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I was wondering what kind of out of season training or similar things are allowed under ihsa rules? At school we just started some things that seem to be a little too structured for off season. Now with a new coach we are doing some things we never have before and wondering what were are actually allowed to do. What happens if the coach is not obeying ihsa rules? thanks for the help
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Our team has always done the same as ChiSox... open gym/open lifting three days per week, some throwing, some running. The key though has always been "open" meaning it's available to anyone who wants to attend, not just the team. And coach may be observing, but not coaching. Everything is lead by team captains.

Coach at a neighboring school was holding practices on the baseball field during the fall - that ended quickly when word got out.

The penalty for breaking the rules is pretty harsh, so for the sake of the whole team, make sure that your coach is following the rules.
quote:
Coach at a neighboring school was holding practices on the baseball field during the fall - that ended quickly when word got out.


So schools can play in games and tournaments in the fall but not practice?

My son’s team played St. Charles North and Palatine last fall in a Fox Valley league.
The whole thing is a bit sketchy. I often wondered myself as my son's travel team gathered at a baseball facility on Sunday nights during the winter and we saw a rival school's freshman baseball coach (wearing the school's baseball hat, to boot) working with 30 or so kids. Us coaches kind of went "Hmmmm."

The IHSA's Section 2-School By-Laws (specifically, Section 2.09) gives an illustrative example (#69) of a school conducting pre-season conditioning with the answer of "no". Specifically,

69) Q. May a school conduct pre-season conditioning for a team prior to the starting date for any sport as outlined in Section 5.000 of the IHSA By-laws?
A. No. Conducting a preseason conditioning program as outlined above would constitute a violation of IHSA By-law
2.090. (By-law 2.090)

However, Section 3-Athletic Eligibility By-Laws (specifically, Section 3.16) describes "Open Gym Limitations." I suppose off-season workouts, conditioning, etc., without coaching instruction, could qualify under the parameters of "open gym."

Section 5-Sport Season By-Laws describes the time frames for the sport seasons, natch. Section 5.01 relates to fall baseball.

Here are the links to applicable IHSA by-laws:

Section 2-School By-Laws - See Section 2.09-Season Limitation in Athletic Activities
http://www.ihsa.org/org/policy/2008-09/section2.pdf

Section 3-Athletic Eligibility By-Laws - See Section 3.16-Open Gym Limitations
http://www.ihsa.org/org/policy/2008-09/section3.pdf

Section 5-Sport Season By-Laws - See Section 5.01-Boys Fall Baseball
http://www.ihsa.org/org/policy/2008-09/section5.pdf

If you want any of the other sections, you can type any of the links into your browser and change the section number. Enjoy!
Last edited by Used to Hit 300
at the last one i only threw being a pitcher then left....but apparently he was going around the hitting drills and things like that(wasn't sure what he was exactly doing or saying) Then had everyone do sprints after throwing. In the years past we would go in on our own and the coach would just be there(sometimes) but not doing to much but just talking with players.
We've always had it pounded into our heads that coaches cannot have any contact with the team in a coaching capacity in the off-season. I'm not aware of any high school teams in our conference that plays a fall season, but obviously it is allowed according to the IHSA rules.

In our school fall means one thing - football. All the baseball coaches - and I do mean all - coach football, so there wouldn't be anyone to coach a fall season even if we had one!

So does anyone know - could a coach just practice with his team in the fall with no intention of playing a fall season? I just know that the coach I mentioned earlier shut it down as soon as someone brought it to the AD's attention, but maybe they were unclear on the rules as well.
Section 5 clearly states:

5.010 BOYS FALL BASEBALL
5.011 Season Limitation
a. No school belonging to this Association shall organize its Boys Fall Baseball teams, practice or participate in interscholastic contests earlier than Monday of Week 7 or later than Saturday of Week 16 in the IHSA Standardized Calendar.

and...

2.090 SEASON LIMITATION IN ATHLETIC ACTIVITIES
No school belonging to this Association shall organize its teams, practice, scrimmage or participate in any interscholastic sport outside of the season limitations as prescribed in Section 5.000 of these By-Laws;

A reasonable interpretation would be "practice" is perfectly acceptable within the by-laws. The IHSA defines the time-frame as acceptable and defines the activity.
Two fall leagues that I know of feature high school teams. Fox Valley and the league that Harvey Foster runs in the NW susburbs. Cant speak for the FVL but I know Harveys league has no high school coach involvement what so ever. Are the coachs at the games? Quite a few show up occasionally but all they do is sit in the stands as bystanders. They know and abide by the rules. Both leagues are non IHSA sanctioned and any athlete partaking in a fall IHSA sport is not allowed to play. Teams are organized and run by either parents or team captains. Harveys league is for high school teams only while FVL also allows fulltime travel teams to compete.
quote:
Originally posted by bama1957:
I know Harveys league has no high school coach involvement what so ever. Are the coachs at the games? Quite a few show up occasionally but all they do is sit in the stands as bystanders. They know and abide by the rules.


