gone.

For those that don't think parents lay stuff out for their kids.... what about the kid born on third that thinks he hit a triple!

is it not best for our kids to leaarn how to handle adversity early on?

I am afraid I can't classify playing time with the HS baseball team or a run in with the coach as something that is that big of a deal.

Girls say no to dates, people don't hire kids at McDonald's, they don't get to drive the car they want and on and on. There will be hundreds of disapointments and slights big & small and imagined or real. Everyone starts dealing with this as soon as they are born. Some of it matters but most of it is unimportant and forgotten. I might be a little bit tough here but almost all Americans really don't know what adversity is short of a death in the family. Our country is so great with so many opportunities that almost everyone has not only food and the basic necessities but things that most of the world would think of as luxuries like cars, electricity, plumbing, air conditioning, flat screens, cable etc.

Let's put the High School baseball team in the proper perspective. For millions of kids it'll be the end of a sporting career becasue they aren't good enough to go further in the game. They will survive, have productive lives and the world will stay on it's axis.

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Originally posted by luv baseball:
I am afraid I can't classify playing time with the HS baseball team or a run in with the coach as something that is that big of a deal.

Girls say no to dates, people don't hire kids at McDonald's, they don't get to drive the car they want and on and on. There will be hundreds of disapointments and slights big & small and imagined or real. Everyone starts dealing with this as soon as they are born. Some of it matters but most of it is unimportant and forgotten. I might be a little bit tough here but almost all Americans really don't know what adversity is short of a death in the family. Our country is so great with so many opportunities that almost everyone has not only food and the basic necessities but things that most of the world would think of as luxuries like cars, electricity, plumbing, air conditioning, flat screens, cable etc.

Let's put the High School baseball team in the proper perspective. For millions of kids it'll be the end of a sporting career becasue they aren't good enough to go further in the game. They will survive, have productive lives and the world will stay on it's axis.

Great point, I agree.

This reminds me of one of those goofy facebook pages that you can like, or whatever. One asked "What is the greatest obstacle your son has had to overcome to play baseball?" There were a few incredible ones, including; missing a season to go through chemo, a few about having T-1 diabetes, a boy with aspergers trying to play, a pitcher getting hit in the head by a hit ball, etc. Some very big obstacles. But even after reading these, some parents still say their big obstacle was daddy ball, coaches not liking their son, and that type of stuff. Amazing what people think is an obstacle. Maybe their son is really blessed and that is the big hurdle of his life.

We find obstacles, big and small, in everything we do. We deal with them as they arise. Some people plow through them without a second thought and some people sit and complain. Winners plow, losers b i t c h.

There's no such thing as "fair." Make your own destiny. Like the kids with T-1 diabetes, or the kid going through chemo. They decided to plow.

There are a few posters on this thread that fall into the later category. Quit complaining and have your boys (not you) do something about their situation. Freekin' crybabies.

Rant off.

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Originally posted by ironhorse:

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Originally posted by dolphindan1:

I agree letting him face adversity but i also agree just like a promotion if u arent happy u go somewhere else....the whole situation is a life lesson....not just half of it

Well the other half should be that he was "the third best hitter" on a 15u team, which is the age of a freshman team. And your upset he didn't make JV against 16 & 17 year olds?

I hope you do transfer. Preferably to the East Texas powerhouse where trad's YouTube created prodigy will be playing.

I never said he was the third best hitter on his travel team...I said he hit third on JV last year as an 8th grader and hit 3rd on his travel team...I also never said he didnt make JV...I said he didnt make Varsity after 3 9th graders and 1 8th grader which are the 3 coaches kids made Varsity.

My only concern with the whole thing is even when he is a senior he will never be on a level playing field after what happened this year...also the 2 coaches kids play the same postions he plays....Let me get one thing straight my son will start in the OF and will get plenty of playing time on JV...Playing JV is not an issue its the principle of the situation...He really wants to play first base and knows he will never get that chance where he is at now he was not even allowed to tryout for Varsity or JV for a particular position...I only wanted to know if I should move him to a private school...I am not crying, whining, Bitching, Moaning or whatever...I am not trying to make life easier for my son...trust me military/college family here...BUT trust me when I say there is a issue at this school...

went to varsity scrimmage last night..well the one coaches son didnt even know how to hold runners as a pitcher. one runner was standing halfway between 1st and 2nd and the pitcher did nothing...sad but true....other coaches son gave up 6 runs as the starting pitcher...remember 9th graders...they arent ready but it wont be noticed trust me...OH yeah 4 errors at 1st base...just got a chuckle out of it...