Auz can speak for himself...........but I understood his post to mean you shouldn't drop the back shoulder. Surely no one here is recommending that, are they?
IMO, dropping the back shoulder is one of those "catch-all" phrases that don't really get to the root of a specific hitting flaw. Kind of like "I looked up!" on a bad golf shot, as a comparison. Sounds good, means little.
Every good hitter will almost always make contact with the rear shoulder lower than the front shoulder and the hands above the ball. So, if the hitter assumes an attacking posture at front heel plant with the front shoulder down and in, the back shoulder is slightly above the front shoulder - and if then at contact the back shoulder is below the front shoulder - I had to somehow "drop", did it not?
(Once again, IMO) What most people should be focusing on is the position of the FRONT shoulder from stance to toe touch or earlier in the swing than the "launch". It should stay down and move in slightly. Some may say that they are both the same, if the front shoulder isn't down, then that's dropping the back shoulder. OK, I can see that, but most people when they see a hitter pop up will say, "Ah, he dropped his back shoulder!", assuming everything was fine until he rotated to swing then that pesky back shoulder dropped.
Originally Posted by Ryno23:
Every good hitter will almost always make contact with the rear shoulder lower than the front shoulder and the hands above the ball. So, if the hitter assumes an attacking posture at front heel plant with the front shoulder down and in, the back shoulder is slightly above the front shoulder - and if then at contact the back shoulder is below the front shoulder - I had to somehow "drop", did it not?
(Once again, IMO) What most people should be focusing on is the position of the FRONT shoulder from stance to toe touch or earlier in the swing than the "launch". It should stay down and move in slightly. Some may say that they are both the same, if the front shoulder isn't down, then that's dropping the back shoulder. OK, I can see that, but most people when they see a hitter pop up will say, "Ah, he dropped his back shoulder!", assuming everything was fine until he rotated to swing then that pesky back shoulder dropped.
When most people, at least around the area where I live, talk about dropping the back shoulder it refers to the load not the point of contact.
It is pretty much impossible not to drop the back shoulder some. If the back shoulder doesn't drop, the hands have to roll over.
We are seeing some progress with my son. Removed as many moving parts as we could from the swing, shortened his load and had him start wider so that his stride is "shorter". He still has a few tweaks to make, but is making much more consistent contact. In doing that he did seem to sacrifice some power, so we will have to see over a longer period how that works out.
Thanks again for all the suggestions, some of these were really helpful in pointing out what we need to look for. I will post video soon, after I recover my failed hard drive.
I think all hitting conversations and statements need to be put in context. Dropping the back should is an example. Yes it happens, but when? Too early and you get to far under the ball. At the right time, you crush the ball.
Originally Posted by Golfman25:
I think all hitting conversations and statements need to be put in context. Dropping the back should is an example. Yes it happens, but when? Too early and you get to far under the ball. At the right time, you crush the ball.
You are a wise man Golfman25.
I think there's a difference between dipping the back shoulder and rotating the shoulders around a spine that's leaning forward. Rotation around the spine will result in the back shoulder that is lower than the front shoulder during the swing, and a proper swing plane. Dipping the back shoulder by sliding the hips forward will create problems.
I don't like people talking about shoulder rotation, because it's often believed to be a power source.
Originally Posted by Low Finish:
I don't like people talking about shoulder rotation, because it's often believed to be a power source.
I agree that 'shoulder rotation' per se (level twisting) is not a good power source.
But, the backwards move of the bat head is initiated by, and driven by, two giant levers - back elbow drop and shoulder/torso drop. Right?
Originally Posted by SultanofSwat:
Originally Posted by Low Finish:
I don't like people talking about shoulder rotation, because it's often believed to be a power source.
I agree that 'shoulder rotation' per se (level twisting) is not a good power source.
But, the backwards move of the bat head is initiated by, and driven by, two giant levers - back elbow drop and shoulder/torso drop. Right?
Well, yes and no. The back elbow "drop" is the result of lateral tilt as well as hand/forearm action. The torso tilt is the result of the back leg working under the body.
i think we as baseball people tend to make hitting way more complicated than it needs to be. in my opinion it is impossible to swing a bat or golf club or anything else without the back elbow dropping, i think we can all agree on that. in my opinion and the work i have done and the film i have studied you can and should take your hands str8 to the ball, the reason is because you have already completed your stride/load - you need to have a slight forward movement to start weight transfer - into what is a stiff front side. if you have a stiff front side you are also going to get the backside dropping, you are still swinging level but the plane is going change as your body rotates...i think anyone who studies hitting will agree on about 90 percent of the body positions, the terminology and teaching method is what leads to the arguements.
i honestly feel like as a coach my job is to keep it simple, film work frame by frame is not used enough, the key is not to have a term but for the hitter to understand and feel what a good swing is and how to get his body in position.
