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Hips??????

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SandmanSandman500+ posts
If I get BD's drift... I know that when I focus too much in my golf swing on turning the hips, I end up spinning them out so early that I "lose" my hands/arms behind my body, resulting in either a classic "outside/in over-the-top pull/hook or block/slice" OR worse, the dreaded shank.

Yes, the hips do lead the way, but there's probably a point of diminishing (damaging) returns?

Is that what you're alluding to, BD?
CoachB25CoachB25Honorary "Old TImer"
Bluedog, do you then argue that the hips aren't beginning to open as that front heel hits?

On another board the discussion on hips and the inside low pitch was very interesting. ie. sit (very minute but present), hips open in the same movement as the hitter adjust tilt to react to ball location. Something to think about. I'll look around for some video.

Forgot to add, do you think that the hips respond to the hitter moving the middle?

Good Video of a MLB Hitter "Moving the Middle."

http://imageevent.com/siggy/hitting/analysis?p=10&n=1&m=20&c=4&l=0&w=4&s=0&z=9
Last edited by CoachB25
CoachB25CoachB25Honorary "Old TImer"
quote:
Originally posted by Chameleon:
quote:
Originally posted by CoachB25:
Bluedog, do you then argue that the hips aren't beginning to open as that front heel hits?



The hips start to open long before heel plant.


Yes, as per the video I linked to on Siggy's site. I made this statement (Question) in this manner to let Blue Dog discuss it. FYI, I was trying to get away from the impression that I try to force my views on others with regards to hitting. Rather, I'd let you, Blue Dog, etc. make your case. Thus the aforementioned statement about not posting on this site much in the hitting forum recently.

Blue Dog, nice use of Siggy's site to make your point!

Take care,
Last edited by CoachB25
CoachB25CoachB25Honorary "Old TImer"
I would like to add one more thing to this discussion. ie. the use of video. Chameleon made the point on another site about the use of video both in slow motion and in real time. It was a valid point. I find that I'm spending a huge amount of time on my RVP Program (you can use several programs so you don't have to have the software I have.) watching MLB Hitters lately. I did a session with some of my Dads in our feeder program this past few weeks where we looked at what they were taught as players/kids and what the realities are. (Now, I know we can take these "realities" and even argue them.) What transpired was that many had not watched video ever. EVER! In all of our quest to understand what we are teaching, I think that Chameleon's point is ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL in that journey! JMHO!

(Kind of like what I wanted Blue Dog to discuss and what he referenced in the video link he provided.)
BlueDogBlueDog1,000+ posts
quote:
How can any conclusions be drawn as to when the hips open in relation to other parts of the swing/body when the clips only show the upper half of their bodies???


Much more than upper half in those clips.....And, those clips make my point, which is, the hips don't matter......It ain't about the hips....!!!!!!
SandmanSandman500+ posts
But you also said:

quote:
Compare these......Hips open in different time frames...

http://www.youthbaseballcoaching.com/mpg/mac03.mpeg

http://www.youthbaseballcoaching.com/mpg/Guerrero01.mpeg


"Different time frames" in relation to what?

On second thought, never mind. I only posted the other 2 Manny clips in rebuttal to the one you referenced of Manny in which it looked like he didn't turn his hips as much into foot plant.

But I just don't see this debate going anywhere. Maybe I'll be proven wrong.

Enjoy!
SandmanSandman500+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by BlueDog:
There is way too much concentration on turning the hips when swinging a bat around here, IMO.......

Hmmm... Recall that (a) I only commented that the hips do lead the way (notice I didn't suggest any conscious sequential movement thoughts on the part of a hitter to make that happen tho?) and (b) I posted clips of Manny opening his hips into foot plant after you posted a clip of him that did not show much of this.

Interestingly though...

TODAY:
quote:
Originally posted by BlueDog, February 20, 2007:
It's not about opening the hips in a certain timeframe.

AND SOME HISTORY"

quote:
Originally posted by BlueDog, March 28, 2004:
I believe the hips should open early.....They actually should begin opening during the stride.....Did I say this???..Yes, I did..... Eek
quote:
Originally posted by BlueDog, August 21, 2004:
"You need a swing that's short in the back, and long in the front."