I have seen coaches in the dugouts and coaching at Harveys games.
The sad part is that the HS Coaches are REQUIRING their kids to do more and more each year. It's a shame that I ask the kids that I coach all summer and fall (50-60 games) to get together for two hours a week, but they can't because they have to attend one of their 3 "optional" high school workouts which go on for 3 hours each day.

Along the same lines I was working with a couple kids today who said that they have early morning lifting for baseball before school three times a week, and then have to go to football lifting after school. That is one of the most counterproductive things I have ever heard.

The kids are the ones that are suffering here, they are being torn in some many directions and being spoon fed EVERYTHING.

I've only been out of high school for 10 years, but it is completley different now. During our off-seasons a few of us (football and/or baseball) got together and challenged each other in the weight room, at good ole' Grand Slam, on the T in my garage, in the field house, wherever we could find space. Now the kids schedules look like a campaigning politician and parents/coaches wonder why the kids aren't "taking responsibility" or "showing intiative" . . . . it's because they DON'T HAVE TO!

Some could argue that I am part of the problem by owning and operating a training facility. I can assure you that 1/2 hour a week in a cage is not what is cluttering the kids schedules. Furthermore I encourage the kids to "figure it out" for themselves and learn through reps and failure, not by someone telling you how to do everything.

Sorry for venting, but I logged on after hearing about the two-a-day lifts and this topic was perfect for letting this all fly.

Happy New Year!

-Nelson Gord
quote:
Along the same lines I was working with a couple kids today who said that they have early morning lifting for baseball before school three times a week, and then have to go to football lifting after school. That is one of the most counterproductive things I have ever heard.


How so? As long as they're not doing the same thing, I don't see anything wrong with it. I know of a few football players at my high school who lift before school and then lift after school. The key is they aren't doing their core lifts more than once a week.
That's unfortunate. Our coaches actually encourage their players to lift with the football team. If the kids lift with the football coach, it's one less that the basketball coach or baseball coach has to worry about getting into the weight room Wink

In fact, for at least a little while, they were splitting morning responsibilities and any of them would supervise any of the other coaches' kids in the weight room.

Why can't coaches from the same school get along?
quote:
Originally posted by Bulldog 19:
Why can't coaches from the same school get along?


... because some coaches view other sports as a way to keep their kids in shape and competitive while others seem to be afraid that the athlete will choose another sport and "specialize" - so they make their sport a year-round commitment.

While most of the people on here probably agree that baseball is #1, I don't know how many agree with:

  • playing baseball in the spring, then the summer, then the fall, concluding the cycle with workouts/conditioning in the winter
    VS
  • playing in the spring & summer then taking a break and playing football/futbol in the fall and/or basketball in the winter.
If coaches are violating IHSA rules in the off season that is unfortunate. However, there are many coaches out there giving extra time to be in the weight room/open gyms abiding to the rules of the IHSA. If you guys really think coaches are abusing their student athletes, call up the coaches you have issues with. If you are only hearing the story from high school athletes, sometimes you haven't heard the whole story.
I agree with you Terry. Now a days these kids are spread so thin. I don't mind if my athletes are doing the football workouts. All I care about is that they are doing something and staying active, preparing themselves for the season. Not only that, but I don't want to force a kid to make a decision as to whether they want to play football or baseball. I may lose a great kid. I would hope the football players would want to come and lift (whatever they lifts they want) when other baseball players are lifting for the simple fact that this is a team and they want the comraderie going into the season. If not, that's fine too. I can't make a kid do something he doesn't want to do. If he has the same goals as his teammates hopefully he'll do what it takes to be successful. Good luck to everyone this Spring.

Pigs
We have a very simple philosophy with our athletes at our school. We want you active.

#1 Play another sport. You cannot simulate that kind of competition in the weight room.

#2 If you do not play another sport, myself, the football coach and the futbol coach have the weight room open every day. You should take advantage of that. If you are not in another sport, you should also take advantage of open gyms.

We all encourage our athletes to play other sports first. However, I don't believe that a coach should tell a kid to play another sport. That is up to the kid and their parents. We just make it clear that we encourage our athletes to be active.
Last edited by BCRockets
I also encourage these kids to play other sports. Not many kids get to follow their dream to the next level. They should take advantage of participating in HS athletics if they can. Not only that, they are being competitive on a daily basis. That's something that is extremely hard to duplicate. They seem to just have that edge and have been in pressure situations before. I want that kid up to bat, or on the mound in a tough situation b/c they've been there before.

