Hit by pitch

If the hitter’s head was in the strike zone a good umpire will call it a strike rather than a HBP. Umpire skills may vary.

hmm.. 7-3-4....  "A batter shall not ... Permit a pitched ball to touch the batter's person"... Penalty is "The batter remains at bat (pitch is a ball or strike) unless pitch was a third strike or ball four".   If the ball didn't enter the strike zone yet, hard to call it a strike on an assumption; however, just like judging whether the batter permitted the ball to hit him, there's some judgement (and experience) involved.  In any case, I agree with RJM's analysis and will add to it this observation if it's close how would the batter know - just like when he leaves the batter's box.  If it's width worthy and you don't mind the ensuing conversation with the offense HC where you can remind him that he cannot argue balls and strikes, then one way to stop ducking into curves is call it a strike especially because you probably have a pretty good idea that any coach will teach a batter to turn and let the ball hit him on the backside rather than the noggin'. Depending on whether it's happening a lot, you could have a sportsmanship discussion that may anger the HC more...

Thanks.  We are just finishing up scrimmage pre-season, so probably would be appropriate to have a simple chat with the ump and opposing coach after the game on the play.  Not really necessary but would be good to get their perspectives too.  

@RJM posted:

If the hitter’s head was in the strike zone a good umpire will call it a strike rather than a HBP. Umpire skills may vary.

Even in mlb often there is a HBP called when a batter is hit in the strike zone.

As long the pitch is not down the pipe there is a good chance it is called a hbp even if it is clipping the zone.

https://twitter.com/CodifyBase...Nydu0hardDw&s=19

@TexasLefty posted:

Thanks.  We are just finishing up scrimmage pre-season, so probably would be appropriate to have a simple chat with the ump and opposing coach after the game on the play.  Not really necessary but would be good to get their perspectives too.  

Would be "appropriate" for WHO to have a chat?  Your son?  Your son's coach?  You the parent?

@TexasLefty posted:

Thanks.  We are just finishing up scrimmage pre-season, so probably would be appropriate to have a simple chat with the ump and opposing coach after the game on the play.  Not really necessary but would be good to get their perspectives too.  

It would not be appropriate lol.  The ump will definitely not appreciate it, even if you're only asking for clarification.....and what does the opposing coach have to do with any call an ump makes.  Your son could ask his coach for an opinion but that's as far as it should go.

It’s a sub varsity scrimmage.  I’ll be sure to clarify everything.  My son would ask and he should ask about anything he wanted to learn from or gain a better understanding of.  If the coach wanted to that’s his business.  I’m asking questions here where I think it’s good to get helpful information.  What’s the big deal?  Is there some unwritten rule that a player can’t ask a question of certain people after a game?  Why would anyone be threatened by a kid wanting to gain information, whether it was a coach, opposing coach, or ump?  

May want to hone up on baseball's unwritten rules ... Best not to have a long memory when it comes to P and U relationship. If you don't the umpire won't and if the other coach knows it bothers your son, that will get around.

Your son should just talk with his coach and let it go. As in what did he think and how best to handle going forward. He may have his own reason for not reacting or will at least become more aware of what the other team is doing and handle it from there. Could also see what his C thought as one of their "jobs" is to have a good *game rapport* with the umpire (after all that is his protection).  I've witnessed an unwritten rule being handled and all 3 involved (B, P, C) acting appropriately. Right after I go clean the plate and look at the catcher and ask - are we all done.  I expect a "yes, sir" and we move on. So far, so good.

I understand your logic but that is not the real world, maybe it should be but it is not.  Umpires don't like to do scrimmages to start with and it could come off as questioning his call.  At sub varsity level and even at varsity level, a good curve or slider that hits a player in the head, even over the plate, will normally go as a hbp.  The logic is the umpire does not want to be wrong on where the player was and bring back a batter who just got hit in the head.  It is frustrating as a pitcher, pitcher's coach, and pitcher's parent but as an umpire who is making a split second call on a hbp to the head, you tend to and are told to lean toward awarding the base.  It is frustrating, I know.  My oldest son had a wipeout slider and guys would literally turn their back and it would hit them over the plate and the umpire would call it hbp.  Nothing you can do about it.  Part of the game.  Umpires in HS are not MLB umpires or they would be MLB umpires.

I should have said the question or asking by my son would be done in a respectful manner post game and not a protest during the inning.   I appreciate the thoughtful responses.  

As an ump, I think the how and when the question is asked leads to the determination if it is appropriate or confontational.   Immediately after the call - that would not be appreciated.  After the 1/2 inning?  "Excuse me blue, can I ask a question about that HBP?"  That IMO is respectful and appropriate.  If the response wasn't clear, "Im sorry I don't understand the rule, can we talk after the game?"  Some of my brethren will be rude and reply "now is not the time" or "its my judgement - move on" at which point the player should drop the conversation.  If the officials want respect from the players they need to give respect in return.  There is nothing wrong with the question and a brief discussion.  But the player needs to be prepared for a reply they may not like and accept that it is a judgment call, one that may/may not be one they agree with.

Thinking about the OP, and it is a had to be there type of play ... but generally speaking.  99% of batters are at the very back of the box.  Their head is already behind the strike zone.  The zone being a 3 dimensional shape that extends over the plate from the knees to abut mid torso means its 2 - 2.5 feet high (depending on height of batter)  17" wide.   It is highly unlikely that the batter ducked so much that the ball passed thru the zone and still hit him in the head.  If a curve is dropping 12-16 inches and still be in the zone, that break would have to start long before it reached the batter.  Just my opinion without seeing the play.

Several years back, there were several articles on the rash of HBP in college ball.  The umps started making a lot more of the failure to avoid calls to stop the drama.  These calls started being made a lot more in HS.

Older son would lead the team in HBP. Crowded the plate and would slightly turn, not move or flinch for a ball from his thigh up to his shoulders. Rarely called in HS.  Perfect Game ups called him back on multiple occasions.  The PG umps were the much better crews that also called college games.

A good catcher should have pretty good rapport with the home plate ump.  Ask the catcher. My younger son is chatting all game with the ump. He can probably bring it up with no issues or he'll know that the specific umpire would take offense.

@JETSR71 posted:

Several years back, there were several articles on the rash of HBP in college ball.  The umps started making a lot more of the failure to avoid calls to stop the drama.  These calls started being made a lot more in HS.

Older son would lead the team in HBP. Crowded the plate and would slightly turn, not move or flinch for a ball from his thigh up to his shoulders. Rarely called in HS.  Perfect Game ups called him back on multiple occasions.  The PG umps were the much better crews that also called college games.

A good catcher should have pretty good rapport with the home plate ump.  Ask the catcher. My younger son is chatting all game with the ump. He can probably bring it up with no issues or he'll know that the specific umpire would take offense.

Huge part of a catchers job is to be social and friendly with the home plate umpire.  I would rather pitch to a catcher who worked the umpires by being social and nice than one who tried to steal strikes.  As JETSR71 says, the catcher is the ambassador and is your best shot at bringing things like hanging out over the plate or not getting out of the way of a pitch to their attention.

I had a #9 batter who learned to get way inside and lean real early on every inside pitch and had like 28 HBP's that season.  He was crazy and didn't care so you could get mad and throw at him and it didn't bother him.  Helped no one in our conference except 2 kids threw over 90