Wrong!!!........Hitters need EFFICIENT swings.......Bat qUickness and proper technique make a swing EFFICIENT......The hips should move the legs........Not the other way around.....
quote:
Originally posted by BlueDog, March 06, 2006:
His hips rotate into foot plant as all MLB hitters do......The top half never closes...That would require counter-rotation and that doesn't happen.....MLB hitters load the shoulder muscles by pinching them....There's no torque involved and the so-called torque position simply doesn't exist in the MLB swing.....

The hip rotation forces the front foot to the ground as the hips begin the rotation.....It's rotate into foot plant, not throw the foot down, then rotate.....

Torque in the MLB swing is a fallacy and does not exist.....
quote:
Originally posted by BlueDog, May 16, 2006:
MLB hitters rotate the hips into foot plant....The hips are rotating before the front foot comes down.....

The brain makes the decision to swing, or not to swing....If the decision is not to swing, the shoulders don't rotate.....The hands and arms connect to the shoulders and follow their lead.....

It's about hips and shoulders, not arms and hands....
quote:
Originally posted by BlueDog, May 18, 2006:
NYdad, hips opening is the beginning of rotation.....

Weight shift momentum first, then rotation....

Weight shift momentum is chaos.......The chaos is controlled and turned into rotation just before footplant......
quote:
Originally posted by BlueDog, May 19, 2006:
A hitter doesn't have time to commit to a swing after foot plant.....Foot plant happens to late to begin the swing....And, the hips begin rotating before foot plant....If they didn't, the swing would be way late....

I thought it didn't matter when the hips opened???
Last edited by Sandman
S swingbuster1,000+ posts
If you understand this it is all you will ever need to understand.

THe natural front foot position to block weight is open 45 degree...that is where the body land it to stop weight over a bent knee and to give to an fro balance.

Williams said the most important part of hitting was to coil the hips as you stride. I think he considered that a teach or a major point of emphasis.

Now if you coil your hips as you stride and do what is natural at block then you WILL rotate into foot plant. The actual rotate into foot plant is not the teach....the hip coil during the stride IS a major teach.

The next teach is how to get the shoulder to come back to the ball. Certain loading patterns do this as a side effect. The BHUT pattern of Williams causes some wrist bind with hip coil and is simply a hand trigger that allows the hips to coil but the shoulders to dely their loading until the front foot is about 4-5 inches from foot plant. SO the shoulder load as the hips unload. That is plain to see in some form in all great hitters

When the barrel starts out of plane and then transitions back to plane ; the up and over of the rear elbow works in time with the lead knee flaring stretching the rubber band middle that is not a power generator but a storage device when forces are applied above and below it.

From a frontal view the point of the shoulder is moving IN to the ball as the point of the hips is rotating out( due to the uncoil to get the front foot in position).

This widens the hip/ shoulder torque angle AS the COM is moved forward. Lead arm extension occurs due to spatial separation and not any king of linear lead arm push back. The shoulders slight LATE counter rotation( coming back to the ball not trying to stay on the ball) coupled with the lead leg opening lengthen the lead arm at precisely the right time (DURING THE STRIDE) as a side effect is spatial torque development

AT GO EPSTEIN is right. THe shoulders TILT to seek the plane AND release the barrel on the same move. Early attemmpts to line up the rear shoulder on the ball raises the lead shoulder and prematurely lets stretch out of the rubber band. So GO is two things

1, the sudden relative change of the elbow positions

2, the lateral shoulder tilt .....and the lead elbow moving from a low position to jutting up and the rear elbow going from UP to quickly slotting. This move unlocks the closed shoulders like pulling a trigger and the elbow change torques the handle blurring the barrel in one frame behind the hitter.

SO the coiling of the hips and BHUT move are X angle stretchers. The stride is simply to move the COG to the new balance center although lead arm extension does occur from the spatial separation developed during this period

The stretch in the middle is created and stored during the shift from forces applied above and below the middle during the movement of the middle. THe movement forward of the middle is essential to be balanced in a forward position at GO to stop the reverse pivot

The release of the stretch happens one way and one way only...tilt.

You cannot block and TILT without a strong need for the the lead leg goes into full extension making the hips turn to completion just as the shoulders tilt and the elbow change relative position

SO it is not the hips. It is not the shoulders. Every swing is a combination of rotation and weight shift, torque formation and sudden release. To teach this you need to see the whole move
Last edited by swingbuster
SandmanSandman500+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by BlueDog:
Sandman, those posts were when I believed the center to be other than what I now know to be the center.....