Pigs
I hesitated to get involved in this but here goes. First of all I personally encourage my players to play a fall sport at our school as our enrollment is 1400 and we need to cooperate to be competitive in all of our programs. Also I think kids benefit from playing other sports in the fall. That being said..... Illinois is the only state that has 3 legal baseball seasons where the HS coach may coach their kids. Fall baseball originated because there were schools down south that did not offer football in the fall. The schools up north have taken advantage of this rule and have offered fall programs during the ihsa's window of time to participate. The ihsa does not like to make amendments to their rules so thus ihsa baseball in the fall. During this period HS coaches CAN coach their kids, they CAN use their facilities, and they CAN play games and practices under their school name. Their have been proposals to challenge fall and summer baseball on a yearly basis but most have failed to get the necessary votes to bring change. I will say that our conference (Western Sun) does not allow for (school sponsored) fall baseball. The coaches voted as a group to not put pressure on the kids to drop fall sports. We all have schools below 2000 kids for the most part. Obviously they could play in other organized fall baseball programs but not a school program.
quote:
Illinois is the only state that has 3 legal baseball seasons where the HS coach may coach their kids. Fall baseball originated because there were schools down south that did not offer football in the fall. The schools up north have taken advantage of this rule and have offered fall programs during the ihsa's window of time to participate


I thought you could only have Fall Baseball IF you didn't have football? I'll see what I can dig up to see if there's any truth to it, or if it's just me making things up Wink
Just to jump into the mix, GBS is correct, there are 3 seasons of baseball in Illinois, all of which can be instructed by the coach (practice or game).
  • Open gyms refer to the myriad of activities that are provided for participation.
  • Open gyms in which coaches watch players throw or hit but do not coach are illegal because the gym is tailored for the improvement of one specific sport.
  • Senior or Captain led practices or excuse me open gyms are illegal.
  • There can be no structure to an open gym whether it be at a off-site facility or within the schools gymnasium.
  • Coaches/seniors/captains who are organizing an open gym with specific drills are illegal.

    What can we do?


  • Coaches can work with 2 players individually at any one time for no specific period of time on sport specific skills.
  • Coaches can provide conditioning opportunities to all athletes which in turn develop their athleticism.

    Develop a program that is comitted to developing athleticism, athletic ability, etc. Gets more athletes involved and more coaches from across sports communicating.
  • As mentioned earlier baseball coaches can instruct players during the fall season. The ihsa has specified weeks for practice and then specified weeks in which games can be played. The original thought was that fall baseball would be allowed for those schools that don't have football. It has expanded to the point where student/athletes that do not play a fall sport can play fall ball at some schools. At our school our AD will not allow fall baseball to occur nor would I be able to coach it because I coach football. My belief is that fall baseball should be allowed under certain guidelines. Once the school year begins and football is well underway (approximately two to three weeks) fall baseball could begin. I believe this because what about the athletes who do not play a fall sport or who are just baseball players? Why can't they hone their craft or be active in some way or fashion. It seems to me more of a punishment not to be allowed to do something besides watching TV or playing video games. Realize that I want our would like our athletes to do as much as they can i.e. play different sports because it really is the only time in their life where they compete and have fun doing it but... there should be an alternative if they so desire. On a different note, Baseball unlike other sports during the summer is not bound by the 25 day contact rule. I found this out a couple of summers ago when our school was fortunate enough to make it to the summer state playoffs. Athletic directors and other school administrators will state I'm wrong but they are misinformed of the rule. Just a little FYI. Also the ihsa hesitates to change any baseball rules in place because of the strong tradition of the Illinois Baseball Coaches Association. Think about how many other high school sport associations meet monthly and carry the clout that the baseball association does. Heck, we start this month with our own baseball meetings; the SSBCA or the South Suburban Baseball Coaches Association which consists of 33 teams.
    There are a lot more options out there for kids who want to play baseball in the fall. It did not used to be that way. Granted, some of those options cost $$$ and they all compete at different levels. We do NOT do the high school thing at Naperville Central and I have not found that to be a problem. Playing other sports is a fine thing but many times coaches make it hard to do both well. At some point, many of the kids feel like they have to choose between one or the other. Where do they get that from? Don't rightly know the answer to that.

    If you want to get better at baseball, I think it is all about the reps. Where you get the reps probably doesn't matter as much, as long as you get them somewhere. In our house, baseball is a 12 month sport and that is how you get better at baseball. It is not an easy sport to learn.

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