Your problem is, you don't have a clue where the center is.....As a result, you cannot understand balance in the swing.....


And exactly WHAT did I say in my posts above that makes you think that? Be specific.

All I originally said was "Yes, the hips do lead the way, but there's probably a point of diminishing (damaging) returns?" It was an observation, not a cue.

Then I simply offered 2 clips of Manny showing that his hips were opening into foot plant when YOU tried to make everyone think that he didn't do that (w/ the one clip you posted). I didn't offer any suggestions as to HOW he was doing that though; I just brought into question the clip you posted.

Stop being so darned presumptuous, read what people SAY and stop putting words into people's mouths!!!

I'm sure I'm not the only one who has grown tired of all the self-proclaimed 'net gurus standing on their perches and yelling down at everyone about how they're the only ones who have it all figured out. Then, a month or year later, they've discovered something different in the swing - a new revelation - and now THAT's the all-important point that the rest of the world needs enlightening on.

I feel that I've become pretty comfortable/accurate at using video to prove my observational points - points about WHAT I see occurring in the swing and when. What I'm not yet comfortable with is my ability to determine/teach HOW to make this happen. Do my hitters get better throughout the season? Usually. Do I have anything to do w/ it? Hopefully. But are they swinging exactly like mini-MLB'ers? Heck no!

And I would challenge you and the other 'net gurus on that too. Post some before/after video clips (and the after can't be a year or 2 down the line, when a hitter might've seen other instructors, grown more physically/confident, or just plain figured it out on his own). No, something in the timeframe of a few weeks to a couple months. Tell us (better yet, SHOW us video of you teaching/showing him HOW to hit) the exact cues/drills/instructions you used w/ him and SHOW us the improvement. Prove to us that you have had actual success in changing a youth hitter's mechanics for the better (not just improving their results, which could be attributed to many things).

Until then, you're just another over-self-assured bag of internet hot air. Roll Eyes
Last edited by Sandman
BlueDogBlueDog1,000+ posts
quote:
I feel that I've become pretty comfortable/accurate at using video to prove my observational points - points about WHAT I see occurring in the swing and when.


Then you don't need to learn anymore.......

May I suggest you discuss hitting with others who have learned it all like you have....I'm a waste of your time 'cause I'm still learning!!
Last edited by BlueDog
BlueDogBlueDog1,000+ posts
quote:
I'm sure I'm not the only one who has grown tired of all the self-proclaimed 'net gurus standing on their perches and yelling down at everyone about how they're the only ones who have it all figured out.


Sandman, you really have had your head in the sand for awhile....I've been posting 'bout questioning many established beliefs including how the shoulders load and unload.....

FWIW, you're the one who proclaims to have it figured out.....I'm not there yet.....
deemaxdeemax500+ posts
Bluedog

Where is the "middle"...? How do you use the "middle", and how would a hitter incorperate the idea of using his "middle" into his swing.

If you answer these questions we can avoid further bloodshed in this forum.


bluedog
quote:
Much more than upper half in those clips.....And, those clips make my point, which is, the hips don't matter......It ain't about the hips....!!!!!!


If the hips are leading the way (ahead of the rest of the upper body) then how can they not matter. I dont understand what is pulling the hips into place if they are first in line. IMO rotating the hips doesnt refer to the beltline, but includes your azz and belly button as well.
Last edited by deemax
SandmanSandman500+ posts
BullDog,

You really DO have a serious issue w/ reading what people write w/o adding your own twisted slant, don't you?

Here it is again for you... read slowly, little boy:
quote:
I feel that I've become pretty comfortable/accurate at using video to prove my observational points - points about WHAT I see occurring in the swing and when. What I'm not yet comfortable with is my ability to determine/teach HOW to make this happen.
I didn't imply that "I have it all figured out". Just that it's pretty easy to see/prove things like "Are the hips opening prior to foot plant?"

Why not be a man and just admit that you were wrong about Manny not being one who does open his hips a bit into foot plant instead of just slinging insults as a cover-up? No one's perfect. Unlike you, we won't judge you. Wink

And for you to try to fool this board into thinking that I, of all people, "don't need to learn anymore" is beyond ludicrous!?! Anyone whose been around as long as you have should know better than to accuse me of that. I'm ALWAYS learning. I'm not a guy who posts his kid's swing looking for praise, nor do I have some firm belief system that I cram down everyone's throats. Get real!

I still say, "Put up, or SHUT up!". Show us your trained hitters and we'll start genuflecting when you enter a thread.
Last edited by Sandman
S swingbuster1,000+ posts
I find the cryptic riddle responses childish

The hips don't work or its in the hands or XYZ are just bits and pieces of a much bigger puzzle that you can either put together or not

If you do know where all the pieces fit then maybe you should stop telling people what you think about one piece or another.

It is an attention getting device that is a waste of good honest people's time. Those post should be ignored all together.

Let the ***** style of taunting people with stupid statements go back where it came from please.

It is like finger nails on a calk board
Last edited by swingbuster
CoachB25CoachB25Honorary "Old TImer"
FYI, I'm not an internet hitting guru! I've been doing this for a year or two and have had some success. You know what? I still have a lot to learn. When I make posts on hitting, I readily admit that there are subjects I won't get very indepth discussing including "Moving the Middle" per agreements elsewhere. However, when I post those things I've discovered be it video work or working with my hitters, it is simply one person's observations on a long journey. Naturally, I have my own opinions about who I enjoy discussing hitting with and I know that swingbuster does as well. While we aren't in the same "camp" I've always appreciated his knowledge. As I've stated before, I consider Blue Dog a friend. Ok so I'll stay out of these discussion for now.
SandmanSandman500+ posts
Yes, and I politely corrected your miscue on Manny's hips opening prior to footplant. Then you got defensive. Thanks for the update. Razz

You've made a lot of good points over the years and I usually enjoy reading you. But if you're going to condescend the way you do, back it up, or you're hard to take serious.

P.S.
This is a public forum, so there are no "MY threads". Wink
Last edited by Sandman
BlueDogBlueDog1,000+ posts
Sandman, you just don't get it......

You say you have grown tired of the gurus?????...You can figure out for yourself what the video shows????......Yet, you don't understand what differing degrees of rotating into footplant implies.......Manny rotates into footplant much less convincingly, and much later than many other MLB hitters.....I don't think you have a clue as to what this suggests....Or, what the implication is....

Some hitters finish high, and some finish low.....Again, I don't believe you have a clue as to why or if it even matters.....

You draw your lines and cicles and such on the pics like a detective as you try to figure out the effects of what they are doing.....You have always concentrated on effects.....And, you have always managed to overlook the causes......You do this without any help from the gurus......Blame them all you want as you continue to struggle with understanding this stuff.....
BlueDogBlueDog1,000+ posts
quote:
How can any conclusions be drawn as to when the hips open in relation to other parts of the swing/body when the clips only show the upper half of their bodies???


This statement is very revealing as to the fact that you just don't get it, Sandman......This is why you admittedly struggle with teaching......I gave you two clips which you should study very intently....Instead, you display your lack of understanding while complaining about how you are tired of gurus, whatever that means.....Perhaps you are tired of others understanding what you don't??????
ChameleonChameleon100+ posts
How do you know the muscles that rotate the hips aren't trying to do so but there is no movement because the upper body is acting to hold everything back until the appropriate time?

Which means the hips may start rotating, at least the muscles that do the job, may activate long before you can see it.

The hips get a running start.
Last edited by Chameleon
SandmanSandman500+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by BlueDog:
Sandman, you just don't get it......

Yet, you don't understand what differing degrees of rotating into footplant implies.


That's funny. I don't recall offering any input that would lead you to believe that I do/don't undersand this??? I simply provided 2 clips that showed Manny rotating more into foot plant than the one you provided. From there, the discussion could've/should've turned into more about "But Manny does this less... why?". Instead, you got your panties all bunched up and went on the defensive.

I sincerely believe that I am not alone in "struggling to teach this stuff" because I am willing to prove what I teach is working or not... ON VIDEO. IOW, I can teach all I want - and my hitters' results DO improve, and we DO win titles, etc.. But then I look at video of their swings and see the same common youth flaws they've always had.

You may be more comfortable that you have this stuff figured out and can teach w/ better results. Fine. Post some before/after video and I'll believe you're any better than me or the thousands of other "struggling" Dads trying to help kids.

Yes, I draw my lines and circles "like a detective", sometimes offering NO input w/ it, just trying to keep the discussion "honest"/accurate, so that we might all benefit from it. So when you get caught by the "detective", why not just OWN UP and move on?! Razz

Also, the reason I draw is because I believe we need to know where we're heading. Yes, the focus is on "effect" because we can't see HOW they got to those positions. But we CAN see the positions and, IMO, use them as "goals" or "barometers". IOW, at some point, when I compare my hitters to pros, I want them to eventually/someday swing like them (if at all possible). How would I know that they are though? Just because they hit a HR? No, I submit that my line/circle drawing is in the same category as anyone who posts a side-by-side of a kid w/ a pro - comparison.

Now, HOW we go about making that happen is surely the bigger challenge, hence the proliferation of so many wildly-varying internet opinions on HOW to swing. IMO, certain things are tangible/measurable: balance (head centered over middle of feet from side, shoulders over toes from front/pitcher), timing of upper body load (rear elbow up at stride toe touch instead of tucked at side already), etc.. And these are the means by which we can objectively measure our hitters progress - unless of course we just watch the line drives to the back of the cage and subjectively self-proclaim our methods successful? Wink The only reason I admit that I "struggle" to teach youth hitters is because I put my teachings to the [video] test. How do YOU monitor your hitters' progress???

As to you "giving me 2 clips that I should study intently"... you changed gears! The discussion was about the hips and whether Manny's opened into foot plant. I showed that they did. Then you posted 2 clips in which the hitter's hips aren't even visible?! Yeah, maybe they have relevance and should be discussed. But that was just a smoke-n-mirrors job on your part. If those were the ones that should be studied, why didn't you just post THEM in the first place?

No, BD, I think YOU just don't get it. I posted quotes from you from the past few years, back when you were just as adamantly proclaiming that you knew it all and we were all stupid. Now you're adamantly on another bandwagon. And yes, modifying our way of thinking IS good. But w/ you doing a complete 180 on this "hips open into foot plant" thing, WHY on earth should we listen to you (and believe that we're all dumb) when you offer no PROOF of your teachings???

I'm out of "your" thread now. Let the lurkers judge for themselves. I have a kid to teach and 2 teams, as well. There are plenty of other sites where amicable discussions can usually be had. You can stay here and continue talking down to everyone in "your" thread. Roll Eyes
Last edited by Sandman
BlueDogBlueDog1,000+ posts
quote:
The discussion was about the hips and whether Manny's opened into foot plant.


Sandman, wrong..... More proof that you don't get it...

It was about the overemphasis on the hips and the fact that Manny rotates into footplant much later and with much less emphasis than some other MLB hitters....

You don't like the two clips I posted because you don't understand what is happening in them....There is "cause" in those clips.....You only look for "effects".....
Last edited by BlueDog
SandmanSandman500+ posts
There you go again, drawing conclusions w/o basis and pontificating.

What exactly did I say that suggests that I don't understand those 2 clips?

You're a waste of time.

Get over yourself.

I notice that you simply ignored everything else - esp. the part where I ask how YOU monitor your hitters?

PUT UP, or STFU already!!! These discussions about who thinks they know more about what's going on inside a pro hitter's body are purely a matter of opinion. That's why there are so many interpretations - "arm action is king", "move the middle", etc.. Your opinion is irrelevant if you can't back it up.

SHOW US the hitters you've taught, focusing on your [current, seeing you've "evolved"] particular areas of emphasis. Don't explain it in riddles either. Provide a step-by-step blueprint for how YOU make hitters better. Then SHOW US the results on video.

Otherwise you're just an arrogant internet jerk who thinks he knows it all.
SandmanSandman500+ posts
You're right, PG... results on the field are what count. And there are a host of varying swing mechanics that manage to get it done.

But when you're training in a cage or practice, if a player is pounding the ball, do you always just leave him alone? Or could it be that the BP pitching is unrealistically easy and that's why he's succeeding in that environment? IOW, is it still valid to periodically check video to see if the player's mechanics are improving so that he can continue to succeed as the pitching gets tougher?
T thepainguy1,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Sandman:
But when you're training in a cage or practice, if a player is pounding the ball, do you always just leave him alone? Or could it be that the BP pitching is unrealistically easy and that's why he's succeeding in that environment? IOW, is it still valid to periodically check video to see if the player's mechanics are improving so that he can continue to succeed as the pitching gets tougher?


Great point.

A swing that works at one level may not work at the next level.

It's no simple task to re-build a guy's swing, so I think they should be taught the right way the first time. Also, I have seen 7Us with great rotational swings, so I don't buy the argument that you have to baby step your way into a rotational swing (e.g. squish the bug for a few years in order to get hip rotation down).
SandmanSandman500+ posts
Why? I don't have some undying need to prove that I'm the smartest internet hitting guru-wanna-be. I start threads when I have questions - usually about how to help my son improve. I also participate in other people's threads when I think I can help or help clarify something (yes, often by "drawing my lines and circles" Roll Eyes). I often do that just to try to add a picture to someone's words (afterall, "a picture is worth a 1,000 words", right? Wink).

You and I have totally different agendas pal. I'll start a thread when I have something to say/ask; not just to puff my chest.

BTW, I notice you still haven't addressed my challenge to you to post video of your hitters doing what you teach? Oversight? Or convenient maneuver?
Last edited by Sandman
SandmanSandman500+ posts
No... you DON'T "got it", evidently. Roll Eyes

I don't post "Here's my entire theory on [my current, as of today, but ever-evolving] swing mechanics" because I'm not trying to establish myself as an internet swing guru. Nor do I post rude little jabs/riddles telling people how clueless they are. I post when I have specific questions or think I might be able to offer useful input to someone else's questions.

NOW do you "get it"? Big Grin

(But please keep dodging my challenge to backup your constant condescending. I'm sure none of the other readers can see through that tactic?! )
Last edited by Sandman
SandmanSandman500+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by BlueDog:
Sandman, why don't you start some threads and show us your understanding of the swing?......Can you do more than post trivial nonsense???.....

Come on Sandman, step up to the plate and start some threads for us to learn from you!!!!...
I certainly don't claim to know it all. NTL, I wrote this article a couple weeks ago, in prep for a team practice, in which we went over this (live/demo), then I gave each player a copy of this to take home.

Loading Sequence - Hips Before Shoulders

Perhaps 12YOs are too young to digest this type of material? That's why we explained it to them, showed them video, and demonstrated the movements. Will they get it right away? Probably not. But changing swings isn't an overnight process. Hopefully, some of their parents read the article too and can help them practice at home.

Of course, BullDog will probably just chastise my "lines and circles" again as "useless focus on effects". But I don't really care if he approves. Smile Maybe the info can help some others who might be reading this thread? But don't worry, if it doesn't help, or you don't agree with it... I won't call you "clueless". Razz
Last edited by Sandman
deemaxdeemax500+ posts
Sandman,
Good article. Is it possible that this thread will get back to discussing hitting?

Bluedog
quote:
Much more than upper half in those clips.....And, those clips make my point, which is, the hips don't matter......It ain't about the hips....!!!!!!


Ted Williams
quote:
The way you bring your hips into the swing is directly proportionate to the power you generate


Saying the "the hips dont matter" is a "theory" that might require a little more research.
Last edited by deemax
P PGStaff10,000+ posts
My grandpa once told me… The quicker you can turn the belly button the harder you hit the ball.

Using anyone’s explanation of hitting, over the years, I have yet to hear anyone claim this advice is outdated.

The hips and the rest of the swing work closely together. It’s not open up your hips wait a second and then start your swing. It’s not keep the hips closed and swing. The body works together to create the most possible leverage, most bat speed and accuracy. Opening the hips too early or too slowly destroys all of that.

Watching whatever anyone would claim is a great swing… It is very easy to see the timing and quickness involving the hips becoming an advantage to the things mentioned above.

The only thing that would ever change my mind would be to hear a great hitter tell me the hips are not very important. I’d probably need several great hitters to claim that before changing my opinion.

Quick hips actually allow a hitter to wait longer. Slow hips must start too soon. I have found that quick hips and quick hands seem to go together. (Throwing or hitting) I can’t remember ever seeing a player with slow hips and fast hands. I know from past posts that you don’t believe in the strength or speed of the hands being important either. No matter what terminology is used, be it hands or hips or body… Strength, quickness, timing and accuracy will always be important attributes in baseball and in hitting. It’s the actual natural skill part of hitting.

Perhaps I’ve misunderstood what this topic is about, but that is my opinion.
BlueDogBlueDog1,000+ posts
quote:
So if we take the focus off the hips in these clips, are you now referring to the upper body load/unload patterns?


Wording is important in talking about this.... Smile

I am talking about the center.....

Tom Guerry, Swingbuster and Swingbuilder have said many times that the lower body is slave to the upper body....There is alot of truth to this, IMO.....
Last edited by BlueDog
popspops100+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by BlueDog:
quote:
bluedog
quote:
Do notice, he said the belly button and not the hips....

Deemax
quote:
Do you have experience turning one without the other?



____________________________________________________

Well, I saw this belly dancer once........She could do it......



Why don't you answer the man's question?
P PGStaff10,000+ posts
BD,

Sorry, but I'm not exactly sure what you mean. Could we see some examples?

There can be many reasons why one hitter would open his hips earlier than another. Or even why the same hitter would open his hips earlier on one pitch than another.

Some of those reasons would include...

Being fooled by the pitch
The location of the pitch
Having slower hips
The type of hitter each is
The type of stride

Rotating into footplant doesn't really drive me crazy. I just prefer not rotating into footplant. What do the no stride guys do?
Win M AllWin M AllMember
quote:
Originally posted by BlueDog:
quote:
I'm running out of questions.


You can always use this one again...

"Bluedog
going back to the McGuire/Vladi clips.....they each show a different way of "using" the hips in their swing."

It made no sense the first time, perhaps it will get better with age.....


Not quite sure why I deserved that. Just trying to understand what it is you're seeing.

Also, I didn't say I was out of questions, I said I almost was. I'll try another one.

Would you be referring to the "stretch/unstretch" of the muscles in the middle/center?

By the way, if any of us ever guess it right, will you tell us?
SandmanSandman500+ posts
zzzzzzzzzzzz.... BullDog really fancies himself the teacher around here and thinks he does us all a great service by forcing us to try to answer his questions (as if only HIS questions are the "right" ones to be considering?). Roll Eyes

I have an idea... why doesn't BullDog post a clip and explain what he sees in it, how he thinks it happens, and most importantly, how he thinks we should teach hitters to do it? And post some clips of HIS hitters having success doing his way?

Naah... much easier and safer to sit back and take jabs at everyone else.
P PGStaff10,000+ posts
BlueDog,

I have noticed that! The same thing held true for Richard... is Richard "chameleon"? I really got to liking Richard. Especially after he put that videa clip of himself up.

While I and others might not agree with everything you say... I do appreciate the way you guys get things going. Your passion for this subject is very impressive. I try to read everything you post. It leads to some good discussion and some good laughs at times.

Too bad, Richard kept getting kicked off the site. He was very smart, very irritating and a riot!
G GFK10+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by PGStaff:
... Rotating into footplant doesn't really drive me crazy. I just prefer not rotating into footplant. What do the no stride guys do?


As far as no-striders, I like David Wright's swing. (I consider him a no-strider.) Take a look at how he drops the front heel with rotation. This is just a sample of one. I would need to review my clips to see if any other no-striders are doing it.
itsinthegameitsinthegame5,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by PGStaff:
BlueDog,

I have noticed that! The same thing held true for Richard... is Richard "chameleon"? I really got to liking Richard. Especially after he put that videa clip of himself up.

While I and others might not agree with everything you say... I do appreciate the way you guys get things going. Your passion for this subject is very impressive. I try to read everything you post. It leads to some good discussion and some good laughs at times.

Too bad, Richard kept getting kicked off the site. He was very smart, very irritating and a riot!


PG,

Agree with you on the RShard thing. I didnt get along with him at all the first year or so. In fact - I got along with him terribly LOL.

But when he posted that video clip of himself up there - I changed my opinion alot. Took alot of guts to show that middle aged pitching form. LOL

Looked pretty good for an old man too.

He was a spunky cat IMO.

Last edited by itsinthegame
T theEH1,000+ posts
Try putting the bat behind your back.
Hook your elbow's over the knob and barrel.
Make sure the bat barrel sticks out as far as possible.
Now try to hit the ball off a High TEE or Soft Toss.
When you make solid contact, I mean putting a Drive on the Ball.
Then your Belly Button, Hips, Core, Legs, Shoulder's and everyother part of your body is Turning with Power to the Ball??
EH
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